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Comments
Can we trust Toyota statements, when they are only ones conducting investigative analysis? Would we trust any affected auto manufacturer? Unbiased professionals experts do not appear to involved/present during investigative testing process.
I am sending along this video plus a recent news report since the San Diego accident has been highly reported/mentioned for your review. Just found video of old TV News Report done at time of accident this morning. I have noticed many blogger reports differed. Hope this helps.
NOTE - THIS VEHICLE WAS A DEALERSHIP LOANER VEHICLE WHILE THEIR OWN VEHICLE WAS BEING REPAIRED. Listen again to report to verify.
CHP REPORT STATED VEHICLE WAS BURNED, FEELS CAUSE COULD BE FLOOR MATS, BUT COULD NOT RULE OUT ELECTRONIC THROTTLE SYSTEM OF DRIVE BY WIRE(COMPUTER SENSORS PART OF SYSTEM).
Below is link to You Tube news report made months ago when crash occurred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM
Below is new New York Times Article, Jan 31, 2010 - appears to pretty much same as other news media releases and safety site reports I have seen:
The 911 call came at 6:35 p.m. on Aug. 28 from a car that was speeding out of control on Highway 125 near San Diego.
The caller, a male voice, was panic-stricken: “We’re in a Lexus ... we’re going north on 125 and our accelerator is stuck ... we’re in trouble ... there’s no brakes ... we’re approaching the intersection ... hold on ... hold on and pray ... pray ...”
The call ended with the sound of a crash.
The Lexus ES 350 sedan, made by Toyota, had hit a sport utility vehicle, careened through a fence, rolled over and burst into flames. All four people inside were killed: the driver, Mark Saylor, an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer, and his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.
It was the tragedy that forced Toyota, which had received more than 2,000 complaints of unintended acceleration, to step up its own inquiry, after going through multiple government investigations since 2002.
Yet only last week did the company finally appear to come to terms with the scope of the problem — after expanding a series of recalls to cover millions of vehicles around the world, incalculable damage to its once-stellar reputation for quality and calls for Congressional hearings.
With prodding from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Toyota halted production and sales of eight models, including its top-selling Camry sedan.
And late last week, the government allowed the company to go ahead to try yet another new fix for its vehicles, which it is expected to announce on Monday.
At almost every step that led to its current predicament, Toyota underestimated the severity of the sudden-acceleration problem affecting its most popular cars. It went from discounting early reports of problems to overconfidently announcing diagnoses and insufficient fixes.
_________________
Toyota is not only manufacturer that has problems. These other manufacturers are being very quiet it seems. Wish news media would also report the other manufacturers that seem to rise above all the other auto manufacturers in analysis graph comparing manufacturers over the last ten years.
Good luck everyone.
And that TampaBay newspaper article was enlightening.
"Traffic investigators did note that they found two floor mats each on the driver and passenger side of the Camry. One was the original factory floor mat and another a hard plastic floor mat, cut to fit, and placed on top of the factory floor mat, part of which was covering the accelerator pedal."
How is this Toyota's fault? Should they give a test to the buyer before selling a car?
John
This thing has taken on a life of it's own.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
Video demonstration of what you just said.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
Steve....still not getting how the shim "fix" supposedly makes the accelerator pedal safer, since so many have reported even pulling the pedal with their foot, still didn't stop the acceleration.
It's my hope and prayer that Toyota has finally found the correct cause, and the correct fix. I just can't see where they have.
They say "no", it's not an electrical and/or software/firmware issue. Yet, all the evidence points to that.
After seeing the video with the guy testing floormats, and the strength of the accelerator spring, I don't see how Toyota can make any reasonable claim that it's floormats, in any configuration.
Yes, but that doesn't mean, in the end, that the gearbox will disenage from the current gear ratio. The engine/transaxle controlling ECU may not be monitoring the shifter's position switches.
The spring release drum type clutches within the transaxle may not release due to the HEAVY torque loading. The engine is ROARING at WOT while at the same time you have both feet and all the energy you can muster on the brake pedal. This effect might even be unique to FWD and F/awd vehicles.
Try to slip a manual transmission out of gear not using the clutch with a heavy torque loading on the gearbox. Pretty damn difficult...!
On the other hand with no torque loading the gearbox easily slips out of the current gear.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/cars/safety/how-to-stop-your-car-du- ring-sudden-acceleration/17188412001/48234862001/
well, you proved my point: only an incompetent driver will pump his/her brakes in this situation.
Maybe that's Darwinism at its best?
1. It seems that most of the "unintended acceleration" concerns are about wide open throttle. This seems to imply that a stuck throttle would automatically be "wide open", which would not be true in 99% of the situations. I would say that most driving, even on the interstate, is with no more than 1/2 throttle. If the throttle is truly sticking, dealing with a half throttle situation would be much more manageable, certainly not the life or death "wide open throttle". If the engine is going wide open on its own, that is a computer problem that will show back up after the current fixes are in place, and will probably hurt some folks before it is resolved.
