GM News, New Models and Market Share

ateixeira

It's a shame that Mazda bailed out of Flat Rock, I don't think they sell much volume aside from the Mazda3. They're an odd ball in that their mid-size sedan is not their volume player.

They're not as vulnerable as Suzuki and Mitsubishi, but still, they need a new game plan. Compared to Honda/Nissan/Toyota they are merely sitting on the side lines, a wall flower.

SkyActiv tech looks promising. Still, you've gotta build in NA.

ateixeira

I'll take that white convertible, don't really care if I look girly in it. :P

ateixeira

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120824/AUTO0102/208240338/1148/rss25

Love how that looks, should keep Malibu designers up at night.

Speaking of the Malibu, here's an odd ad campaign for it, targeting the ladies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t5sZZMcBl4Y

ateixeira

Sonic recall, very minor:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/27/chevy-recalls-over-44-000-sonic-models-over-w- indshield-washer-is/

By rule here's one for someone else, Ducati had 5 issues on this bike (at what point do you just return the whole thing?):

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/24/ducati-issues-five-recalls-for-1199-panigale/-

fintail

Seeing as those bikes here tend to sell to soulless should-be-hanged executive types who'll never get it past third gear, I wonder if any faults would ever be known without the recall.

I see there was a runaway Kia scare over the past several days...waiting for press releases on that one.

ateixeira

Saw a preview of that on NBC news this morning, wasn't sure what kind of car that was.

Found a link:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/48799567#48799567

Kia Sorento. She's only 47 years old, wow, usually they're 80+. LOL

Wow, she hit 120mph.

Why didn't they suggest putting it in Neutral, I dunno. They told her to pull the gas pedal back and hit the brakes at the same time.

Use neutral, folks! Can't believe a 9-1-1 operator didn't suggest that.

fintail

I'm willing to wager some kind of driver error. I saw no brake lights in the video.

Neutral, parking brake, turning car off...seems no evidence that anything was attempted.

Notice how the report had to point out multiple times that the driver is a "mom"...sympathy grasp.

bpizzuti

Apparently the problem with the new Malibu isn't a lack of legroom, or a lack of competitive fuel economy, it's a lack of an associated ladies clothing line!

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/08/new-clothing-line-coming-inspired-by-20- 13-chevrolet-malibu-targeted-at-stylish-women-this-is-not-a-joke/

Scray.

uplanderguy

We've had this discussion before, but no matter where the bad parts come from, the responsibility is ultimately the manufacturer's. If my Chevy has a recall, I can't say, 'well, that was a Mexican/Chinese/whatever supplier, that's THEIR fault'. It's GM's fault. They made the call to use that part. Toyota isn't any different in that regard.

andre1969

I think that kind of fashion stuff used to work back in the 1950's and 60's, but today it just seems a bit silly. I remember Buick tried something a few years back on the Regal, called the Joseph Abboud edition. Not sure who he was...Shuffleboard Champion of Shady Pines, three years running perhaps? :P

uplanderguy

In contrast, the '62 Fairlane/Meteor seemed designed more with frugality in mind. That first year, there was only a 2-door sedan, 4-door sedan, and wagons, and only straight-6 or small V-8's. They did add hardtop coupes and convertibles for '63 though, and then for '64 there was the famous Thunderbolt 427 dragracer.

When I was a kid, my Dad bought a two-year old '62 Fairlane sedan..white with red interior; six with stick. I remember as plain as day going with my Dad and older sister to look at it. Dad was looking at a Falcon too and we both said, "Falcon, ewwww!". The Fairlane had (apparently aftermarket) seat belts. It had a manual choke, which in hindsight surprises me as even '62 Studebakers had automatic chokes...even the cheapest ones.

BTW, that was Dad's last Ford! Traded in on a new '67 Chevelle, and he bought six new Chevys over the next 23 years.

ateixeira

If the Pontiac Vibe experiences {insert issue here} I'm sure every one of you would be saying it's a Toyota.

They were forced to use NA suppliers to increase local content. They had to.

ateixeira

C'mon Andre.

I was four. Four years running.

busiris

I don't know about "every one of you", but your point is well taken.

However, I'm going to agree with Uplanderguy on this one... In my eyes, the carmaker is the responsible party when something breaks on a vehicle...

