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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The facts speak for themselves. The LAT shup up after Toyota posted it's reponse.

    The long view is that the fixes will be made, new pedals will be installed and production/sales will resume.


    Unfortunately, you are correct! However, that doesn't fix the problem that Toyota has tried to deny for over 5 years and denies there is a problem. So what is really causing the problem in Toyota vehicles remains to be seen.

    As someone else had already referenced:
    "My biggest concern is that most of the credible reports describe the incident in a way that cannot be explained by a stuck pedal. "I tapped the brake and the car took off", "I did not press down on the gas pedal", "I know my foot had hit the brake and not the gas". Since the cars computer has exclusive control over the throttle position at all times no matter what the driver does, this sounds more like a problem in the electronics. If a bug in the computer has it in la-la land, it may not be accepting any inputs from pedals or switches or anything to change the throttle. "
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    I don't think Toyota was legally required to stop selling anything.

    Until there is a proven problem, and proven to be Toyota's responsibility, I don't see that our goverment could force anything. Our government asked Toyota to with hold the products from the market and as I see it Toyota "voluntarily" agreed.

    It is/was not, clearly not, Toyota's responsibility to be certain floor mats were being properly installed or used. They suppy floor mats with the holes for the retraining hooks and the hooks. We all should know that if the optional factory floor mats are shipped with the vehicle they are installed during dealer prep.

    Insofar as I am concerned no one can say, definitively, that the sticking accelerator pedal is the primary causative factor in these run-a-way vehicle incidents. It just doesn't pass the "smell" test.

    No trying to side with Toyota, just applying logic.
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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "...it does present a balanced.."

    No.

    Until the firmware source code is revealed (FAT CHANCE..!!) and analyzed by someone of appropriate knowledge there can be no balanced and knowledgeable independent explanation.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,408
    the Government can do what ever the 'H E double hockey sticks' it wants to.
    Until recently, Toyota was not a competitor of ' Government Motors', the #1 vehicle sales corporation in the USA.
    I also see it as putting the wrong floor mat or 1 floor mat on top of another not to be an acceptable reason to have a vehicle to be unsafe to operate.
    Are correcting those 2 issues the final solution? TBD.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    >This is where toyota slapped the LAT down for fabricatin gfacts and misrepresenting...

    Must not have slapped them down very hard. Yup. toyota sure shut up the TIMES.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,4401302.story?t- rack=rss

    Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect

    Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.

    What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.

    "The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn't comport with how this sticky pedal is described," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. "We know this recall is a red herring."

    Sudden-acceleration events in Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been blamed for at least 19 fatalities and 815 vehicle crashes since 1999.

    Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.

    On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.

    Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.

    That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.

    CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.

    "The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.

    Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.

    On Jan. 21, Toyota told federal regulators that CTS pedals were susceptible to moisture and could stick, forcing the recall of 2.3 million cars and trucks. CTS acknowledged that a tiny number of pedals had a rare condition that could cause a slow return to idle position, but it denied that this condition could cause unintended acceleration and said that it knew of no accidents or injuries caused by the issue.

    Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company had no comment on CTS' statement.

    Another Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said in an e-mail that the company had identified the pedal problem as "abnormal friction in the pedal pivot mechanism" and that the automaker hoped to announce a remedy soon.

    Toyota has honored CTS three times since 2005 for the quality and efficiency of its work, citing the fact that the supplier "exceeded quality expectations" and achieved "100 percent on-time delivery and for shipping accelerator pedal modules with zero defects."

    The automaker also uses pedals supplied by Denso Corp., a Japanese company with North American headquarters in suburban Detroit, but has said those do not appear to be defective.

    However, the Times review of federal safety records shows several instances of complaints of stuck pedals on vehicles built in Japan, which Toyota has said are not subject to the recall. For example, one complaint, filed two years ago, told of a 2007 Japanese-built Camry in Maryland with a pedal that "stuck to the floor."

    A wide group of national automotive experts say there is strong evidence that a hidden electronic problem must account for at least some, if not most, of the Toyota sudden-acceleration events.

