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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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    popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    K, if you are talking about brake overrides being installed on new Toyota vehicles coming down the assembly lines since Dec., maybe it's true but I doubt it.

    As an 2007 Avalon owner that would be involved in any recall work such as modified gas pedals, replacement of pedal assemblies, etc., I can assure you that NOTHING has happened at the dealers. I did get a letter telling me to put the floor mats in the trunk until further notice!

    Those are the facts!
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    sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    I am a first time present owner of a Toyota, and this "out of control acceleration complaint" problem and now the recall has me researching and investigating the issues. First of all these vehiclles appear to have electronic throttle systems and appear to be connnected by a wire to the gas pedal. What complicates the problem, accleration is actually controlled by electronics. Yes, computers/computer sensors are assisting the gas pedal with acceleration. These computers/sensors actually tell what the throttle should do. We press on the pedal, and message relaye to computer sensors, etc. I am sure we are all familiar with electronics/computers/etc. today, and we do know undeniably failure can most certainly exist. So from what I have read and see in researching issue is complex, and am not sure this is all just a simple pedal issue. Many multiple unbiased experts have publicly stated same. Past history reveals many auto manufacturers installed many of these new electronic computer system features, and complaints & problems increased dramatically. And manufacturers had to perfect, take out, etc. And is to be expected. If problem is intermittant, and vehicle is running normal during test, any read outs Toyota does will not pick up anything is wrong. Only when a vehicle can be put into that problem state can computers pick problem up - MAYBE???? Toyotas do have little black recording boxes - same as airplanes do. Remember when there are airline crashes experts always want these plane's black boxes to help determine cause. Black boxes may not determine cause, but black box can tell what was happening at that time. 2001-2001 US government did pass a law on these little black boxes in autos for standards, etc.. Black boxes were to be readily available for public viewing, but an extension was given to 2012. NOW - so far only Ford, Chrysler, & ?(forget which other) have made these black boxes readily available. Toyota refuses to release information from their black boxes, even during this whole complaint process. Owners have taken vehicles in with these complaints and asked service center at Toyota to review the computer readouts. Service centers refused to allow owners to see(per reports). I am very confused here, I had an auto with a problem before where I was able to review.this data???? I asked as I was paying for the service, and I felt I was protecting myself, plus service center agreed as well. They were quite helpful, and was educational. During my research across many auto safety sites, consumer reports, etc have found Toyota has only one place here in US that can read these black boxes. My assumption is possibly Toyota service centers log into this site for readouts, etc??? Toyota acceleration complaints amount to 40% of all manufacturer complaints. Ford also has high number as well, but lower than Toyota.
    FACT:
    (1)Complaints are small compared to the number of vehicles sold.
    (2)Problems for complaints of accleration have existed for about 10 years for Toyota, with increase of complaints since electronic throttle systems installed..
    (2)Increased out of control acceleration problem HIGH RISK EXPOSURE for public- quite high for accidents which may cause great bodily harm or even death. Most brake systems cannot stop an out of control racing vehicle. But sometimes can. Let's forget well drivers should know what to do excuse. My concern is safety for owners/consumer/public. Fact is most drivers will hit brakes in emergency. Facts demontrate brakes don't always stop these problem vehicles. The value of a human life should always be everyone's main concern .
    (3)Emergency situation - yes human error may be present when dealing with this emergency - but why should they be put in this emergency situation where brakes do not work? Isn't this a nautural instinct to apply brakes? Sure it is! But wait, brakes dont' work here many times!!! Consumer Reports auto engineer auto comparison demonstration between Toyota and VW undeniably reveals to public if you only pump brakes 3-4 times whole brake system fails. Result is car continues racing out of control. Engineer also states braking system on tested Toyota vehicle does not have strong enough braking system to stop an uncontrolled increase acceleration problem vehicle.. Many people also forget old teachings put car in neutral. This mistake is only a human reaction to a difficult emergency situation. Maybe they forgot. But they do remember to brake - but brakes don't always work. Big problem!!! These all all small human errors. Why human errors were not factored into safety devices or these issues is big question I have..
    (4)Toyota presently has no brake override system installed in their vehicles. Many European, some American auto Manufacturers already have this feature for consumer safety & good PR. This is a protective mechanism system to prevent run away cars. When brake applied brakes override any computer acceleration messages.
    (5)NOW - after 10 years - November 25, 2009 Toyota announces they will install brake override sytems on all of their 2001 vehicles. Then have seen in recent announcement Toyota will install these system on some of recalled models, but not all. I have not verified this last statement, but have seen this multiple places.
    (6)Biggest issues I have had researching - Toyota has always seemed to blame it on the owners way too many times, blamed it on floor mats and then gas pedal and denied any computer problems when they have sole control of their technology printouts so no one can check validity of their claims, seem to play low profile with no immediate public announcements for reassurance to, no announcement in San Francisco Chronicle today from Toyota as they said they were going to publish information today in major newspapers(maybe I misunderstood?). Toyota has had long standing reputation for reliabily and they are presently number one auto dealer in US. I was truly hoping to see a more proactive honorable PR approach displayed by Toyota. This would have been well received and they would have been praised by news media. Public/consumers would have admired them. . .
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Since December the older vehicles that were being brought in for the original mat recall were getting the brake override added, where possible.

