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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • SHOULD start with SUV's

    VW touareg. less cargo room than a passat wagon, but like 1000+ more.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,369
    But I don't think the market for 300+ hp cars will hold up with those kinds of gas prices.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Weight is much more important than high hp.
    Corvettes regulary pull down over 28 mpg on the hwy. 350 hp but weigh 3250 lbs.
    The SRX V6 is rated at 22-23mpg on the hwy. Not horrible.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,369
    double whammy. I hate to be pessimistic but every golden age has to end and it's usually at the apex of wretched excess and frankly as much as I love fast cars I don't think we really need the generation of 400+ hp cars that's coming down the pike.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    With apologies to whomever this is based on: What America needs is a really good, inexpensive, 300 HP car for the masses.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Don't you mean 500 & 600HP cars that are coming down the pike!
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    It has been confirmed that the GTO will have much wider 245/45-17 tires.
    This replaces the original spec 225's.

    YAY!
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Where'd eveybody go? I must have stopped the thread with my last post.
    I guess everybody went out and ordered one when they found out it was going to have wider tires.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I like your posts. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing that.

    I think this board is starved for the actual car or at least some magazine test of the car. Admittedly, I'm not holding my breath for an objective review - but just about anything would be fun to read.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Hardly any GTO info at all except for Jim Wangers drive in Pontiac Enthusiast magazine.

    Production started about 12 days ago.

    They will wait until they get a boatload of cars in the holding yard befroe they ship.

    It will take 30 days from the time the ship leaves Australia until they are at the dealerships!!

    Looks like the end of October.

    I am guessing that GM will send some over to be tested by the mags by plane or something.

    Autoweek should be the first with a review.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I always thought it would be great for the auto reviewer(s) to disclose just what the heck they have in THEIR garage. From there it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together. Automobile purchases are extremely personal - especially for someone in the business of cars. It's human nature to circle the wagons around the maker or model of what you drive.

    Nonetheless, it'll be interesting to read anything about the GTO. More pictures would be cool too.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,369
    the black one here from the Woodward cruise that was posted left me wanting to see more colors.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • For those who haven't seen it, perhaps you should read this test drive report:
    http://www.advanceautoparts.com/howtos_tips/automedia_html/pht/PH- T200307014G/index.html?page=/howtos_tips/automedia_html/pht/PHT20- 0307014G/PHT200307014G.htm

    Like some others, the reason I'm interested in this car is because it's from GM, it's V8, RWD, and a 2-door. (My '96 Impala SS isn't sporty enough for me because its a sedan, instead of a coupe.) And like still others, I also believe it was prudent of GM to stick with tried and true technology (engine and tranny). I was upset the price came in over $30k, but I think GM knows what it's doing... they purposely took the V8, RWD cars away from us, and now they're testing to see just how much we'll pay for one. And of course, to keep the price up, they are limiting production. (As b4z pointed out, you could option a Camaro over $30k, and the plastic inside was junk, so $33k doesn't sound that bad anymore, especially since this is "fully-equipped" for $33k... although not a convertible.) Just a shame it isn't being produced in the US. I'll bet the shipping back and forth (engines to Australia, and cars back) adds quite a bit to the price.

    But the good news is that we'll finally have a decent V8 RWD coupe model from GM again!
  • The rest of the GTO pictures I took at the Woodward Dream Cruise.

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto01.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto02.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto03.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto04.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto05.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto06.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto07.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto08.jpg

    http://www.ot2.cupofnoodles.com/trishield/wdcgto09.jpg

    The first three I posted before, but I've put them here again so there's no need to scroll back in the discussion. The very last one is the original 1964 GTO, so you can see how the car has evolved into what it is in 2004.

    I can't wait for this car to hit the stealerships, my fingers are crossed for great performance and positive reviews.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,369
    Black certainly does nice things for the look of the new GTO. I thought the interior looked impressive, especially for a GM, it looks better inside than a CTS, IMO.

    Did you notice that the silver '64 is the rare B-pillared coupe, rather than the more popular HT?
    The street racing crowd liked the 3-poster because it was the lightest body style but everyone else got HTs or convertibles.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    faux pas?

