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Found the quote:
Billy: Tell me the headline.
Quoyle: Horizon Fills With Dark Clouds?
Billy: Imminent Storm Threatens Village.
Quoyle: But what if no storm comes?
Billy: Village Spared From Deadly Storm.
I think Toyota also has better resale values
I don't think this owner is too impressed with the resale value of his Toyota.
This is from Edmunds consumer reviews:
On December 28, 2011, I brought my 2001, Toyota Sequoia in to be serviced for rear brakes and to get the oil changed. My certified mechanic called me at home and strongly suggested that I come in to see what he discovered while my vehicle was up on the lift. So I stopped in to take a look. He showed me extensive rust holes in the middle of the frame welds on both the passenger and driver's side. He also pointed out that the rear differential case has severe rust damage. He strongly urged me to stop driving the vehicle and stated that it is unsafe in its present condition and that he has never seen such extensive frame rust damage on a vehicle this well taken care of. The drive train, outer body, and interior are in mint condition. I also have always made it a point to power wash the salt (calcium chloride) off the under carriage after driving in the Northeast after snow or ice storms, when salt is used on our roads. I contacted my local Toyota dealership and they gave me the phone number to Toyota Headquarters. The end result was, they were sorry to hear that I had a rotted out frame and suggested that I get rid of the vehicle because there is currently no recall for the Sequoias. Although, after going online at the Toyota forum I found out that they're are over 300 consumers with the same type of issue with their Sequoia frames in our state, so I do not stand alone. I am floored that a company like Toyota, that prides itself in being committed to safety does not care and will not take ownership when they knowingly used cheap Japanese steel to build these faulty frames. I currently have three young children and this is my primary vehicle. I cannot afford to throw $8 K away (Kelly Blue Book) on this vehicle. BUYER BEWARE!!
Why did Chrysler cover that faulty transmission? Goodness of their hearts? Goodwill? Or did you pay extra for an extended warranty?
The proof is in the pudding; people vote with their wallets. Look at market share, look at resale values.
You can sell a rusted out SUV "as-is" can't you? Perhaps the buyers won't notice the rust? Do you have to disclose it? Just asking. Sure it would be the ethical thing to do, but is it legally required?
Regarding the dustbusters, I don't remember reading anything about crashworthiness on them. I do, on the replacement vans.
I believe the Olds had the 3.8 right out of the box. Chevy got it later. Not sure about Pontiac.
Ironically, I took my Studebaker to a local cruise-in last night and ate a pizza on the patio of the restaurant. An elderly couple pulled in a '95 or '96 Lumina APV--dark blue over silver. The car wasn't clean (dirty), but even with the sun shining down on it, I couldn't see a mark on it. I can tell you that you would not see a '95 or '96 anything else around here (NE OH) that would be as clean.
Anyone can do the math. The numbers are easily available.
There are way to many variables to make that conclusion. Fleet sales being a huge one. I'm willing to bet if you only use retail sales those numbers change.
Absolutely it can. It happened to me about a month ago on a friends '98 F150. I was helping him launch his 24' boat on a steep ramp. I was driving the truck, backing him down the ramp. All of a sudden, I heard a pop, my foot went all the way to the floor and down the ramp towards the lake we went. After pumping the brakes a few times to no avail (while screaming no brakes), I slammed my foot on the parking/emergency brake and thankfully it stopped us us prior to finding out how well a 15 year old f150 will float.
Man I tell you, it scared the living crap out of me. The whole ordeal only lasted about 5 seconds, but I saw all sorts of scenarios flash before my eyes. After telling people what happened, many replied they wouldn't have thought to use the parking brake and where shocked I kept the whole rig from going in the lake.
Thankfully the parking brake worked well, it actually locked up the rear brakes when I hit it. That's one big advantage of drum brakes, no way would the parking brake on my Expedition stop it from going down a steep ramp with an additional 5klbs on the back.
Anyway, once we recovered, cleaned out our underwear, and pulled the rig up to the parking lot we found a split brake line that went from the master cylinder to the ABS manifold. That's all that caused a 99% loss in brake function. Even on level ground at idle speed (2-3mph) it probably took 20 feet to stop.
So from experience, I can say in a critical situation, when the brakes fail it can be terrifying. Thankfully I didn't completely panic and just ride the brake pedal all the way down the ramp and into the lake.
A car unable to stop can be deadly!
Toyota's market share is as high as ever now so I'll let everyone draw their own conclusion.
American steel, actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Sequoia
Frame assemblies and driveshafts are produced by Dana Corporation
It's built in Princeton, Indiana.
Too bad they didn't use Japanese steel. LOL
Did a quick search and even the revised one didn't fare so well back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7gSxmk1kp0
Windstar was amazing back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWF4kxyICIM
That old people car you saw probably had 20K miles on it :shades:
"It's the Cadillac of minivans", says Travolta, of his Olds Silhouette.
