Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
http://www.thecomplaintstation.com/t/toyota_toc.htm
I remember reading one page where one lady's engine was diagnosed with sludge at a dealership, but they wouldn't honor her warranty because she had her oil changed at home instead of the dealership. So the service department basically claimed she never did change her oil, and that was the cause of it.
It is in all likelyhood possible, but probable, I think not. Better have the dealership do your oilchanges just in case!
But you want to talk about experience? Here's mine. I've been talking about this for over a year and I have yet to find other engines with this tendency. And this is not the first time I have offered to leave if someone can find an engine that has the unresolved sludge history of these Toyota engines.
Now, you will undoubtedly run true to form and diss their authenticity---just as one can easily question the authenticity of the grossly overhyped "complaints" we see here.
Oh yes, in spite of your flippant dust off of credible "Oil cap" advice, I still stand by those who know what they're talking about. As difficult as it is for you to accept, they're right, and you aren't.
Thanks LEXUS customer NO service.
Time will tell!
However, lots of sludge on an oil cap would prompt me to look further, to see if there's anything behind that.
As an analogy, a creaking floor in my house does not mean my floor joists are termite-ridden or rotted. Maybe it's normal wear and tear on one board. So if I heard a creak I wouldn't condemn the house. I'd investigate further.
My oil cap on my Benz sometimes shows a little milky sludge, especially in winter. In fact, I just bought a new cap from Benz that is supposedly an improved design--better sealing. The engine has 223,000 on it.
As for the "auto experts" out there, I read things I can hardly believe. Forums like these are better, you often meet folks working everyday in the auto industry, not "desk experts".
Regarding oil caps - mine had sludge all over it and was one of the first signs (after the telltale puffs of smoke) that something was wrong. This doesn't mean that if you have sludge on your oil cap, then your engine is sludged. It also doesn't mean that if an oil cap is clean, then the engine is clean. However, if I were to see sludge on an oil cap in a vehicle I was thinking of buying, I would take it as a warning and definitely look into it further. If that wasn't possible, I just wouldn't buy it. I may be throwing out a perfectly good car, but why take a chance? There are plenty of other cars out there.
I also will never buy a Toyota again. My experience with sludge and the treatment I have received from Toyota regarding the sludge has been completely unsatisfactory and I am not willing to give them another chance. It is not worth the risk to me.
OIL CAP SLUDGE...If you have sludge on your oil cap....put that vehicle on the market ASAP!
BTW...Thanks LEXUS customer NO service!
me buy a lexus?? NEVER AGAIN!
And I will. But I think you'll have to do a little better than that. Here's my link.
csandste Oct 20, 2001 9:31am
and
jj35 Oct 16, 2001 9:31am
That's a tendency and multiple sources. Find a couple more sources that mention multiple cases of Honda sludge and try again. What a joke.
And..
Oh yes, in spite of your flippant dust off of credible "Oil cap" advice, I still stand by those who know what they're talking about. As difficult as it is for you to accept, they're right, and you aren't.
I've asked you to find a link for the 99.8 percent of the blah blah...Is that the best you can do?
By the way Gimpy.. I love my Lexus. No sludge here though. And I ain't sellin'.
I certainly wouldn't waste my time looking for sympathy on the internet, making irresponsible rants like Gimpyrx's/Fxashun's, dissing Toyota ad nauseum like JJ prefers, or plastering dire warnings all over the net like others are wont to do.
Now,if I had a situation as ironclad as you claim yours to be, there wouldn't be any need for all that bluff, posturing, gnashing of teeth, and foolish tearing of hair.
The vehicle would be fixed, and Toyota warranty would have been honored--period. There would be no doubts as to proper maintenance of my vehicle. Its general condition and maintenance history would be irrefutable, and the positive relationship I maintain with dealer service would support that.
Without exception, every sludge complaint I've seen aired on the net so far is a testimonial to what the owner should have done, but didn't.
Overhyped? Definitely!
Productive? Definitely not!
You NEED TO, you MUST, pop the valve covers (at least) and ideally the oil pan.
Then you really KNOW something and can make an intelligent presentation to the mechanic, arbitrator, etc.
I feel I would be misleading someone by suggesting that the condition of the oil cap reflects the internal condition of the engine. That is "bunko science" through and through.
Life is looking at indicators of problems from chest pains to creaky floors etc., Question is whether the cost of pursuit is worth the end result and unless that oil cap sludged car is going real cheap it is not worth the effort to look into it further. There is surely another car around the corner for sale.
On both sides of the engine sludge issue we sure do have some stubborn people on this board. Anything is possible in this life and a sludged Toyota engine is possible even with good maintenance. ---- happens. To say it will never happen to me, well, fine, don't get that PSA test or that X-Ray or that EKG, it will never happen to you! You lead a good clean life! But who's to say the manufacturing process (toyota engine) didn't screw up once in a while like it does with humans and genetics.
That's why I have several others to back what I say up. Sources which have no other relationship to this forum. Pilot has made assertions but has not had a single link to back what he says up. He says the oil cap test is worthless but I have links that say do just that. He says that it could happen to any other engine but he has no link to show any other engine that has the trail of sludge that these Toyota engines have.