    "I can't wait for this car to hit the stealerships"

    LOL.

    Thanks for the pics. Especially #7 and #8.
  • A shot at the dealers who plan on gouging for this car, shop around guys!
  • For those of you who have placed orders, what kind of pricing were you able to get?
     
    Results of my "stealership" visits:

    1. Dealer has been allocated 18, has ordered 13, and of those, 5 have deposits on them. Dealer is charging a flat $5000 above MSRP.

    2. Dealer has been allocated 8, has ordered all 8, and of those, 3 have deposits on them. Dealer "expects" to charge between $1000 and $2000 above MSRP. But when I balked at the colors they chose, the said I could order one the way I want, at because it would be entered into the system as a "sold order" it might come in before most of those they have already ordered for "stock" and have deposits on. Dealer may lso throw in a few goodies for the first few orders, such as a leather jacket from the GTO catalog.

    3. Dealer has been allocated 6. Salesman said dealer has policy to never sell above MSRP; when the Hummers were really hot, they stuck to this policy and salesman expects them to do so with GTOs also.

    So, this is good news... first, as usual, you save by shopping around and talking. Second, the dealers don't appear to be making the same mistake the Ford dealers did with the 2002 Thunderbird (up to $12,000 above MSRP for the first few sold!). I wonder if GM asked dealers to exercise some constraint.
  • Man, what a crock the ending of that article is! Nothing within $20,000 will match the performance of this GTO?

    Well, let's see, I bet we can come up with some contenders within $20,000:

    How about the most obvious, a Ford Mustang Cobra, roughly 2k more than the GTO, if the GTO is 33k. Plus, 390 SC'd HP for the Cobra.

    Audi S4, a 340 HP NA V8 that adds AWD, 6 spd, 46k
    BMW M3, an I6 making 333 HP NA, 6 spd, 46k
    Mercedes C32 AMG, a SC V6 349 HP, "crappy" 5 spd auto, 51k

    Some "lesser" cars include:

    Subaru WRX STI
    Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VII

    Or, how about a Ford Mustang Mach 1, at 29k, but "only" a 5spd, and 310 HP NA.

    A Corvette would run circles around the GTO, but gets extremely close to--and likely over--that $20,000 threshold the advanceauto article mentions.

    These cars will certainly match, if not beat, the GTO, in any performance category, all well within the $20,000 limit. The two Japanese makes will actually do it cheaper: 31k for the WRX STI, 29k for the Mitsu. And, don't sweat the four doors. The '04 GTO started out as a sedan in the US and Europe.

    The author didn't mention this car is based on an already-failed U.S. model, the Cadillac Catera, which was the inspiration for the Australian-made Holden Monaro.

    The article also claims the GTO enthusiast said he'd get a low 5 second 0-60 time, and still run the 1/4 in the 12s. You'd need a SUB-5 second time to 60 mph in order to pull off a high-12 quarter-mile.

    The GTO comes into an-already crowded market segment; you can lump a lot of the performance machines together. There are plenty of fast, fun, great handling, (some even "safe"), vehicles available.

    GM has its work cut out for it with the GTO. Chairman Bob Lutz has always been a closet European-performance fan. In fact, he's worked for BMW. I wouldn't mind seeing more practical, medium to high HP, RWD cars with tight handling from GM.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,794
    "You'd need a SUB-5 second time to 60 mph in order to pull off a high-12 quarter-mile."

    sorry, but that's just unfounded. There are plenty of cars that are slow out of the gate but take off like a rocket in the higher gears. Its a very European type of acceleration. The autobahn cares more about high-speed than low-down torque. I happen to drive a car like that. It is a full second slower than a WRX to 60, but catches up to it by the time the 1/4 mile ticks by.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • Audi S4, a 340 HP NA V8 that adds AWD, 6 spd, 46k
    BMW M3, an I6 making 333 HP NA, 6 spd, 46k
    Mercedes C32 AMG, a SC V6 349 HP, "crappy" 5 spd auto, 51k

    All of them are MORE than $20K over the $33K stikcker of the GTO.

