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Comments
Break-in period
"Drive gently and avoid high speeds."
"Your vehicle does not need an elaborate break-in. But following a few simple tips for the first 1600 km (1000 miles) can add to the future economy and long life of your vehicle.
Do not drive over 88 km/h (55 mph).
Run the engine at moderate speed between 2000 and 4000 rpm.
Avoid full-throttle starts.
Try to avoid hard stops during the first 300 km (200 miles).
Do not drive slowly with the manual transmission in a high gear.
Do not drive for a long time at any single speed, either fast or slow.
Do not tow a trailer during the first 800 km (500 miles)."
JJ, it appears your salesman glossed over a few of these points (surprise, surprise).
As majorthom said, the first oil change is at 5000 miles or 4 months, whichever comes first (severe service). For normal service, the interval is 7500 miles or 6 months.
Are you the one who had oil changes done at 7k, 10k, and 16k miles?
You don't think any metal wears off the new parts in the first few thousand miles of operation?
Certainly to the common layman who does not no any better. I am not going to let anyone question my integrity when I know that I did everything which was required of me and have the documentation and the personnel to support their work.
I am not technical enough to know if Lexus is guilty however they are guilty in the court of law called customer service. They serviced my car up to 22,000 miles. The last time I used them i found their bill excessive and their service attitude arrogant. This was indicative of perhaps a not very well run service center. Lexus must take responsibility of which as a owner of my own firm would (The buck stops here) Their corporate headquarters did not do that. Moreover they didn't even "drop the pan" and made their assesment. I have watched this thread with interest to the positives and negatives and have certainly learned a lot. Actually probably more than I needed to. I did not put in or leave anything in the report out on purpose, there is no hidden agenda. To end and I will report the final ending to this story as it materializes.
Charles Heller
No comments on my post about detergents in fuel possibly causing sludge in engines? I sent a letter today to an EPA representative whose name was listed as a contact on some other EPA fuel additives legislation to see if he could give me more info.
Apparently the "fun" is just beginning...
Wouldn't this be consistent with the glycol in the oil?
I'm interested in the overheating part, though. Wouldn't there have been some signs beforehand, such as the increasing smoke on start up? What type of sludge would result in this situation?
Please shed some technical light on this theory if you would.
1998 sienna
Posted by 10 Nov 2001 11:16.17
From:
EmailID: jandklittle@aol.com
Complaint Type: PRODUCTS
Comments: We bought our sienna brand new from Freeman Toyota in Santa Rosa. We have gone through 6 sets of tires, the car never stays balanced correctly. Just over 60 thousand miles and under 3 years our car overheated for no apperant reason. Taking it to Toyota thinking it would just need a new thermostat. We get a call saying it needed a whole new engine. $6700 we paid for what they admit was a manufacture fault. The number 6 cylinder was a recessed a 32hundreths of an inch causing the head casket to fail. This caused the car to over heat and thus causing a whole new engine. We were led to believe that the manufacturer was going to reimburse us and the dealership would stand behind its productBecause we had not had our tune ups done through Toyota they would not stand behind their car. But once again they admit that it was sold to us with a fault.
The tire situation seems incredulous--a new set of tires every 10K miles? The dealer should get an award! If not the tire supplier!
Without further information, it's difficult to suggest anything other than the engine overheated and self destructed. Maybe a one of a kind situation could be the cause.
It would be interesting to know how far the van was driven with an overheated engine before it finally gave up the ghost.
By the way, what's this got to do with sludge?
yeah right.
Another GLYCOL victim on the list last week.
Hopefully my days of carrying Bars Leaks at all times are behind me for good.
Like to know if Toyota meant fuel additives, oil additives or coolant additives on the sludge issue
Thanks!
I checked for sludge by removing the oil filler cap and looking into the upper engine through the opening.
I found sludge in a '93 I-4 Camry with 93,000 mikes on it. I have known this car since it was new and it has had oil changes every 3 to 4 thousand miles.
