Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
The Modular family received the 3V version on the V8/V10. Now it's just a matter of refreshning before the other vehicles receive this, such as next years '06 Explorer and Sport Trac.
Plus it's essential that the new 3.5L V6 comes out perfect as well as the 6.2L V8 since they are going in very important products.
Its the profits from the F-150 that will get the rest of us the vehicles we want to buy.
Mark
Will this be a 2 stage (2 RPM range) or will this be a continuously variable?
What type of VVT does Toyota and Nissan use?
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=15895
Studying the dealers inventories I noticed that SE FWD's with serial VIN's above 22-23000 all have the 6-speed. Dealer checked future incoming car list and all SE FWD's have 6-speeds. It looks like only cars below these numbers will have CVT with FWD.
If you want this particular combination, now may be the time to act. I was hoping to wait for incentives but recent statments by Ford and a recent interview with Bill Ford makes it clear that they are going to resist putting incentives on the new products.
I'm amazed by the comments on this board that some have to wait for cars or special order them. The dealer from whom I bought has over 50 Five Hundreds in stock and 8 other nearby dealers have lots of them too.
You will be seeing this in future products...
As you know, CR access on the web is for a fee, but here is a link to the press release CR itself put out on the review (or you can read the whole thing free at most any library):
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=40390
Problem one: Why wasn't it available at the start? The 300 already has a 250HP engine, so does the Maxima. Even Buicks have 240!
Problem two: By the time the engine gets here, people will have a negative first impression that the car is weak, so Ford not ONLY has to deal with poor CAR customer traffic, low resale values, declining market share, and the Taurus legacy, now the car has two strikes against it, because people buy horsepower (ask Chrysler!).
Problem three: 2006 Avalon. Toyota seems as dedicated to the new Avalon as they were to the new Sienna (Ford guy: Where did all my Freestar traffic go?)!
280HP, suave new styling (check Forum for picture, not bad), big new tech features (Voive-act NAV, Optitron guages, power sunshades, Laser cruise, I can go on), 4 trim levels, much higher quality and resale.
The basic problem is I don't know where Ford plans it's products from. The F-150 gains 40 HP but adds 500 lbs. so performance doesn't improve, and economy actually goes down. The Freestyle looks funny, can't tow, is pricey ($30k), and is easily dusted by Impreza wagonoids!
The sad part is the 500 is a pretty good steak! I almost like it. Good size, nice price, AWD. But where is the sizzle? Ford has forgotten why people buy something. Stop selling stake! Ask Chrysler what sells.
And in the end, mighty 'Yota will outsell both, with the right mix of cake and frosting. They make it seems so easy too! Don't believe me? Look at Sienna sales. Even Honda is blinking. It's as if Ford just plans to fail.
DrFill
DrFill
We've discussed that in this forum in the past, scroll back to the beginning pages were I mention timing and engine plant production.
Problem 2: The vehicle isn't made to be a huge 300-400K Unit seller as the Taurus was. And it's residual value is improved. There won't be a huge amount of leftover 500's, since the flexible plant allows it to switch over to Freestyle assembly if need be.
Problem 3: The 280HP Avalon will have the price to match it's higher aspirations. As is, pricing wise it pushes well into the Lexus ES330 territory.
" The F-150 gains 40 HP but adds 500 lbs. so performance doesn't improve, and economy actually goes down"
Fuel economy improved in the F-150 in various levels because of the improved 3V technology on the 5.4L. Yes, they could have improved much more if not for the 500lbs, but that extra 500lbs, allows it to attain A) Highest Crash Rating Scores Highest towing C) Segment leading ride D) Solidity and NVH. It's a truck, not a Sports car.
"The Freestyle looks funny, can't tow, is pricey ($30k), and is easily dusted by Impreza wagonoids! "
The Freestyle is selling at higher number's than expected. It can tow, just not huge boats- The Explorer can fit that need. Impreza doesn't pose any threat/no where near the radar screen. Pacifica is the closest.
"Ask Chrysler what sells. "
After many MANY years of half-baked passenger cars, it's about time they got one right. One home-run doesn't let you win the season.
"And in the end, mighty 'Yota will outsell both, with the right mix of cake and frosting."
Toyota has it's share of troubles, and are experiencing their share of growing pains. Their average age buyer's increasing, not attracting younger consumer's can prove Buick like issues 20-30 years from now when the loyal buyer base starts dying off. Recalls now affecting more vehicles, since more vehicles are being sold.
"One question. Why is the sedan called 500 to begin with? Does 500 mean something to Ford sedans? I"
Yes, Galaxie 500, sedan from Ford's past. Coinciding with the "F" naming, Five-Hundred did best in consumer testing.
2015 Mazda 3 Skyactive 6spd. auto 2008 Mazda Tribute S 4spd auto.
Its not the workers, they are hard and dedicated, its the Unions bosses who suck the lifeblood out of the company by forcing it to pay its workers more and spend more on insurance that any competing automaker in the world.
and making insurace a goverment good wont solve anything besides raising all of our taxes and still costing the company more money through those increases.
well, there is another problem, and thats currency differences. THe reason the 500 can't come out with a good engine is because it costs too much to make one. Toyota gains about 2-5K advantage on every midsize car they import and about 15K for luxury cars. There is an article here on Edmunds were GM talks about this.
Its because our dollar is so high, and Japan is doing everything they can to keep the yen down. Now when the 500 gets the new engine, the Avalon will come out and kick its butt.
