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But my feeling is that the difference is worth any additional money you would put up front. You will thank yourself later.
In the Jan - Feb time frame i shall be FINALLY purchasing my new 4Runner so i have a some time to figure out the best and cheapest route to lower the seat height.
Thanks again!
Toyota did a fantastic job with the 4Runner. It is so well engineered in every way. It is not an exaggeration to say it is both one of the best on-road and one of the best off-road suv's in the market today. To me, that's the perfect suv. There simply is no other vehicle in existence today that has the capabilities of the 4Runner. I have owned a GS300 and the interior is nearly the same quality. It is amazing. Lexus quality and ride, Land Rover off-road capability. All that for around $30,000. Amazing.
If it's really possible, what it the Toyota part number?
Thanks,
Eric
Up here in canada it is a $28 accessory, which would pretty much make it free in the states with the conversion!
'Lexus quality and ride' - what???? The 4Runner is an excellent vehicle, but I would certainly not elevate it to that level, especially after reading the last 5 or 10 pages of this thread.
My frustration is that when I asked the lady at the parts counter at the dealer about it, she insisted that if it existed, she would know about it. She didn't know about it and therefore it doesn't exist.
So without getting a part number or contacting another dealer, I'm stuck until the factory somehow updates the dealer I wnet to.
-Eric
It rides better than a RX300 and I prefer the firmer XREAS to the RX330 so yeah, I consider it Lexus quality. The Limited is just about the same $ as the RX330 so it SHOULD BE AND IS of similar quality. Considering the 4Runner shares a platform with the new Lexus suv tells you something about the quality of the 4Runner.
Every review has placed the 4Runner's on road quality on par with the best car based suv's on the market. Consumer Reports (as stated in an earlier post) prefers the 4Runner's ride over the 4 wheel independent Nissan Murano.
So based on MY experience OWNING Lexus and Nissan vehicles among others, as well as actually OWNING a 4Runner YES it has superior ride and quality.
In 1980 I had an ordinary Toyota Celica with a glass tilt-up sunroof added. The glass could be removed, but I almost never did it. At certain speeds, and with the glass removed and both windows part way down, there was this tremendous 'whop-whop-whop' sound. It was bad enough to be disorienting and would quickly induce nausea. I can't say if it made the car shake violently, but the phenomenon shook me so much I wouldn't have noticed.
I can't say for sure, but I suspect that SUVs like the 4Runner *can* be made to exhibit this behavior worse than other vehicles. Especially with a rear window that can be left open while driving, plus a sunroof, there are lots of wild resonance possibilities with this vehicle. Not a defect at all, in my opinion, but something to be a bit careful about.
To be honest, since it is so prevalent in many vehicles, I find this to be a non-issue and a bit silly to be talking about.
For me, it's like telling someone that the radio is dangerous because you can damage your hearing if you turn it all the way up.
Rode in my co-worker's Navigator today and it does the same thing with the rear windows down.
this is cut and pasted from the canadian web site 4runner accessories page:
"Towing Hitch (6,000 & 7,200 lbs with weight distribution) $257"
Sorry, its $257 canadian, but it is there. i recommend going to the dealer and telling them to open a browser, go to toyota.ca and select the 4runner accessories page. Then tell them to "Get it!"
It doesnt say only the V8 model so it probably is ok on both models.
When I got home from work tonight I went over to the neighbors who has a fairly new 2003 Grand Cherokee Jeep. I told him I wanted to go for a drive and try out the "buffeting test" to see how his vehicle would react. With both rear windows down we drove up to 70mph. No question this was hard on the ears, and the slightest crack of a front window totally eliminated it. But there was absolutely no shaking or excess movement of the vehicle at all. Zilch. Zero. I would be curious to have a few 2003 4runner owners try a similar test and see what results they get. Maybe the owner who traded his vehicle had a unique situation. Don't all vehicles have "pass-through" air vents in the back to allow for some air equalization, vents that according to design and size might have an effect on the "buffeting" that seems to be common? I know the vents are designed for normal air flow, just wondering if manufacturers address this situation at all.