I looked at two Camrys on the used car lot but was unable to see into the top of the engine because there is a baffle in the way. The oil caps on these two cars were clean but they also looked new.
On the same lot was a 2000 Avalon. A dried, black, flakey deposit was seen at the opening with what looked like sludge at the limit of my vision farther back. I have no idea concerning the maintenance on these three cars.
I also checked my own car, a 1983 Nissan 300ZX with 199,000 miles on it. It was clean with only an even coat of varnish showing. It has had its oil changed between 3 and 5 thousand miles.
I need to look at more Toyotas but, it may be that Toyota engines may be more likely to form sludge than other engines and, that the sludge can develop quickly if conditions are not tightly controlled.
I am at a loss to explain how Toyota has a reputation for durabililty though, if the sludge problem is a bad as it is reported here and in other places.
I like the Camry but I will need to resolve the sludge issue before considering one for my next car.
I am not a fan of Japanese cars and believe they are VERY over-rated.However.it is very hard for me to believe Toyota would not have solved this problem-IF it is a real problem.The answer.as I see it,is that although most of the trouble is caused by owner neglect or mistake,Toyota(like most Japanese manufacturers)has excaturbated the problem with a tone of arrogant denial-rather then reasonably explaining how this happens to the customer.
Without a doubt, 99.99 percent of the automotive universe recognizes that looking inside an oil filler cap is not an indicator of a sludge condition.
About.01 percent won't accept that, and neither you nor anyone else will ever convince them otherwise.
Cheers, The Pilot.
http://members.tripod.com/~MyanmarStar/index-2.html
http://www.usedcarbuyingtips.com/used-cars/engine.html
http://www.fish4cars.co.uk/features/peugeot306.ht
ml
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/advice_buyused_beware.html
WOW maybe it's just 98.0 percent. Could you have any less credibility?
1. Make sure that the vehicle is broken in properly according to the owners manual.
2. Avoid repeated short trips especially in hot weather. I make sure that once a month I take at least a 50 mile trip for a vehicle that I use as a get to work commuter only 10 miles each way. The longer trip helps evaporate condensation, and minimize corrosive acids.
3. Never go longer than the TIME in MONTHS or mileage recommendations for SEVERE schedule. If using a conventional I would actually recommend around every 3,000 miles if most mileage is city miles. I would change synthetic at every 5,000.
4. Do all oil changes only at the dealer during the warranty period and KEEP EVERY receipt. At least 2 have had engines fixed because they did every one of their oil changes at the dealer and many more have been denied because they did some service at another location. I think this is illegal, but you want to take the best route during the engine warranty period.
5. Have the service agent sign and date the maintenance book at every oil change and repair during the warranty period. Keep an exact record of the oil put in, and it's rating (SJ, SL Etc).
6. After the first oil change, I would change over to the full synthetic that the the dealer recommends and uses. Some who have sludged engines mentioned that their oil was "cooked" or burnt. Synthetic will be more durable at higher temperatures.
7. Do at least an annual oil analysis and watch for unusual behavior, especially worn out oil on the lower mileage intervals, and high anti-freeze.
8. Change the Air filter with the oil changes.
Please understand that these recommendations are conservative, and viewed by some on this site as controversial. However, this is what I would do if I owned any Toyota at the present time.
advice_buyused_beware.html
http://www.autolinkuk.co.uk/mk3fiest.htm
http://www.alotofcars.com/howtobuy.html
To make up for the links that didn't work above. It seems some will have to be pasted to the browser window.
Now on to link #2. If you are buying a Ford Festiva in England, this site probably has some meaning. If not, what is the point?
Link #3 I find interesting that you would even post as it says exactly what dealers have been telling customers. "If the colour is dark black and residue is present, then this indicates that the oil has not been changed for a very long time and hence the car has not been looked after." Shazam! I would never have thought that!
As usual, your post only tells part of the story. Gunk under an oil cap is no de facto proof of engine sludge. If an engine has sludge, it will probably have sludge on the cap but not vice versa. That was my only point and you decided to go off half cocked again.