Then Devito gets one just like it.
Probably the high point for those GM vans.
My cousin owned one of them for a while.
Of course, her husband worked at the GM plant in Tarrytown, NY where they were built.
Now they live in OK City and he commutes to the GM plant in Arlington, TX.
Did a quick search and even the revised one didn't fare so well back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7gSxmk1kp0
Exactly what I said. I don't remember the Dustbusters having a poor crash rating, but the subsequent ones did. I had two Ventures, BTW...both stylish, comfortable and practical vehicles with a second-to-none dealer organization IMHO...and built in Georgia.
You mentioned the Windstar. Crashworthiness might have been good, but as of a week ago their transmission issues were still among the most-popular Edmunds forums...and this five years or more since they'd been built.
I remember Ford focused a lot on safety in its Windstar ads.
Perhaps to detract attention away from those transmissions (had not heard that until now)?
Unscientific check, Google Search for:
Ford pickup rust 22,600,000 hits
Chevy pickup rust 2,330,000 hits
Toyota pickup rust 754,000 hits
Seems proportion except Chevy does a lot better than Ford.
Go GM.
Ford pickup frame rust = 3,380,000 hits
Toyota pickup frame rust = 138,000 hits
Chevy pickup frame rust = 1,220,000 hits
Pickups are used as salt trucks here in the East so rust is par for the course, they all do eventually.
No extended warranty of any kind.
When my wife called me that day and told me the transmission was being replaced at no cost, I almost fell over.
In retrospect, it was in the early years of the 4-speed automatics in minivans, and I think our experience wasn't that rare (bad transmission). As far as who/how may got free replacements, I can't say.
I can say, however, that them standing behind that van, as they did, resulted in the sales of 2 more vans over the next 10 years, along with a couple of other vehicles. So, at least in this case, their actions did produce positive results for them.
The last Chrysler product I had was a 2000 Concorde. It gave disappointing service, so we elected to try a new direction in vehicle manufacture...
I think they start with a car platform, yet a van is the vehicle on a shared platform that likely carries the heaviest loads. Payload is usually 1200 lbs or more.
Heavy duty needs, light duty mechanicals. At least for some, YMMV.
Engines got bigger and transmissions gained coolers and such.
I got the towing package on my minivan, which includes an oil cooler. Even if you do not tow, I strongly recommend that if you're ever going to haul a heavy load. Same for a large SUV or crossover.
Honda's tow package includes not one but TWO (!) oil coolers, the other for the power steering. I wonder if the failure rate is lower for people who got that option? I bet it would be.
Windstar issues surprise me a bit because that was a truck platform, wasn't it? Should have been beefier to begin with.
No, the Aerostar was truck based and rwd. The Windstar was based off the Taurus/continental platform (IIRC) and was FWD.
link title
I had pictures at one point of an entire field behind a dealer near me with about 150 of them lined up for replacement...
I'm sure a lot of vehicles aren't as different as we think, parts are shared quite often. Look how many makes ZF supplies transmissions to, for instance.
I had lower control arms replaced on my '82 Tercel under a recall. They would rust away and there'd be no more support for the rear wheels.
LOL, I know someone who had a Windstar under the recall. The frame rust was so bad, Ford bought it from them.
Honestly, I'd still take a Tacoma over a Ranger or S10/Colorado regardless of how quick the frame on the Tacoma rusts.
I'd get a Ram or F150. But yeah, unless you prefer the feel of a smaller truck, a 1/2 ton is the way to go. Similar mileage and far more capacity.
That's true. Even Honda had a bunch of transmissions go bad in 1999-2004 models. The numbers of failed units weren't NEARLY as bad as one would think after reading some of the "problems" forums. Still, out of the norm for Honda.
Honda stepped up to the plate and covered Odysseys with 100,000 miles and more. They don't seem to get much credit for this though.
Having said this...you should have seen some of the trashed Odysseys that came in with problems. Filthy dirty pig pens that looked like rolling restaurants inside. Class 3 hitches and heavy duty roof racks.
Service? Who knows? Some of these cars we never saw in our shop once the warranties ran out. Some looked like the fluid had never been changed!
My point is the fact that a lot of minivans lead a miserable life. They are loaded wown with people, dogs etc. They pull loads they shouldn't be pulling and get more abuse than most cars do.
It was funny reading some of those forums. If a Ford or Chrysler transmission failed after 100,000 miles, it was expected and accepted. not with Honda or Toyota! I guess they should never be expected to break?
Still, the numbers wer much higher than they should have been.
Seems GM is trying to catch up with Toyota quality. Not the other way around,
Agree?
Regards,
OW
It’s the car’s fifth recall since it arrived in showrooms nearly two years ago, raising questions about the sedan’s reliability.
This is a big deal for GM, right?
Regards,
OW
Personally, when I mention recalls here, it's a current, new one.
