Jeep Wrangler

mac24 · January 2004

Power feed from the parking lights? Good grief! However, it would be appropriate to take the switching feed from the parking lights, to ensure that the driving lights could only be used when other lights are on.

The best place to take a power feed is from the Power Distribution Center (PDC). It's the black box to the side of the air filter housing, and in front of the battery, containing a bunch of fuses and relays. The easiest way to pick up a connection is to unsnap the cover at the rear of the PDC and use a ring connecter to attach to the incoming feed. Make sure you fit an inline fuse directly after your connection.

tsjay · January 2004

She came in! GREAT!!!!

You rascal! You should have told us immediately, but you can be forgiven, since you were playin' with that new Jeep.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!

PICS! PICS! PICS!

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

Oh yeah, still hangin'in there on the smokin' thing. Just that one accidental puff in the last three days.

mtngal · January 2004

Congrats on Buffy! What a great name! Now you'll need to take it up to Jasper... Normally I would say that I wished I were there, but we have some snow of our own.

We had an interesting trip this morning going to the LA Auto Show. Since I'm not keen on crowds, we wanted to get there early. We left before I5 was opened (yes, the Grapevine was closed this morning) and the road down to it was like a skating rink. We watched a Mecedes spin out (he wasn't going fast) in front of us and another Wrangler going the other way have a bit of a problem getting going (he had stopped to see what the Mercedes was going to do). It sure was strange to be driving alone on a major 4 lane freeway, and my Noble Black Steed had no problems with half-worn Dueller AT tires on.

I was somewhat disappointed in the LA Auto Show this year. Most of the new cars were sports cars - they didn't have either the extended Wrangler or the diesel Liberty there. They did have the H3, which is cute, but still doesn't hold a candle (at least as far as looks go) to the Wrangler, IMHO.

drosketer · January 2004

Thanks. Sure has been great the past couple of days. I can't believe what a blast driving around the city can be. Parking is a total hoot... after the HMS Unsellable (t-bird) I constantly find myself having to take it a little easier when fitting into a spot. Let's just say I am really enjoying Buffy!

I removed the soft top (I picked the dual top option and had to remove one of them) today but had a question about the Torx screws. When I put the hard top back on I wasn't sure if there is a particular lb/ft torque I should tighten to... is there? I went with 10 and things are quiet but I'd sure hate to strip a screw this early on.

Also, I'm finding that 2nd gear likes to pop out on its own. It's rare (as in once or twice over the course of the day), but rather worrisome in that I don't want to damage anything. Any ideas on what may be causing it? Doesn't happen in any of the other gears. I'm wondering if the temperature has anything to do with it - it didn't happen on Friday after she was indoors overnight.

Andrew

tsjay · January 2004

There shouldn't be any certain torque spec that you should worry about for the screws for the hardtop. Just snug 'em up good and don't go crazy on 'em.

Don't know what to tell ya about your Jeep jumping out of second gear. I don't remember Thelma Jane ever doing that.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

willie22 · January 2004

OK, power feed I got. Switch feed, I want to run the lights independantly of the headlights, where can I get power for that?

Thanks for the help!

James

tsjay · January 2004

Just thought I should warn you guys about the hard top removal and re-installation. Unless you have one of those hoists made for the purpose, removing the hard top is a two person job. Those things weight about 140 lbs, and they are extremely awkward to handle.

Almost all of the weight is in the back, so, when you lift the top off of the Jeep, be prepared for that.

Be sure that you have disconnected the electrical wire for the rear wiper and defroster and that you have disconnected the rubber hose for the rear window washer, before you try to lift the top off.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · January 2004

I guarantee you, it ain't the Jeepers, but some people are sure trashing Turkey Bay.

I had to stop several times yesterday and pick up cans and bottles along the trails. Turkey Bay was trashier yesterday than I had seen it in a good while.

I have participated in each of the three clean up days that they have had since I started going to Turkey Bay, and the place seemed to have gotten cleaner each clean up day BEFORE we started our work. The last clean up day, you really had to go looking for trash, and when you found some, it would be an individual can or bottle here and there, and not a concentration of stuff.

