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After some readings and research, this is what I THINK how this whole breakdown is:
1. Base Invoice Price
2. Dealer Holdback (2% of MSRP)
3. Advertising Fee ($500)
4. Wholesale Finance Reserve (1% of MSRP)
5. Gas charge ($10)
The Edmunds/Consumer Report/MSN Autos invoice includes the total of 1+2+4, but does not include 3 and 5.
The actual dealer cost includes 1+3+5, but does not include 2+4.
The invoice price dealer shows to customers, as a few posters report here, include the total of all 5 items.
So if you pay Edmunds invoice, the dealer profit is 1+2+4 - (1+3+5). Anything more than Edmunds invoice will be added to this as extra dealer profit.
Hope this clarify things a bit.
In this case, if I buy the vechicle at "dealers invoice', the dealer has already made $628 (dealer holdback) + $314 (whsl financial reserve) = $942.
Wow...I cannot believe you get $700 above Edmund's invoice. I can look at your message but in case you don't have it there, which state are you in?
Thanks.
I paid about $1,100 over Edmunds invoice to get the exact car I wanted because that is what I thought it was worth. I would have paid less if possible (could have waited), regardless of whether the dealer makes money or not.
They will tell you its not negotiable but you need to wait until the end of the negotition and use the warranty as the final clincher. You need to be able to walk out of the dealership to be successful here.
eg "OK if thats your best price if you throw the warranty in at $700 I'll buy today............."
Get up and leave if they insist on full price for the warranty
The dealer makes a 100% mark up so the $1600 warranty costs them $800 and they will deal if it means selling you the car or not .
I have got as much as 50% off but 30% is easier.
I never buy warranties on anything else I buy but always on my cars.
Dont buy a non-toyota warranty off of the web, its not as good and harder to collect. I did it once in Chicago and regretted it.Its not a cost saving if you cant collect!!
Good luck
Highlander 2008 Sport V6 (6950)
Color: Black
Interior: Black
JBL Audio
Leather Seat
Power Moonroof
carpets/rubber cargo mat
Two Row Seat Package Deletes 3rd Row
Power Rear Door
Front Auto Dual Zone Climate Control
Homelink
Toyota Guard ($619,99% of all SE US Toyota have this and they won't take it out)
$32,500 >>Tax&Fee>> TOD at 35,700
Add ($900) for
Side Molding
Mudguard
Side Bar
Final Price at $36,600(OTD)
***All numbers are round to the nearest 100
No trade in
Central Florida Toyota offered an identical car for 32,000 but would arrive a few days later. We were not sure if they can deliver the car. So we decided on the one we can see first.
There were only 2 black/balck leather/Moonroof in SE US at the time
Took 4 hours from the moment we walke in to the moment we drove out
Hope this help
PS Bringing the car back because right side speaker does not work... :mad: :lemon:
I wish they can do their “checking with my manager” thing faster
Leather faced seats w/o 3rd row
Homelink
Special color
Power rear door
All weather mats
3rd row seat delete
Window tint
Front Dual Zone Auto HVAC
Toyota protection (required)
I was actually waiting for another Blizzard Pearl Sport with Ash fabric to come in. I prefer black leather so I was pretty excited to find this vehicle. I purchased from Atlanta Toyota.
I will definitely give more info.
Here is what I remember:
08 Ltd, w/nav no DVD. Running boards (came with them) the other std ltd equipment such as moon roof, rear AC, etc etc. I got it from Tri County Toyota in Limerick, my salesman was from the internet sales dept. He was a nice guy, really. No BS, I already knew what vehicle I wanted so he just worked with me on price. I did not like Sloane Toyota in Devon, they really seemed like the stereo typical "car salesman". If there is anything more information you want, just let me know I dont know if there is a PM in this service, but I will check the post.
Anyway total came to 37,200 + taxes and tags. you would not have to pay taxes being from DE.
-Cold Weather Package Includes
-Homelink Universal Transceiver
-Leather Seat Package Includes 3 seat
-Anti-theft Alarm System w/ Engine Immobilizer
-Front Auto Dual Zone Climate Control
-Auto Rear Air Con itioning System
-Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof w/Sunshade
-Tow Prep Package
-Carpet/Cargo Mat - 3 Row Seating
The Edmunds invoice is around $32,200 and was offered at $34,550. It seems a bit high given what other people are getting. What is a reasonable price to pay for this and are there any good dealers in northern new york or NE US to do business with.
