Do you honestly believe that woman drove 59 miles without knowing the difference between the gas and brake pedals? She was 47, not 87.
Maybe not, maybe so? More plausible than the "shifter won't move to neutral." Her shifter wasn't broken in half so I know she didn't try hard enough to "budge" it. I'd of liked to have seen it sheared off for that excuse to hold any mustard.
It does sound like a case of unacceptable panic.
Just the other day some old guy drove a BMW off a 3rd story parking lot onto the parking lot at ground level while trying to park in San Diego's Fashion Valley Mall.
I think BMW should make a commercial about it "enough power to break concrete walls and barriers!"
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Sometimes I wonder if these UA incidents are fabricated when someone knows they just got caught speeding, and immediately acts like the vehicle is out of control and has a mind of its own, and calls 911 to say HELP!!! My vehicle is out of control!!!!!!
All just to avoid a speeding ticket :sick:
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I just did a bit of math and found the ratio of complaints to NHTSA for Unintended Acceleration to the total number of that car's sales for the last seven years (2006-2012)
The results for 4 cars..Sante Fe, Camry, Accord, and Malibu.
# of complaints : total sales Sante Fe - 1 : 6,404 Camry - 1 : 2,960 Accord - 1 : 31,360 Malibu - 1 : 60,640
The complaint rate for the Sante Fe is 10x that of the Malibu and the Camry is 20x. There are plenty of reports coming in for Toyota even after their recall, and Hyundai isn't trending very well either
If driver error was responsible for UA cases, then it would follow that older drivers would have a higher report rate. However I checked the complaint rate for a car that probably has one of the highest average age buyer - Ford Crown Vic, and a car that should have a relatively much lower age driver - Toyota Prius.
#complaints : total sales Ford Crown Vic - 1 : 26,450 Toyota Prius - 1 : 3,060
These complaints are made mostlly only after an accident of some kind and most reported multiple instances before the accident where the accelerator pedal stuck or responded abnormally. I am sure these are only a small percentage of actual occurances of UA.
I think it is safe to say that there are definitely instances of driver error where the accelerator is mistaken for the brake, but that does not explain the much higher rate in some makes, even when pedal positions and floor mat placement is taken into account. Luckily this is rare, but apparently real, and in all probabiltiy having something to do the the electronics and computer control.
This happened to a couple in their 60's in Korea in a Hyundai Sonata:
I own one of those Camry's. Personally, I'm not sure it really is UA because I think the real problem is that the accelerator and brake pedal are too close to each other. I don't like their positioning. If your shoes are wet I can see them easily slipping from the brake onto the gas pedal. Therefore, I believe it is driver error instead of something electronic and all of the other theories. Besides, all of the producers use many common vendors including electronics, so if UA was the primary cause I'd expect to see it on many other vehicle makes as well. Problem is that Americans are lawsuit happy and don't like to blame simple mistakes - it's always got to be some big unknown or conspiracy!
Not to argue the point, but let's deal in the facts, unless you want to get into conspiracy theories, which I have no interest in discussing.
To start off, you've simply made some assumptions that may (or may not) be accurate.
Do you KNOW the ages of the drivers involved in UA incidents, or are you guessing, simply based upon the car model? According to a quick Google search I just did on the average Prius owner, he/she is about 50, 10 years older than the average car owner.
I certainly don't have the stats, but I can tell you that on our local news, there's generally a UA incident at least once every 2 weeks, and the cars range from Toyotas to Ford Focus's, and many models in between, and in the overwhelming majority of cases, it's some geriatric driver that drives into a 7/11, laundromat or doctor's office.
accelerator and brake pedal are too close to each other
That could be. Hasn't someone measured the distance between them along with the width of each pedal and compared them to the complaint rate? That is probably the first thing NHTSA should have done. But then again its a government agency, so who knows.
That's all great, but for most people, it's irrelevant. I certainly wouldn't choose not to buy a Toyota due to sudden acceleration issues, and I'm sure that's true for most people. Now I wouldn't buy a Toyota for other reasons, but SA is not one of them.