I was very pleased by the way things were going until yesterday. It looks like we have taken a step backwards. Oh well, not gonna give up. If I have to spend more time picking up stuff than I spend wheelin', guess that's just the way it will have to be. I HATE LITTER! WHY DO PEOPLE DO THAT?????

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

dchristo1 · January 2004

Guy's,

I've got a knocking/rattle noise coming from under the front end of the console when initally under a load(low rpm's 800-1k). It also seems to be more noticeable on bumpy terrain.

It almost sound's like a dive shaft U joint kind of noise. I did some research and found that the transmission mounts are prone to wear out and there is also a TSB on the transfer case shift.I took my dad for a ride last night and the noise went away when we shifted into 4 wheel drive.His famous comment: "All jeeps make noise,wait till it breaks and then you'll find it"!

Here are my thoughts.

Replace tranny mount-relatively easy and inexpensive,plus it has some movement when I yank on it.

Remove front drive shaft and take for a spin-this might tell me if it could be U joints. It has some play in the front drive shaft, a good 1/2 inch rotation possible compared to the rear that has very lttle movement.

Perform the TSB on the transfer shift-also easy.

Am I on the right track? Or am I missing anything?

Any and help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

David

tsjay · January 2004

One thing to check for is to see if the exhaust pipe is possibly loose enough to be able to bang against something else under there. The way you describe the noise and the conditions that make it happen, there's a good chance that it is as simple as that. (Wouldn't it be nice, if that turns out to be all that it is?)

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

dchristo1 · January 2004

I'll check that as well. The cat is mounted very close to the area the noise is coming from. I figured I'd try to troubleshoot it before I bring it in to my B-laws shop to install the gas tank skid. I don't want to use up all my "favors" as I suspect that I will need to ask him for a few more!

Thanks again.

David

tsjay · January 2004

You might want to tell your BIL to do something to pull your tailpipe away from the Kilby skid when he installs it.

Thelma Jane clangs something awful from her tail pipe hitting the side of the Kilby skid. I'll get around to doing something about it one of these days. Maybe.

All I have tried to do so far is pry the exhaust pipe hanger further away from the Kilby, which helps for a little while, but not for long. It doesn't really bother me that much.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

mtngal · January 2004

Andrew - I don't like the sound of Buffy popping out of gear. The last time that happened to me was in a '69 Opel Kadet. I was up in Rocky Mountain National Park and by the time I got back to Denver it was popping out of most of the gears. I ended up having the tranny fork (is that what you call it?) rebuilt. That summer wasn't great for that car - I had an engine mount go in Detroit which leaked oil all over, the tranny rebuild in Denver and a new battery in Los Angeles. Definitely talk to the dealer - get a record of it even if they can't reproduce it at this time.

David - I happened to notice that you bought a '99. I have a '98. By any chance, has the exhaust manifold been changed out yet? If it were after 2000 or 2001 (I can't remember the year) I wouldn't mention it, but since yours is old enough to have the old design, I thought I might bring it up. When mine first started to go it sounded like a rattle when the engine was under load also. It gradually got louder and changed to the classic exhaust leak /no muffler sound. It would be worth checking to see if your exhaust manifold has any cracks in it, and if it is one of the new design.

mac24 · January 2004

If you want to be able to switch them totally independant of anything else, then pick up the switch feed from the same place as the power feed. Again, make sure you have an inline fuse as close to the pickup point as possible.

Also, make sure your ground return is good for both the power and switching circuits. Not just a clean connection, but use a wire that's at least the same size as on the positive side of the circuit.

dchristo1 · January 2004

Great idea.

It has the original exhaust manifold. I didn't even think to check that. I'll make sure that I inspect it as well. I was thinking of adding a Borla exhaust system,header on back. This might be good excuse to do that.

Thanks for the input!!!

David

drosketer · January 2004

Thanks all. I'll see if I can pinpoint when it happens, might help when I take her in. Hopefully nothing serious, may need somthing as simple as an adjustment... I'll mention it at the dealer tomorrow when I pick up some locking lug nuts and see what follows.

Yeah, removing the hard top was a bear. I followed the manual so had no issues with the connectors... but given the temperatures outside it all had to be done in the confines of a garage. Not much room to maneouver to say the least. Oh well, now I just need to find a place to store the soft top open (I imagine it's preferable to storing it all folded up?).