Anyone from Iowa who got a good deal. One dealer asked for $5000 down (included tax,title, etc) with $590/M. It was Limited, DVD, Nav, Moon Roof, i.e. fully loaded. I backed off as it appeared too high to me.
Thanx.
I will give an example I just bought a Toyota Sienna Limited AWD well when i went to the dealer last word i had (no call backs either) was $8k inception to get a monthly of $485 (all included), Irecommended the store to afriend since they were "nice" not pushy and low and behold he gets the same vehicle for $1650 inception and $525 a month all included. Obviously I went back spoke to the sales manager and I got the same deal and I ask why?....well simply he had better knowledge than I had. Will I speak evil about the place nodid it leave a sour taste in my mouth YES!..will I go back and recommended this store YES!...but I will always recommend to all to get all their numbers so when one is well informed you will know when you get a fair deal or bad one.
you do some research, IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET TOTALLY RIPPED OFF AT A DEALER. If you know the cost and current market trend on a particular vehicle, it's not that difficult to
get a fair deal.
Not too long ago on a vehicle lease, Cap Cost or selling price was not required to be disclosed! Unless you were very
savy customer, sometimes you didn't even know how much you
paid for a car!
Some people are just Not Happy,no matter what. Even if he
paid invoice with no other rebate or incentives going on,he
is still not happy! Some people pay $1000 over invoice on
a pretty popular car and walk away Happy!
If you paid close to average going price and got best financing available, then why not be happy?
I was quoted $ 1200 over the invoice and got it to $ 1000 by saying I would come up right now. ( I was ready to buy and had done tons of research in the last months) My salesman agreed pretty quickly so I figured I could at least ask for just a bit more. I wanted the mud flaps and Valor chrome exhaust tip worth $ 100 total. They didn't have those in stock so I asked for the cross bars for the roof rack and he said those were already on the vehicle so we were a go.
Turns out the cross bars were on the another HL - almost identical model that they had in stock. But not wanting to create any bad feeling they ordered me a set and will have it shipped to me with the chrome exhaust tip - no added cost to the deal. They earned some good will with that gesture. So it makes $ 808 over invoice - a great deal for a hot truck in limited supply. And to you car biz folks reading this I don't have a problem with a dealer making a fair profit.
I talked to a lot of dealers and they wanted MSRP ( never called them back! ) or $ 1500 over on the HL Limited 4x4 with Nav. It is still in limited supply and you'll have to act quick or just be lucky with the timing- I only wanted the waveline pearl color. I happened to learn these guys had one in stock after almost settling for one w/o nav. ( Glad I waited - nav system and large screen for phone and audio controls is great!) I did have a dealer that was going to sell me that 4x4 Lim model w/o Nav for about $400 over - think it had been sitting on his floor awhile. )
During my research talking and negotiating with dealers I had the usual scams and tricks and three real honest straight forward hard working salesmen that deserve mention. I'm in the SF Bay Area but bought my HL from Thue Lee ( pronounced "two" ) at Roseville Toyota - They say they are northern CA's biggest dealer and I guess they have the volume to make great deals. A finance manager said they do 8-900 cars a month there.
In the Bay Area Mike Stranton at Walnut Creek Toyota was real good and hard working and up front - he just didn't have the supply of HL's he needed.
Joe Testa at Downtown Toyota in Oakland was a pleasure to work with and was trying to work that deal at $ 300 over invoice for me. He's a energetic guy who won't play games.
Cindy Lee at City Toyota in Daly City was helpful when I was eager to buy a HL she had in stock but was less helpful when I decided to wait for a 4x4. City also seems to do a high volume and Cindy offered me $600 over on that HL Lim 4x2 with Nav and then towards the end of the month ( Sept ) dropped it to $ 400 over! I was impressed and maybe spoiled with Cindy originally because she was the first to not just show me the invoice but make me a copy to keep. I had some dealers not want to show me the invoice and more show it to me but not let me keep a copy. I was never out to try trick these guys I just wanted to see and go over the numbers to make sure they weren't pull one on me! ( I found Consumer reports and Edmunds numbers to be right on. Consumer's reports Vehicle Report at $ 14 was worth it just for the detailed invoice pricing on options and packages that Edmunds doesn't give.
