Nobody really knows whether the funding has been used up or not. That appears to be the problem. NHTSA developed the procedures for verifying the eligibility of clunkers in pretty good detail, but couldn't get the dealers registered and the payment system organized in time.
It will take several days--maybe weeks--for the agency to process all of the pending claims. Then they'll be able to report to Congress on whether or not there's any money left. Then Congress will decide whether or not to (a) quickly approve more funds, or (b) let it die, or (c) hold hearings before deciding about more money.
Best case: it's back, with more money and better accounting procedures, in two or three weeks. Worst case: the money's gone, and Congress spends weeks on hearings, and potential customers don't buy because they think the program might be back in a few months, and dealers start dying off because they lack the liquidity to withstand the waiting period.
my dealer just called and has no clue what's going to happen or if any of his deals will go through. he claims they have been sent to corporate but has no idea the status from there. he says all the clunkers are still on the lot and will not be sent out until they find out what's going on. they are no longer processing any more deals... i heard there will be a press conference tonight...
If your new vehicle is 4MPG over your old clunker, you receive $3,500. If it is at least 10MPG, you receive $4,500. How do they determine what amount you will get deducted if your new vehicle averages 6 or 7, 8, or 9 mpg over your old vehicle's mpg?
I just did my transaction today in NJ, and the dealer told me that I was the 42nd so far in their dealership (just the first week), so some other dealers might get ....zero? wondering......?
I think it goes without saying that some dealers sell more cars, period, than others do. So it makes sense that there will be some dealers with 60, 80, even 100 clunker deals in the pipeline already, while others may have done only a handful.
As disappointed as I am that I won't be swapping my old truck for a new car tomorrow, I'm very, very grateful that I am no longer in the car business. C4C has been very profitable, if they get paid for all the deals that qualify, but it has also been a giant headache, and the lack of accounting rigor has created a great deal of uncertainty.
Any dealer that went in with both feet could conceivably be facing a business-killing delay in receiving payments. I wouldn't be surprised to see some dealers opt out when/if the program is reactivated.
I suspect some of the car companies (especially the likes of Toyota which has money and most models qualify) will provide bridge loans to dealers, so dealers get their C4C money quicker, and Toyota stands to make some handsome profits (something like 10% interest). Of course this means the lender (like a Toyota) will have to review and approve every C4C transaction (the trades and the new vehicles).
If the manufacturers do offer bridge financing, they'll be selective about it. At $4500 per transaction, we're talking about major cash. I think Hyundai and Chrysler have the most invested in their promotional activities connected to C4C.
That puts my local Chrysler-Hyundai-Mazda dealer very much on the bubble right now.
I think 8/03/2009 is a very optimistic date. The last time a federal bureaucracy moved that quickly on something of this size was the implementation of the Emergency Banking Act of 1933 (FDR's so-called Bank Holiday, when federal auditors audited the resources of every single bank in the US in a four-day period, by hand).
One other thing: I doubt there are 2.5 million units in stock that could be moved by Labor Day. Something on that scale would lead to massive inflation.
A White House official said the Obama administration is assessing the situation, but added that "auto dealers and consumers should have confidence that all valid ... transactions that have taken place to-date will be honored."
Just doing the arithmetic, i knew it wasn't going to last more that a few days, I was prepared to buy tomorrow even if I could not get the best deal. I had my eye on a Jeep Compass with chrysler 3500 incentive and Cash for Clunkers it would have been a sweet deal, and by the way I think the incentive runs out tomorrow too...
Does anyone know if Maryland charges state sales taxes on the $4500 plus salvage value. I got in earlier this week, and the dealer really didn't know, but insisted on charging the tax. Thanks
Did not get rid of my clunker this week; I just couldn't get the car I want (Camero LS or LT). Realized my clunker (a minivan) may not be worth much ($1.5K), but costs me nothing except liability insurance (plus occasional maintenance) to keep. So going to keep it for good for those occasional Home Depot/airport runs.
Since C4C is gone for now, I can just imagine how desperate dealers must be (after all they were so psyched about this), and how little cars would be sold while people wait for C4C to return. With 2010 coming out (and 2009/2008 needing to clear out), can't wait to see what kind of deals this uncertain time will bring.