    The 19 sudden-acceleration deaths involving Toyota vehicles are more than those that have occurred in vehicles from all other automakers combined, according to figures provided to The Times by NHTSA.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Yes, in the end our goverment can do whatever the fghj it wishes to, GW proved that in spades. But in this case Toyota was asked, not "told".
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,408
    the way I have read it, it was 'told' not 'asked'.
    what have you read that leads you that conclusion?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Toyota Motor Corp. received clearance from federal regulators on a fix for the company's sticky gas pedals, three people briefed on the matter said on Saturday.

    A Department of Transportation official confirmed that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration did not object to Toyota's repair plans. Technically NHTSA's approval is not required, but Toyota would be reluctant to proceed if the government raised objections."

    Feds approve Toyota gas pedal remedy (MSNBC)

    Toyota Gas Pedal Fix Clears Regulators (Wall St. Journal version)
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    For those that still want to convince themself that Toyota took aggressive action for the sake of the consumer...Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet.

    Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so.

    Toyota was legally required to stop selling recalled models

    imageimageimage

    How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Until the firmware source code is revealed (FAT CHANCE..!!)and analyzed by someone of appropriate knowledge there can be no balanced and knowledgeable independent explanation.

    Toyota also closely guards the Event Data Recorder information. So no outside entity can determine what happened before an accident. There is still the Smoking Gun delivered to the dealer with WOT. And the driver says the pedal WAS NOT DEPRESSED with the car at full throttle. That does not sound like a pedal problem. Something beyond the throttle pedal was keeping the car at WOT.

    Why doesn't the NHTSA force Toyota to reveal the firmware for outside review? Why do they allow them to hide the information in the EDR? The 2008 Avalon that ended upside down in a pond killing 4 people was NOT floor mat related. Was it a sticking pedal? Where is the EDR data from that December 26th tragedy? 2100 accidents attributed to SUA is significant.

    The LA Times was not intimidated by the Toyota response last year.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fg-japan-toyota29-2010jan29,0,3951770.story

    The reverberations continued Friday as Toyota announced that a European recall could include up to 1.8 million cars, pushing the global total to 9 million, or nearly as many vehicles as were sold in the U.S. last year.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota30-2010jan30,0,5882035.story
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    They apparently use the CTS pedal.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Toyota to Issue a Fix for Recalled Cars
    By MICHELINE MAYNARD
    Published: January 30, 2010
    DETROIT — Toyota Motor has come up with a remedy to fix the millions of cars it recalled because their accelerator pedals could become stuck, federal officials and dealers said Saturday.

    Word of the remedy came as the French automaker Peugeot said it was recalling cars it builds with Toyota at a plant the companies operate together in the Czech Republic, widening a recall that has already affected cars in the United States, Canada, China and throughout Europe.

    Toyota presented a plan for repairing the potentially sticky pedals to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a senior official at the Transportation Department said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity.

    The safety agency is not required to approve remedies but can reject them if it thinks they will not sufficiently address defects. The agency did not reject the remedy, the Transportation official said.

    Toyota officials phoned dealers Saturday to say that a remedy was ready.

    “We got the call this morning,” said Peter Blackstock, the owner of Victory Toyota and Lexus Monterey Peninsula in Seaside, Calif. “The parts are on their way.”

    A Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said the company planned an announcement next week and would send letters to owners, but he cautioned it could take several weeks for notices to arrive. Toyota wants owners to wait for the letters before they take their cars to dealerships for repairs, he said.

    Mr. Blackstock said he expected that dealers would be sent replacement accelerator pedals, which are produced for Toyota by CTS, a parts supplier based in Elkhart, Ind.

    Separately on Saturday, the traffic safety agency said it had opened an investigation into the manufacture of the accelerator pedals.

    Last week, Toyota said it would temporary stop production and sales of eight models — as well as sales of the Pontiac Vibe, which Toyota makes on behalf of General Motors — at plants throughout the United States and Canada. The plants are scheduled to be closed for a week beginning on Monday.

    Toyota did not stop production or sales at plants in Europe because it said it had already devised and implemented a remedy there.

    The recall for accelerator pedals involves 4.1 million cars in the United States, Europe and elsewhere. Toyota has also recalled another 5.4 million cars in the United States whose accelerator pedals could get stuck on floor mats. Worldwide, the recalls affect more than 9.5 million vehicles.

