Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Leo
Well, I'd bet this means you have a 2dr Cherokee, for which the hinge problem is pretty common. Never heard of it happening on a 4dr. It is, after all, a result of having a heavy door necessary to get into the back.
leomort:
Noone will actually know how reliable it is until it gets driven around for awhile, but I would expect the Liberty's reliability to be about the same as the Grand Cherokee's, since both are original designs by Chrysler.
Bob
BBLAHA, when you become exhausted here, if you are not aware already. you might find some useful info in keeping your Cherokee alive and kicking in the North American XJ Association - NAXJA www.naxja.org
Leo
2) It was a 2 door, and I never had door problems.
3) It was an AMC/Jeep which I truly believe had better quality than the Chrysler Jeeps, unfortunately.
4) The Liberty will appeal to both soccer moms (like my wife) and folks who like to go off road - but may never do the Rubicon (like me) and will probably be a sales home run. For those hard-core off-roaders, there's still the Wrangler and the JGC.
5) The Liberty ain't perfect, but it (apparently)does a better job than anything else out there at serving the 2 markets: off-road and cute-ute at once.
6) Leo - You ain't gonna get Rav-4 reliability from a Liberty, unless a miracle happens. That said, the Rav-4 is a wimp-mobile and the Liberty is a real capable vehicle, apparently. You'll have to decide if 2 tow-truck incidents in 12 years (my experince with my Cherokee and, it turned out, the second was cause dealer fixed first with wrong part) coupled with go-anywhere hardware is worth more or less that Toyota reliability to go back/forth to the supermarket.
7) Milt721: I emailed Peter DeLorenzo re his Liberty bashing in auto-extremist. I reminded him that the Liberty is the ONLY vehicle in the class he mentioned that has a Lo-range transfer case which completely differentiates it from all the others and truly gives it the 'soul' of a Jeep (as if the grille didn't already). His reply was basically - Oh, yeah. Good point.
8)paisan: ridiculous stereotypes. And, BTW, DC will welcome both types of buyers into their showrooms. And in many cases, both will drive out with a Liberty. The hard-cases will get a Wrangler.
9) Kem1: You've got a '94 Cherokee that's taken you thru the jungles of Panama and the snow-packed muddy dirt streets of Denver for 95000 relatively trouble-free miles and you're complaining? You'll really be complaining if you try to get a Subaru or a Highlander to do the kind of driving you appear to need to do. BTW - Have any of these mechanic geniuses thought your rattle may be the catalytic converter?
10) tonysracing: You got that right. All of it.
11) Leave Yahoo to the yahoos.
- a very probable future Liberty owner. My wife loves it too
Leo
-mike
Bob
In admittedly worthless Canadian dollars, the Cherokee came in at the low $30K mark for a decently-equipped one (profitability on something that old must be *huge*) and the GC was in the low $40s. Yikes. Now I'm definitely not in the market. They must make a bundle on these things.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I've lurked in a couple of the NAXJA forums periodically. I probably spend more time lurking at JU. Really, grad school keeps me from being able to get involved in more boards than I already am. But thanks. (and graduation is imminent!)
Its not really exhausting; so long as I can keep it from turning into a Liberty lovefest, I'm content.
You currently have 4 Cherokees?!? Geez. I presume at least one is a dedicated trail vehicle? Are all 4 running or is 1 or 2 of them for parts?
As you can imagine, over on the NAXJA board the Liberty-XJ discussion was reverse of this one. Final consensus is that it will probably do fine in it's intended market segment, but, can't accept that DC hasn't been listening to reasonable suggestions for upgrades to the XJ and that they are going to stop XJ production. At least the "violent" opposition may have had some impact on dropping the name Cherokee for the KJ. When the Liberty reaches millions sold, thousands logging over 200K miles, and multiple-unti owners, while bouncing around off-pavement and delivering groceries in a less than 22K package, then I guess we'll understand why they dumped the Cherokee.
