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...stiles dude,
......VCM unrelated, but if you'd post your fuel usage numbers over in the MPG area, I'll buy you a drink should you visit our left coast.............
best, ez.....
I get people once in awhile that do that and I can never understand this. Just seems like such a waste of time for them and for me.
Not a slam, just curious.
To everyone: we've gotten sidetracked with the personal arguments again. Let's get back to the subject of the VCM and drop the attacks on other members, please.
When I test drove the VCM Accord, I had already read several reviews on the car, so I knew it had the technology on board. And I have a 2006 Odyssey with VCM. During the test drive, I noticed the ECO light and VCM kicking in, but it was not that noticeable, and I also wasn't paying that much mind to it, probably because I was also not in the market to buy one. The VCM was also the 3rd of 4 Accords I drove (I had to order the 6spd, so actually put down a deposit before I could even drive one), and the 1st two didn't have it.
Another reason I test drove the car was because in about a year, we will replace my wife's Acura RL, and the new Accord is one candidate.
ezshift---I am averaging 19.8 mpg in my 6spd, with 3400 miles on the odo. It gets about 16~17 in town and about 26~27 on the freeway. Of course, this car does not have VCM.
The car doesn't have a trip computer that measures these things (which is frankly something that the EX model should have), but I would say based on two measurements I've done in recent fillups that I'm getting almost identical mileage with the VCM, with almost exactly the same number of miles. (City driving at any rate; I haven't yet done a long road trip to measure freeway miles.) Interesting.
Oh, I agree. And let's quote road tests and represent facts accurately.
Golfr
I think you should say MY car is a miss. Not all VCM Accord owners feel the same as you.
huh? How can you possibly speak for others? elroy is spot on...not all vcm owners are going to post like experiences to mine.
For example, road noise doesnt bother me as much as perhaps another poster. My 06 pilot has plenty of that, but that aspect wouldnt keep me from buying another one. However if the 09 vcm Pilot behaves like the vcm Accord, all bets are off. Ill keep my 06.
The van won't go into 5th gear much before 45 MPH anyway, so I don't see the point of needing to lock in 4th, after driving a 2005 Odyssey extensively.
Positive:
#1 The ride is much smoother.
#2 The steering ratio is much better for parking, even on a slightly bigger car.
#3 Little bit more power is always nice for avoiding stupid drivers while trying to merge on to the highway here in Dallas, the city of driving idiots! However, the 2004 wasn't bad, either.
#4 Interior is more along the lines of a luxury car. Woodgrain is a nice compliment.
#5 Exterior styling. I hated it when it first came out, probably because I loved the '04 styling better than any of the previous/successive versions, but it has grown on me like a weed.
#6 Sunroof controls. Like the one-touch control.
#7 Better range on the garage door HomeLink system.
#8 Driving lights with auto lighting, along with fog lamps. Fog's were an option back in the '04 days, but standard now on my version.
Negative:
#1 Master volume control. The bigger knob on the instrument panel should have been inverted from the smaller control to control the audio system as sometimes the steering wheel volume control is not sufficient to turn the sound down quickly. I've got used to it, but still.
#2 Climate controls. I liked the old dial controls for this better than the up/down controls as it takes longer to adjust the settings. Also takes your eyes off the road for a longer period of time because of the delay.
#3 Adjustable driver right-side arm rest. Too much room between my right elbow/arm and resting my right hand on the shifter (no, I'm not a midget). Love my '04 in that respect.
#4 The car wash that scratched my clear coat and window tint yesterday. Not happy.
No matter what, I like this version better than my previous V6. Isn't that what a new car is all about?
CSR
Going to the dealer tomorrow for "tests"--will be sure to update everyone.
They can test till the cows come home, but this is "how the VCM is designed to operate". They need to change the advertising from "seamless and goes unnoticed" to "Maddening and drives you insane"
take the car back before its too late, get the EXL with navi loaded in the 4 cyl.. you will thank me later. engine is still peppy and the fog lights are only abit less attractive as an option
Golf
I am actually not going in until next week now anyways....but I suspect that exactly what you just stated will happen.
I will just pray that the thing smooths out after 3K like others have said----or I need to get REALLY zen and learn to love the surges.
I would ask to talk to the District honda Rep and explain your dissatisfaction. In the end Honda will give you the party line about this... you will really need to lean on your Honda dealership to make you happy. That I am afraid, will most likely be another car before the miles get too high to sell... make your decision quickly and do the full court press now at the dealer level....
I think you will find my experience consistent with others that have had the same level of frustration with the car...in the end, Honda has not solved my/their problem
I really know of only one person who's VCM surging, lurching disappeared and while I dont doubt their experience I would bet my car, they just got used to it, the car didnt auto correct itself.. its is design to do what it does. the VCM "shock" (as Honda is now calling it ). ( btw anyone hear of that term in the advertising or literature??? nope think not,,, but guess what, it now has an official title/label) is a by-prduct of the VCM technology,, you either love it or hate it I am afraid.
