Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
So the people who desperately want 40 mpg can't afford it and the people who can afford it don't care if it's 30 mpg or 40 mpg. That's simply not great enough to really be on the mix-luxury car buyer's radar IMO.
Do you really think if I crossed off the 38 mpg on the GLK250's window sticker and put 30 mpg, that total sales would change very much, if at all?
I don't think so.
And do you think the average American is going to stare at a GLK250, stroking his chin and say to himself "now let's see, in ten years time, if I save X dollars per year on gas, then....."
HAH! :P
So for example: IF 22% buy diesel MB ML350 BlueTec's does that indeed dial out completely better mpg as a motivator? Or if one buys the defacto 78% gassers, does than mean he / she is a hypocritical enviro con? I don't think so.
For me, it was rather an easy logic. IF I am going to get whatever vehicle in whatever segment, given a choice between diesel/gasser/etc would I rather get worser/better mileage?
In the MB ML350 Bluetec's example, 22% in effect/defacto VOTED with their check books.
In Europe across the passenger vehicle fleet that metric is more like 50% PLUS+ for.... like models. Indeed in /US markets that is more like 5% up from 3% a very short time ago. 66% growth.
Ah, I spent a week in Victoria BC a few years ago. I went into the MB dealer and looked at the Smart diesels. He said they sell as soon as they get to the dealer. I also talked to an owner. He claimed 70 MPG around town was his average. Next thing I see you have been Californicated. Very Sad for Canada. Though it looks like you are making some positive strides politically.
The older demographic Mercedes diesel buyers are probably pushing up daisies. A whole new group of buyers will have to be educated to the positives the diesels offer. And even more positives now than in the 1970s and 80s. There was about 20 years that MB did not offer diesels in the USA. And Lexus ate their lunch. Now Lexus is trailing the German leaders again as it should be. And just about by the number of Luxo diesels sold in the USA.
Maybe it's a marketing problem, ultimately. There is no prestige to a diesel. This may be cultural. The diesel in America still has the tinge of being suited to commercial uses.
If you asked a focus group to pin labels on a diesel engine, it'd probably be something like "rugged"..."economical"...long-lasting"...."tough". You would not get labels like "refined"..."smooth"...."sophisticated"...."precision"...."machine like"......
And I agree, the "old diesel lovers" are disappearing, and a new generation of car buyers needs to be thoroughly re-educated.
In a way, it might be similar to GM's problem with re-educating young, upwardly mobile buyers to buy a Cadillac. All their former customers died.
However the 22% or so was posted by Gagrice and in that sense "historical data". Now if you are implying that MB wants higher volumes and percentages, then it would probably be incumbent on them to "kick it up a notch" in the "edge u ma cation" department and others. I really did not get the feeling last year (2012) either BMW or MB were pulling out any stops on the diesel front. I got largely a "we don't get many" so this is the price....
That is exactly the feeling I get at all the German dealers. Oh, you like the diesels. Most say they only get a few and they sell before they get to the showroom. Have any of them advertised the diesel models on TV?
I also think people will be more worried about MPG when we match EU gas prices, which are about double ours.
Just this side of knees getting sore or not responding like I want them to and I pack it in for the day, so far 12 days. There seems to be a lot less waiting in line for chairlifts as a remember in my "youth". The kids even made me get a helmet !!
i think we have to admit that the # of cylinders is a not inconsequential factor in the luxury market.
As with lots of other things in life : "It's not what you've got, it's how you use it" that counts.
Why would one think this in the first place? Audi and BMW are selling 4 cyl Luxury cars for a while now...
However, I think newer cars are not only better engineered and executed (engine, drive train, suspension systems), but the first so called "major tune up" is @ app 100,000 to 120,000 miles. I personally have gone from 1,500 to 3,000 miles OCI's to more like 10,000, 20,000 30,000 miles OCI's.
As it applies to TDI's, I have one that is 10 years old and has 180,000 miles and I really look forward to the next 120,000 miles (300,000 TBD ) !!!!! ( and 10 years PLUS+)
I think most will acknowledge a certain "tyranny of newness".
But you're right, you can run up a $50,000 tab on a 4 cylinder luxury gasser (BMW 5 series).
I just spent an hour with a very knowledgeable BMW salesman. He told me the i328 will be here soon with a 4 cylinder diesel. He is hoping for the X3 with the same engine. I asked about X5 diesel sales. He told me it is way ahead of the V6 gassers. When people find out you get a $3500 Eco credit from BMW they jump on the diesel.
A lot of things to like about the X5D.
50,000 total free service including brakes, wipers etc.
Best handling on my list.
gobs of acceleration 0-60 in 6.9 secs.
NAV updates done by recall.
And a few I don't like.
Deal breaker:Run Flat tires
Hard seats
Small NAV screen
He claims run flat tires are vastly improved.