All four of mine are running, but I have been looking at my first '87 (197K) as becoming a parts supply for the other '87 (150K). I recently retired my '92 (170K) from daily duties to develop it into a "play" mobile - but it has been in some amazing situations in stock condition during it's life. The '96 (65K) is being babied for now. Once again, if you need any XJ questions (tech or non-tech) answered - you can't do any better than NAXJA. Good luck.
Mike
Yup, my Cherokee is a 2 door. No, no one mentioned the catalytic converter - though I will have it checked out - thanks.
I am excited about the Liberty, I think it will appeal to a lot of people - myself included, but Jeep has experienced a lot of quality problems in the last 3 years (including the Denver service dealers). I just don't know if Jeep can overcome the quality problem that is plaguing all american manufacturers the last few years. (That should be another topic: why can't american auto makers produce quality cars as good as their competition - Honda, Toyota, Subaru). Lets face it - why can't Jeep offer 10yr-100,000 mile drive train warranties? Or why are some of the lower end Honda's and Toyota's offering better interiors than the higher end Jeeps? (I'm not even going to talk about Ford's horrendous interiors).
They had a Jeep Liberty on display. Unlike the one at the Baltimore Show, this one (still a Sport), was dressed up a bit more. While it still had steel wheels, this one was equipped with the "Up Country" package, with the increased ground clearance. It was interesting to note that the front tow hooks are now inverted 180° so that the open end is now at the top, instead of the bottom.
Paisan_ I forgot to ask you what you thought of the Liberty, now that you've seen it in person.
Bob
Personally, I like the "boxy" look of the std. cherokee, the Liberty will no doubt be a hit with a lot of people. Things I noticed:
High windows/low sills- Love that My Trooper has very high spacious glass windows and low sills, gives a great driving position and visibility.
Shorter rear section- the rear section is much shorter in length than the std. cherokee.
Outside rear tire- Good choice, I like the external tire, much easier for changing tires than the un-body mounted ones.
I did sit in an old cherokee and found it difficult to get in and out of the back doors, so that will no doubt be improved. But if I had to choose only the old or new, I'd go with the old.
-mike
Bob
Should make for an interesting comparison test, since they seem to be so evenly matched in terms of features, and are going after the same customers.
Bob
I too am interested in the price. I'm not in a position to buy until April and it's killing me to wait that long. But if this vehicle is similarly priced to the Escape I'll wait a little longer. If it's a little more $$, I may just get it anyway. Problems with the Escape are making me think twice about it.
Well, I'm off to the library tomorrow to check out the mags that have articles on the Liberty.
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/hds2/petition.html
Bob
What it also needs is a height adjustable seat.
The Xterra driver's seat is way too low and it doesn't adjust (even manually). After sitting in an Xterra, I never bothered taking it for a test drive. Add bad gas mileage AND poor power in the same package and it wasn't attractive.
If the new Xterra has improved styling, more power and adjustable seats and is priced competitively with the Liberty, it will be tough completion. I'm guessing the 2002 Xterra will get the muscular cladding and front end styling like the new Frontiers.
The Liberty Limited will have many options available not available on an Xterra, like leather seats and moon roof, but buyers will be very wary of new model Jeep reliability. I am also expecting the Liberty to have a better highway ride and better control over road and engine noise than the Xterra, but that remains to be seen.
I am sure that at least one magazine will have a comparison test when the 2002 Xterra and the 2002 Liberty are released.
WIshful thinking tells me that backlash from current XJ owners is keeping DC from renaming the Liberty "Cherokee".
http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/2001chicagoautoshow/45091/page011.html
Bob
My understanding was that the new Liberty was all along going to be called the Cherokee, while the current out-going Cherokee was to be renamed the Cherokee Classic.
Bob
And... please don't tell me that those owners never go off road. I have seen many an IFS-equipped 4x4 being used off road—way off road.