    The recalls have given a black eye to Toyota, which grew to become the world’s largest automaker, and the second largest in the United States, based on a reputation for building high-quality vehicles.

    On Friday, Toyota’s chief executive, Akio Toyoda, apologized for the problem but said consumers should feel confident driving the company’s cars.

    Toyota’s competitors have tried to capitalize on the company’s troubles by offering trade-in deals to Toyota owners. But it is still unclear what effect the recalls might have on Toyota’s sales in the United States.

    Edmunds.com, a Web site that provides car-buying advice, forecast that Toyota’s market share for January would fall to a four-year low. But AutoTrader.com, which tracks consumers’ shopping habits, said consideration of Toyota brands had actually risen over the last few days.

    Mr. Blackstock, the California dealer, said he hoped repairs could be completed quickly. He said he did not think the recalls would have a lasting effect on his business, or that of Toyota.

    “If this is the worst thing that happens to us this year, it should be a pretty good year,” Mr. Blackstock said.


    Life goes on. Fixes will be installed, new pedals will be installed and sales will go on. The long view.
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    houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,328
    Sounds like 'ol revit is wanting to get some of them "reparations" to me. Maybe a free 2009 Camry. Not gonna happen revit. :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    The problem is not the pedals so once again, Toyota does not have a fix for the problem; yet another Toyota cover up.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Sounds a bit like last year when Toyota announced all was hunky dory. The next day the NHTSA slapped them down and said not all is well. This was an anonymous person with the NHTSA giving the go ahead on the pedal fix. Sure you can put in your parts. That does not mean the investigation is over. Too many unanswered questions. What about the WOT without a sticking pedal? ABC is too involved with that case to let Toyota try a fast one. I am sure Toyota would love to SHIM their way out of this mess.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Since first importing cars to the United States more than five decades ago, Toyota Motor Corp. has slowly and steadily built itself into the world's preeminent automaker, developing a strong reputation for technical expertise and reliability.

    Now two major recalls and Tuesday's decision to suspend making and selling eight models because of a safety issue put Toyota's gains at risk.

    How well the Japanese automaker responds may determine whether it can avoid the inexorable trends that eventually sent former industry leader General Motors Corp. into bankruptcy last year -- an aging customer base and a seeming inability to tackle quality issues squarely.

    Unless it can quickly identify and come up with a fix for the occasional but sometimes deadly acceleration problems that have plagued its vehicle line, there will be more formerly loyal customers, such as John Whiffen of Malibu, who will flee to other brands.

    Whiffen, a longtime Toyota fan who prized the vehicles for their feeling of safety, began having sudden-acceleration problems last spring with one of the two Highlander sport utility vehicles in the family, which also owns a Lexus.

    But his dealer downplayed the first three incidents, and Whiffen continued driving it until a fourth incident in August sent his SUV into a wall, causing $12,000 in damage.

    This week, nearly six months later, he said, the dealer's service department called to tell him the vehicle had no problems and checked out fine. For Whiffen, a retired orthopedic surgeon, it was the last straw.

    "I thought Toyota was a very good company and built good products," Whiffen said. "Now I wouldn't even consider buying a Toyota in the future. This whole event tells me that they don't value my life, and that means I should never buy another car from them."

    image
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    I was thinking exactly the same thing as you as I read revit's post just above yours. The sticking accelerator pedal may be part of the problem but like you say, what about the cases of WOT w/o the sticking gas pedal?

    Or are those accusations just something made up? Stick around to the end of our show and you'll see if these are true or did we just try and shim them in on you while your weren't looking.

    Sorry, couldn't resist the "Fact or Fiction" allegory. Thought I was watching that show for a second. :blush:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    After watching the various informative "pedal' videos, and reading posted info about several folks who probably DID NOT have a sticking pedal during excessive acceleration, I must agree with wwest. It is very inconclusive that a sticky pedal is the primary cause of all of these run-a-way incidents.

    If Toyota replaced my very smooth CTS accelerator pedal assembly tomorrow, I'm not sure I would feel any safer!