    If you have a new one ready to go I'd simply ask the service manager if the override was added or not. If not have it done.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    So can anyone answer the most important question...What is causing the sudden acceleration in Toyota where the pedals are not involved?

    Toyota Sudden Acceleration Recall Lawsuit

    I also found this time-line quite helpful from the same website link above...thanks to Ennis & Ennis, a law firm that seems to really know their stuff and helpful information.

    image
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    A good part of this rant is false. It too is based on the falsifications in the LA Times story. This is just another case of another brand new poster suddenly pretending to be a first time owner and ready to bash Toyota to death based on a false story and incorrect interpretation of the facts. To me it's more of a coordinated attack on the internet forums. Edmunds isn't the only site where these new posters have suddenly appeared

    Some of the statements above are factual but many are erroneous.

    This is Toyota's response to the spurious article in the LAT back in December as reported here at Edmunds.
    Toyota has a long history of building safe, reliable and high quality
    vehicles, and we are committed to the highest levels of consumer safety
    and satisfaction with our products. Toyota vehicles are carefully and
    rigorously tested, and are all engineered to meet or exceed the high
    standards set by Federal regulators.
    We cooperate fully with all investigating and regulatory agencies who
    request information and data about Toyota vehicles involved in
    accidents. Further, we always strive to provide complete and accurate
    information to our product safety regulators.
    Communications with consumers about safety recalls are strictly regulated and
    Toyota adheres to these regulations. Toyota has absolutely not minimized public
    awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles. Any suggestion to
    the contrary is wrong and borders on irresponsibility.
    We are confident that the measures we are taking
    address the root cause and will reduce the risk of pedal entrapment.
    Nonetheless, Toyota will remain vigilant in thoroughly investigating and
    taking appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are
    identified.
    With respect to the questions you have raised, here are some key facts that
    should set the record straight.
    QUESTIONS
    Q1: In 2003, Toyota engineers discovered a defect in Sienna minivans that could cause them to accelerate without driver input. The problem was corrected on the assembly line, but at least 26,000 vans had already been manufactured, according to NHTSA documents. If this is correct, why did Toyota not move to correct the problem in those vehicles immediately, and why did it wait until 2008 to inform NHTSA of the defect and until this year to recall those vehicles? Also, it appears that only around 1/6th of those 25,000 vehicles have been repaired in the recall. Why so few?
    Toyota does not agree that its engineers discovered a defect in Sienna minivans
    that could cause them to accelerate without driver input. Here are the facts: in
    April 2003, during dynamometer testing inside the Toyota factory, a hard plastic
    trim panel attached to the center console trapped the accelerator pedal. The root
    cause was a missing attachment clip.
    A safety recall was not deemed necessary because immediately following the
    incident, Toyota conducted an investigation, including checking more than 200
    vehicles in the plant and the shipping yard. No vehicle was found with a missing
    clip. In addition, there were no warranty claims or reports of a missing clip at that
    time. Toyota determined that the missing clip was an isolated incident.
    After evaluation and redesign, in June 2003, a hard plastic trim panel of a
    different shape was implemented as an additional safety measure. Based upon
    the trim panel’s design, if the attachment clip were to be missing, the trim panel’s
    increased resistance would make pedal entrapment very unlikely. The only way
    the clip will ever be missing is if the clip is not properly replaced after performing
    a repair operation which involves removal of the trim panel.
    In 2006, a sole customer complained about a pre-June 2003 trim panel
    interfering with the accelerator pedal. The report to Federal regulators of the
    complaint indicated that the owner had repairs done that involved removing the
    trim panel to access HVAC components.
    In August, 2008, Federal regulators opened an investigation. On January 14,
    2009, Toyota advised regulators that “Toyota has not determined that the
    condition is a ‘safety related defect’. Toyota agreed, however, to voluntarily
    undertake a campaign to provide owners of the older vehicles with newly
    designed trim panels. In response to Toyota’s voluntary campaign, regulators
    closed the investigation.
    As for the number of vehicles repaired, Toyota’s activities to encourage
    customers to bring their vehicles in are consistent with industry practice and
    Federal regulations. Typically, the rate of recall completion is affected by the age
    of the vehicle.
    Q2: Toyota has conducted numerous recalls related to sudden acceleration over the past decade in the U.S. and Canada, including two previous floor mat recalls. But the problem has continued. Does this mean that the previous recalls were not successful in eliminating the problems and if so, why not? In particular, why wasn’t the 2007 recall of Lexus ES and Camry floor mats effective in preventing catastrophic accidents such as the Saylor case?
    Toyota has conducted two all-weather floor mat (AWFM) recalls after receiving
    reports that if the floor mat (either by itself, or if it is placed on top of an existing
    carpeted floor mat) is not secured by the retaining hooks, the mat can move
    forward and interfere with the accelerator pedal returning to the idle position. If
    the mat is properly secured, it will not interfere with the accelerator pedal.
    As reported in the law enforcement investigation, the floor mat in the Saylor
    accident was not only improperly secured, it was incompatible and incorrect for
    the vehicle. The recall recently announced addresses the fact that incompatible
    floor mats, or multiple floor mats could be installed and that the remedy must
    address that possibility.
    Toyota has a long history of building safe, reliable and high quality
    vehicles, and we are committed to the highest levels of consumer safety
    and satisfaction with our products. Toyota vehicles are carefully and
    rigorously tested, and are all engineered to meet or exceed the high
    standards set by Federal regulators.
    We cooperate fully with all investigating and regulatory agencies who
    request information and data about Toyota vehicles involved in
    accidents. Further, we always strive to provide complete and accurate
    information to our product safety regulators.
    Communications with consumers about safety recalls are strictly regulated and
    Toyota adheres to these regulations. Toyota has absolutely not minimized public
    awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles. Any suggestion to
    the contrary is wrong and borders on irresponsibility.
    We are confident that the measures we are taking
    address the root cause and will reduce the risk of pedal entrapment.
    Nonetheless, Toyota will remain vigilant in thoroughly investigating and
    taking appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are
    identified.
    With respe
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    I am sorry you feel that way. Each of us are entitle to our own opinion. Personally, I thank the LATs for breaking this story and pushing more into the mainstream media...something Toyota was trying to avoid. In addition, the LATs isn't the only one to make these "claims". Go to google and conduct some searches...there is plenty of information out there that supports the findings from the LATs.