He has disputed my "word" but I am not putting MY word up for review. I try not to post anything that I can't back up with a link from somewhere else on the internet.
But hey don't take my word for it.
I've been following this thread for awhile, and have a 1999 Sienna.
Regarding the Sludge issue: The owners manual that came with the van does NOT have any service schedules that I can see.
However, I did see the 7500 mile guideline on Toyota's website.
http://toyota.com/html/owners/maintenance/index.html
Where are people getting this 7500milestone for changing oil?
2. Second issue: sticking sliding doors
so far no problems....except for a sticking passenger side sliding door. Had to have the dealer change out the plastic handle because of the stickage. I'm wondering if it is caused by the rubber lining on the chassis sticking to the door (bonding) near the front lower corner.
I am thinking about getting some silicon based liquid lubricant to see if I can "unstick" that door....
Any advice?
Sorry for the long post...
brentman
It's not a bad idea to have one's evidence challenged, so that you can strengthen it. Maybe he's just being the "devil's advocate". I wouldn't take it personally.
Sorry, I don't mean to be contentious about this oil cap business. I'm just cautioning people not to place undue weight on what you see in an oil cap.
Were I an arbitrator (which I have been) and someone held an oil cap under my nose and told me this was evidence of a bad engine, I'd have to presume that they didn't do their homework.
If you folks want to win your arbitrations, you are going to have to get better information. I'm really trying to help, not hinder, your quest here.
PS: Charlene is not 98% of the net, although she posts enough to possibly qualify.
Csandste--I don't post Complaint Station. It's not a nice place. But you're right on the other stuff. I believe it's mostly hype, and for good reason.
Mr. Shiftright--Call it "Devil's Advocate" or whatever, but you're absolutely correct when it comes to Arbitration. Every one of them would be summarily tossed. And there's nothing personal intended in any of my posts.
Smith53--I'm not a Commercial Pilot; don't want to be. It's too much like driving a Bus. Only left seat I sit in is my faithful T210. And you shouldn't confuse pragmatism with anything other than that.
Cholowicki--(Saved the best for last!) What should you have done differently? Well, for starters,you should have had your car's damage and proposed repairs to assessed by Toyota beforehand, to ensure that warranty would remain valid afterward. For seconds, none of the oil changes you claim were performed was done by your dealer service dept., which suggests you never went back after leasing the car, even for any other recommended items that should have been done. Bottom line--sounds like you never made an effort to establish any kind of relationship with your dealer after the lease was signed. You drove away and never returned.
Nuff for now.
pilot....You wouldn't waste your time because you have not wasted your money on a JUNK LEXUS. NEVER AGAIN! oh!....I see you are STILL clue less about sludge.
fxashun.....Must not be an RX clunker....if so...can you say TIME BOMB?
Oil cap ......One guy says I should have checked it (I did).....another says it is BUNKO......WTF?
Re lawsuits:-there have been a few threats posted here and there, but nothing of any substance that I've seen. A notorious "Loose Cannon" here has occasionally mentioned lawsuits and such, but I really don't believe an attorney with any self respect at all would touch his case.
Loyalty and build a relationship, they ended that years ago in this country as have the banks and most other service industries, only profit counts now.
As to the oil cap, sorry, I have removed valve covers and and do much of my own maintenance and have walked away from a car with crappy filler necks. I own a 92 Camry V6 with 139,000 miles but would never buy another, besides being boring cars with tired old V6 designs the dealer's service depts fringe on incompetence.
It is real,and it looks sweeter every day!
BTW...LMAO!
I may be "dissing" Toyota, but I have a good reason. The engine of my 2000 Sienna developed sludge when it was one year old, had 17,000 miles, and three oil changes. Toyota accused me of neglecting my van and forced me to pay over $3,000 to have it dismantled, cleaned, and reassembled. I have not had a good experience with Toyota and desire to tell others about it. I think it is a story that should be heard by those who are making a large investment in a new vehicle. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have bought from Toyota!
My posts are not mandatory reading, so if they are making anyone nauseous, I suggest that they close their eyes.
The over priced YOTA heap division.
My RX300 side windows now sport sweet "Pi$$ on lexu$" decals.
They get LOTS of questions, and I fill'em in with the answers.
I found that lots of people know others that have had the same type problems...HMMMMMM
And Pilot if you know your posts are worthless without unbiased support you should have been gone a long time ago.
fxashun: your repeated request for "links" are comical. I repeat - links are WORTHLESS! Anyone can post anything they want on the Net. To act as if "links" provide evidence for or against an assertion is silly. Don't insist that your statements are somehow supported because you can dig up a "link" that is in agreement. God knows - even my 13 year old daughter is more sophisticated than THAT. I don't mean to attack you and this is certainly not inteded to be ad hom (look it up), but you are making a fool of yourself - and damaging the position you are attempting to advance.
Ken
I think arbitration strategy is a lot like war strategy, in that you have to figure out the worst ting somebody might do to you before you go in.