I am being optimistic with the 08/03/09 date. If they can get it running by mid-August it will be fine.
I do think that 2.5 million units (that qualify) can be made available by early September though. Most dealers and automakers are flooded with unsold 2008s and 2009s. With the low sales in the first 6 months of '09, inventory should not be a problem.
Why do you think inflation would come into play at all? Seems like a drop in the bucket really.
Well unless congress does something tomorrow this program won't start back up until after September 8th. Congress gets the next 5 weeks off. So I'm pretty sure CFC will be done until AFTER labor day with the suspension.
Why do you think inflation would come into play at all? Seems like a drop in the bucket really.
I should've been more clear. I didn't mean to suggest that overall currency inflation would run rampant. But I do think that funding the program at 10x the original amount would lead to shortages of many models, and dealers would respond by raising the effective transaction prices on those models through "ADM," "Market Adjustment," etc.
Most likely targets for that kind of behavior would be recently revised or all-new designs where production is site-limited. The Prius and Fit would be affected, but so would the 2010 Fusion, the Malibu with the six-speed automatic, the Kia Soul, various Minis, any VW TDI, and maybe the RAV4 and Venza. Not to mention the V6 Camaro. . .
So I'm pretty sure CFC will be done until AFTER labor day with the suspension.
Bingo, Pelosi and crew will not give up their vacation for Obama Health care. They sure are not worried about the C4C program. If Congressional leaders suspended it, then look for a long wait. If the NHTSA or DOT suspended, it could be back up when they get their ducks in a row.
I was all set to take delivery of a car tomorrow. I gave the dealer a deposit last Friday, before noon. I knew this would happen and I kept calling the dealer to get him to move faster.
I will now get my deposit back and move on to a faster dealer down the road.
Now the political angle. As soon as I heard about this I knew they would "blank" it up. Except for the Coast Guard and some of the military, government is incompetent at best, totally corrupt otherwise. And they want to control health care?
The revolution is coming to a street near you and a lot sooner then you think!
hundreds of people fill their stores and therefore, the Sales Mgr would like to take back the car from me and CASH in on those folks who will be quoted with higher sticker prices. What a shame! If anyone knows where I can report this kind of unfair practice of this dealership- pls let me know.
I understand you think your not getting treated fairly.... But the "market" regulates everything..... Markets go up and markets go down..... plain simple. Now I somehow believe the dealer would keep his pricing the same.... one because he knew long before the 24th how the program was going to be "challenging"....
The real problem is you don't have a title in hand.... I understand it is a cruel world, but as people have mentioned showrooms are filling up.... the real problem is since you don't have a title there is really nothing to talk about. the program will end before you can get a dup. I can olny imagine he would offer the original deal a few days before the C4C date of 24th.....
I totally agree. But what about someone in my situation? I did my CFC purchase on the 25th, and my clunker's data was updated again on the 26th. The dealer doesn't seem to be making any effort to get my deal pushed through, he wants the new car back. I'm not doing anything right now.
LMAO.... Wow you crack me up..... What you don't understand is that the rules have been changing everyday..... I can assure you, is this improving sales? Yes but it is the busiet time of the year to begin with..... Dealer not making any effort to push your deal through? LOL..... The dealerships have all the pull in this situation.... This not like giving someone a free oil change, or getting someones vehicle through the service department faster by pushing someone else aside.... :confuse:
We are dealing with govt..... maybe next January your local dealer can get you some extra tax credits....
bought a hyundai ( had a program for c4c early) on the 16th, dealer gave me 4500 on the c4c and listed it on my contract as cash down. salesman calls today to tell us to come in and finish paperwork because they did not have it when we bought the car, I have been reading about the changes in mpg on cars and looked my old car and new car up on the cars sight, the car I bought does not qualify for the c4c program (20mpg). Now what do I do? Dealer is expecting us to come in for cars paperwork, surly the dealer knows that the car does not qualify?
They also charge me Sales tax in GA. I can forgive one mistake but these two together amount to over $500. Your opinions please.