    By they way, you seem to have an inside scoop are what is going on with Toyota by continuing to claim Toyota as being innocent and the problem is everyone else. Or you don't happen to work for Toyota do you or are in some way associated with their PR? :shades:
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    No such statements were made by me. BTW how did you end up responding to the prior poster? Are you coordinating this campaign?

    If there is a problem then it will be identified and fixed, the CTS pedals are case in point. That's all that can be stated. My personal experience after 20 yrs of driving Toyota's without a single glitch over 700,000 miles makes me more of an expert on actual fact than a biased desk-jockey at a failing rag looking to generate readership and searching spurious reports like the one you posted just above.

    You copied that from an ambulance chaser's site of all places. Is there anything lower on the face of this earth? They and you by inclusion omitted all the facts which is typical of their ilk and now it appears the LAT too.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    I came across the following website and found it very helpful:

    Toyota Consumer Affairs

    It offers alot of actual experiences from other Toyota owners with links for problem prone areas.

    Here is another for those that don't remember the Toyota Oil Days with actual stories from actual people:

    Toyota engine seizure due to oil gel/sludge

    Here is some good information of actual experiences with the sudden accelerations:

    100 Toyota drivers filed complaints before recall

    I cannot begin to imagine how some of those drivers must have felt. Maybe Toyota needs to talk with them directly to fully understand how this impacts consumers and why they have lost confidence in Toyota.
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    sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Revit,

    Many thanks for passing along this information. I appreciate any information I can find. This has been quite a project to research for nonbiased information. My son does engineering development for street/race cars, so he too has been quite helpful. Unfortunately most of his work involves Porsche, BMW, Audi, VW, Bentley
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This is one of the best known of the ambulance chasers.

    Actually it's sole purpose is to gather 'reports' without facts and then determine if class action suits are suitable by its scum-sucking lawyer owners. Here is the 'fine print on that website....

    Are you hooked up with lawyers in some way?
    Yes, lawyers read the complaints submitted to us by consumers. On occasion, the lawyers will find something they believe could form the basis of a class action suit on behalf of consumers. If a consumer has indicated on their complaint form that they want to be contacted by a lawyer, they then research the issue and, now and then, contact the consumer and file suit on his behalf. Since our founding, hundreds of class action suits have been filed on behalf of consumers. We are not a party to those actions and do not profit from them. Nor do we keep track of each individual suit, so we're not able to provide updates.