2. The floor mat situation is ludicrous. If someone wants to endanger their life by stacking floor mats, or throwing beer cans or apple cores on the floorboard, Toyota should not be responsible. The original equipment floor mats, properly hooked on the hooks that are provided, will not interfere with the accelerator. You should not have to protect folks from stupid. I will not allow my Toyota dealership to grind away portions of my accelerator pedal as part of a smoke and mirrors fix.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/sudden-unintended-acceleration-sua- -analysis-2008-toyota-lexus-ford-gm.html
Below are two good videos actually showing/taking apart/ explaining electronic throttle/pedal system, etc. Reveals how computers are quite involved in acceleration. And most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes but then can be rebooted back to normal state, and no trace left of bug/glitz. Difficult to get to cause of problem. Seems auto systems do not record many malfunctions within electronics. Excellent info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHotbtd7HJA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnFp2yLBnNQ
This is fairly good article about both types of pedals. Also has article of the fix it appears. I have not validated if this is the actual fix though. Still is excellent
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- ls/
All the driving courses I was sent to with the phone company, said just the opposite. You should pump your brakes in an emergency stop to retain good control. Especially on slippery surfaces. How many of these cases were on ice or snow? Slamming on your brakes on ice is a sure way to go into a spin. I would be willing to bet I have spent as much or more time driving on ice than most of the posters. As shown by the CR video, VW has mastered the system of over riding runaway acceleration. Toyota just needs to get their act together and install it in all the DBW vehicles they have sold. If they cannot figure out how, get a hold of VW engineers.
Or one with lots of experience...
If I pressed on the brake pedal, HARD, and it didn't seem to immediately "take" then my natural reaction would be to try again. Maybe out of the experience of having master cylinder failures...
why don't we hear about those Ford accidents and unsafe Ford vehicles if they are as unsafe as the toyota?
"most of us all know how computers can get bug/glitzes "
isn't there a difference between "can get buggy" and "will get buggy"?
well, that's the difference between an experienced driver and an incompetent driver: the incompetent one will get overtaken by his "natural" reaction and end up in a ditch somewhere.
ski
Not all all. I bet it happens a hundred thousand times a day just on the morning commute in LA.
Just think about it. Trying to merge, Darwin in front of you decides to slow down on the ramp, so you have to brake hard. Then you try to merge and the Darwin in the middle lane moves over to the right, just where you wanted to merge. You jam on the brakes and then floor it once behind him to pass.
Rinse and repeat - you know how LA traffic flows go from a standstill to 50 and then everyone hits the brakes again?
Two quick stops would be equivalent to pumping.
"“My 2008 Prius accelerated almost out of control. I was merging onto an expressway when the accelerator seemed to have a life of its own and took off at an incredibly high rate of speed ”"
I might almost possibly be tempted, maybe, to buy a Prius if they would guarantee that it would go at "an incredibly high rate of speed." I have yet to see one do that.
You know, maybe Toyota drivers are just less honest about losing control of the car and they blame it on the car. Who knows, there aren't any hard facts - like with pictures and evidence and stuff. Just opinions so far from what I've seen.
Maybe more Toyotas are sold to people who think the "perfect car" will almost drive itself so they become complacent. Surely we've seen lots of folks post how disturbed they are about their perfect car being flawed.
John
http://wot.motortrend.com/6628386/recalls/toyota-to-include-brake-override-funct- ion-on-global-vehicles-by-2011/index.html
Below is good explanation/writeup about unexplained acceleration over the years. Good article for info. This site spokesman is quoted in newspapers alot.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/07/20/sudden-acceleration/
Brake override systems are flashed into auto computer system. Flashing does not take long to do. Once Toyota develops and is available, then costs would be minimal for Toyota. Owner wanting flash may pay if not a warranty covered benefit - and may cost you. Range could be from minimal-$800+.
This brake override system could be soon too????
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6165528n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0
But Brake Override System is a must!!!
Me either.
As reliable as VW's are, it probably wouldn't work when needed!
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood told The Associated Press that federal safety officials had to "wake them up" to the seriousness of the safety issues that eventually led Toyota to recall millions of popular brands like Camry and Corolla. That included a visit to Toyota's offices in Japan to convince them to take action.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6165528n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0
Is there fear the recalls will continue to grow and broaden to other Toyota models once they find the true underlining problem for the sudden accelerations?
Toyota Sales Plunge, Even Those Not In The Recall
Toyota - Suddenly Moving Forward
I was surprised that I needed to depress the button on the floor shift lever to get it out 'D'. I never thought about it and automatically press the button when going to into reverse or park. I definitely learned something.