    The only vehicle that has similar performance to the GTO in it's price range will be the Cobra. The Mach 1 won't be able to keep up.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Unless and until the car is actually tested in full production American guise, we have no idea what the GTO will be able to do.

    Mercury hyped up the Marauder. It failed to do what people said it was going to do. Nissan hyped the Q45. It's numbers don't seem to match what was promised.

    Hope GM/Pontiac under promises and over delivers!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,794
    uh... actually, $33K plus $20K equals $53K. So if those prices listed are correct, then they are within $20K.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • ...0-60 time where the car ends up in the high 12s at the end of the quarter-mile. I just want to see one, or give me any publication's year and month where that happened, and I'll look it up. From what I've read, mid-second 5 cars usually end with mid-14s in the quarter.

    Here's pricing directly from Edmunds. ALL of these cars at least have a base price thousands of dollars under the $20k mark set by the advanceauto article.

    Audi S4: $46,340

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/audi/s4/100311876/prices.html?tid- =edmunds.n.mipmake.pricetable.num2.1.audi*

    BMW M3: $47,195 (loaded, Edmunds has close to $50k)

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/bmw/m3/100349157/prices.html?tid=- edmunds.n.mipmake.pricetable.num2.1.bmw*

    Mercedes C32: $51,400 (loaded $56,000)

    http://www.edmunds.com/new/2004/mercedesbenz/c32amg/100342518/pri- ces.html?tid=edmunds.n.mipmake.pricetable.num1.1.mercedesbenz*

    Looks like the only one over the $20,000 parameter is a loaded C32.

    Or, maybe the batteries in my calculator are getting weak, and spitting out erroneous results.

    Go to each of these links and see what your calculator comes up with.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,794
    Why does the past dictate the future? I won't look for one because it doesn't matter. This is a different car with its own properties. There are so many factors that go into determining how fast a car can be that its just not as easy as stating "it can't have a strong top end because its got such a weak low end."

    i'm not saying this car CAN pull of these numbers because, I agree, it would be out of the ordinary. But just because something may not have been done before doesn't mean it can't be done at all.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Lets be careful here. The GTO wasn't the fastest musclecar, or biggest bang for the buck car in the'60s and it won't be now.
    It's a midsize car with excellent performance.
    it is a much larger car with more room than a Mustang therefore a comparison is not really valid.
  • Maybe I should check my math.

    A degree in math and I can't do simple arithmetic... :(
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Come on guys - so the stupid article said within 20k. It's a stupid statement even if true. 20k is huge money. Who really cares if something for 17,500 more(number out of the air < 20k - please no issue with it) "beats" it to whatever in some magazine test. It's sad to have your automotive ego so tied to the magazine numbers anyway. Better buy them all and keep the one that has the best times so you will feel the best.

    As for the pocket rockets referenced - give us a break. These things perform well if launched just right from a dead stop - at least the ones given to the magazines do - the earliest "first drive" ones. And then they often give back a huge amount of acceleration from any kind of a roll. If you want a "cheap" car with magazine number bragging rights, by all means, go for it. They certainly are very quick. But in the real world they will likely be beat by a GTO.
  • The GTO will be a 5.5-5.7 sec to 60, and 13.8 - 14.4 quarter mile car with the size, weight and gearing.

    That's the kind of performance Pontiac is officially promising from the car, and that is likely what it will deliver.

    If it holds up, that will be a big improvement on the Monaro (6.6 to 60 with 302HP), and comparable to the GTO's main competition which is the Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35, Mazda RX8, BMW 3-Series, Chrysler Crossfire and other sporty cars of that ilk. Those are the cars Pontiac is putting the GTO directly against. Don't take Jim Wanger's personal opinions/statements as Pontiacs, or as gospel. They're his alone.

    If you really want a good idea of what the car will be like, read the AutoSpeed (car mag from down under) review of the Monaro I posted earlier.

    http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_1381/cms/article.html
  • Since when was an AMG-tuned automatic considered "crappy"?

    If manual-clutched transmissions were better in high end applications where are they in F1, NHRA, or even Ferrari?
This discussion has been closed.