9. Mark your oil filter with a black magic marker or some duct tape prior to taking your car to the "so called" dealer.
10. When you pick up your car, check the oil and check that a new filter was installed prior to leaving the "so called" dealer.
I just pointed out that there are several sources that DO indicate just that. Just because they didn't say that you look under the cap of Toyota engine number 343h3554 for 2 mm of residue is irrelavant. But if you like straws you are welcome to grab at them.
I'm just pointing out the FACT that there are Toyotas sludging up with less than 20,000 miles on them and regardless of how the sludge is or isn't detected these people are not getting warranty coverage. We can argue about petty stuff like oil caps but that fact remains.
I'll stand with those who know what they're talking about, and have the experience to back it up.
"Le Sludge" cannot be determined by cursory examination of an oil filler cap, no way, no how, in spite of those "selected references" you point to.
BTW, Fxashun, if nothing else, those referenced websites reinforce credibility that sludge is a universal phenomenon, and not as exclusive as you infer.
Cheers, The Pilot.
Mark the level of coolant on your overflow tank so you can immediately see if you are losing any.
My point was that if the engine is sludged, you will find sludge in the cap but that sludge in the cap does not imply a sludged engine. If you find sludge in the cap, further investigation is required before a true diagnosis is arrived at. You seem to encourage panic by making the oil cap the litmus test and that is silly. You thrive on panic though so I guess it doesn't surprise me.
If you find sludge in the cap of your Toyota then you have a problem. If I were you I would ask myself why it's there. There are obviously examples of the afore mentioned Toyotas that don't have sludge so those that have the identical engine and do have an issue. If it weren't an indicator of a problem then all would have none or they all would have it.
Now our resident authority on all things Sludge has added an Eleventh.
"Thou shalt not doubt the opinions of Fxashun, else ye shall suffer the examples of aforementioned sludge."
Sir, with all due respect,contrary to your alarmist, and very much half cocked comments , looking at a gunked oil filler cap and diagnosing a sludged engine are mutually exclusive.
Let's just be clear about this... no sludge in the oil cap means no sludge in the engine. Sludge in the oil cap means you need to investigate further to determine if there is sludge in the engine. Generally, this means pulling the valve cover, unless you've got a better idea.
BTW, my '97 Camry 4-cylinder just passed the 77K mark. Still no sludge! And still no expenses to fix anything beyond normal maintenance items.
The latest ad I received showed one for under a hundred dollars. That sounds cheap for those fearing many thousands of dollars in repairs.
Harry
thx
Looking at the oil cap to see if an engine has sludge or not is a complete, total waste of time. It tells you nothing of value except that you need to clean your oil cap.
Cliffy the lack of waranty coverage and oil cap issue were not linked by this paragraph..
I'm just pointing out the FACT that there are Toyotas sludging up with less than 20,000 miles on them and regardless of how the sludge is or isn't detected these people are not getting warranty coverage. We can argue about petty stuff like oil caps but that fact remains.
The place where it was brought up.
You are the only one barking up that tree. Down boy.
I'm not asking anyone to take my word for it. I provided links of those that also say the same thing I did. Unlike you. I asked people to check for themselves if they don't believe me. You just say "I tell you there's no sludge issue and that's it". Any wary person would be cautious listening to someone who has not at least tried to get outside verification of his/her statements.
And yes I agree that sludge in most cars is a sign of lack of maintenance. But when sludge has been determined to be the cause of the demise of an engine with fewer than 30,000 miles even though there are receipts for oil changes there is a problem. Especially when there is NO OTHER ENGINE ANYWHERE that has shown this tendency. If you find another engine with this tendency I will leave this forum.
In other words, it is not at all unusual for an oil cap to show sludge. Many very healthy engines could have this meaningless symptom--especially engines with some miles on them.
So put it this way: Both totally clean and sludged up engines could have sludged up oil caps. Moisture is often trapped in the cap and mixes with oil residue from the valve train.
How so? Because water is a natural by product of the combustion of gasoline for one thing.