If you hate it now,,, buckle in for a long road trip down Disdain Ave...."in my opinion"
Thanks for the info. Were you able to trade your for the 4 cyl?
golf's been getting a terrible runaround for awhile now with the dealer for his V6.
Besides ljgbjg's experience with his car "healing" inself, I also have noticed a decrease in the VCM surge and vibrating activity in my car to a point where at times I would also consider it to be gone. Then I'll feel a slight surge (like today) and I know it's still around, just not nearly where it had been. It is definitely better than what it was a few months ago. I now have about 11K on it. Overall, I LOVE my car!
I do not think that we are just getting used to it as you suggested may be the case with ljgbjg. I feel I am still very sensitive to what the car is doing and am always monitoring the feel of it. I do think that whatever ECM/mounts/transmission sensors, etc. are combining to either interact "seamlessly" (as is the case in most cars out there) or with the annoying surges/vibrations, there is a high probability that these parameters can move closer into "sync" over time, thus reducing the problem. This would explain my experience and others perhaps. However, by the same token, if this is the case, then those who currently are not experiencing any problems could have their fortunes reversed over time...!
I had a buddy of mine who is a car fanatic... With my car when driving in Cruise Control i DO NOT feel any VCM surging at all....on the inverse when using the gas pedal.. no matter how much I concentrate on zero movement the VCM is hyperactive. My buddy thinks the drive by wire / throttle is simply to sensitive.
The vibration is another story... the dealer has finally admitted in writing to us that the vibration exsists a huge step in this sage.. however I dont see Honda doing anything about it, .. as far as the VCM decreasing in strength, I had another mechanic tell me that as you drive the car the fuel injectors will naturally build up carbon thus decreasing the VCM activity as a possibility.. not sure on that one but he is a mechanical engineer and has worked in the auto industry for 30 years.. his guess is as good as any I would think?
Golf
The 4cyl felt loose and had a lot of body roll in the front end. The cars did not compare it was like an Acura TL compared to a Hundai. Someone said that they believe that 30% of the cars have the problem I can't imagine that so many people can have such different experiences with the same car. This thread actually made me nuts looking to find a symptom of what other have expereneced but have not found any consistant issues at all.
The ECO light came on a bunch. I felt some harmonic resonance and cylinder deactivation/activation between 50 and 70mph, typically when the cruise was off and a light touch on the accelerator. ECO/VCM was also triggered with the cruise on, but was less intrusive since my foot was doing less work, or unless the road elevation changed. The first car had about 30 miles on the odo, and the second was a sales manager's demonstrator with 1100 miles on it. The 2nd generation VCM is more noticeable than on my Odyssey, mostly because it kicks on/off more frequently, and engages different sets of cylinders. The resonance is similar to the Ody, but not intrusive. Neither the car or van are whisper quiet anyway. You can hear and feel the engine/tires in both, so at times that accentuates the VCM sensations, while other times it covers up VCM due to road or engine noise.
I didn't sense any harsh surging or bucking that some have described, unless I was creating it with my own foot. Both cars also kicked down fine if I needed a lower gear. I had no issues with grade logic or drive by wire. Once your senses are tuned in, you definitely know when the VCM is doing its thing, but it's not annoying to me. It's a different sensation, and your foot learns to drive this car differently due to the VCM.
IMO, this car is not as enjoyable to drive compared to previous Accords, primarily because it is larger with less road feel and "tossability." The car feels heavier and more substantial. But my 6spd coupe feels heavier and more substantial compared to my 2003 6spd, too. The throttle feel is more mechanical (drive by wire?), and the sensation is less engaging. But it still has that familiar, firm Honda ride that you don't find in a Toyota or even Nissan.
Based on 55 miles of varied driving, I was left with a "ho hum" reaction and felt none of the bad stuff that some have described on these boards. Compared to my previous Accords, this car feels less connected or intuitive. Maybe it's the VCM and drive by wire. But it also felt like a good, solid piece of engineering with a quality feel to it. It's luxurious and huge inside. Even the steering wheel is fat. I miss the one in my previous coupe/sedan which were just the right size for me.
Assuming VCM delivers fuel economy, I was left mostly impressed with this car. Based on the 2 VCM Accords I drove, I can't reconcile the handful of strong complaints voiced on this board.
Only one person on this board got their car replaced - a coupe in Columbia, SC by Midlands Honda and put him in a 6 speed instead. Honda's website has changed I think - it now reads that the VCM is "NEARLY seamless". I do believe that is a change from earlier. If you would like I would be happy to let you drive my car and I drive yours. Just contact me through this site and my profile.
. To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.”
TODAY??!!
"To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is nearly seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers."
TA DA!!! I think anyone unhappy with the VCM has a great case against Honda for false advertising and could rescind their purchase. A partial victory for you golfrski - that they changed their advertising is an ADMISSION that the prior advertising was incorrect and misleading. Good luck everyone - I see a huge class action here - some attorney delaing with class actions is bound to pick up on it, along with individual lawsuits.