I've had MY fun playing the "responsibility game" already, with the local cable company...

"It's the cable modem, it's the computer, it's the TV, blah, blah, blah... ", never the cable company...

ateixeira

In this case Dana paid up, though.

If you got a new cable modem that worked, would you care who paid for it?

Any how, the OP took a cheap shot at a Japanese name brand so the fact that it was a domestically made frame from a domestic supplier and made in the USA is 100% relevant.

I'm picturing one of those UAW guys who drink on their lunch break saying something like "the Zinc coating doesn't really matter, just leave that off."

robr2

...called the Joseph Abboud edition.

You've never heard of Joseph Abboud?? Successful US based menswear designer who is regularly heard on the Don Imus show. I know him from when I used to have to wear nice clothes to work.

busiris

I'm not suggesting that the appropriate folks not be held accountable.

Believe me, I've been here long enough to get the "drift" of what the regular posters are usually implying.

Only point I'm making is that, ultimately, the "final assembler" of the product is responsible. Nothing more...

We are not in any real disagreement here...

If your HP laptop gets manufactured with a defective Intel CPU, you aren't going to Intel for repair, but HP. Still, you're aware that Intel made the CPU, and is the "culprit" in the failure, so to speak. Intel caused the failure, but it's up to HP to resolve the issue with the laptop purchaser. The end user really cares nothing about how and when HP and Intel work it out between themselves.

busiris

I'm waiting to see the "Jersey Shores" and "Real Housewives" editions show up somewhere.

andre1969

You've never heard of Joseph Abboud?? Successful US based menswear designer who is regularly heard on the Don Imus show.

You'll have to forgive me, my fashion sense isn't that keen. Years ago, I saw this chick wearing some nice jeans and I asked her what brand they were and she said Guess? So I said, okay... Levis? Wrangler? Oshkosh B'Gosh? :shades:

Is this him?

Kinda reminds me of that pesky orthodontist from the Bob Newhart Show.

uplanderguy

The operator did ask her to put the car in Neutral...she said it wouldn't budge.

Kia: "This is an isolated incident".

Wow.

What year is the vehicle, does anybody know?

uplanderguy

In this case Dana paid up, though.

GM sued its steering column supplier and won. Guess what? I still blame GM.

You can't separate the manufacturer from the supplier. The manufacturer chooses the supplier, engineers the part, and does QC.

ateixeira

We are not in any real disagreement here...

True...as insiders we often find out who messed up by following the money trail. Dana paid up, so guess what?

ateixeira

I only saw a preview on TV and then that video that I linked. Is there more info some where?

Looks like a late model Sorento, relatively new.

busiris

"it wouldn't budge"???

That, I find difficult to believe, unless the driver somehow had the transmission selector arm movement impeded by some sort of "wedge".

Now, if that's the claim, I'm wide open... Especially with the crap I see people keep in their car's floorboards and in the center consoles/cup holders.

Wonder where her purse was...

When asked if she hit the brakes, the response was "nothing helps".

Right...

Let me guess... Accelerator pedal jammed by floorboard obstruction (mat), causes lady to panic, high speed chase ensues...

uplanderguy

"it wouldn't budge"???

See 52-second mark on the video.

"Did you try to put it in neutral?"

"It won't move."

If it was floor mats...I'm still stupefied by that. I can put four mats on top of each other and they wouldn't touch a pedal in my Cobalt.

busiris

Yep, and I'm betting it wouldn't move because it was wedged in place by a foreign object, or that in her panic, she was attempting to shift into a lower gear without correctly manipulating the shifter lever.

I'm guessing you're like me, and you keep your car pretty neat and clean. There's no telling what kind of crap was rolling around in this car's floorboard, in the console, etc.

Didn't the video say she was a mother? By the looks of her, I doubt her kids are 18 years old. Empty Coke cans, water bottles, you name it were probably rolling around in the floorboard.

The simplest solution, more often than not, is the correct solution.

It would be very interesting to see some pictures of he interior so we could either rule the above theory out, or leave it in play.

tlong

You can't separate the manufacturer from the supplier. The manufacturer chooses the supplier, engineers the part, and does QC.

Agreed. Talking about blaming suppliers to the customer is just a cop out on a company's part.

imidazol97

> never the cable company...