Andrew

mac24 · January 2004

New or old, high or low mileage, arctic or equator, jumping out of gear is a fault that needs to be corrected.

There could be several causes, but that's not your problem at the moment. Take it back to the dealer and get it fixed under warranty.

mac24 · January 2004

Four ratchet straps are an effective and economic solution to lift and support the top.

Use the warmth of your garage to remove the various connections and drive carefully outside. Then, with more room to maneuver, lift each side up enough to slip in a small length of 2"x1" wood. One piece behind the door opening and one piece under the rear corner on each side. You now have a 1" gap between the top and the body.

Drive carefully back into your garage and easily lift the top as necessary to hook the end of a ratchet strap where necessary.

thel · January 2004

Hello all. Well with the recent departure of my Miata I've been looking more at Wranglers. It appears that at this time, the only ones around for under $10K are all 4 cyl SE's. There are plently of sports around but the only one I've seen that was under $10k had over 93,000 miles.

I've seen a few 97-98 SE's that were asking around $8k or less.

Is the 4cyl any worse on the trails than a 6 cyl? Is the gas mileage any better with the 4 cyl? How much slower is the 4 cyl?

I hope to go out and do some test drives soon but I don't waste my or the salesman's time if I don't have to.

drosketer · January 2004

Thanks. That sounds like a great idea... looks like it's time to add another bookmark.

I'll take Buffy in tomorrow about the gear and will update once I hear something.

Andrew

drosketer · January 2004

From everything I have heard, the 4 cylinder engines do just fine on the trails and around town. Problem is with passing on the highways where the 4 cylinder may feel a little gutless. Gas mileage is apparently only marginally better.

Andrew

mac24 · January 2004

Off road, around town, or on the farm the 2.5 is adequate.

The 2.5 is considerably deficient in a comparison of both torque and horsepower.

The 2.5 and 4.0 get similar gas mileage (the 2.5 has to work harder).

I've seen many posts (and know of several people personally) who wished they'd opted for the 4.0 instead of the 2.5.

I've never seen a single post (nor am I acquainted with anyone) who wished they'd opted for the 2.5 instead of the 4.0!!!

Does that help?

:--)

mtngal · January 2004

The only thing I might add is about the mileage aspect. I don't think I would be scared off of a Sport with 93,000 miles if it had been well taken care of. I have over 114,000 miles on my odometer and the engine has been really solid (did have to replace the exhaust manifold). I'm planning on getting at least another 100,000 on the engine and don't think that is unlikely, as long as I take care of it.

David - the OEM (new design) manifold is expensive, so if you are already thinking about aftermarket, do it. The main problem with replacing the manifold is that it can be labor intensive - the bolts break easily. There was a TSB out for the '98s about the bolts (not on the manifold itself, just the bolts) - you might check that out. Good luck if that turns out to be your problem.

tsjay · January 2004

Put me down for what Andrew and Mac have just said.

Out on the trails, the 4.0 has no advantage over the 2.5, since you are just crawling along in 4 WD Lo Range anyway. Even if you are climbing, the gear reduction the T-case gives you in 4 Lo is a great equalizer, making the 2.5 plenty strong enough for the purpose.

Also, they are fine around town, as has been said.

It's out on the highway where they are not adequate in my book. This is especially true in mountainous or hilly country. The four bangers are geared lower than the 4.0 L equipped Jeeps, but this does not begin to compensate for the difference in HP and Torque.

Definitely drive one of each before making up your mind to buy an SE.

Hey, an SE is a WHOLE lot better than no Jeep! And, if highway driving isn't much of a factor, the four will do nicely.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

thel · January 2004

I do drive a lot on the highway (not much town around here to drive in anyway), but it won't be a primary vehicle so maybe I'll just drive an SE and see what I think....

mac24 · January 2004

..........so maybe I'll just drive an SE and see what I think..........

That would be the best idea. Make sure to drive a 4.0 for comparison, and as it's an early TJ you're looking for don't test drive a new SE, because the new 2.4 is a totally different engine.

bamatazz · January 2004

I use the actual hard top hoist for Wranglers.
Wast to hard to install in my garage. Make sure you have enough clearance for the back window to open. I made the big mistake of lowering it while my doors were closed. The top scratched the door frames.
  I take my hard top off in March used soft top though spring & summer, then hard top in fall & winter.
   Drokster u guys have the cold & snow.
It was 72 today in Alabama.
  Too warm for January!!