I'm not sure it really is UA because I think the real problem is that the accelerator and brake pedal are too close to each other. I don't like their positioning.
Again, this is not all that relevant. Similarly we could say that the reason there are so many rollover fatalities in all makes of SUVs is the design that puts the CG up high. And there are WAY more deaths from rollovers than SUA. So by that logic we should all quit buying SUVs.
I found some pictures of pedal placement of Toyota Camry & Tundra and Chevy Malibu and Silverado. Tundra's do look close together but the others look about the same:
Not saying we shouldn't buy either. Just pointing out why I think the Camry appears to stand out in these UA stories. I don't think it's electronic because of common vendor bases not yielding the same problem with other makes. Maybe Toyota designs unique electronics, but I kind of doubt it. More likely most of that is subcontracted out (it usually is on airliners too). What I am saying is that you need to be a little careful (especially if you've got large feet!) in a Camry and I think the media and lawyers have blown this UA thing up which can be unfortunate if it is drawing attention away from other culprits. You can't make near as much money if you sue because your large feet slipped versus some "Buck Rogers" potential electronic gremlins. Honestly, if electronics were easily subject to some of these theories we'd see airplanes dropping out of the skies!
Now for your SUV, just make sure you know how to handle a sudden blowout and pay a bit more for good quality tires. I don't have any qualms driving either vehicle, but do pay a bit more attention to possible unusual ergonomics or handling issues when I drive one of them.
I think what your seeing is the effect of scam artists like the guy in San Diego having a run away Prius episode for fame and fortune.
The "news" gets out there, and people that don't like to accept personal responsibility think "maybe I can get out of blame for this accident by claiming UA."
I can't say I entirely blame them as insurance companies are vicious leeches on society; and I can see why people would want to put one over on them. It wasn't me, it was the car, don't mark that accident as at-fault and raise my rates!
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
I think Audi was blamed for putting the accelerator too close to the brake pedal in the 80's, among other things by 60 Minutes (in their weakest story ever).
I believe the pedals being closer together helps a driver drive in more sporting fashion. Takes less time to move your foot from the brake to the gas and vice versa.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Sims Nissan in Warren, OH was threatened with losing their franchise since they are considered 'underperforming'. They've fought back that their market penetration has been hurt by being nearby GM's Lordstown plant, where apparently locals tend to buy GM.
I found this to be refreshing reading.
It was from a clip from Automotive News that a friend sent me.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Heck, if the livelihood of my friends, family, and fellow citizens depended on me buying a locally-produced product, I'd buy it! I'll take a Tastykake pie over a Hostess or Drake. I'm sure almost everybody in South Bend drove a Studebaker including the local police. Oldsmobile must've had a huge presence in Lansing, Michigan. I bet the Honda Accord dominates the landscape of Marysville, Ohio.
I feel the same way. Just seems like the right thing to do. Twenty years ago, when I used to go to South Bend on US6 or US20 instead of the Indiana Toll Road, you still saw Studebakers, including trucks, "outstanding in their field(s)", showing the local preference of the time. Not so much anymore.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
Perhaps GM's bailouts should have been paid for by the locals in areas where GM's bankruptcy actually would have had an effect (towns with plants in them).
I think the effect of a GM bankruptcy was wildy exaggerated for people that live outside of Michigan and Ohio.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Thanks for posting this, lemko. I've seen that car before at a big meet, but not in a few years. I think the way they styled a '64 out of a '63 is almost miraculous--"about the cost of a Plymouth door handle", as the designer, Brooks Stevens, remarked.
The police Studes of that error had a bench front seat but with bucket bolstering around the driver. Really strange-looking.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I think the effect of a GM bankruptcy was wildy exaggerated for people that live outside of Michigan and Ohio
There are GM plants outside those areas. For some reason, people who aren't into Big Three makes always seem to think they almost all emanate out of some factory in Detroit.