    And by the way, I ignored the Toyota letter about removing the floor mats in my 2007 Avalon. There is no way that my properly anchored, factory carpet, mats are ever going to cause a problem with the accelerator pedal.
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    the dealer's service department called to tell him the vehicle had no problems and checked out fine. For Whiffen, a retired orthopedic surgeon, it was the last straw.

    I see these technicians with all automakers as Laptop jockeys. If they cannot find an error code when they plug in and do an analysis, all is OK. And if they do it is change a module and put the car on the road. What happens when there is a failure that does not show up? Like a mechanical part that wears out? Do these cars have sensors on every mechanical device to determine a fault? It seems all too often we read complaints from owners where the dealers just blame it on the consumer. For someone with 150k trouble free miles, it is not the vehicle's fault. Even here on Edmund's we have gotten people coming in frustrated with a vehicle and the proponents of that brand will castigate the poster to where they just leave. So we never find out the outcome of their problem. Much of this is coming to a head with Toyota.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    ...is that at a point soon the fixes will arrive at the dealers service departments, new pedals will be installed in new vehicles at the plants, production will resume, sales will resume and this dust-up ( which is far less serious than Pinto, Vega, or Exploder/Firestone ) will recede into the distant past like those prior 'disasters'.

    The public that now has strong anti-Toyota sentiments now like several herein will have those sentiments reinforced and still will never set foot in a Toyota store.

    The bulk of the population that has little or no direct interest in these issues on a daily basis because it doesn't involve them will continue to have little or no interest and soon will forget about it. People still buy Fords and Ford is the current darling despite killing people all over the country with Exploders back only 10 yrs ago.

    The public that is loyal to Toyota and is having no issues will cut them some slack for one very good reason...we're all self-centered. We think about ourselves first and foremost. If drivers are not being incovenienced and have no issues at all with their vehicles then they're not likely to budge.

    Some current owners definitely will move on to new pastures. These might be considered 'grazers' since they move from maker to maker trying new opportunities.

    But as reported in most articless as well as by the NHTSA, by CTS and by Toyota the very very isolated incidences are very unlikely to impact any meaningful group of potential 'intenders' as Edmunds calls them. We being self-centered at heart look to our own experiences first and while the FLASH BANG is intense right now the long view is..... well you know what that is. But it's fun for the first group.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I too ignored the recall notice on that issue which I received on my Prius. It's stupid, the OEM mats can't come anywhere near the pedal. If service asks if I want it done at some time in the future, it's a resounding NO!

    From the late 60's there was a famous poster in a lot of college dorm rooms.

    What if They Gave a War ( recall ) and No One Came?
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,408
    show me the money!
    maybe all the pedals in question around the world were manufactured according to the specs? :surprise:
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,408
    don't they have a pill for that now? it's not the 60's anymore. :P
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    "One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small" .............zoooooooooooooom, it's 1968 again.

    'White Rabbit', Jefferson Airplane, Surrealistic Pillow 1967
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Call it a "fix" if you like, but sounds more like Toyota is just going to be giving each owner one of these when they bring their car into the dealership instead of working to find the actual problem:

    image
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    british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Lots of important parts are made of plastic.

    Like the wings on the Dreamliner right?

    I bet if we randomly checked the gas pedals on many cars made in the past five years lots of them would have plastic gas pedals.

    Plastic does not equal cheap.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,408
    well, for you it's still the 60's. ;)
    my first album :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Oh pullease, stop posting such negative opinions without any facts to back them up. I'm not defending Toyota at all, in fact, I would never buy another one, but not because of this recent flap. Are you a Honda salesman?
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    obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Are you a Honda salesman?

    I think he's just a disgruntled and disappointed Toyota owner. One of the many out there right now. Just a little more enthused with his posting.
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    gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    I would like to know how many Toyotas that were sold in Europe are affected by the gas pedal recall? Also, are the European Toyotas which are affected ALL built in the U.S.?