The new IFS/IRS-equipped Montero has been praised left, right, up & down, as to its off-road prowess in virtually every type of automotive publication—including those that are off-road oriented.
BTW, the next-generation Range Rover will be IFS/IRS equipped.
Bob
Although, you may have a hard time of convincing Hummer (or Unimog, or Tacoma, or Montero, etc.) owners of that. Speaking of Unimog, did you read that DC, via Freightliner, will be bringing IFS/IRS Unimogs over here to sell? Yes, and like the Hummer, these are hyper-expensive and purpose-built vehicles. But it won't be too long before we see that technology trickle down to mainstream vehicles.
As you and I both know, 99.5% of SUV owners will never put their SUVs to that kind of test. So, if you were Jeep, who would you build your product for? .5% of the SUV market? Or 99.5% of the SUV market? The answer seems pretty clear to most people.
I am convinced—CONVINCED—that, in 10 years (probably sooner!), Jeep will be out of the solid-axle business. You won't be able to buy a new solid-axle Jeep. Why? Because in 10 years, the IFS/IRS technology will have addressed any and all lingering concerns regarding off-road capability. Solid axles will by then, be thought of in the same context as vacuum-operated windshield wipers and tube tires.
The future, as well as today' market, is with IFS/IRS, not solid axles.
Bob
I for one am getting tired of my '94 Jeep Cherokee's buck-board suspension ride and the crummy gas mileage. I don't get any speeding tickets with the I-6 engine because the engine noise is so loud, I KNOW when I'm going 70mph. (If I buy a quieter car, I'm doomed).
I'm looking forward to the new Liberty - IF Jeep can correct their current quality problems (especially with new vehicles or redesigns).
If you're looking for a car to abuse for "true" off-roading trips and have the money to spare to abuse a vehicle, than by all means buy a current Wrangler or Cherokee. Those of use who can't afford to have a car to purposely abuse but want something to handle occasional dirt roads and unplowed snow on mountain roads, are looking forward to the Liberty. But it was Car & Driver or MotorTrend (can't remember) that said the Liberty actually did better than the Cherokee or the JGC on the Rubicon trail and said the new suspension was just fine for true off-roading.
Some people just have a harding time accepting that change can be a good thing.
The Xtrail is more of a Rav4, CRV competitor. It lack a low range, and is aimed at light-duty off-roading. The Liberty and Xterra really are much better matched in terms of capability and customer base. They're both "true" on/off road vehicles, with a high/low transfer case.
Bob
Why is it that anytime someone wants to say independent suspension can be just as good as solid axles (offroad) always bring up the hummer (and unimog). The portal axles they use are unlike any other independent suspension. They are also expensive and not used on the Liberty.
Sorry, but if the Tacoma wants to play rough, it has to have a solid axle swap done. Its a matter of geometry. Solid axles have twice the swivel arm that independent suspensions have. Independent suspension will never have the wheel travel/articulation you can get with a solid axle.
I'm not sure you aren't correct though. Jeep may very well be out of the live axle business in the near future. But so too will its offroad prowess vanish. It may be moot anyway; I am at a complete loss to comprehend how Daimler could have turned Chrysler around the last couple of years the way it has...
kem1: Name one vehicle that switched to indep suspension and didn't give up offroad abilitity. Not even the TLC could do it.
Yes they are expensive. I also said that in my post. My point is that there are other ways of building independent suspensions. The Hummer and Unimog are two good examples. The luner rover showed another completely different approach.
Speaking of expense, most new technologies often occur on premium products first, and then, sooner or later, the technology trickles down to mainstream products, with a corresponding drop in price. Down the (off) road, Jeeps could very well be wearing suspensions not unlike the Unimog—especially now that they are all under the same corporate umbrella. In ten years time, it could be very possible. We just don't know.