Given this, one has to really look at one's OWN evidence and see where it's weak.
there is good and bad in every class of oil, and to know what works, well, lets say that you daddy might have loved and used quakerstate with never having a problem but now with newer engines comes newer demands on oils and so you must really learn some basics.
i also noticed that a lot of conjecture on proving your statement is needed so let me suggest that to see what i am talking about your more than welcome to goto this site www.bobistheoilguy.com and see what i am talking about. there is plenty of facts and data posted there to prove my point. one area is to goto the FAQ's under motor oils and look at the section about engine sludge. might find some interesting points.
another part is the new messg board has a lot of testing data posted one of which is on a toyota avalon and how oil was holding up in a 4300mile and 9000 mile oil drain tests. all of the numbers are there.
one other comment, as for the oil cap issue, well, lets say that when looking at a car/truck, you need to use smell,feel,hearing and sight to make determinations on sludge and anyother problem. i for one would say that looking at an oil cap would give u one indication as to how things might be looking but i wouldn't stop at just that. looking into that valve cover,possible putting ur finger and wiping/feeling around, looking at the dip stick, and doing oil analysis also are things that help give u a better picture on a overall.
bob in jville
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
Cholowicki, somehow, comparing a roof contract with a 20 year warranty to an automobile (much more costly, and far less time), doesn't seem to compute. But I'll wager you spent more time checking out the roofer than you did your car salesman--and the dealer!
I don't seem to recall advocating a "schmooze job" when I said build a relationship with your dealer. Nor did I suggest that having all service done by the dealer was mandated in order to keep your warranty.
What I was trying to suggest was that a buyer should look beyond merely haggling the best price, signing a lease, and taking delivery.
I think it's a good idea to talk to the service dept at some point in the process to make sure everyone understands what's expected of them.
Like Shifty says--Ask what's the worst thing that can happen and try to have a plan in place.
Insofar as your present situation goes, we have only seen one side--yours--and there seem to be a few missing links that you haven't covered off yet. If you plan to litigate the issue, what you've offered at this point wouldn't seem to be enough to ensure success.
I sincerely hope your attorney knows what he's about. As I said, there's a whole litany of variables which you're going to be called on, and if he's any good, he'll know what to expect.
The down side of the deal is that the car might not be your only loss. You could be assessed costs (Court costs, plus engine repairs), and have a sizeable legal fee to pay when it's all over.
Remember, you're the one who bears the burden of proof in this. The onus is on you to prove your allegations against those named in the litigation.
The good news is that it's a civil case, and you don't have to prove beyond doubt as would be the situation in criminal proceedings.
-ss4
On second thought, if you REALLY believe it's that easy, then you might even want to plead your own case.
Best of luck to you.
bob in jville.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
Then shouldn't Toyota have reduced the mileage for severe service to 3750 like Nissan does for severe service?
and 2- the type of oil that is being used. it is very inportant to understand that an oil has an api certification donut on it, means it met certain minumim requirments for automotive use. but in no way does that make it a good quaility oil.
If this is true, then what brands are recommended, and why doesn't Toyota make some reasonable recommendations?
to be quite honest with u, i personally haven't seen any owners manuals for toyota's so i can't take a posistion as to why the do or don't post the milage for severe or normal in thier manuals. since i don't know, all i can tell u is that the federal law prohibits them from mentioning only certain oils. it's called the magnason moss act and restricts them from only qualifing certain oils without them provideing the oil for free to the consumer. that would be one reason u won't see any manufacture state that they only recommend a certain brand oil.
my thoughts are that if you do have proof that all oil changes were done properly and all records are in order and they are claiming an oil failure, according to most other warr issues, they would be bound by the warr.
now to find what oils would qualify as a good oil for this situation, there is several ways to look at this, one is, to do your own oil analysis, 2nd to do research from sites like my own at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com , 3rd maybe talk with the mechanics that have been working with these cars that might have some insight as to what oil has been given good results.
bob in jville.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
What do you suggest? If it were that easy I'm sure someone would have done it by now and I ain't seen no links refuting looking under the oil cap. You know just as well as I do that if there was a link it would be here by now. Just as if there were other vehicles that sludge as much as these do they would be here too. Puleeze.
Why did you even post that drivel.
Couldn't be farther from the truth.
I don't know the latest figures, but not too long ago, for every 100 civil suits there were over 90 losers.
The only winners were the lawyers (unless they acted pro bono). Rewards for lawyers are even bigger (around 30% of the award) in Class Action suits--but only if they win. Most don't.
And with class action suits, the winnings (if any) get spread over the "class", and individuals usually see very little when it's all over.
Regarding the infamous "Sludge" issue, a class action would undoubtedly be extremely costly (up front expenses to support the action), very risky because of a broad spectrum of unknowns, and from a reward perspective, not cost effective. Not to mention that the small number of complaints to date isn't nearly enough to form a sufficiently large "Class" of litigants.
Believe me, it isn't what the movies and TV shows make it out to be.
As for class action, I do not believe my car would fit due to the previous underbody damage. My car does not exactly fit the class.