    It seems that ONLY the 100% Japanese built Toyotas are NOT affected by the recall. This tells me that the only vehicles which are affected are the ones which are built in the U.S. and Canada. Could it be that the quality control and the material and parts that are used to build all U.S. and Canadian Toyotas are VERY LOW QUALITY? That's what it looks like to me. :lemon:
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Including China, Toyota's global recall count for unintended-acceleration issues has now reached nearly 9.5 million — and we have yet to hear from Japan."

    Almost 2 million in Europe. But the blame has been placed on one of the two suppliers of the gas pedal - a US supplier.

    Toyota Pedal Recall Update #11: Toyota Europe Recalling up to 1.8 Million (Inside Line)
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Mikel Valviva sought to return his truck to the dealership at 9150 Airline Highway, saying he no longer wanted it because of the recall on the accelerator, Lee said.

    Matt McKay, owner of the All Star Automotive Group, said Costanza explained to Valviva on three separate occasions on Saturday that the dealership could not refund his money for the truck.

    Valviva refused the offers and tried to leave the dealership, but his gas pedal stuck, Lee said. The truck accelerated forward, striking the building, Lee said.

    McKay said he had “no comment” when asked if he believed the incident was accidental."

    Man’s truck strikes BR Toyota dealership (The Advocate)
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Toyota's version in today's paper:

    image

    "Why we've temporarily stopped some of our plants: As you may have heard, in rare cases, sticking accelerator pedals have occurred in some of our vehicles. We believe we are close to announcing an effective remedy. And we're temporary halted production at some of our North American plants to focus on vehicles we've recalled. Why have we taken this unprecedented action? Because its the right thing to do for our customers. To find out if your Toyota is affected and to get the very latest information about the recall, please visit: toyota.com"

    Now the article should have read:

    imageimage

    "Why we've temporarily stopped some of our plants: As you have heard, and seen the unfortunate deaths and injuries, sticking accelerator pedals have occurred in our vehicles. However, as of today, we still do not know the real cause of injuries and deaths as a result of our run away cars where the pedals were not even involved. We are announcing a patch for the pedal problem to clear Toyota's name in the media, but again, the pedal problem has only been observed in rare cases. And by law, we were required to halt sales for over 65% of our vehicles in North American. As for our so called "bandaid to be applied to the pedals" we are more concerned with getting our factories up and running first as it is the right thing to do, than to help our existing customers, which is why we initially decided to send the pedals solely to the factories and told the dealers you will just have to wait. Why have we taken this unprecedented action? Because its the law. Is this issue new? Of course not, we have known about the sudden acceleration problem for over 5 years. To find out if your Toyota is affected and to get the very latest information about the recall, please visit: toyota.com" and try to find the tiny link squeezed into the bottom of the screen which we hope you don't see.

    Jeeeez, another failed attempt by Toyota for trying to down play the severity of a safety issue with still no explanation of why the sudden accelerations are still occurring evening when the pedals are not involved? How many more deaths and injuries are going to have to occur before this is addressed???? :sick:
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It was bound to happen. People with buyers remorse, actually worried or strapped to car payments that are getting them down. They now have a way out with SUA. I still think blaming the pedal mechanism is premature. Though I can understand Toyota wanting to get it all behind them. This is much more complex than the Explorer/Firestone fiasco. You had two Firestone tires on a specific vehicle that was involved in 3000 accidents. The debate still goes on as to whether it was Ford or Firestone at fault.

    With Toyota it goes across their vehicle spectrum. It may be floor mats or it may be defective throttle device or it may be something in firmware. If they remove the floor mat threat and shim the throttle device and have anymore claims of SUA, the can of worms gets opened up again. Add people that may use this to get rid of a vehicle they do not want. It is much bigger than the Firestone/Explorer recall. And much more publicized with media scrambling to get readers and viewers.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    >With Toyota it goes across their vehicle spectrum.

    If their repair is actually shimming the spring within the accelerator to increase the return force (and make the pedal harder to push) is going to be laughable after they pretended to voluntarily shut down their factories (snce they can't legally sell the cars) so they could come up with replacement mechanisms.