As far as quality I was mainly referring to fit and finish, which as nice as the 4runner is, in my opinion it does not approach that of the Lexus. Just sitting in a 4runner you can detect a lot of cheapened dash and interior parts, and from reading posts about various squeaks and rattles it seems to be they are a step below Lexus country.
I own a 4Runner.
I own a dog.
Sometimes the dog even jumps into the back of the 4Runner for rides.
I have even done this with the windows open.
I have experienced wind turbulence with the rear windows open.
It was not unsafe.
As I don't like to be uncomfortable, I cracked another window.
Since you have experienced wind turbulence first hand, you can now change your original statement that it doesn't exist.
As for quality, are you talking about fit and finish or cheapened parts? Your post uses the terms interchangeably. Yes there are cheaper parts because the 4Runner has a lower starting price but the fit and finish are top notch. I would still say the overall quality of fit/finish and materials is as good as the RX300 and definetly much better than the IS.
Sorry to break it to you but Lexus owners experience rattles and sqeaks too. I have not had any yet in the 4Runner.
A few comments. I previously had a 2001 sequoia ltd. and now have a 2003 4 runner sport. They are very different animals. The sequoia was and is a very big vehicle for around town driving. I prefer small cars( my daily drive is an 03 golf tdi, my wife has the 4 runner weekdays. ) But once on the highway the sequoia was just great for a family of 4 and light towing. The 4 runner feels a bit squashed by comparison but is more nimble around town. The Sequoia had a 4 speed and at 65 mph would sometimes kick down to 2nd on a long highway hill and always felt it could use another liter of displacement. This might be coming in 04 or 05. The factory Dunlops on the Sequoia were terrible and I only realized how bad when I replaced at 38,000 kms with toyo all terrain . These were a bit noisier but totally changes the steering and handleing. This would be worth while to pay the upgrade when new to get somthing better such as michelin LTX m/s. The 4 runner sport or LTD has a slightly upgraded dunlop which I convinced myself would be good enough but is not. Here however , on the new 4 runner the size limits what you can get and the Michelin cross iterrain s not good enough in the rain for my needs.
Having said all that the 4 Runner v8 and new 5 speed is the best and smoothest I have ever driven. If I was to do it again I would have gotten the LTD.
To answer your question though both vehicles
are a bit top heavy for fast cornering. The sequoia would lean a bit but never felt like I could roll it, especially with the good tires. The 4 runner has xres so doesn't lean but does feel like if I pushed it really hard I might be playing with fire. It an Ideal world you could have speed sensitive steering and adjustible hight and stiffness. Did someone say lexus?
By the way you don't fly tri stars still do you?
Not many left now.
Cheers steve D
No, I don't fly 1011's - I wish I did...My color blindness kept me from flying. Oh well...the 1011 is just my favorite airliner.l
Thanks, Matthew
Maybe it is a little different with the V6 since it is a little lighter than a V8?
are you sure that you are hitting the same corner at the same speed when doing the evaluation?
Anyways, i do not encourage hard cornering w/ SUVs. Get a Mini instead.
4Runner vs. Lexus:
First of all, I paid $15,000 less for the 4Runner than I would've for a GX470, so I can not expect the same quality interior. On the other hand, the fit and finish are TOP NOTCH. The materials are right on par. The ride is sooo smooth and quiet. That V8 engine is just so silky you don't even know it's there.
Funny thing:
I pulled up to a stoplight yesterday and a guy in a Jeep pulled up next to me. He asked how much the 4Runner is going for "nowadays". Told him all about it and got a "wow...that's a fine looking truck! where'd you buy it? I want one!"
For those who want real problems, drive a Land Rover or VW. Wind buffetting will be a cakewalk.