Another must read is Jeff Ostroff's site: http://www.carbuyingtips.com/scams.htm
I was amazed when a dealer did things that Jeff had warned about - like trying to double charge for holdback and financial reserve. And I laughed when one salesman said " it's a today price only - won't be able to do this tomorrow! ( I told that same guy that I didn't like his particular vehicle because of the color - and he said well forget the color- what can we do to get you into this car tonight? Okay if I forget it tonight but what happens when I wake up in the morning?)
Be aware that I didn't bother asking anybody to go to invoice or give up holdback or reserve - it's not going to happen on a Limited right now. I would expect to pay $ 1000 over on a HL Limited 4x4 with Nav at the biggest dealers and $ 1500 or more at the smaller ones.
At Toyota of Alameda I didn't have a good experience with the sales floor manager - he was pushy and obnoxious.Eric the internet guy was okay but a little blunt and maybe even rude. He was trying - slowly - to work with me on price.
Hayward Toyota was a bit better and you could try Jeff Hershman or Masood Mardanzai there.
And I'd have to give props to Andy at Auburn Toyota. He didn't have any HL's in stock that would work for me - although he did have some on allotment a bit out. He went ahead and told me about the HL that Roseville had on the ground. Roseville doesn't do dealer trades just referrals - so Andy knew he might lose a sale if he referred me but did it anyway because it meant I could get the HL today rather than waiting a month or more. Good guy.
While I agree that de77's generalizations are not true in every case, I disagree that his post was "facetious and snide."
There are customers who will feel like they've paid too much, regardless of the price they actually paid. Other customers value other characteristics (right or wrong, like the perfect color) of the sale and are more than happy paying whatever it was they paid, even if it was merely an "average" price.
I wouldn't doubt that these two types of buyers would complete surveys accordingly. However, they aren't the only two types of buyers out there.
In my opinion: I think dealers have every right to maximize their profit. I could care less if the GM makes $300K a year. Good for him or her. All I care about is that I'm paying the price that I've determined, based on all the information available, that seems fair and reasonable.
If that price is lower than what a dealer is willing to accept, that's fine. I don't fault the dealer for not lowering their pricing to meet mine, and I expect the dealer to respect the same in return (i.e. I'm not going to spend more just because they say so).
When I sign the sales contract, it's because I'm happy with the price, the car, and the dealer. Anything less and I'll walk and/or wait.
is that too much?
Does anybody in MA or CT get Invoice price?
2008 Gray mettalic with Nav/dvd/power liftgate/leather/fully loaded, all options
Please guide.
The quote for this Limited AWD w/Option D is $38,800 + taxes-etc (MSRP is almost 43k). Sounds reasonable to me. (Option D includes NAV/Entertainment,rear climate,rear spoiler, heated front seats, power rear door, moon roof & tow package). Any words of wisdom? Thanks!
Very deceptive sales practive!!
Actually what I said was, the unhappy or grumpy people that take away all the profit from a deal tend to be those that submit bad surveys in my experience-even when the sale went through without a hitch. NOT EVERYTIME, BUT ENOUGH TO BECOME NOTICABLE.
I think it is simply because these customers have already made up their minds that they aren't going to get a good deal no matter what or that they've already decided that you are not a decent human, instead a liar and thief. I actually had someone suggest once that I was lying to him about my pricing- I then politely declined to do business with him. He was shocked, but why would I do business with this person? To run the risk of a bad survey due to his preconceived notion? No thanks. He was only going to give me a bad survey in the end, even if I paid for the car myself because he had a stereotype about car salesman that I wasn't going to be able to dispel.
In short, I am not going to boast or bore anyone with my sales achievements. I don't need to. I am in internet sales- I don't approach people or run them down in car lots, they come to me. I will say that my surveys have gotten better over the years- simply because I've learned how to avoid these people.