My Malibu was built in Kansas City, for instance.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
My 1989 Cadillac Brougham was built in Arlington, Texas. I believe there's a GM plant in Newark, Delaware that once built the Malibu. There was a huge Ford plant in Chester, PA.
the petite crossover's estimated fuel cost of $1,900 per year is the lowest of any 2013 model year crossover sold in the States
Dunno about where you live but I just drove by a price of $4.11 per gallon, so that ought to give this small-engined sport/cute its best possible chance.
I keep thinking they missed a trick with that. They could have called it the "Chevy Urban" and styled it to look like a little Suburban. Probably get more buyers. :shades:
For those that think only old drivers mistake the pedals in a vehicle, here's a story of a 22 year old in a GM vehicle killing someone while experiencing UA from hitting the wrong pedal.
Our '67 Chevelle was built in Baltimore, as were most Chevelles and Monte Carlos I looked at, at our local Chevy dealer, from then into the '80's.
Where were Bonnevilles built in 1969? I remember years ago (pre-internet) trying to de-code the VIN on my '69 Bonneville, and for some reason, Baltimore is sticking in my mind. Could that be correct?
Part of the reason the cause of the accident was instantly determinable was becasue the driver was coherent, accepted personal responsibility for the mistake/error, and admitted it rather than blame "mysterious electrical gremlins" taking their car over.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Possibly: 'Locate the 11th digit. This indicates the plant location. There are multiple plants in the same cities. A is for Lakewood, Georgia; B for Baltimore,...'
complaint for thousands of cars isn't a significant sample, either
That is correct. But why would there be 20x the number of Unintended Acceleration complaints with a Toyota vehicle compared to a GM vehicle. That is statistically significant, and there has to be a reason for it. What that reason is apparently nobody knows.
Put a couple of well placed news reports about Chevy Cruze UA incidents on the national news and watch the alleged UA reports start multiplying on Cruzes...
Comments
Especially at 708 mph! (5 minutes for 59 miles = 708 miles/hour)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Maybe not, maybe so? More plausible than the "shifter won't move to neutral." Her shifter wasn't broken in half so I know she didn't try hard enough to "budge" it. I'd of liked to have seen it sheared off for that excuse to hold any mustard.
It does sound like a case of unacceptable panic.
Just the other day some old guy drove a BMW off a 3rd story parking lot onto the parking lot at ground level while trying to park in San Diego's Fashion Valley Mall.
I think BMW should make a commercial about it "enough power to break concrete walls and barriers!"
All just to avoid a speeding ticket :sick:
Just nothing very mainstream....
Cars like the Chrysler Airflow, Tucker, etc. were all great vehicles, well ahead of their times, yet they didn't sell well at all.
Look at the cars made today, and see what features from those cars mention above are now either standard features, or available options.
The results for 4 cars..Sante Fe, Camry, Accord, and Malibu.
# of complaints : total sales
Sante Fe - 1 : 6,404
Camry - 1 : 2,960
Accord - 1 : 31,360
Malibu - 1 : 60,640
The complaint rate for the Sante Fe is 10x that of the Malibu and the Camry is 20x.
There are plenty of reports coming in for Toyota even after their recall, and Hyundai isn't trending very well either
#complaints : total sales
Ford Crown Vic - 1 : 26,450
Toyota Prius - 1 : 3,060
These complaints are made mostlly only after an accident of some kind and most reported multiple instances before the accident where the accelerator pedal stuck or responded abnormally. I am sure these are only a small percentage of actual occurances of UA.
I think it is safe to say that there are definitely instances of driver error where the accelerator is mistaken for the brake, but that does not explain the much higher rate in some makes, even when pedal positions and floor mat placement is taken into account. Luckily this is rare, but apparently real, and in all probabiltiy having something to do the the electronics and computer control.
This happened to a couple in their 60's in Korea in a Hyundai Sonata:
Sonata UA Video
To start off, you've simply made some assumptions that may (or may not) be accurate.
Do you KNOW the ages of the drivers involved in UA incidents, or are you guessing, simply based upon the car model? According to a quick Google search I just did on the average Prius owner, he/she is about 50, 10 years older than the average car owner.
I certainly don't have the stats, but I can tell you that on our local news, there's generally a UA incident at least once every 2 weeks, and the cars range from Toyotas to Ford Focus's, and many models in between, and in the overwhelming majority of cases, it's some geriatric driver that drives into a 7/11, laundromat or doctor's office.
The reason? Pedal confusion and panic.
That could be. Hasn't someone measured the distance between them along with the width of each pedal and compared them to the complaint rate? That is probably the first thing NHTSA should have done. But then again its a government agency, so who knows.
I don't have a Camry, but I do have a 09 Tacoma, and the pedals in it are closer than any other cars in my family...BMW, Mini, Altima and Versa.
The Tacoma is the only vehicle it recent history that I can remember stepping on both pedals simultaneously.
I'm very conscious of it when I drive the truck.
Again, this is not all that relevant. Similarly we could say that the reason there are so many rollover fatalities in all makes of SUVs is the design that puts the CG up high. And there are WAY more deaths from rollovers than SUA. So by that logic we should all quit buying SUVs.
Not gonna happen!
Chevy Malibu and Silverado. Tundra's do look close together but the others look about the same:
Now for your SUV, just make sure you know how to handle a sudden blowout and pay a bit more for good quality tires. I don't have any qualms driving either vehicle, but do pay a bit more attention to possible unusual ergonomics or handling issues when I drive one of them.
The "news" gets out there, and people that don't like to accept personal responsibility think "maybe I can get out of blame for this accident by claiming UA."
I can't say I entirely blame them as insurance companies are vicious leeches on society; and I can see why people would want to put one over on them. It wasn't me, it was the car, don't mark that accident as at-fault and raise my rates!
I believe the pedals being closer together helps a driver drive in more sporting fashion. Takes less time to move your foot from the brake to the gas and vice versa.
I found this to be refreshing reading.
It was from a clip from Automotive News that a friend sent me.
I think the effect of a GM bankruptcy was wildy exaggerated for people that live outside of Michigan and Ohio.
The police Studes of that error had a bench front seat but with bucket bolstering around the driver. Really strange-looking.
There are GM plants outside those areas. For some reason, people who aren't into Big Three makes always seem to think they almost all emanate out of some factory in Detroit.
My Malibu was built in Kansas City, for instance.
Towards the end they were building Astros and Safaris.
the petite crossover's estimated fuel cost of $1,900 per year is the lowest of any 2013 model year crossover sold in the States
Dunno about where you live but I just drove by a price of $4.11 per gallon, so that ought to give this small-engined sport/cute its best possible chance.
Cruze wagon, also.
Our '67 Chevelle was built in Baltimore, as were most Chevelles and Monte Carlos I looked at, at our local Chevy dealer, from then into the '80's.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/aug/27/mom-dies-when-driver-mistakes-gas-ped- - al-for-brake/
I think UA is an "inconsiderate driver" issue, but since the accident involved a GM vehicle, I'm posting it here. :sick:
It was certainly inconsiderate to kill that woman.
1 complaint for thousands of cars isn't a significant sample, either.
Where were Bonnevilles built in 1969? I remember years ago (pre-internet) trying to de-code the VIN on my '69 Bonneville, and for some reason, Baltimore is sticking in my mind. Could that be correct?
Mid-size Pontiacs I can't say I recall, but I'm thinking they weren't built in Baltimore.
You would think in nearly 60 miles you'd have time to reach down there and pull it out if you have time to use your cell phone to call 911!
One without the other doesn't mean much.
Can the Encore get out of its own way?
'Locate the 11th digit. This indicates the plant location. There are multiple plants in the same cities. A is for Lakewood, Georgia; B for Baltimore,...'
http://www.ehow.com/how_7409645_decipher-gm-vin-code.html
- Ray
Don't have a VIN for the 1969 I sold a loooong time ago
- and it was not a GM.....
That is correct. But why would there be 20x the number of Unintended Acceleration complaints with a Toyota vehicle compared to a GM vehicle.
That is statistically significant, and there has to be a reason for it.
What that reason is apparently nobody knows.
Put a couple of well placed news reports about Chevy Cruze UA incidents on the national news and watch the alleged UA reports start multiplying on Cruzes...