I can only assume you don't live in GA. because you sound amazed that they charged you GA. tax..... Also I am sure the dealer will correct the paper work if they are smart because if they get caught making any errors on the paper work they will not get paid the $4500 and stand a chance of a $15,000 fine..... Right why would a dealer want to loose $19,500 over your little $500..... :surprise:
We got a heads-up from our district rep at Toyota to finalize everything and have all docs dated by midnight 7-30 just to be safe. Then make sure all orders are entered tomorrow in the system.
We had a number of orders booked with deposits where the customers were coming in on the weekend with all their docs to complete the deals. We called them all to rush in 2nite to get contracted by midnight.
Only 2 did. It's a huge bump in sales. It's a huge headache. It's a huge risk on the part of the dealers. Hopefully it will be extended ..but $1 Billion used in what was effectively 2 weeks???? That's insane. How many people have been sitting on these oldtimers? It must be millions and millions.
As noted previously it's nearly universal that all the ones taking advantage of the program are better than well-off with all their paperwork in order and a very sound understanding of what the program is about. I must say that it says a lot for the innate level of intelligence in a large segment of the population.
Very few whiners btw. Just solid people with a good handle on their finances and on their lives.
I was all set to take delivery of a car tomorrow. I gave the dealer a deposit last Friday, before noon. I knew this would happen and I kept calling the dealer to get him to move faster.
I will now get my deposit back and move on to a faster dealer down the road.
I promise it is not the dealer!!!! If you go down the road you risk the chance of loosing the program.... If the dealer doesn't go by the rules they will be out more money than they earned..,.. but you sound like you know what you are talking about
Just solid people with a good handle on their finances and on their lives.
Conservative Republicans more than likely. :shades: We all have a couple old vehicles that we keep licensed and registered to loan out to family when they are in town. I considered using my 99 Ranger. My wife would not even consider it for her 1990 LS400. It is worth a lot more than $4500 to her.
Did my Clunkers deal on Tuesday, and overall very happy with the price and the service I got from the sales person and the finance guy. However, when I asked them about the scrap value today, the general manager said that there is nothing to give to customers. He said he gets $200 per scrapped clunker, but his cost is higher than that, and therefore he will not give anything to the customer. Seems to me like this is a blatant violation of the C4C rules. Should I press them harder on this?
" require dealers to disclose to the person trading in an eligible trade-in vehicle the best estimate of the scrappage value of such vehicle and to permit the dealer to retain $50 of any amounts paid to the dealer for scrappage of the automobile as payment for any administrative costs to the dealer associated with participation in the Program;"
It would seem that if the law specifies that a dealer can retain a set portion of the scrappage proceeds then it follows that he/she may not retain the rest. Am I missing something here?
It seems people are getting around $0-$150 for their clunkers. I myself got $0, I spoke to a couple people at the dealership but didn't push very hard at all. I don't think it's a blatant violation of the rules, they only state that the dealer is entitled to the first $50. That seems like the rest is up for negotiation. I dunno, I gave up on that part of the deal, I would have loved to get another $100 off, but I'm still happy with how things turned out.
If you've already got your C4C money and your new car from your dealer, they are the one who is taking a lot of risk right now. And it sounds like the C4C filing process has been nothing but frustrating. If I were you, I would give them a break. And it's probably true that with the amount of the time they had to put in to file each application, the cost (think human hours) of participating in this program is more than the scrap value even if the program has attracted a few more customers for them.
He only has to disclose the scrappage value to the customer.
Yes, that's what the law says but I'm confused about the stipulation stating the dealer can retain $50 for administrative costs. Why not simply state that the dealer keeps all the proceeds from scrappage and be done with it? Perhaps it's a tax thing - like administrative fees aren't taxable while the rest of the scrappage fee is?