    It's a fishnet for dissatisfied people founded by lawyers for their own profit. If you're using them as a source you're 10 yrs behind the times. They are universally villified for biased presentations in order to draw more fish into the nets.

    As an example here's what it says about GM.

    When you make as many cars as GM, you're bound to make some clunkers, as this ever-growing collection shows. Hoping to improve its image, GM has extended the warranty on its 2007 models.

    Cars

    Buick
    Chevy Cavalier
    Chevy Cobalt
    Chevy Impala
    Chevy Malibu
    Pontiac
    Trucks

    Chevy 1500 Pickup
    Chevy Blazer
    GMC Sierra
    Extreem
    GMC Yukon
    Silverado
    Suburban
    Tahoe
    General Problems

    Airbags
    Plastic Intake Manifold
    DexCool
    OnStar
    Tailgates
    Transmissions
    Windshield wipers
    Window motors
    GM Truck Spare Tire Holders



    Like other manufacturers, GM is often reluctant to publicly admit problems. Instead, it describes such things as banging engines in brand-new trucks as "perfectly normal," while secretly buying back vehicles from consumers who are assertive to retain a lawyer. It's been playing this little game lately with its full-sized pickups and SUVs.

    Then there's DexCool, the standard coolant on many new GM vehicles. The owner's manual states that this stuff lasts up to 100,000 miles. In fact, in all too many cases, the coolant turns to gunk long before then, causing serious problems that include overheating and subsequent engine failure. GM knows about the problem but so far has refused to take responsibility.


    One example:
    GM likes to portray the Chevrolet Silverado as a big, tough truck that's ready to do a day's work and then go out rock-climbing. Maybe so, but some purchasers find it's a little more delicate than that, as the complaints in this section illustrate.

    Silverado
    • Brakes
    • Engine noise
    • Fire
    • Transmission
    • Misc. complaints
    ---
    News
    • Brake Problems Plague Silverado Owners
    • GM Buys Back Some Models With Noisy Engines
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    My oh my...simply did a search and found their time-line more than anything quite helpful....geez! :confuse:
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    And incomplete and false. But like the ambulance chasers you ignored the actual facts. That's typical.

    You do know of course that the Tacoma inquiry was closed by the NHTSA because it couldn't find any causes and out of 400 complaints it could only verify 51 actual instances. I know that this doesn't fit into your biases but those are the facts from the NHTSA itself.

    The abulance chasers' timeline, and you, conveniently omitted this minor detail. Here you can look it up.
    autoblog, 400 Owners Can be Wrong
    As is usually the case when complaints of unintended acceleration are levied against a vehicle, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has concluded that no specific vehicular defects have been found in 2004-2008 Toyota Tacomas. The mid-sized truck had been under fire from over 400 owners who claimed their trucks had accelerated without them touching the gas resulting in 51 crashes and 12 injuries. According to Toyota, however, the truck features a drive-by-wire system and its computer records any event of a mismatch between the gas pedal and the engine's throttle. None of the trucks involved in accidents reported any such codes.

    The NHTSA has closed its investigation and believes that driver error is the most likely cause for the vast majority of complaints while a few could be attributed to loose floor mats.

    While the fact that the Tacoma has received so many specific complaints is worrisome, we are not big believers in unintended acceleration and tend to agree that publicity of the issue may well have attracted more erroneous claims. Debris stuck under the brake or pedals that are just closer together than some drivers are used to remain possible explanations, but could hardly be considered defects.


    Here's the NHTSA/ODI site...have a ball...www.safercar.gov
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My personal experience after 20 yrs of driving Toyota's without a single glitch over 700,000 miles makes me more of an expert on actual fact

    That makes my 46 years of owning Toyotas with a myriad of problems, more than twice as valid. You being a Toyota salesman adds to your bias. Where I have no bias. Only report the truth. All I am looking for are good vehicles. Toyota is no better than any of the others. And they have gone down hill the last several years.

    How is an attorney for the plaintiff, less credible than a salesman for the defense?

    Is there anything lower on the face of this earth?

    Many would say car salesmen are. Both like to take advantage of people in a weak moment.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Wow, out of the closet and into the.....FLAMES...!

    Your credibility is now ZERO.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    What planet have you been living on these past 5 yrs? The facts speak for themselves and as I've said numerous times before...

    In the long view, vehicles will be fixed, new pedal assemblies will be installed in new vehicles, production will resume and sales will resume.

