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Comments
Another Runaway Prius, March 8 in California
Maybe Toyota should start staging such events to occur to Chevys and Fords. We know that this can't happen to a Prius and that Rhonda Smith's Lexus testimony had to be a put-up-job since Toyota never recalled Prius or Lexus. In congress' relentless pursuit to put Toyota out of business, I just don't understand why they never asked Toyota why they weren't recalled.
Are these the techs we never heard from in the hearings in DC? So toyota found some?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Since CHP is witness Toyota will have difficulty explaining this.
Do you know if Toyota got vehicle to repair??? This vehicle would be one NHTSA should get immediately prior to anyone attempting any work on car. I do wonder if this driver allowed Toyota to take his car??
Toyota webcast executives only INFER today electronics not the problem. Wouldn't make outright declaration no problem. Then this happens couple of hours later. Same town where all this started last August - San Diego.
Well I do not, adamantly so.
The MIL system monitor should have IMMEDIATELY detected that the two systems were shorted together. What's the purpose of have two sensors for redundancy if you cannot detect that one of them has FAILED...??
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/112_1003_toyotas_intended_rebu- ttal/index.html
Heck, maybe it's a San Diego problem! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For the driver reported incidents to be sensor-caused, the pedal would have to fail and that at the same time the shifter position sensor fail and that at the same time the ignition on/off button sensor fail (and in the Prius, the brake-depressed sensor fail) since during these UA events, none of these driver inputs respond. It's not just the gas pedal. I believe all these sensors are working fine and that the ECM is in a state where it fails to respond to them. I have tried to explain this before, and with the expertise I have seen in your posts, I would have expected you to reach this conclusion before I did.
You are right. So we don't need a bunch of Toyotas with UA adding to the mayhem on the highways. Toyota needs to spend their $billions looking for the anomalies in their DBW instead of more attorneys and damage control. Every day of denial by Toyota brings more damaging evidence to the surface. Unless the Auto gods are against them. Even I find the Prius incident today somewhat coincidental. Almost made for TV.
"Who has the most hair raising Toyota UA story to tell?"
Since you seem to have great knowledge, will try to learn from you here too.
I too, agree system should have picked up the error. According to Gilbert he seemed to start with small increments as he tested. And noticed even at smaller voltages system was not picking up errors.
I haven't fully analyzed full video of Toyota Webcast today and the actul words used by Toyota spokespeople/representatives. Must go back and compare to Gilbert's study.
That is funny because CBS is news outlet Toyota released Webcast to while filming. One of first to have report up. And then one of first to have out of control Prius report too.
I vaguely remember your comments. You may be right aobut Toyot claims about how Gilbert did and reality - maybe. But I too did notice Toyota representative did leave some points totally out.
According to one report heard on news tonight, driver could not shift car into neutral or stop the vehicle, even following CHP directions. Haven't verified if further reports verify this or not. If this is true - could that affect your theory?? I recall that Mrs. Smith stated she could not shift car either, and went into all gears to no avail. If this is true aobut shifting - it could explain the many questions why an experienced CHP office who goes through frequent QA test in his line of work couldn't stop vehicle. Push button ignition could have been an issue since vehicle was a loaner, but he would have still be trained to resort to neutral.
Will be interesting if/when fruther f/u reports come out. Hope to see a CHP report, as know will see Toyota f/u..
I'm very glad for you safely skating away skating away on the thin ice of a new day after your UA incidents .
Same for that dude in the runaway Prius in San Diego yesterday.
(The CHP saved his life by doing new maneuver which may be named "the Toyota maneuver" or "the Prius Reverse-Pitt Maneuver".)
A terrified Toyota driver was forced to use a police vehicle to help stop his own runaway car after the accelerator pedal in his Prius became stuck at speeds of more than 90mph on a California highway.
James Sikes, 61, was overtaking another vehicle on a highway in San Diego yesterday when he suddenly realized that he could not control his car.
“I pushed the gas pedal to pass a car and it did something kind of funny ... it jumped and it just stuck there,” Mr Skies said, adding that he could smell the brakes burning because he was pressing the pedal so hard as the car sped out of control.
“As it was going, I was trying the brakes ... it wasn't stopping, it wasn't doing anything and it just kept speeding up.”
“The vehicles did not touch until after they came to a stop,” Pennings said.
Stay tuned for more corrections
When in the UA state, the ECM does not respond to the fact that the perfectly good pedal sensors are in the idle position. It does not respond to driver attempts to shut the engine down by pressing the Off button for any length of time. And in the Prius (that comes from the factory programmed with Brake Override), the ECM does not respond to the brake being applied. If it did, the ECM brake override logic would bring the engine to idle, and it obviously does not. Dr.Gilbert should be investigating how the ECM can get into a state where it ignores all subsequent sensor inputs and simultaneously commands the ETC to go to full throttle. Most likely that condition cannot be recreated by shorting a couple of circuits. I suspect it is a program bug in software and the real question is what triggers the logic path that encounters the bug. Once the ECM is reset at a dealer, these cars return to running fine (for an indeterminate amount of time). If the problem was caused by shorted wires, reseting the ECM would not help.
As bad as things are for Toyota, this makes things even worse.
I hope NHTSA gets the car before toyota is able to mess with it.
I saw the driver interviewed this morning on ABC and he said he would not drive that car again. He was clearly shaken. I'm waiting for someone to try to blame the driver on this one. toyota has a plethora of problems and events and it's busy putting on another horse and pony show about "look over here, these other cars will do something odd too," instead of fixing their own cars publicly.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But all the damage was already done. Prius runs away. Driver can't stop it. CHP was able to get nearby and help with emergency brake application which seemed to help slow the car and then it was able to be slowed more and more.