FE 50 State Emissions
EH Cold Weather Package
HJ Homelink
PN Anti Theft w/ Immobilizer
QC Front Auto Dual Zone
QR Rear Auto AC
TO Tow Prep Package
3T Cross Bars
RB Running Boards
DH Tow Hitch
The sticker was $35,207 incl. Delivery and I got it for under Invoice, $31,400 is what I paid and they gave me $26,600 for my Sequoia which was above KBB. They also gave me a "Discount" of $555.00 on the invoice and off the final price. They also threw in Mud flaps and installed them at their expense.
The best part was that I think I found the only Highlander on the east coast with a factory tow hitch. The dealer told me they are tough to come by, that many have the tow prep, but none with the tow hitch. I got it in Classic Silver, and have a bunch of accesories on order from trdparts4u.com at much less than the dealer quoted me.
Any questions just ask.
I love this car, and like the ride much better than the Sequoia (not to mention I don't have to refi the house every time I gas up).
Example: my last car was a semi-hot item at the time, and we agreed on $1k off MSRP. Invoice was still $2k lower than that, so he did very well. When the car came in a few weeks later, we had to redo the contract (thank God I had kept my copy) because he had "lost" his copy and redone it at full price. He did "remember" our deal when I pulled out my copy...
So he was still playing games even though he made at least $2k on the car. It's disappointing. So you can see how someone could start getting "preconceived" notions...
Eventhough I got the HL for ~$1000 over Edmunds invoice, I do not think I did bad. It is the car I wanted (color/options) and got good value on the trade in. So even though I went thru the same game and wasted over an hour, I will give descent feedback.
However, I do not feel bad about squeezing as much as I want out of delearships. For everyone who does its homework and knows the numbers, there is always some desperate smuck, who needs a car and has no clue what is good price. He will be sold etching on everything but his forhead,undercoating and paint protective layer.
That exists today. It's called the sticker price.
In all seriousness, there have been several dealers (not Toyota) in my area who have experimented with "no haggle" pricing. It usually amounted to invoice + a certain percentage above invoice (or, viewed the opposite way, a discount off of MSRP).
This price was usually a compromise between what the best negotiators could get and what the worst negotiators would pay (i.e. the ones just happy to get a slight discount off the "adjusted market" price).
All of the dealers abandoned this practice within months. The best negotiators knew they could get a better deal by bargaining elsewhere, so they avoided the dealership (or simply used it against the others). Others would walk because the salesperson couldn't even give them a token $100 off the "no haggle" price. No one was happy.
I'm not a car salesperson. But I find it interesting that we keep mentioning that the dealer should only make a "fair" profit. What is fair anyway? It seems like the fairest approach would be the no-haggle method, but that hasn't worked, at least in my market.
My point is that I realize that I'll take "a bath" (hopefully not more than $8K since it's a high demand vehicle) if I traded it in on even a slightly lesser expensive vehicle (HL Ltd.). I really don't want to have any additional out of pocket expense in getting a new vehicle. Essentially, I should have purchased the HL Ltd. with it all....Nav, DVD, etc.
The only deal breaker for me with the HL was that the cargo area behind the third row seat was small and that the third row was not a split seat arrangement. But now, that doesn't seem to be such a concern since it's not like I'll be doing a lot of hauling luggage, golf clubs, or my kids' things.
Any suggestions or strategy I could use would be sincerely appreciated. I just drove the Acadia home this past Saturday, 10/20. It's a nice vehicle, but not for me. I should have arranged for one of those overnight test drives for the vehicle but didn't pursue it. I probably couldn't do anything about getting rid of it until I receive the title which takes about 4-6 weeks from what I understand. I know I could give this vehicle a chance, but I don't think my feeling about it will change. The Highlander, in my opinion, is more maneuverable and more car-like than the Acadia.
Again, thanks in advance for your suggestions.
My time is too valuable to be driving from one dealership to another and argue about few hundred this way or the other. I am looking from the point of value added to a new car by the dealership and I am not seeing much. If the Toyota gives a holdback to a dealer of 2% , I am having hard time giving them more than another 2%.
what dealership you had purchase from? Do you mind providing name and or phone no . Thanks.
Just a thought, if it helps, as I almost returned our Corolla for a Mini in '04 and the Toyota dealer was ready do it (this was after 4 days). We ended up keeping the Corolla after the BMW dealer didn't seem to want to deal with the Mini (closest Mini dealer was 90 miles away).