    The owners that enjoy their experiences will continue on as before and there are at least 30 to 50 million of them in the country. Those who have deep antipathy toward Toyota are not likely to change but that's life.
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    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Whew...you need to go to paragraph school!

    It's very hard to read a post that is all jammed together like that.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    My personal experience after 20 yrs of driving Toyota's without a single glitch over 700,000 miles makes me more of an expert on actual fact

    That makes my 46 years of owning Toyotas with a myriad of problems, more than twice as valid. You being a Toyota salesman adds to your bias. Where I have no bias. Only report the truth. All I am looking for are good vehicles. Toyota is no better than any of the others. And they have gone down hill the last several years.

    How is an attorney for the plaintiff, less credible than a salesman for the defense?

    Is there anything lower on the face of this earth?

    Many would say car salesmen are. Both like to take advantage of people in a weak moment.


    Seriously! A SALESMEN telling us Toyota has done nothing wrong and everything will be just fine? Oh, now I have heard everything. LMAO :)
    Now isn't that just the problem that got all of us Toyota owners in the situation we are now???? Yeah, right! Listen to what a salesperson thinks.
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I did get a letter telling me to put the floor mats in the trunk until further notice!

    Our Camry appears to be involved in both recalls and we have yet to get anything from Toyota in the mail, not even the letter you are writing about. I figure it will get taken care of at oil change time unless the parts are not available.
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    dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    According to Toyota, however, the truck features a drive-by-wire system and its computer records any event of a mismatch between the gas pedal and the engine's throttle. None of the trucks involved in accidents reported any such codes.

    And we are just supposed to take Toyota's word on this as we all know that there is no way in h e double toothpicks are they going to share the secrets of their software codes. :mad: :sick: :lemon:
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    jofallonjofallon Member Posts: 29
    When this happened when the Toyota mechanic was driving my Camry a couple of years ago, he made no mention of any anomaly recorded in the on-board computer.

    If the software makes the mistake in the first place, it won't treat it as a problem and record it. I don't suppose they have black box recorders just yet.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The owners that enjoy their experiences will continue on as before and there are at least 30 to 50 million of them in the country. Those who have deep antipathy toward Toyota are not likely to change but that's life.

    And when you go to a dealership, especially one that sells Toyota, we now know better to only believe about 5% of that the salesperson tells you as all they are they for is to make a buck and have zero interest in the buyer's actual needs.

    I will never forget years ago when ABS was just becoming standard on vehicles and I was looking at a Toyota truck. You couldn't even find one with ABS as Toyota wasn't making them with them cause the price was already too expensive. However, this Toyota salesperson tried telling me you don't need them on a Toyota cause the brakes are so good. Need I say more... LMAO
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    that this whole thing needs some Bill Gates geek-ishly frozen type of dude to go over ta the Thai-o-ta side and offer his computer services, do ya?

    I'm seriously starting ta think that Thai-o-ta doesn't know how to and/or needs help with reading their own ECU or Accelerator Control Unit software. I'm serious. Get a much stronger grip.

    It wasn't happening before...I was trying to give Thai-o-ta every spare bit of forgiveness and empathy and second chance as they tried to solve this pup...but it's not happenin' and why would a huge worldwide automaker wait to solve anything?

    Fact is, they don't have a solve for this pup yet. Meanwhile, people are freaking out. This is the biggest automotive story of the 2000's. And maybe the 2nd biggest news story of the 2000's...after 9/11, eh? Can I get a witness here?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    mnfmnf Member Posts: 405
    Oh my now comes the Ambulance chasers this recall will put alot of money in the pockets of lawyers. Just like anything in life when something bad happens its a good time for someone to make a buck.

    MNF
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think Toyota is setting themselves up for a giant fall doing the Shimmy. They are becoming the laughing stock of the blogosphere. Too many reports of accelerating without the pedal being depressed. The shim fix will do nothing for those complaints.

    Toyota said in a statement late on Saturday that it had reviewed the pedal fix with NHTSA and was finalizing details. According to Reuters, “the remedy being readied by Toyota and its accelerator supplier, CTS Corp, involves a shim, also called a spacer that will be placed in the accelerator to keep it from sticking.”

    Also, “approved” may be too strong a word. NHTSA regulators don’t “approve” a fix (which would mean they would be responsible for it), but they can reject the approach if they consider it inadequate.

    NHTSA did not reject the approach. Our in-house teardown staff and the B&B mostly think the shim is a placebo measure.