This was only meant for the well off or medium class but guess what the cars hurting the economy and etc is the low income. I went in and they told me that i made 200$ less per month then allowed but yet my rent is 400$ less then those who have the required income. My vehicle is only getting 8miles to the gallon and i went to exchange towards vehicle that got 27mpg. I can go get a used vehicle in which i would owe 7000 and pay 350 per month but I am not eligible for a car that i owe 7000 on and pay 200 a month that wont break down and that has warranty and great gas mileage. Only those who could probably afford it without that extra umph someone who can get the deposit other ways that probably has a couple vehicles but lets not help those that need it that cant get the deposit that have only one vehicle. Come on lets get those that have low income or at least go by how much money left after bills paid not before. The rich get richer the poor get poorer and before commenting on this take into account that if you were poor how would you feel and no i'm not poor because i am uneducated, I went to college raising 3 kids by myself and got a 3.78 accumalative gpa but I got in a bad car accident in Alaska when some female hit me and now i cant hardly move and am in severe pain stricken with reflex sympathetic dystrophy. Not everyone is in the boat they are in because they ate stupid or choose to be. We deserve the same as all. heck my income has been in the same 600$ bracket for over 10yrs we have not even gotten a raise with economy. We are so far below poverty we can look up and see the bottom. I am still taising 2 lids and my combined household income is below the poverty level of a 1 person poverty household income and there are 3 of us.
You're right. That's just not fair. Unfortunately, the CARS law does not have provisions for financing by those of very limited means. It's too bad because it could have served the purpose of the legislation by further reducing greenhouse emissions. Perhaps writing your representatives in Congress would encourage them to broaden the scope of legislation should they ever consider a CARS II.
In the meantime, we're stuck with the current situation. Good luck!
Comments
It will take several days--maybe weeks--for the agency to process all of the pending claims. Then they'll be able to report to Congress on whether or not there's any money left. Then Congress will decide whether or not to (a) quickly approve more funds, or (b) let it die, or (c) hold hearings before deciding about more money.
Best case: it's back, with more money and better accounting procedures, in two or three weeks. Worst case: the money's gone, and Congress spends weeks on hearings, and potential customers don't buy because they think the program might be back in a few months, and dealers start dying off because they lack the liquidity to withstand the waiting period.
If the program is reactivated, that is. . .
As disappointed as I am that I won't be swapping my old truck for a new car tomorrow, I'm very, very grateful that I am no longer in the car business. C4C has been very profitable, if they get paid for all the deals that qualify, but it has also been a giant headache, and the lack of accounting rigor has created a great deal of uncertainty.
Any dealer that went in with both feet could conceivably be facing a business-killing delay in receiving payments. I wouldn't be surprised to see some dealers opt out when/if the program is reactivated.
That puts my local Chrysler-Hyundai-Mazda dealer very much on the bubble right now.
I say do it! Get it up and running by Monday, 08/03/2009!
One other thing: I doubt there are 2.5 million units in stock that could be moved by Labor Day. Something on that scale would lead to massive inflation.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/30/autos/cash_for_clunkers_suspended/index.htm?cnn=- yes
Thanks
Since C4C is gone for now, I can just imagine how desperate dealers must be (after all they were so psyched about this), and how little cars would be sold while people wait for C4C to return. With 2010 coming out (and 2009/2008 needing to clear out), can't wait to see what kind of deals this uncertain time will bring.
I do think that 2.5 million units (that qualify) can be made available by early September though. Most dealers and automakers are flooded with unsold 2008s and 2009s. With the low sales in the first 6 months of '09, inventory should not be a problem.
Why do you think inflation would come into play at all? Seems like a drop in the bucket really.
I should've been more clear. I didn't mean to suggest that overall currency inflation would run rampant. But I do think that funding the program at 10x the original amount would lead to shortages of many models, and dealers would respond by raising the effective transaction prices on those models through "ADM," "Market Adjustment," etc.
Most likely targets for that kind of behavior would be recently revised or all-new designs where production is site-limited. The Prius and Fit would be affected, but so would the 2010 Fusion, the Malibu with the six-speed automatic, the Kia Soul, various Minis, any VW TDI, and maybe the RAV4 and Venza. Not to mention the V6 Camaro. . .
Bingo, Pelosi and crew will not give up their vacation for Obama Health care. They sure are not worried about the C4C program. If Congressional leaders suspended it, then look for a long wait. If the NHTSA or DOT suspended, it could be back up when they get their ducks in a row.
LMAO...... Thanks BR
GP
I will now get my deposit back and move on to a faster dealer down the road.