Its NFL Playoffs!! Go Titans!!

Keep Jeepin
  BAMA

twylie · January 2004

I store my soft top folded up for about 8 months out of the year. I make sure it's clean and dry before I fold it. I am carful to fold and lay the top such that there are no hard bends or creases in it. It is still a bulky item due to the soft top bows, but I can fit it easily standing up in a closet. I've done this for the last two years and no detrimental effects yet. I make sure my windows are washed and then cleaned with Novus before storing them in a dedicated window bag that hangs on the garage wall. I've kept an eye out for cheap replacement windows on some other Jeep boards and now have enough extras to begin some side projects (DIY tinted windows) and some "rainjammers" to cover the area between the door surround and the windjammer. Hopefully, I'll have those ready for springtime.

-twylie

drosketer · January 2004

You are having 72 degree weather?! That's what... about 22 C. Wow. That's a pretty decent summer day around here. We do hit the low 30's every now and then but that's about it. We had a bit of a warming trend today, daytime temperatures seemed to peak at about -0.4 F (-18 C). Plenty of snow to play in though...

Haven't had this much fun just driving around in a long, long time. Dropped in another 50 Km with Buffy today just tooling around, still grinning. No problems with the gears today either which makes me a happy man!

Andrew

drosketer · January 2004

Thanks. I wasn't sure if I should spread the top out over the winter... glad to hear that it's not necessary. I'll do it if I can find the space but this is good news!

Andrew

tsjay · January 2004

Man, sorry to hear that! Is Ellie an automatic? I can't remember, but from what you wrote in your post above, it sounds like she is.

I'm sure whatever it is, they will take care of it under warranty. Just keep us posted.

I know the worst part will be having to part with her for a day or two while she is being worked on.

Hope it all turns out well. Please keep us up to date with what's going on.

Tom

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

P.S. Just found your post describing Ellie's options, and I see that she is an auto. Good luck, Glen. They'll getcha fixed up at the dealership.

willie22 · January 2004

I got the freaking Dome lights working!!!!!! Its nice to get home after dark and have the lights come on when you get out.

I am thinking about hooking the driving lights up to the cigarette lighter (Sorry to mention that word Tom!) Whats everyone think? Will it work OK?

James

mtngal · January 2004

Oh, ouch. I hope that they'll fix her up. When the tranny went out on our old Nissan pickup (which it did 2 different times) it just stopped turning the wheels. Very strange to be driving down Sepulveda Blvd., put your foot on the accelerator and have the vehicle slow down instead of speed up. At least we weren't on the freeway...

twylie · January 2004

you should have a couple of wires behind your glove box that are available for adding accesories. The red one is always hot (once you put a fuse in an open slot in the panel - check the manual for which one), and a light blue wire for a switched power feed. In my 2001, these extra wires were tucked behind the upper left corner of the fuse panel behind the glovebox.

As Mac said, it's ok to use this wire for the trigger lead on the fog light relay, but leave the relay (and the high current wires) on the engine side of the firewall if possible.

-twylie

jacknimble · January 2004

Far being it from me to disagree with Mac (likely the most knowledgable person on the board), but I think if I was going to use a homemade lift, I would arrange it to where the straps were lifting the top of the top, not the bottom of the sides. I would think that lifting by the bottom of the sides would allow it the bottom to bow out and possibly crack the top near the top.

I use a 3 point lift that lifts only by the top of the doors and top of the rear window. Have had two jeeps with it and no problems whatsoever. The best way to go by far.

erickpl · January 2004

I have the IPF driving lights. I hooked them up with a separate relay and all wiring is in the engine area of the firewall, except for the switch I have mounted on the dash. I ran the switch power feed to the turn lights. That circuit is hot only when the ignition is in the on position. They work independently of the running lights and the headlights. I've had NO problems at all.

-Paul

erickpl · January 2004

Mac you are right. The bar runs right behind that tube I was thinking of. I removed the cover behind the bumper and saw where it is supposed to go. Did SE's come w/o them? If so, then the sway bar has been gone for a LOOOOONG time.

What vendors would you recommend for a sway bar? Mopar? Addco? Other?