    Toyota does the Shimmy

    The first crash attributed to SUA after the Shim install and floor mats removed will open this can of worms to a whole new level. Toyota better get it right this time or they are in for a long string of problems.
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    the clock is ticking and the news vultures are a waiting. Seriously sick story for Toyota here. :sick:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    sharonklsharonkl Member Posts: 660
    Good point - no it does appear Toyota does not like to provide all the information. Seems Toyota was fined by our government safety administration for not being truthful and withholding information from them. I forget the year, but was court case, and have actual court case document saved on my computer. Of course US government won court case. I was into a couple of auto safety sites and both had articles, names, etc containing this same fact- corporate business decision to withhold or say no problem exists. But to be fair, Toyota is not the only manufacturer that does this. During my research of this recall I also read about other auto manufacturers history of problems and their reactions dealing with complaints/ressolving.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't suppose they have black box recorders just yet.

    Toyota does have an Event Data Recorder in at least some of their vehicles. As we found out in the San Diego crash of the ES350 that killed 4 people, only Toyota can read the data. And all was destroyed by the fire. :sick:

    Toyota keeps all the evidence close to the chest. Which only adds to the speculation of a cover up. Toyota's credibility is on the rocks World wide as a result of the 9+million vehicles currently being recalled over this unintended acceleration.

    Toyota Plans Media Blitz After Stockholders Lose $21 Billion

    “They have wasted too much time without doing anything,” said Tatsuya Mizuno, director of Mizuno Credit Advisory. “Toyota used to be a company with foresight, always ready to take action, but now they have fallen very far behind the curve.”

    The company’s stock plummeted 14 percent last week, the worst five-day performance since October 2008, wiping out 1.9 trillion yen ($21 billion) in market value.

    Toyoda’s remarks contrast with press conferences by Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Panasonic Corp. where executives bowed deeply to express contrition for recalls. Toyota has caused “anxiety” in drivers and investors as top management hasn’t been more forthcoming, Mizuno said before the U.S. television appearances were announced.


    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-31/toyota-plans-media-blitz-after-stock- holders-lose-21-billion.html
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Black box recorders raise personal privacy issues. Often the courts have to rule before the data can even be read. Probably also the reason not just anyone can have access to the recordings, doube password protected.
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    dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    .........fixing the IA issue is but one of many problems facing Toyota in 2010.

    Toyota has shrugged off their quality problems for several years now. More issues are built into their current designs and forthcoming data will reveal the true magnitude of the problems facing Toyota, quality and otherwise.

    No more "chest thumping". Time to face the music and get back to square one.
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    benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    I imagine this has been talked about before, and so sorry if this is a repeat...

    ok, just read a horrifying story of a crash in the NY Times. I imagine this has been answered before--but in an ideal situation would you turn off your ignition if your accelerator stuck? Yes, you'd have reduced steering and breaking, but at least you would be accelerating? Not a good solution, I know, but in that situation--what should you do...?

    I actually own a Honda, not a Toyota, but I just want to think it through...Sometimes a split second decision can save lives...
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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    mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Hit the brake hard, use 2 feet if you have to, put the car in neutral, be ready for harder steering and braking, pull over and call someone.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    If I had listened to a couple years of reports of random unexplained acceleration causing accidents but not being given credit by the company and service reps when customers reported it
    If I had watched this display of red herring flags waved in the form of floor mats binding under poorly designed accelerator pedals
    If I had watched this then turn to an answer for a few of the symptoms in that the pedal is sticking for some esoteric physics explanation of condensation affecting pedal movement which may actually be corrosion of the axle within the brass sleeves

    And now to fix these fractions of problems that fit some of the symptoms toyota is going to put a shiim in apparently to increase the spring pressure INSTEAD of replacing my pedal assembly with a better engineered and better designed one!

    Uhhh, uhhh. NOT.

    What happens when the binding gets greater in force and the new spring pressure won't overcome the resistance friction.

    What about the people who weren't depressing the pedal and having it stick in those few cases? Many cases reported are of the car just surging from the current stopped speed or other speed. The people had not depressed the pedal and let up only to have the pedal not come up and the pedal keeps requesting higher engine speed from the computer, which may be the source of the problem.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    Problems at Toyota latest to taint Japan's corporate image

    TOKYO — Toyota is the latest Japanese corporate icon making headlines for all the wrong reasons.

    News of the automaker's massive vehicle recalls over faulty gas pedals in the United States came only days after Japan Airlines (JAL), a once-proud flag carrier saddled with billions in debt, filed for bankruptcy.

    Sony has lost its lead in consumer gadgets to the likes of Apple and has suffered quality mishaps. Honda, Japan's No. 2 automaker, is recalling 646,000 cars worldwide because of a faulty window switch.