    I don't anyone rational is buying the CTS company's being at fault. It worked for Ford blaming Firestone as well but only hadd traction for me because of Firestone's having used a single belt layer instead of two in the tread. The tire was more susceptible to deterioration with low air pressure recommended by Ford and allowed to go lower by customers in the rear.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    Why are the sudden accelerations still occurring even when the pedals are not involved? This sudden acceleration issue has been around for over 5 years now and has yet to be fixed. :sick:
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    gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I remember the Ford Firestone fiasco very well. I had a 1998 Suburban with OEM Firestone Widerness AT tires. I went into the Firestone store to try and get a free set of new tires. They told me the 16 inch were not the problem. The ironic part is those tires served me well for the 45k miles and 7 years I owned that Suburban. The OEM Dunlop AT20 tires on my Sequoia are in need of replacement at 3 years and 20k miles. Horrible noisy tires with terrible traction in our latest rain storms. They should be recalled. They are the lowest rated by Tire Rack at 5.1 of any tire in that size. They are more expensive than many higher rated tires.

    Sadly you have to get people killed to get attention from the manufacturers. In this case Dunlop.
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    imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,179
    n a report released by the Ohio State Highway Patrol, Zygmunt W. Wieckowski, 54, of Chicago, told troopers that he took his foot off the accelerator before the fatal crash on Jan. 7 but he could still hear the engine speeding up.

    Wieckowski told troopers he was the only one who drove the truck and it had never had mechanical problems previously.

    But in an interview contained in the report, Wieckowski told troopers the truck began to move side-to-side on the snow and ice-covered roads.

    “I immediately started braking little by little when I saw my truck going to the left,” he told troopers in the interview. “I shouted, ‘God, no — no accident please!’”

    An initial report released Jan. 21. shows troopers said Wieckowski was going too fast for road conditions when he lost control of the truck just south of the Plattsburg Road overpass on I-70.

    However, in the interview, Wieckowski told troopers he was driving between 40 and 45 miles per hour prior to the crash. He told troopers the truck did have cruise control, but he was not using it when the crash occurred.

    The truck crashed into a shuttle bus from the Creative Learning Workshop, which was carrying adults with developmental disabilities to their residence at Vienna Meadows on East National Road.
    Well, about one thing, but not what they want us to think.

    Some have said people would start using unexplained acceleration as an excuse for accidents they caused and implied people already had done that with UA events already documented on NHSTA, e.g.

    A Chicago trucker at fault for accident in Springfield, OH on Interstate 70 blames the engine speeding up for his going too fast on several inches of snow and hitting a mini-school bus with several mentally or physically challenged adults returning to their group car home from their work location. Approximately 5 died.

    The trucker claimed he was only going 40 mph. IF that were true, he would have been the only trucker below the 65 mph speed limit that day, or at least below 55.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/driver-in-fatal-special-needs-van-crash-says- - -truck-sped-up-by-itself-520909.html

    In a report released by the Ohio State Highway Patrol, Zygmunt W. Wieckowski, 54, of Chicago, told troopers that he took his foot off the accelerator before the fatal crash on Jan. 7 but he could still hear the engine speeding up.

    Wieckowski told troopers he was the only one who drove the truck and it had never had mechanical problems previously.

    But in an interview contained in the report, Wieckowski told troopers the truck began to move side-to-side on the snow and ice-covered roads.

    “I immediately started braking little by little when I saw my truck going to the left,” he told troopers in the interview. “I shouted, ‘God, no — no accident please!’”

    An initial report released Jan. 21. shows troopers said Wieckowski was going too fast for road conditions when he lost control of the truck just south of the Plattsburg Road overpass on I-70.

    However, in the interview, Wieckowski told troopers he was driving between 40 and 45 miles per hour prior to the crash. He told troopers the truck did have cruise control, but he was not using it when the crash occurred.

    The truck crashed into a shuttle bus from the Creative Learning Workshop, which was carrying adults with developmental disabilities to their residence at Vienna Meadows on East National Road.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    By Ken Thomas and Seth Borenstein

    Associated Press Writers

    WASHINGTON — For a century, the basic idea behind pressing the accelerator on a car has been pretty straightforward. What's going wrong with some Toyotas isn't simple.

    Experts say the sudden acceleration problem that has put the brakes on Toyota sales and production is likely not a single problem but an alignment of complicated, interconnected conditions.