Going forward however, I think that BMW has to improve on that metric. I think they also face regulatory monetary penalties if they do not.
According to Edmunds the comparably equipped V6 gasser is only MSRP $1500 less. You don't get leather with the stripped model. You have to get the Premium to be comparable. So after the $3500 rebate the diesel is less than the gasser.
That said, the one area mfrgrs have excelled in lately is in corrosion resistance. And if you have that, at least you can keep rebuilding other failing systems. I notice now in winter parking lots that even systems like leaking steel gas tanks are becoming rarer every winter as the old clunkers finally succumb to other corrosion on the body panels and unibody sub-suspension assembly mounting areas.
In another thread there is mention of how dependent our cars have become on electronics and software upgrades and reflashes etc. I tend to agree that it's the next real potential concern for long term owners. And..IMO, it's not happening by accident. Mfrgrs...one way or the other...are designing their cars to have to come back to the dealer for repair. It is criminal really. You buy a car outright. Pay their price in whole. It should be YOURS. 100%!..Instead we get significant caveats and omissions.. like the software with which is used for your car to work. When something goes wrong or a bug is discovered..we find out that that part of the car we don't own at all! And NEVER will! It's wrong on a number of levels.
Perhaps crap like this can make a stronger case for leasing eventually..but because residuals will go up predictably, depreciation (fear in the mind of the next and subsequent owners who purchase it used) will ensure that leasing costs themselves will probably rise compared to what we've ever seen so far..
After having all that in my Sequoia, I have to agree with you. My NAV was 3 years out of date when I bought the SUV. They want $500 for a newer out of date DVD. The NAV CD player died on the vehicle. Took months to get a replacement from the factory in India. A person can get a Verizon Jet Pack and a cheap 10 inch Tablet that will give up to the minute traffic and directions via Google maps. The sad part is most diesel SUVs I am interested in put all that crapolla in as standard equipment.
It needed a few gaskets replaced in the engine, transfer case and transmission. But I am told by long time repair guru's, these are common to TLC's. While they were in there, they also adjusted the valves. The internal parts were literally showing original tool marks and were pristine in spite of (or defacto maybe because of) 20,000 miles OCI's (@ 220,000+ miles) . I understand it also uses the Aisin brand transmission. The thing continues to smog @ 4 year old values.
To add to the last two posts, I was glad the VW Touareg comes in three trims. For what I want a vehicle for, I would even consider an even more basic trim. !
I got a $99. navi big box club special that can be popped in and out of multiple cars. When that either breaks down or no longer makes sense, it will probably be even cheaper to replace. Late breaking sales news. One navi vendor offers a refurbished unit for $ 51. Two well known (auto) navi vendors are headquartered near here. In fact anyone that uses navi for commercial aggie and other professional apps will recognized a third ( former (navi) client).
I am not sure on other cars, but VW across the line has a 12 year rust warranty. Not that anyone can see it, nor would non VW owners even care, they use galvanized metal.
The downgrade return posted 35.2 mpg : 2 delays of 35 min and only 200#'s in the trunk posted for a R/T average of 33.3 mpg. There was rain, some sleet and ALMOST a posted chain control point. Stuck behind a covey of RANK mountain drivers.
Premium was blowing the doors off at $4.38.
Whenever I buy gas again, I'll try to check the pump prices at my usual station (have to drive Wednesday, so that'll be the day that both cars will finally be on fumes. :-)).
SIDEBAR:
(high friction load onto very small areas of the camshaft; causing faster and more wear on camshafts) ( best fix being: spread the higher friction loads over greater areas of the camshaft combined with a greater viscosity oil like 5w40)
I have heard of a few cases where VW would either pick up the tab (rare) or if they even did that, a portion. The population was fairly small (but with some significance, so the practical fix was to get the cam R/R'd and use a "non specified" 5w40 oil like Mobil One TDT, or another oil (available @ Walmart). I have read in such cases the reliability has been very good.
The Chattanooga-built Passat continued to deliver strong results with 9,521 units sold and best year-to-date with 25,909 units delivered. In March, 34 percent of the Passat’s sold were diesel.
Audi did well with diesel:
Sales mix for Audi TDI clean diesel models finish the month at 23% for the A3 TDI and 26% for Q7 TDI.
It is a bit of a mystery to me why BMW (whille buidling the X 5 and others for WW consumption and the 35D (other diesels also) for the US consumption IN the USA) does not mention the diesel percentage much at all.
Very few of the oil majors had oils to that spec on retail sale in Europe, (and probably even fewer in USA), so it was a case of buying the odd litre for top-up from VW/Audi/Skoda/SEAT dealers. Not the cheapest but certainly the most cost-effective.
Later TDis used later specs but it was, and still is, a case of the right horse for the right course.
Just my two penn'orth of knowledge/personal experience.