    Taken together, Japan's stellar reputation for quality has taken a hit — just as China is about to overtake the nation as the world's No. 2 economy and rising South Korean companies compete ever more aggressively.

    What went wrong with the giant that arose from the ashes of World War II?

    The problems that confront Toyota, Sony and JAL differ, but experts say their struggles have common themes: the perils of global expansion, a tendency to embrace the status quo, and smugness bred from success or a too-big-to-fail mentality.

    "Arrogance and some complacency came into play, driven by the idea that their ranking as No. 1 producer of quality goods wasn't at risk," said Kirby Daley, chief strategist at Newedge Group, a financial-services firm in Hong Kong. The global economic crisis helped to expose weaknesses, he said. "There was nowhere to hide."

    Added to the mix for Toyota and Sony is intense competition from upstarts in South Korea, China and elsewhere in Asia.

    "They can offer products as good as Japanese at much lower cost, even though quality of Japanese products is on the decline," said Shinichi Ichikawa, chief strategist at investment bank Credit Suisse.

    Cutting costs to stay competitive while meeting growing demand, Toyota, Sony and others compromised on quality control, analysts say.

    Toyota began using the same part across a range of models — saving vast sums of money but exposing itself to the risk that even a small defect could cause global mayhem for the company.

    The automaker also faced difficulties ensuring quality as global sales expanded rapidly, reaching 8.9 million vehicles in 2008, when it displaced General Motors as the world's biggest automaker.

    The result: recalls of more than 7 million vehicles in the United States, Europe and China for problems with their accelerators and floor mats, and the suspension last week of U.S. sales and production of eight models.

    "Terrible blow"

    It's a "terrible blow" for Toyota because its identity is linked so closely to quality and the company seemed slow to recognize the problems, said Kenneth Grossberg, a Waseda University marketing professor who has lived in Japan for 16 years.

    "This is the company of zero defects," he said. "How could such a major fault get past them? It violates their operating principle."

    And more

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,670
    imid....good find. Good article. I found this, too.....

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story

    I hope everyone gets their cars fixed and no more problems arise. I just get the sneaky suspicion that there's more to this than Toyota is saying.....

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/exclusive-ttac-takes-apart-both-toyota-gas-peda- l-assemblies-denso-unit-looks-cheaper-rumored-to-be-recalled-too/
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    I notice in the article I posted above that using the same parts across many lines is mentioned as a source of their problems now.

    I recall when toyota redesigned the Avalon into its current form and based on the previous Camry, the quality of parts and build didn't look good when I browsed one at an area toyo dealer one Sunday. I recall being indignantly told off by a poster here on Edmunds that the car was NOT based on the previous Camry (Edmunds test drive had clearly said so) and that the then new Avalon did NOT SHARE any parts with the Camry (it did because I used rockauto to look up part numbers for the Camry and Avalon for many basic chassis parts, such as wheel bearings).

    The Avalon wasn't "all new." This relates to the current problem because toyota then was using parts again across model lines. If they had started engineering the accelerator pedal, activator motor on the throttle body, and computers that control this operation separately and uniquely, they might not be having to try to convince people they've now "solved" the problem.

    It looks like toyota has out-GM'd the General Motors of the previous form. Many posters who were anti-GM criticized GM in certain forums and said toyota would win.

    They are winning! --at recalls and making the same mistakes of arrogance and being staid.

    I feel very sorry for the customers who relied on old reputation from a few years back thinking they had a "perfect car" as the article alludes. I feel sorry for some of the workers at the dealership stores who need the jobs. However, I wonder if the toyota uppity-ups who will announce today their shim solution will be wearing face masks again like they did when they met the possibly disease carrying "foreigners" outside toyota headquarters in ABC New's report.

    Does anyone wonder how they actually view the North American buyer?

    toyota needs to determine, "How would Hyundai, or Ford, or even Honda handle this problem?" Those are the companies to whom they are losing sales.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    What happened to those flawless automobiles, imidazol97???? You know the perfection that only Toyota, can build???? :blush:

    -Rocky
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    >the perfection that only

    I'm waiting the announcement of the defection part fix with the shim today to verify it's only a spring enhancement. If that's all it is, the smoke and mirrors about having found at least one of the problems involved in UIA will have blown away. A rusting pin inside brass bushings being helped with a higher force is going to make the accelerator pedal harder to push. Unhappy customers because of change in feel of pedal. This is going to be good if they do anything short of replacing the whole pedal assembly.

    I wonder if the announcement will be made at the North American toyota location in Northern Kentucky outside Cincinnati?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,670
    imid....I would think it would come from Japan, since this is an international recall/campaign.