Now the political angle. As soon as I heard about this I knew they would "blank" it up. Except for the Coast Guard and some of the military, government is incompetent at best, totally corrupt otherwise. And they want to control health care?
The revolution is coming to a street near you and a lot sooner then you think!
I understand you think your not getting treated fairly.... But the "market" regulates everything..... Markets go up and markets go down..... plain simple. Now I somehow believe the dealer would keep his pricing the same.... one because he knew long before the 24th how the program was going to be "challenging"....
The real problem is you don't have a title in hand.... I understand it is a cruel world, but as people have mentioned showrooms are filling up.... the real problem is since you don't have a title there is really nothing to talk about. the program will end before you can get a dup. I can olny imagine he would offer the original deal a few days before the C4C date of 24th.....
GP
LMAO.... Wow you crack me up..... What you don't understand is that the rules have been changing everyday..... I can assure you, is this improving sales? Yes but it is the busiet time of the year to begin with..... Dealer not making any effort to push your deal through? LOL..... The dealerships have all the pull in this situation.... This not like giving someone a free oil change, or getting someones vehicle through the service department faster by pushing someone else aside.... :confuse:
We are dealing with govt..... maybe next January your local dealer can get you some extra tax credits....
I can only assume you don't live in GA. because you sound amazed that they charged you GA. tax..... Also I am sure the dealer will correct the paper work if they are smart because if they get caught making any errors on the paper work they will not get paid the $4500 and stand a chance of a $15,000 fine..... Right why would a dealer want to loose $19,500 over your little $500..... :surprise:
You don't get title until all monies are collected. Nothing new to see here.
They did want I wanted = GOOD STORE
Isell you are the best.... LMAO , Only a few more days.... Is it August yet?
We had a number of orders booked with deposits where the customers were coming in on the weekend with all their docs to complete the deals. We called them all to rush in 2nite to get contracted by midnight.
Only 2 did. It's a huge bump in sales. It's a huge headache. It's a huge risk on the part of the dealers. Hopefully it will be extended ..but $1 Billion used in what was effectively 2 weeks???? That's insane. How many people have been sitting on these oldtimers? It must be millions and millions.
As noted previously it's nearly universal that all the ones taking advantage of the program are better than well-off with all their paperwork in order and a very sound understanding of what the program is about. I must say that it says a lot for the innate level of intelligence in a large segment of the population.
Very few whiners btw. Just solid people with a good handle on their finances and on their lives.
I will now get my deposit back and move on to a faster dealer down the road.
I promise it is not the dealer!!!! If you go down the road you risk the chance of loosing the program.... If the dealer doesn't go by the rules they will be out more money than they earned..,.. but you sound like you know what you are talking about
Conservative Republicans more than likely. :shades: We all have a couple old vehicles that we keep licensed and registered to loan out to family when they are in town. I considered using my 99 Ranger. My wife would not even consider it for her 1990 LS400. It is worth a lot more than $4500 to her.
Fund Balance Remaining for CARS
$779M Estimated funds remaining for all vehicles except for CAT3 Trucks.
$75M Estimated funds remaining for CAT3 Trucks.
Last update 7/30/2009 at 10am eastern time.
That is remarkable insight. It took everyone else by surprise.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
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Smart woman. Unless it's all torn up or has a quarter of a million miles on it, it's worth twice that much.
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What was your "clunker" and what shape was it in?
Most clunkers have little scrap value but there are exceptions............
" require dealers to disclose to the person trading in an
eligible trade-in vehicle the best estimate of the scrappage value
of such vehicle and to permit the dealer to retain $50 of any
amounts paid to the dealer for scrappage of the automobile as
payment for any administrative costs to the dealer associated
with participation in the Program;"
It would seem that if the law specifies that a dealer can retain a set portion of the scrappage proceeds then it follows that he/she may not retain the rest. Am I missing something here?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Yes, that's what the law says but I'm confused about the stipulation stating the dealer can retain $50 for administrative costs. Why not simply state that the dealer keeps all the proceeds from scrappage and be done with it? Perhaps it's a tax thing - like administrative fees aren't taxable while the rest of the scrappage fee is?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
In the meantime, we're stuck with the current situation. Good luck!
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper