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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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"BNSF Railway Co., one of the country's biggest consumers of diesel fuel, plans this year to test using natural gas to power its locomotives instead."
Berkshire's BNSF Railway to Test Switch to Natural Gas (WSJ)
I am finding it hard to push the 3.0 engine very hard without using lower gearing, as I did during early break in (under 65 mph). I do let it decelerate as aggressively as I can (or probably more operationally: NTE 4,000 rpm) without being a safety hazard on LONGER downgrades. The "no fuel draw" feature (with no throttle demand) really adds to the mpg. The 8 speed A/T is also VERY robust.
I think we showed the cost/s. Truly it does not seem to be the issue that some might have feared. In any case I think the supporting data/formulas is/are there for anyone to use as they see fit. I got the Ad blue cheaper than Walmart's prices. It is probably why they include it in the contract !? :shades:
Not having driven the van for 2 months isn't helping run the miles up though. :shades:
(and I'd settle for one 30 mpg tank driven easy).
I am not sure how CA compares with the audiences in the other 50 states, but I am not eager to spend close to 9% in sales tax every 100,000 miles.
So folks can easily get a handle on it, PER 10k that is app 900.
So 20k, 30k , 40k (for a car) can put that @ a + plus $1.8k, 2.7k, 3.6k. It also boosts your car registration to ever increasing new year car registration, which does go down every year after. There is talk of reinstating the 2% declining yearly fee, in lieu of state income tax. This would be in addition to the state sales tax. In other words tax on tax is the concept. The realities are tax on tax on tax, etc. Insurance also spikes and you carry comprehensive and collision insurance almost perpetually.
To state the obvious, going forward, one will have a hard time buying a $10,900 vehicle. Just the simple fact of unstated inflation boosts the price of a car from year to year app 4%. So really for planning purposes, one is really looking at a $21,800. Again, even that is a moving target.
Your fuel tax on the same miles at 30 MPG will be $397.50. Toss in another $450 per year for state vehicle registration, and you get some serious taxes on driving here.
I mean I can understand a non diesel type blowing an intellectual gasket at the thought of ad blue (additional) costs and the extra effort. So for example, if I DIY for the ad blue (given your example plus real costs @ 20 per 15,000 miles), the ad blue costs per mile driven is closer to .00133.
But yeah, guys like me who balk at buying a car that requires premium fuel or having to use synthetic oil don't like the thought of additional maintenance.
Guys like you aren't going to shop a complex or highline car to begin with
Interesting that you think diesel cars are "complex" though.
A diesel like mine is a complex car compared to the base Rio that might appeal to a skinflint. The systems will be unfamiliar to the normal gasoline car driver, and finding fuel will worry them. It's probably not for everyone, but could be for many more than it is now.
And yeah, the USPS woman has been here twice already this week. :-)
They also run extremely high compression ratios and are fuel-sensitive buggers, so you have to be on your toes to run a diesel.
That is why they make plain vanilla ice cream. I prefer Dulce de leche or better yet a nice Creme Brulee with fresh raspberries on top.
So I just had one of my first diesel related unscheduled maintenance items @ app 179,000 miles. Computer scan indicated an intermittent #3 glow plug check idiot light issue. The $69 glow plug harness was swapped out and just for preventative grins, 4 glow plugs were changed out. Over kill? yes.
You just reset the clock for the whole system. That's a wise move to prevent down time in the future as they each fail one by one.
I'd still be tempted to consider a diesel as my next car. I can't imagine getting a 2013 hybrid repaired once it's out of warranty.
Here is merely one OEM example.
GASSER hpfp issues
Why the leap was made to the hpfp being a diesel issue "ONLY" defies the LOGIC and the facts.
Or were you referring to a post somewhere 6 months ago?
I was simply expressing that diesels can be still quite a complicated IC engine.
As for potential issues, they have their own set of rules (compared to gas IC) with broad boundaries. I am reminded of one of the brands..I think was VW, who had a recall for the injector lines breaking at or near the fuel injectors, posing a fire hazard. It was determined that the break was from vibration due to the incredibly high power pulses of having exceptionally high inline pressures, combined with the high CR shake that a diesel exhibits. Very few design engineers could have predicted this.....well wait...that isn't what I meant to say...rather..they did have vibration handling design built in to the original line rack mounting areas...but it wasn't until more miles were racked up by the buying public that the design weakness revealed it wasn't up to snuff.
VW stepped up of course.
I also am not sure where later model diesels got the reputation of being uncomplicated. Later models have never been. Just as later model gassers have not been. I think the "last uncomplicated "GASSER that I can remember was my 1970 VW Beetle bought in 1971 USED. That was of course 43 years ago.
On the hpfp vibration issue, the 2009 Jetta TDI (one of the ones I would be concerned with) was brought into the local VW dealer (2011 ish?) for the #2 fuel injection line "resonance issue" TSB,: SR 23J9/V5. The fear here was the natural resonance would create stress and degrade the #2 fuel line over time. This increases the chances of fuel leaks over a very small number of parts: fire basically: NHTSA C ID# 11V490000.
RUG/PUG vs D2 really have different ways they can get wonky. In that sense, both HPFP's require "excellent" filtration.
My FIL said that the had replaced some wear components in the suspension, engine hoses, and something about the injectors (which was the biggest issue he had with the truck prior to the glow plugs going south). So, overall it's been extremely reliable given the miles on it now. But, those 300K miles were put on it in three years (2008-2010)!
They weren't getting consistent enough work in piloting to make ends meet, so they went a different direction and started driving the trucks instead of piloting them. Now, they rarely need to drive a passenger vehicle (pickups included).
I didn't see shifty say anything about HPFP systems having issues either..
Relax, ruking, breathe ..not everyone is here to jump on anything diesel negative..certainly not me..
Send that defense mode off for a nap
"I didn't see shifty say anything about HPFP systems having issues either.. "
I guess that would really depend on what he meant about "very sensitive fuel delivery systems", eh?
Now that is not to say there are not some folks who for whatever reason like to store up to 55 gal plastic drums of bio diesel in their garages !!!!! ??????? :confuse: :sick: :lemon:
Maybe you should have this discussion with some truckers, because they meet issues with diesel fuel all the time and they know what's up like nobody else does, including me.
I've owned diesel cars and diesel boats, so I'm just conveying what I had to deal with. I did lots of filter changes, bio-cide, cetane additives, water traps, injector additives and fresh fuel changes, and I had pretty trouble-free performance.
I did see this: "They also run extremely high compression ratios and are fuel-sensitive buggers" though..
You just added the "delivery systems" to support your reply..instead of sending that defensiveness off for a nap like I suggested!! :P
And coincidently, I thought I had this issue sorted, and even with these efforts, I still had to tear down the carb on my Yammy generator just yesterday..the knees are still screwed..
I think I forgot to syphon and refreshen the gas in it once a year ago, and that was all it took to screw it up. i HATE ethanol :mad:
Speaking of which..any electrical engineers here? My 2400 watt'r is defaulting into "overload" cycle (which requires shutting the engine off to reset) when attempting to power a 14 amp Skil saw. I can't even get it to stay by pressing the saw power button momentarily a number of times letting it build revs progressively, thinking that that would address the electric motor surge on start up. It will still run an electric heater, which I think is a 1200 or even 1500 watt. It'll easily power up two 5 amp electric drills powered on at same time..so I wonder what is up with the saw? Any ideas? It's a fairly fancy 2400 watt generator..uses inverter tech, very PC friendly and super quiet. It's been my standby for all things 'light' when the power goes out..TV, PC, fridge/freezers etc.
And it still will run all these things fine, but recently started to balk at anything with a draw of more than about 700 watt. Asking it to start that saw is not outta line at all I wouldn't think..it is a 2400 watt, limme check the amp rating..16.7. Just went and got my old Makita saw which is 13 amp. It used to start it fine. But not this 14 amp Mastercraft, even...like I say.. switching the on/off momentarily a number of times letting it build revs progressively. Ya, the 13 amp tried to snuff it but didn't. Maybe the extra 1 amp is the issue after all. But something else and this one I am not sure if I bought it new this way..the 12 voltput says 19.96 volt and still 16.9 volt when powering an old 12 volt headlight beam. I wonder if there is a voltage reg that works on both sides of AC and DC? (it says to never run DC at same time, but don't know why..I always assumed this was idiot-proofing wording so someone doesn't try to run full 6.5 amp 12 DC and 16.7 amp 120 v AC at same time). 120 side is 124.8 volt under no load.
I thought this was because of a dirty carb..(it is how I found out it was gummed a bit) cuz for the past few years all it ever did was light duty. But one day I tried to plug in a 700 watt heater and it snuffed the engine and threw the overload light on. After cleaning the carb..I just went and tried it on that same heater and it is fine now.
I have never had bad D2( in 255k miles). On the other side, (255k or 510k total miles) I have never had bad RUG/PUG. If I did for EITHER, it did NOT affect running.
I am quite confident that shifty would not concede that the fuel pump is not sensitive to the fuel that's intro'd to it.. AND YOU KNOW THAT! Quit trying to have to be right all the time! We're all friends here, especially those who support diesel on this forum..quit trying to have to constantly feel you gotta defend! Sheeshh..