Question is, did it hurt the Cruze's sales? Just because you undyingly buy Chevy, doesn't mean GM quality is stellar, you know! Since Chevu is ~ 60% of GM sales, we all know where the quality issues have been.
Cruze
YTD July 2011 = 147,620
YTD July 2012 = 128,838
Elantra
YTD July 2011 = 107,482
YTD Jluy 2012 = 116,281
Forte
YTD July 2011 = 50,482
YTD July 2012 = 47,016
Go HyunKia! :P
Regards,
OW
Cruze
YTD July 2011 = 147,620
YTD July 2012 = 128,838
Elantra
YTD July 2011 = 107,482
YTD Jluy 2012 = 116,281
Forte
YTD July 2011 = 50,482
YTD July 2012 = 47,016
Honestly, I don't think recalls are that big of a deal unless they get excessive and/or for serious design flaws.
What happened to the Cruze is more competition is out.
YTD Civic 187,586 32% up vs July '11
YTD Focus 147,877 31% up vs July '11.
I'd say the Focus is kicking but despite the bad press over My Ford Touch and transmission issues.
But as usual if you look at just retail sales, non-fleet, I'd bet the Civic is way ahead with actual retail buyers. I'd guess the Focus and Cruze are 20-30% fleet vs <10% for a Civic.
One-thirtieth.
Apparently, the problem isn't that they can't go, it's that they can't stop.
Only you, among the others on this board, could copy a list of 'best owner satisfaction' or the like, that had two GM's on the list and no Hyunkias, and say "Where's the GM's"?
Again...MSNBC is calling you.
Get with reality.
Regards,
OW
Running the numbers through 30 June 2012, we find that GM's Altman-Z score is 0.66. The company's financial situation has not improved since the end of 2011 and it remains well in the danger zone for facing future bankruptcy, as the company's post-bailout reorganization appears to have been inadequate to really restore the company to good health.
While that doesn't suggest that the company will be filing for bankruptcy in the immediate days ahead, it does confirm that more reorganization and cost reduction efforts lie ahead for the company in the short term.
Is GM Headed Back to Bankruptcy?
Anyone can calculate the score for Toyota or Honda with the tool provided. Let us know how you do vs. GM.
I reiterate GM does not lead in product, profitability, stability or growth. Reorganizations at GM might help but highly doubtful in the long run considering most of the failed business model pre-C-11 still exists.
Regards,
OW
It's a standard practice for any research-related discussion, and it simply allows the reader to examine the entire article, if so desired.
It has nothing to do with laziness or a refusal for doing "research on their own".
Usually, when posters refuse to post links, they are viewed very skeptically, and suspected of hiding facts that disagree with their conclusions. Posting links are for the poster's own "protection", to provide references that support the poster's position.
General Motors Co's (GM: 21.35, +0.24, +1.14%) top executive for Cadillac said the brand should be challenging foreign automakers for the top spot in U.S. luxury auto sales within a couple of years.
In 2011, German carmakers led the lucrative U.S. luxury market after Toyota Motor Corp's Lexus brand had been champion for 11 straight years.
BMW took the top spot last year at about 248,000 in sales, followed closely by Daimler AG's Mercedes-Benz brand. Lexus was third.
Through July this year, Mercedes-Benz held the lead at 159,412 in U.S. sales, followed by BMW at 147,801 and Lexus at 126,367.
Cadillac's U.S. sales this year have fallen behind Volkswagen AG's Audi brand, which through July reported U.S. sales of 76,865.
It basically states facts that are EASILY referenced if the research is necessary. Even the entire article can be had by adding one sentence to a search site.
Agree it is common practice to post the link. Here is the entire article which basically states the dream of Caddy leading the Lux market in the USA in "a couple of years". Hee, Hee!!
GM Says Cadillac Will Soon Be at Top of U.S. Luxury Market
I guess the next bailout will include a massive influx for Caddy alone to fulfill that dream!
Regards,
OW
That's good. No reason not to believe you. Of course, replacing all those bad transmissions (goodwill) should earn them repeat business as it did in your case, but it obviously wasn't sustainable as they ran out of money for replacement parts (as often as they go bad over there) and went bankrupt twice in recent history (and got 2 bailouts amazingly).
For the customers that didn't get their transmission covered, perhaps I didn't yell loud enough. They never covered anything previously, so I probably didnt even bother to ask (went to independent shop for tranny). But either way, those customers were lost forever.
The problem I had with my 2000 Concord, specifically, was the #6 cylinder valve seals, which leaked from the day I drove off the lot.
The "solution" to this problem, which resulted in the engine using a quart of oil every 6-700 miles, was to add a quart of oil when I went to the dealer, and to replace spark plug #6 every 10K miles, until the warranty expired. After that, I was on my on.
After I traded the Concorde, I decided to let Chrysler be "on it's own", too.