But there's a common thread through many of these. The car won't go into neutral. The car won't turn off the electronic pushbutton ON OFF switch. The brakes aren't effective in slowing the car despite this driver's standing on the brake pedal.
Scary.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Can we be _sure_ it's not affected? The plague of toyota acceleration seems to be spreading.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Gladly for this fellow the section of Interstate 8 he was traveling becomes very lightly traveled when you get past the Tavern exit. It was about 20 miles past there that the CHP caught up with him and used a loudspeaker to give him instructions to use his emergency brake. I would also suspect the BIG Battery was down to a very low level by then as there are steep hills he had to go up. He drove from close to sea level and was finally able to stop at about the 4000 ft mark on I8. If it had been a high powered ES350 the CHP would not have caught him before the downhill section into the desert.
It looks to me like a buyer of a Toyota should have to go through an 8 hour course in tragedy prevention before given the keys to their potential death traps. It should include UA, faulty braking and wandering steering control.
But wait. The Prius would need another switch to disable battery power as well. Maybe that button could say, "Just electrocute me instead!"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The report which I saw and I heard was frightening. My biggest fear is that one of the affect Toyota products will take off and hit my wife or me.
On a related note which I heard yesterday, Toyota factory workers had sent a two page memo to management with concerns about vehicle quality and the fact that Toyota was cutting corners in building their vehicles. The news article, which I heard on the radio, went on to say that Toyota management ignored the concerns in that memo. Who better to see potential issues than the people who assemble the vehicles. As I recall, any worker on the Saturn assembly line could stop that assembly line if he/she picked up a problem.
I am becoming convinced that turning off the ignition key may not stop the engine in a true UA situatuion.
Multiple different reports are coming out it seems. Similiar, but still some details left out. Report CHP released that officers car actually stopped auto with his own car was retracted. Video iterview - Officer was along side and over PA ws attempting to give suggestions. Officer had mentioned putting car into neutral. Did not say whether owner did or not. Saw one report owner did try.
Last advice - officer feels it was a combination of things finally got auto stopped. (1)steeper grade of freeway (2)emergency brake application (3)continue braking(officer could smell brakes of Prius). Officer did put his car in front of Prius at the end just in case auto took off again. Seems autos never touched though.
CHP and driver/owner make statement was not floor mat. Owner had checked. Owner makes claim acclerator pedal stuck and even despite trying to move pedal it stayed right where it was. Not sure what he actually means in his statement?
Two weeks ago had taken to his dealer with recall, and was told car not on list. Turned away. 2008 Prius
Owner states will not drive car again! Naturally owner is now quite upset at Toyota.
I have tried putting the car into neutral,and at slow speeds it does work,however I have never attempted that while at highway speeds,let alone at 90 MPH.
It is rather scary driving a Prius not knowing when or if it will take off out of control.People,don't buy into that floor-mat story.The floor-mats are on hooks and are not going anywhere.It's a red herring.
I think your ignition kill-switch idea is a good one, but I continue to recommend the "trade in your Toyota for a non-Toyota" solution.
SUA= Sudden Unintended Acceleration
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04-22/news/the-flip-side-of-the-perfect-prius
NHTSA should assemble a team of engineers from bmw ford and suburu as well as the southern illinois prof and whoever else toyota is slinging mud at, and then we'll see how long before the source of the problem is found!
Long term solution: Install a totally independently operating BTO, Brake/Throttle Override.
Now, understand that it would take billions more to do that (on top of the billions this has already cost Toyota). But, if it saves one life, it's worth it.
The issue here is, Toyota doesn't put the same emphasis on "loss of life" as apparently we do.
While the accidents, issues and deaths pile up, Toyota is trying to defend their stance against getting to the real problem. That's way misguided.
As was mentioned, hire Dr Gilbert. Get Ford, or Subaru, or any other company that's not suffering from the maladies Toyota and Lexus are suffering. Get it fixed.
Yeah, it will make Toyota look bad. But, what's more important? Saving lives, or looking good?
I pick saving lives.
http://www.designnews.com/article/446480-Toyota_s_Problem_Was_Unforeseeable.php
LESLIE KORNGOLD • • MARCH 9, 2010
http://www.lohud.com/article/20100309/NEWS02/3090378/-1/newsfront/Stuck-accelera- tor-sends-Toyota-Prius-into-a-wall-in-Harrison
The 56-year-old driver suffered non-life threatening injuries, acting Chief Anthony Marraccini said.
The woman was pulling out of the driveway at 3700 Purchase St. facing forward when the accelerator stuck, police said.
The car "shot" across the street smashing into a stone wall, Marraccini said.
The collision sent "some pretty big boulders" fairly far, Marraccini said.
Marraccini said the floor mat has been pretty much ruled out as a cause. The 2005 car appears to have had corrective action taken, Marraccini said. The floor mat was tied to the seat base with plastic ties.
The car has been taken to police headquarters for further analysis.
The driver was being evaluated at White Plains Hospital Center.
On Monday, a 2008 Toyota Prius was finally stopped after attaining 94mph on a California interstate due to a stuck accelerator pedal.
According to media reports, California Highway Patrol figured the car had traveled over 20 miles with the stuck pedal.
That car was stopped by throwing it into reverse, standing on the brakes and turning it off, according to media reports.
Without knowing the current causative factor(s) how would you go about "designing it out" in a new design...??
No excuse for Toyota, but any car can accelerate without warning--learn what to do!