Again, it all depends on what you're going to do off road. If you're going rock crawling, with the current state of technology, solid axles are best. If you're off-road racing, I think IFS/IRS has the edge. The recent 3-week Paris-Dakar race was won by a IFS/IRS Pajero (Montero). I think there was maybe one(?) Jeep that participated. I'm not even sure if it finished. Many, in not most, Baja racers have IFS.
You know, we have argued this point... it seems like forever. Maybe I'm just a polyanna-optimist. I just can't help but think future off-road vehicles will be better in every way than the current crop. That includes IFS/IRS suspensions.
Bob
They're specialized vehicles. From a consumer point of view, they have no bearing whatsoever. I would argue, from a sprung/unsprung weight POV, they are much more like a solid axles than traditional indep suspensions.
Indep suspension is better for high speeds offroad; I won't argue that. But for riding on trails, inherently slow, I want a solid axle.
If Jeep doesn't provide them, I've bought my last Jeep.
Oh, and although I'm only guessing at this, I would bet the lunar rover had ind susp simply because it was the only way that could get it to fold up...
You're right, Juta Kleinschimdt (first woman to win the Dakar, BTW) won the rally in her 2 door Mitsubishi Pajero.
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
Consider this: 10-20 years ago IFS/IRS for off-roaders was virtually unheard of. Today IFS/IRS, while still somewhat of a rarity, is no longer a surprise, and is being investigated by just about every manufacturer who has an interest in producing an off road vehicle. Having said that, think about what the SUV landscape will be in another 10 years, or 20 years.
Bob
I'm telling you—it was wild. Bikes, buggies, SUVs, huge trucks—great coverage. I watched in January, as it was occurring, and last week they had an hour long summary covering the main highlights.
I did see at least one ML, and numerous Pajaros (both long and short wheelbase models). By their sheer numbers alone, the Pajaro (Montero) seems to be the vehicle of choice for this race. That says a lot (to me) about the off-road capability of IFS/IRS systems.
Bob
Yep, lots of IFS/IRS vehicles. In fact, I think that just about all of the prototype class vehicles were IFS/IRS. That said though, I do agree with bblaha that for slow/rocky off-road usage, solid axles may be more predictable/better. Just my humble opinion though.
BTW, you probably already know this (maybe), but the next generation Jeep Grand Cherokee will have IFS because of its far better ride and handling on-road. Also, the next generation Range Rover is all independent.
But I digress...
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards
http://community.webshots.com/user/jrtx
Bob
As for the next Grand Cherokee, there are a number of rumors floating around. One of the most intriguing is the oft-rumored "Overland" which has a height-adjustable suspension. I also believe it is fully independent. The recent Jeepster concept had a similar setup, I believe. One recent—and very disturbing rumor—is that the next GC may not have a low range. To me (and to every Jeep lover), if that occurs, it would be an utter disaster for Jeep.
Bob
-mike
Bob
-mike
Bob
Moving to IFS is already a disaster for Jeep lovers. What's one more?
Paisan: Of course the Cherokee is unibody; how else could it be so light. Its also one of the reasons why sunroofs aren't offered as an option. When the XJ first came out, that it was unibody was one of its biggest criticisms.
-mike
I do go off road every now and then. I have absolutely no desire to go rock crawling, or to put my vehicle in harms way. I do want a low range to help me get out of sticky situations. I see no conflict of interests here.
Also, re: sunroofs- why then do they offer a moonroof on the Grand Cherokee, which is also unibody?
I find it funny, that you—a young PAD candidate in mechanical engineering—to be so closed-minded about new engineering ideas, concepts, and possibilities. All I hear from you is what can't be done, not what can be done. Judging by what I'm seeing in the way of new product, there seem to be a lot of mechanical engineers who don't share your thinking.
Or, perhaps you feel all these engineers are being "forced," by marketing types, to design and engineer items that they really don't believe in.
If all mechanical engineers were so conservative with their thinking, we would still be riding in horse and buggys. All I can say is, thank God for those who believe in the power of "What if..." thinking.
Bob