    I truly hope "the shim" is the correct fix, and it's "only" a mechanical glitch. If it's more in-depth, like an electro-mechanical issue (as many suspect), Toyota's really going to be in the global soup.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...at the Philly Auto Show. Toyota was there with its full complement of models, including those on the recall list. People were still looking at and sitting in the vehicles. There was no mention of the sudden-acceleration problems by either show attendees or the displayers. There was lighter traffic at the Toyota display compared to previous years, but it seemed attendance was down overall. Recessions will do that.
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    eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    intentionally revving-up your engine rpms against the rev limiter is ill-advised. check your owners manual for specific comments about your vehicle.
    generally it can indeed damage the engine, depending on the type of rev-limiting being done. (applying a square-wave to the ignition voltage is one approach, with as low a duty cycle as necessary to reduce the rpm well below redline.)
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    This is a bigger problem than either Audi's SUA problems back in the 1980s because they are a niche player, (even more so in the '80s) and the Ford Explorer in the 1990s because that affected only one Ford model out of many. This problem affects eight of Toyota's most popular models.
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    mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Not only that, but this affects Toyotas image of quality, Audi and Ford never had that. When there is something that affects the core reason why people buy a particular product, well for the lack of better words, it's huge.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Sad thing for Toyota is, the quality image is all they really had going for them. The cars themselves are dull as dishwater. Nobody ever says, "Man, I just gotta get one of dem hot sexy Camrys! The ladies really dig 'Yotas!" They haven't had a really hot model since the Supra.

    I was closely looking at the Toyotas at the Philly Auto show to see what the fuss was about the accelerator pedals and nothing looked amiss. There seems to be a reasonable distance from the floorpan to the pedal. The trendy gated shifters could be a problem in an emergency. Neutral would be harder to find than in a "straight-through" floor shifter or column shifter.
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    newravbuyernewravbuyer Member Posts: 1
    We bought the RAV4 2010 on Dec 31 2009 and collected the new car about 2 weeks ago. I've felt the problems on both brake and acceleration! Last Saturday, Dec 30, i tried to stop at a stop sign with about 20mph speed, but the brake didn't work! Thanks that there's no other cars at that moment! This new RAV4 2010 now became big burden and potential risk for my family! Does anybody know if I can return the car and get my money back in this situation?

    Thanks a lot!
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree that it is much bigger than the past debacle's. Though the Pinto and Corvair took a lot of flack. The Firestone/Explorer was diluted by those taking sides. This is all Toyota. And I don't believe they have recalled all the affected vehicles. Tacoma is missing from the latest list. I would suspect it is made here with the purported defective CTS throttle.
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    graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,670
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Well....it's really tough to return a new car once you sign all the paperwork and go out the dealership's driveway. You could try I suppose. No harm in asking your dealer. Worst they could say is "no". I'm guessing you won't be the only one trying to return a newly purchased Toyota vehicle.

    Unless Toyota comes out and says "hey, if you don't like our cars, return them"....something like GM is doing with their 60-day guarantee. But, I haven't heard them say that, and they probably won't.

    First thing I'd do is to contact the dealer. Tell them you seem to have a braking problem. That's a safety issue. You should get prompt attention for it.

    Also, go here.......and log your complaint....if you feel compelled.

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

    Short of that, there are specific rules that guide "lemon laws". In the back of your owner's manual you should have a procedure to do that. Follow it. Understand that you usually have to be without the use of your car for at least 30 days (i.e. it was in the shop for a total of 30 days requiring repairs). And/or, the dealership gets 3 times to fix the same problem, but couldn't.

    Those parameters may be less stringent if what you're experiencing is a safety issue.

    As you can see, lemon law is not quick, nor easy. but doable if you have a chronic problem with your car.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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    graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,670
    gagrice....I ton't think all the affected vehicles are known yet, either. I think that before all's said and done, Lexus will be affected, as well as Scion. Now, those recalls may be "silent". But, there's just too much evidence that it didn't matter who made the accelerator assemblies.....CTS or Denso, the problem seems to reside with the Toyota design, not the manufacturing of the parts.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    but in an ideal situation would you turn off your ignition if your accelerator stuck?

    How To Stop a Runaway Vehicle
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    bmgpebmgpe Member Posts: 62
    I've been reading these posts about Toyota's problems for a week or so. My conclusion is that the wide spread fear of Toyota's myriad of problems of apocolyptic
    proportions, hidden under a vail of treachery, deceit, subterfuge and conspiracy, has been caused mainly by one loose rivet.
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    lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    For want of a nail, the shoe was lost.
    For want of a shoe, the horse was lost.
    For want of a horse, the rider was lost...
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