Tell me about it. I'm hoping to scrape up the money to dump my 2000 GTI GLX and get a 4Runner. Yesterday the GTI cost another $1000 for a total of $1600 in repairs this month.
Are they worth it? They do provide you with some peace of mind. I purchased one for my 99 Jeep Grand Cherokee and was the best decision I've made (buying the Jeep was the worst decision). I will be buying a 2004 4runner, and will also be buying an extended warranty, since it's a newly redesigned model. No one knows what to expect from the redesign in 5 years. Also, I'm told toyota parts tend to be expensive. It's also good for resale if it is transferable.
On the other hand, your 2002 model has been tried and tested, and reliability is outstanding. For me, It would depend on how long you plan to keep the car and the final price of the warranty. Good luck.
Since I resurrected the topic, what have people paid for platinum warranties?
I tried full-throttle acceleration again this morning, from a stop to about 60 MPH. Then I finished climbing a moderate hill and came in to work, about another mile of driving. The windows were rolled up all the time, and the fan was off, with the recirc/fresh button in the recirc position. I can't be sure, but I think I detected the tiniest bit of the sulfur smell. It wasn't even the sulfur smell per se, just a bit of that kind of "soft" organic small that I interpret as sulfur at the lowest concentration I can detect. This same thing happened one time previously.
Perhaps the most interesting thing to me about this is that I had the windows up and recirc on. This suggests to me that if I had a vehicle that was producing this smell a lot and if I had the vehicle's airflow configured differently, I might experience the smell a lot more often or more intensely.
Others have commented on the position of the exhaust tip on the 4Runners. For those having a problem with the smell, there are some simple experiments that might improve things. Try temporarily extending the exhaust tip a few inches and/or redirecting it more to the side. One could use metal or probably even a high-temperature plastic such as CPVC, and duct tape. If this works, go to an exhaust shop and have them weld on something permanent. A simple tip modification wouldn't cost much.
BTW, this is a 2003 with the V6 engine and I've never experienced the smell except briefly after heavy acceleration, with the rear window down. Also BTW, the acceleration test is a lot of fun! The 4Runner gets to 60 MPH very quickly, even uphill, reving to 5000 easily before shifting. I haven't timed it, but it's not typical SUV performance.
Here are a couple of useful explanations about the sulfur smell: http://www.ipia.ie/oilbrief/hydrogen.htm http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/exhaust.html
When we test drove we noticed that the Ltd. had more lean than the sport and both had xres. I had a couple of salesman try to sort this out for us and they drove both back to back a couple of times and at first agreed with me but they later felt that the seats in the Ltd were softer and gave a feeling of leaning but that they both had identical handling.
The ltd does have air bag rear suspension to provide adjustable hight adjustment and according to the literature "a more comfortable ride and occasional heavy towing."
Like I said before if I were to it again and will do next time is get a Ltd. We load the back full a lot and the hight adj. rear suspension would be very handy.
We miss the space in the back of the sequoia so figure out your needs carefully.
I dont know if you need them but the 3rd row seats were awesome.
Cheers steve d
FYI the tri star was hated by flight crew cause it flew 4 degrees down in the [non-permissible content removed] end and the f/a s always complained about pushing the trollies uphill. Then there's the elevator to the front galley that was great until they started to see ghosts after Delta put one into the everglades.
Good story if you want to read " the ghost of flight DL401"
And is it possible to turn off the automatic re-locking after 30 seconds (if you unlock the vehicle and don't open any doors, it'll re-lock itself in 30 seconds). OTH it would be really funny if these instructions are in the manual... he swears he read it.
Thanks in advance,
Tomek
I'll go for the V8 Sport with X-REAS.
Now, I'm trying to decide between an 03-04 4Runner and I'm sure your help guys will be helpful again.
Is it true that 04 will offer third row seats?
Could we expect a higher invoice price?
When is it suppossed to be in the dealeships?