Wozniak's 2010 Toyota Prius can unintentionally accelerate to as much as 97 mph when he uses cruise control to increase his speed, he said. Toyota and the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration haven't responded to his complaints in the past two months on what may be a software-related glitch, he said.
"It's scary when it happens," Wozniak, 59, said from San Jose. "I've had trouble getting both the government safety agency and getting Toyota to listen to me."
Apple co-founder says his Toyota accelerates unintentionally
Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.
Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!
During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident. Refer below
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100202/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_recall_lahood
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/02/business/main6167391.shtml
http://www.ctv.ca/generic/generated/static/business/article1453747.html
http://www.japantoday.com/category/business/view/us-transportation-secretary-lah- ood-says-toyota-slow-to-respond
This below is the TV News about the accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWPItpu2bM
Oh no!!!
And it must have been horrible. Pray.
"Nothing's wrong at all. In fact, I've ordered the remaining boilers be lit and we're going to be picking up even more speed." - Captain Smith of the ill-fated Titanic
Captain Smith apparently really wanted to get to NY-after all, he was retiring right after that inaugural Titanic trip to NYC. And most car accidents happen within what is it, 25 miles of our homes? :surprise:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Brake override systems are excellent last resort failsafe when bake and accelerator in conflict.
Many arguments can be made. But FACT IS THIS IS SAFETY ISSUE. HUMAN LIFE FIRST. WE ALL WANT THIS. PROBLEM IN AND OF ITSELF CREATES HIGH EXPOSURE SAFETY RISK. When evaluating safety system implementations - human error must always be factored in.
Listening to a local talk radio show this morning. The host asked for callers with Toyotas to call and give their feelings about the recalls. A local dealer called in. He said they had not had many people worried about UA. He said most of their complaints are from hybrid owners. Many trying to get them to take them back for erratic behavior. I thought that was a strange admission from a car dealer.
Time for my prediction. Who will Obama name as Toyota Czar, to whip them into submission?
Thanks for responding. Now we just have to do it if/when emergency arises. I hope we don't have this emergency.
Everyone - this is not good for Toyota. These below News Releases just hit now. I was listening to CNN - and they flashed across the screen.
Government Safety Agency Secretary Mr. LaHood publicly did interview with AP & claims Toyota stalled doing anything. US government had to fly to Japan to make them do recall. LaHood claims NHTSA doing investigation regarding electronics. CNN had statement from LaHood DHTSA is not done with Toyota. LaHood claims this is huge safety issue!!!
During interview - once again claims made auto accident San Diego off duty CHP officer and family with 911 tapes seemed to lead to final actions. I have again enclosed You Tube TV news report of accident at time of accident.
Toyota Resisted Safety Fix - Transportation Secretary Says Company Was "Safety Deaf"; It Took Official Trip to Japan to Spur Action; Fine Pending
Guess Toyota has no intent on "Taking a Pause" until they were pushed...give me break, and Toyota says they care about the customer. :confuse:
There goes the residual value on Toyotas.... :sick:
I never would have done it, without a discussion like this one.
"Toyota car owners in Cincinnati asked a judge Tuesday to force the auto maker to pay their lease and car loan payments until the company fixes a problem with sticking accelerator pedals.
In a class action lawsuit filed in Hamilton County, the car owners also criticized Toyota's planned fix for the accelerator problem and demanded the company stop selling cars until it comes up with a better solution.
Dont worry,Toyota will be back soon...Its sales will pick up from the next month onwards as they are starting production again on Feb 8th... 30 years of quality is not lost by this 1 event which may/can /maybe occur...99% of Toyota owners have no problem... And the media projects the 1% and forgets about the remaining 90 %
Sorry buddy !! Toyota failing--not gonna happen . Wishful thinking at its best !! :shades:
"It's scary when it happens," Wozniak, 59, said from San Jose. "I've had trouble getting both the government safety agency and getting Toyota to listen to me."
Wozniak made the comments after a Web log posted on the CNET News Web site reported he spoke about his Prius's cruise control at the Discovery Forum 2010 in San Francisco.
"The reason that my case is important and urgent is that it is electronic. I can cause it totally under cruise control without a foot touching the accelerator pedal," Wozniak said. "Is my software bug also some code that is in the other Priuses and related to the deadly problem?"
What weight will this carry in the heart of Prius country. It only took one celebrity to launch the Prius. Will another bring the Prius back to earth? If Toyota will snub a $billionaire that owns four Prius, no wonder an average Joe gets the treatment they get at the dealership.
Sadly this last statement doesn't go along with all the sequence of events & articles since this started. I found DHSTA claimed right from beginning they had to make Toyota to do recall. This occurred after Toyota made claim DHSTA had found no problems. DHSTA was furious and did public news media interview.
Lots of turf protection appears to now be going on. Government investigations developing/already set.
I have a headache.
MNF