    Nothing illustrates that more than the contradictory statements from the two companies involved. Toyota Motor Corp. is telling the government that it thinks a friction problem in its accelerator pedal mechanisms may make the pedal "harder to depress, slower to return or, in the worst case, mechanically stuck in a partially depressed position."

    CTS Corp., the Indiana-based supplier that makes the devices for Toyota, said in a statement Wednesday that the friction problem accounts for fewer than a dozen cases of stuck accelerators, "and in no instance did the accelerator actually become stuck in a partially depressed condition."

    If there were a simple answer, a one-thing-gone-wrong glitch with a fix, it's unlikely Toyota would be in the mess it's now in.
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    spartanman2spartanman2 Member Posts: 61
    This supposed "fix" by Toyota may not be the answer. Could Toyota be hiding a much larger problem which it is afraid to admit?

    Recent article in the LA Times.

    By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger LOS ANGELES TIMES 1/30/10

    The pedal maker denies that its products are at fault. Some independent safety experts also are skeptical of Toyota's explanations. 'We know this recall is a red herring,' one says.

    Toyota Motor Corp.'s decision to blame its widening sudden-acceleration problem on a gas pedal defect came under attack Friday, with the pedal manufacturer flatly denying that its products were at fault.

    Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.

    What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.

    Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.

    That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.

    CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.

    "The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.

    Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.
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    20vtguy20vtguy Member Posts: 7
    Whether the problem is what Toyota claims it is or not, it would make a whole lot more sense to design a retrofit kit to allow hitting the brake to override the throttle. That would guarantee that no matter what is wrong with the throttle that the braking system will stop the car. I know they say that feature will be introduced on the 2011 models but all their cars electronic throttles should have this feature. That would guarantee safety. If any of the cars with the shim kit continue to have this problem Toyota will be up [non-permissible content removed] creek. They need to do it right the first time if they want to rescue their reputation.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    This brake override system is already being installed in all possible vehicles as they're being brought in.

    If an owner is involved in either of the two recalls then the brake override function will be added to that vehicle. New models are getting it installed in the factories.
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    20vtguy20vtguy Member Posts: 7
    In addition to fix Toyota should update their engine computer software so that it would produce and store error information regarding engine RPM's and throttle position maintaining or increasing at any time while the brake is applied and the car is in gear. That way if a customer complains of unintended acceleration the dealership can simply check the computer to see if an error of that nature is stored. That would prove any unintended acceleration and also help isolate the cause.
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    popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    20, do you really think that Toyota (or any other automotive manufacturer) would agree to letting the dealer/customer see data that proves their software is causing accidents or killing people. This is information that car owners (or lawyers) will never be able to get their hands on!

    I do think that the current "unintended acceleration" problem is somehow tied to the Toyota software, and maybe will finally be corrected with a software change, but we as owners, will never know the exact scope of the fix.
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    revitrevit Member Posts: 476
    we as owners, will never know the exact scope of the fix.

    More like we as owners, will never know the exact scope of the true underlining problem.
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    lbthedawglbthedawg Member Posts: 48
    There is no over ride software being installed when your recalled Toyota is serviced.

    The new models getting that software won't get it until start of next year production.

    The "fix" involves a spacer being installed in the existing pedal.
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    20vtguy20vtguy Member Posts: 7
    If this feature is in addition to installing the throttle override system then the risk of accidents in unintended acceleration situations is down to basically nothing so therefore it job would be just like any other error code such as low oil pressure. The dealer can identify a problem and fix it. It would not only avoid accidents caused by the problem but would be able confirm a problem. Obviously since adding a feature like this to Toyotas after the fact would certainly be used as ammo in lawsuits I can understand your remark but if the accidents and injuries are avoided because of these safety additions then there is nothing to sue for so Toyota has nothing to worry about.
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    kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You're wrong. The brake override is being installed already, it began in December. Get your facts straight before posting.
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    774774 Member Posts: 101
    I hope you are right on the brake override being installed on vehicles since Dec.
    I have one ready to be delivered which was assembled in Jan sitting on the dealers lot. I was supposed to pick it up Jan 30 but the recall stopped delivery.
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