Lemme guess..., TWC?

circlew

Here are Strategic Vision's 2012 Total Quality Awards:

Small car: Fiat 500
Small multifunction: Volkswagen Golf
Midsize car: Chevrolet Volt
Midsize multifunction: Honda Crosstour
Large car: Dodge Charger
Near-luxury car: Audi A4 sedan
Luxury car: Audi A8 sedan
Specialty coupe: Mini Cooper
Premium coupe: BMW 1 Series, Chevrolet Corvette
Convertible: Volkswagen Eos
Premium convertible/roadster: BMW Z4
Minivan: Honda Odyssey
Entry utility: Volkswagen Tiguan
Midsize crossover utility: Ford Flex
Midsize traditional utility: Jeep Grand Cherokee
Large utility: Nissan Armada
Near-luxury utility: Land Rover Range Rover Evoque five-door
Luxury utility: BMW X6
Standard pickup: Honda Ridgeline
Full-size pickup: Ford F-150

"GM - The NEW Second-Rate Standard of the World"

Keep trying, though!

Regards,
OW
Heavy-duty pickup: Ford F-250/350

uplanderguy

I see two GM's on the list, although you imply there are none.

Where's Hyundai and Kia on that list?

Kia could be on the list as "Best Runaway Vehicle Caught on Video".

What is their criteria, anyway? I see some cars and trucks on that list that are not known for reliability.

scwmcan

Yes what are the criteria, any list that includes cars that have been largely panned for many reasons ( the Honda cross tour has not exactly set the world on fire , and even the ridge line is questionable as a "standard " pick-up, I know the people who own ridge lines tend to like them, but it is one of the oldest on the market, and least usable as a pick-up ). Also as mentioned there are two GMs on the list, the Volt and the Corvette, so although maybe you were asking about mid size sedans, or SUVs they are at least on the list.
That said they should be near or at the top for pick-ups and SUV's of course they are due for replacement, but still not an excuse if old designs like the ridge line can be on this list. Again need to know the criteria for selection, will have to go take a look I guess.

ateixeira

Now Autoblog and CBS have updates on it:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/08/27/police-cams-capture-womans-119-mph-stuck-acce- - lerator-run-w-vid/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57500082/stuck-accelerator-takes-woman-on- - -ride-over-110-mph/

Supposedly she tried to get it in to neutral, though at 119mph and with who knows what rolling around the floor board, she wasn't able to.

It's a 2011 Sorento, BTW, so nearly new.

Here's an image of the dash:



URL if you can't seen the embedded image:

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/26065937/37-2011-Kia-Sorento-dash-view.jpg

It's a gated shifter. Tap it up and it would go to Neutral, though perhaps in her panic she moved it left instead, and the path was no longer direct.

Plenty of space in the floor well, it actually looks like one of the better designs in this regard:



URL:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WeatherTech-Floor-Mat-FloorLiner-Kia-Sorento-2011-2013-B- - lack-/280941789351

Edit: note the 2 anchors in the mats to keep the carpets from inching forward.

ateixeira

Just read the part in the CBS story about throwing the keys out the window. Now *THAT* is funny!

scwmcan

I checked their website, their ratings include a "Desire" quotient that totally orients the ratings away from reliabity, it icludes percieved quality, and emotional info such as how much you love the car, so it is not a straight quality award at all, and probably is why the ratings are so differnt from normal quality ratings. For example the small number of people who are still buying Ridgelines must really love the truck, not that the quality is bad at all, but it is an older design and its practicallity is questionable, but if the owners love the truck and would buy one again and other perceived areas are hign then its rating is at the top.

By the way I am not saying that this is a bad way to rate the cars, I do however think it is misleading to call it a Total Quality Award, I would think a Total Ownership Experience Award, or Total Satisfaction Award would be more correct, saying it is a quality award implys things that just aren't true of this award.

BTW all the car manufactures are listed as clients as are the new and used car buyers, I didn't know we had paid anyone to represent us (or is this some fee that dealerships are paying, or just absolute BS?)

imidazol97

I don't understand that she couldn't turn the engine off with the magical keyless start button. Weren't those keyless systems all designed with a method for turning off the ignition? If the ignition refused to turn off, then there's a major electronics problem with this car brand also. If it can't be shifted into neutral..., same thing.