-Paul

mac24 · January 2004

When the hardtop is on the Jeep it's supported on the bottom of the sides, and the top front. If you hang it from the door and tailgate openings the load is carried in entirely different places. However you've been able to demonstrate that it can be hung this way without a problem.

I know of several hardtops that have been hung from ratchet straps in the way that I described without problems. If having the sides spread was perceived to be a problem, an easy solution would be to support the top on two lengths of 2"x1" with eyebolts on the ends. The ratchet straps would engage the eyebolts, which in turn would prevent any potential sideways movement of the top. Personally, I'd rather do that than hang it from its top edges (although it works for you).

Thanks for the compliment, but I doubt that I'm the most knowlegable here.......... I just post a lot!

:--)

twylie · January 2004

Paul,

I'd say go with a MOPAR sway bar. The Addco and other "performance" bars don't make much sense on a Wrangler in my mind. Poly bushings are the easiest and cheapest route to firm up roll in a vehicle. Since the bar is only under load when cornering, ride is not noticably changed for the worse.

In your neck of the woods, I bet there are plenty of people running the Anti-rock for a front bar, and you can find a stock replacement bar for cheap or free. If you find a stock bar, let me know and I can send you my old stock end links if you decide not to do discos for now.

-twylie

PS - I too think Mac is the most knowledgeable on this board; humble as well!

jacknimble · January 2004

Mac,

At the risk of dwelling on a fine point, I considered the fact of the load when on the vehicle as well, but reasoned that a) since the bottoms are bolted to prevent flex, and b) that the sides are vertical and relatively light weight (each side), that certainly the overall design of the top is strong enough to hang from the top.

At any rate, I guess we've determined through experience that either way works fine. The hoist and rack at Quadratec is only about $140 and worth every penny.

and, yes, you are certainly humble.

mac24 · January 2004

......... you guys made me feel all warm and fuzzy!!!

erickpl · January 2004

I'm kinda thinking a MOPAR would be the easiest way to go. Since it is my daughter's Jeep and I'm not too wild about her offroading, I'll probably go with factory parts for now.

Even with stock bushings, the ride will be firmer than it is now.

I have never installed zerk fittings so going with the urethane bushings makes me nervous - if only for the notion of having to drill into them to get the zerks installed.

Gotta try it sometime though.

I'm still considering the Addco for my Grand Cherokee. It needs help on the highway.

-Paul

barresa62 · January 2004

As of yesterday, 1/4, I've had my Sport for exactly one year. Somehow, I've managed to put a bit over 19k on it! No problems or regrets.

We are due for a fairly heavy snowfall (for us at least) tonight and/or tomorrow AM. Looking forward to some snow time.

Jeep grins in Seattle,
Stephen

erickpl · January 2004

I wish I could get by with only 19,000 miles on a car per year!

*Each* of my cars averages about 30,000 a year.

-Paul

davids1 · January 2004

I somehow have lost my subscription list on the "my preferences" page. How do I get it back? Reading all my subscriptions one at a time is tedious.

thanks

twylie · January 2004

the Energy Suspension bushings I used came with new sway bar mounts that already had the jerks installed. No need to drill/tap them; they just replaced the factory bushings and brackets.

-twylie

erickpl · January 2004

Trey,

Can you get me the contact information on where you got them with them already in there? I guess you still had to drill holes in the sway bar cover to get to the fittings. I can handle that.

If you want to email me, use the mail you sent stuff to previously, if it shouldn't be posted here.

-Paul

twylie · January 2004

I sent an email with the merchant I used, but for anyone else that is interested, these are the Energy Suspension part numbers for a TJ. Any of the online retailers should be able to match them up.

1997-03 Front Sway Bar Bushing Set (30mm) 2.5110
1997-03 Rear Sway Bar Bushing Set (16mm) 2.5111

-twylie

willie22 · January 2004

Anyone out there??

I hooked up the fog lights they work really well till I turn them off, then I blow a fuse. Any ideas??

Thanks

erickpl · January 2004

Where did you end up hooking everything up at? Can you specify where the connections are? Which fuse is blowing?

Remember, if you are using the headlight wiring, you may have problems if you are using brighter than standard bulbs.

-Paul

Jeep Wrangler

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