My comments are not intended to be personal to your situations and I think it is an admirable accomplishment to have proof that Honda is, in fact, hearing your complaints. But if I were a class action plaintiff's attorney, I wouldn't touch this case with the proverbial ten-foot-pole.
They say it's sealess and not perceived by the passengers. It doesn't say that the driver doesn't notice it...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Merriam Webster - a traveler in a public or private conveyance
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I understand the importance of "subsequent remedial measure" of correct a defect and public policy in that regard, and federal rules of evidence. Even in those cases
evidence of subsequent remedial measures, however, is admissible in some circumstances, such as:
To show ownership or control of the thing repaired
To impeach a claim that no such improvements or repairs were possible before the injury occurred
However, we are not talking about a remedial measure here - we are talking about a change of advertising. There is no public policy issue here about injury and further prevention thereof, like where a traffic light is installed at an intersection because there have been too many fatal accidents there. I would have to disagree that a court would not allow admission into evidence that Honda changed its advertising because it was wrong.
Your GM's statement differs from what my dealership has told me (car operating "normally") and what other posters' dealerships have told them (same). I mean no disrespect to you or your GM, but it sounds like salesmanship to me.
Coupe - The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.
Sedan - The transition between the three operating modes is nearly seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.
Could there be a separate issue here and the sedans with the problems and the coupes with none?
Why might that be?
I also disagree that the "completely" claim is mere puffing. If it were just non-actionable puffing, why did Honda change the word to "nearly"?
Finally, I disagree that consumers won't be able to show that they relied on this advertising in purchasing the car. The claim is hardly "minutiae." The centerpiece of Honda's print and broadcast advertising for the new Accord is achieving best fuel economy in class without sacrificing ride quality, luxury, and the like. (That was why I chose the Accord.) VCM is an integral part of that campaign. Completely seamless suggests some diminution in ride quality or the like; nearly seamless puts consumers on cue that there's a potential issue.
A class action lawyer might or might not touch it, but the change in advertising is a potentially very useful weapon as individuals move forward in the lemon law process or in negotiating with Honda.
The Accord continues to sell very well, and Honda reports they underestimated the demand for V6 versions. There is a large and growing number of VCM owners out there. Plus, Honda seems intent on offering VCM on more models. If you do the math, a potentially large class certainly exists. But is it a relatively satisfied class, or a disgruntled one?
Class action activity has been bubbling up in pockets regarding the Odyssey PAX system, which was discontinued by Honda and Michelin after 4 model years. Accord owners may want to track the trajectory of that class action to see what their odds may be with the Accord. Ironically, these PAX-equipped Odysseys also have VCM, albeit the 1st generation version. But no one seems to be suing Honda about the Ody VCM.
I continue to search for developments, facts, and complaints outside this forum that may help corroborate the issues with VCM, but I'm not finding any. It's very odd indeed. Is anyone complaining in significant numbers about VCM in the Pilot, 06-07 hybrid Accord, or Odyssey?
If it caused the car to stall on the Interstate and cause a wreck, or you lost control and ran into a tree, I could see damages...
But aside from the ECO light coming on and off, and feeling some vibration in the car, and everybody DID test drive their vehicles prior to purchase, just what kind of major damages have you suffered???...that a Honda wasn't as quiet as your previous Hondas???
Aside from your view that a Honda should be perfect, how have you been harmed???...is this the first car you ever bought that failed to be perfect???...have you bought a UAW car in the last 30 years???
I understand that many of you (some of you?) are annoyed at the workings of the VCM, but have they actually caused your car to malfunction or become unsafe, or are you simply expecting something that they failed to provide, like a "seamless" car???
Please help me understand how your VCM has injured or damaged you in any way...
Yeah, perhaps taking them to court would be difficult. It's only, almost a $30,000 investment and just Suck-It-Up like a 'Man'. Maybe it's about ethical business practices? Doing the right thing? Stonewalling it and not acknowledging? This says more to me about big corporate Honda than anything else. They are just like every car manufacturers and the network of their dealers. One just has to find the 'Lesser of Evils', I suppose. Has not changed in all these years (but claims by some dealers, that they have supposedly changed). All the stupid game playing with 'them' when shopping/buying of vehicles. Still goes on to different degrees when I have auto shopped around these past few months.
In Honda's Ad campaign in reference to this version of VCM (the 3 different cylinder modes operation), it has been repeatedly pointed out since the beginning of this topic, that Honda used the phrase 'completely seamless', however, as just pointed out by a poster here, they have now changed it to 'nearly seamless'.
Here is Honda's Ad page showing that specific new phrase change ....
nearly seamless
Here is a PDF (2mb) 23 page 2008 Accord Sedan & Coupe brochure. On page 11 it has the original phrase ....
completely seamless
If one does internet searching, you may find other references to the 'completely seamless' in the online cached versions of Honda's Ads before it was changed to 'nearly seamless'.