There was lots of discussion after (the other car company) had lots of trouble with runaways.

Do we need to have NASA check out this car?

Someone posting a comment on one of the links in earlier post here suggested she had hit a deer earlier and that damaged the car. Any straw in a storm?

ateixeira

With keyless start there isn't a single standard. Some you hold (Kia works this way I believe) but others you have to press the button 3 times within a certain amount of time.

Given the command to pull the gas pedal back while pushing the brake down worked, it's fairly obvious that this was a case of mechanical blockage, i.e. the pedal was jammed on something.

If the deer strike caused damage to the footwell, that could be the culprit. The car didn't get a scratch so investigators should be able to determine if it was compromised in any way.

andres3

Ahhh, the old runaway acceleration vehicle story.

The truth is that a runaway vehicle has very little to do with the vehicle itself and everything to do with the driver. Any vehicle can be made to have runaway acceleration (just need a driver to confuse the brake and gas pedals).

I've yet to see someone prove that any vehicle even in WOT can overpower its own brakes. Simply hit the brakes, and you will stop. You could park it against a wall or barrier so that it can't move forward after you let go of the brake, but really, shifting into neutral or turning off the vehicle is an easy solution.

A stuck accelerator should be no more dangerous than a bug splattering on the windshield.

I don't by the "it won't budge" statement by the woman. If it's a matter of life and death, that lever will either budge into neutral or I'll break it off trying.

uplanderguy

Do you honestly believe that woman drove 59 miles without knowing the difference between the gas and brake pedals? She was 47, not 87.

busiris

My sentiments exactly.

ateixeira

59 miles at 120mph+, though, so it was only about 5 minutes.

You're right, though, that's PLENTY of time to try different things. Honestly I think she was so focused on driving. The article mentions she went in to the median and back out several times, avoiding traffic the whole time.

busiris

No, I don't believe she did that, although it is well documented that it happens quite often.

As for the shifter mechanism, for those inclined to say it somehow froze in position, please explain exactly how that could happen. No theories, but be specific on exactly what mechanics could be engaged that would allow that circumstance to occur, as well as how it would release itself once the car was stopped...

From what I saw in the videos, the lady seemed credible, in that I don't have the feeling she was hiding anything.

I think she just panicked. Pure and simple...

Events like this do bring up an excellent point, though. Manufacturers need to create a uniform method for shutting the engine off in push button start/stop vehicles, and then educate buyers on exactly how it works.

busiris

Focused on driving... And talking on the phone with the 911 operator...

ateixeira

My brother just bought a brand new Chevy Spin!

He's in Brazil. The Spin replaces both the Meriva and Zafira mini-minivans. He hasn't even taken delivery yet. It's so new that I was there in July and don't think they were even on the roads yet.

I believe it is based on a stretched Buick Encore platform, aka GM Mokka/Trax, with a tiny 3rd row available.

Here's what it looks like:

http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/cars/chevrolet/chevy-offers-a-spin-for-big-familie- s-1.1332228#.UDzxTnmDnTo

Here's that 3rd row:

http://aqrna.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/New-Chevrolet-Spin-Inteiror-view.jpg-

It's smaller than an Equinox.

ateixeira

Mad driving skillz, yo.

120mph and not a scratch. Escaped convicts don't drive as well. With one hand while talking on the cell, no less.

Girlfriend was focused.

ateixeira

PS Traded in a Toyota Corolla. RAV4 would have been R$108,500 and the Spin starts at R$45,000, though it's a lot smaller.

imidazol97

This puts to rest the theory that talking on the cell phone while driving is dangerous!

Did she happen to do any texting during that high speed run?

uplanderguy

59 miles at 120mph+, though, so it was only about 5 minutes.

I think somebody needs to go back and check their math.

ateixeira

I'm sure she texted her daughter that she'd be late early to pick her up.

Coming in fast.

ateixeira

This is her father parking. He taught her how to drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a03pcpSBv6E

fintail

Knowing the average middle aged female crossover-SUV driver? Yes, I believe that.

The key to the runaway Kia story is panic. She shifted wrong, didn't know how to turn it off, something along those lines. I am not one to defend the heavily subsidized and protected Hyunkia chaebol, but virtually all of these incidents can be traced back to a clueless driver.