I just came to this country and as you guys can imagine, I don't have credit history yet, so, they'll try to kill me with an awful APR. That's why I'll try to counteract those vipers with a nice downpayment, let's say 60% of the invoice price. Do you think I have a chance to get a decent APR in these conditions?
The 2004's will not hit dealers until September/October range. If you place an order now I believe the wait is 3-4 months. This will give you a liitle time to at least establish a little bit of credit. Go to your local bank and apply for a credit card, easy to get even without credit IF you have funds held for collateral.
Then, after you get the credit card, and if you are in need of any small items like audio/video equipment, home appliances, anything like that really, make a few purchases at major retailers and do a "90 days same as cash" payment plan. If you have a credit card, then those smaller purchases should get approved no problem. For example, if you bought a $400 TV and put $200 down, balance 90 days it would be fairly easy to get approved.
A lower interest rate as you know could save you thousands of dollars in the long run, so well worth the effort to try and establish some credit. This may not guarantee that you get the lowest rate available at the dealer, but at least if they run a report and there are a few listings that would be better than having them see a blank page with no history at all.
Steve, Host
Cheers steve d
I've been reading about this on this site forever now but never really figured it out. Think I have it down pat now so here's my 2 cents.
I have a 03 4runner sport . Came with tow package,as all do I think. Book says 5000 lbs capacity. Book says 7200 lbs with "weight distributation hitch." This is also listed on the canadain web site as an accessory for 250.00 cad. What they meant to say was the tow hitch receiver is 250.00 if you don't already have one bolted on, AND if you buy an after market Weight Distributation Hitch ,then you can pull 7200. Toyota does not make this Weight distributation hitch. For those who do not know this hitch is different from a anti sway device which can also be added if needed, but what it does is attach to the front of a trailer and to the ball of a hitch.Then you the adjust a tensioner which raises both the rear of the vehicle and the trailer. 2 things now happen . 1 your truck is level and 2 the weight of the trailer is more centered on is own wheels reducing the tongue weight on the trailer there fore enabling the truck to tow more ie the quoted 7200 lbs. These devises can be bought an any hitch shop which generally know all about them , ie. nothing new here, and in Canada sell for 250.00 to 500.00 depending on type. (I'm guessing 200.00 to 350.00 usd for most of you.)
OK. so my concern is I've had my trailer brakes installed and I'm lying on the floor of the hitch shop looking up at my hitch reciever with a mechanic who has been doing hitches for 20 years or so. We see in 03 Toyota has now made to frame to extend to the rear of the vehicle so the hitch reciever now is just a small part about 9 inches wide that bolts on to the rear frame crossbar.
It is attached by 2 torque rated bolts only. Not 4 or 6 but 2. So I'm thinking I hope those are 2 really expensive bolts. After all wide body jetliners have engines attached by 3 really expensive bolts so why am I concerened? Well I'am concerend so I call Toyota and they say all O.K.
I ask the hitch guy and he says Dodge trucks have gone to same system and they use either 4 or 6 bolts and have a 11000 lbs apx rating. So I feel a little better but am not there yet.
Any one pls feel free to add to this specically about those two little silver bolts. And of course to correct me If I've got it wrong.
cheers steve d
FYI there is no part that Toyota sells that bolts onto hitch to make it stronger. There is no alternate hitch installed on later model 03 s to make the towing different. The tube type hitches that wraped around the spare were for the 02 models and cannot be added as an enhancement to 03 s. Also I'm sure someone will ask, the load leveling of the LTD does not accomplish the same thing as the wieght distributation hitch.
About that- they will probably be jumpseats that fold off to the side and basically useless.
I believe the reason suv's are adding the 3rd row- even on vehicles like the 4Runner is for the possible tax credit.
In California, there is a bill going around (maybe this is for the entire nation) that will give commercial businesses tax breaks on SUV's - but only if they can carry 7 or more people.