And if market data shows, people are willing to pay more for a better product. Hopefully the 500 will be good enough but without EVEN A NAV SYSTEM i am afraid for the whole future of this American automaker, and all those workers who wont have any wage or any insurance once(if) she falls *gulp...
Dont Ford and GM have lobbying groups? Can't they do something to persuade congress to at least stop the currency disaster??? I mean there has got to be something they can do...
Toyota builds most of its engines and cars HERE in the USA and/or Canada with parts from HERE in North America.
And the new Avalon is due out in a couple of MONTHS, not years. The new Ford engine isn't due for a couple of years.
Meanwhile, many Fords and GM products are from other countries than the USA (Canada, Mexico, Australia even enters into the picture).
And the UAW is hardly solely responsible for the American carmakers woes. There is more than enough blame to go around, much of it squarely on the shoulders of management and, in many cases, the Government as well...
I note you do not mention that grand German firm, Daimler. Gee, I wonder why?
Things are not as they seem, skim milk masquerades as cream....
Most Ford engines are built and assembled in the U.S., therefore it doesn't rely on currency exchanges, but yes, on some other vehicles (Jaguar for example) it's becoming an issue. The dollar is very weak against foreign money. That and the Japanese government who purposely control their YEN, so their exports gain more, are hurting the manufacturer's of various industries.
And then there's time you must allocate vehicle manufacturing to Mexico, to help offset the cost/production differences....
Another point, information has been leaking that Toyota doesn't profit much (if any) from Camry sales... Toyota somewhat admitted to this publically. Volume sales need to be kept over a certain amount for them to post a profit, and they count on ex-Camry buyer's to move onto their higher priced Avalon, 4-R/Highlander/Sequoia, or even Lexus' vehicles and count on those profits, rather than the initial profits of a Camry sale. (this is quite common on many vehicles though).
Look at any indusry, they all say US labor costs are too high. The clothing industry left completely, and now all of those "human rights" protestors wear clothes made by slave children in some forgotten part of the world.
Managment shares some blame, but now they are on target, its not the 70's anymore, and with the new world its that the US auto industry is dying, and millions of americans risk their jobs because the government wont act and the rich union bosses dont care.
If they cared they would do 2 things, 1 they would lower all wages of all workers, along with forcing higher copay for insurance, and 2 they would lobby to get some dam aid from the govt who seems too willing to let american men and women bow down to Japanese masters.
Case and point: at the new Nissan truck plant, workers were told they had to take off there wedding rigns and other jewelry because it scratches the paint on the trucks.
And i'm pretty sure the workers there are not UAW. And look! the Titan has a NAV system...
I just think if it werent for the UAW ford could have put more into the 500, thats all. I know its tough b/c giving controll to managment would screw workers, but we need a better compromise or else soon there won't be anything left to compromise.
I see Ford spent a nickel on the CVT. Those ain't cheap. What's more important to invest in, a powerful, yet efficient engine you can use in up to a half-dozen vehicles for ten years, or a CVT, which is only good on 1-2 engines of similar size, and are worthless unless people like the engines they're linked to?
Hw about VVti? That could breathe life into these tired souls Ford keeps exhuming.
I don't want excuses from Ford anymore! They've been making cars for 100 years! And it's like they've forgotten why a car sells. They have enough money to make an engine that someone WANTS TO buy (retail). They certainly aren't wasting money on making the cars good-looking!
And people WANT TO buy Fords!!! COME ON!
DrFill
VTT/VCT are already being used in a a couple Ford engines already.
Does anyone here know if the late-model Taurus comes with a 3.0L V-6 engine other than the Duratec? I'm just wondering if the engine I experienced could have been one other that what is in the 500?
I don't find the Duratech to be objectionably noisy in my 2000 Taurus, but some people will probably think it is. It is easy to visually know what engine is in Tauri as there is a tag just behind the front wheel well. If no tag, it is the base Vulcan. If it has a little leafy tag it is the Vulcan modified to run on up 85% ethanol fuel. If it says 24V DOHC it is the Duratech.
I know they have a joint 6-speed comming out with GM. Isn't the current 6-speed built by a supplier partly owned by toyota?
If you think it does not cost too much to build an engine, check out the profit statements of toyota and ford. Toyota, by importing and working largly without the UAW, saves a boat load of money on overhead costs, and gains in the import arena with currency. All of that contributes to slash their marginal costs compared to ford.
The result is that ford has less money left over to invest in engine development, and feature content. That's why the 500 has only about 200hp and no Nav system and NOT EVEN AN AIR FILTER!
Its not that Ford doesn't know how to do it, they cannot afford to. That is my argument. Its not that ford is bieng cheap, like you suggest, but that they have higher costs, and less money to invest with.
If they don't change this situation soon it will be a disaster in the long run for Ford, and the overall American economy.
And the Five Hundred has an air filter. I know. I checked. How on earth and why would ANYONE build an engine without an air filter? Sheesh.
Toyota engines and transmissions are built in part with parts from its plant in WEST VIRGINIA, hardly known for being friendly to nonunion employers or for being a low wage state. I don't recall either GM or Ford building engines or transmissions in West Virginia....
For myself, I think it would be a good idea to let the marketplace have a chance to speak for itself. Seems a little early in the game to decide. And, I have to add, which probably reveals my bias, since when was 0-60 in less than 9 seconds "inadequate performance"? Only in America, I guess, like so many other things....
* There was great anticipatation from loyal Ford fans and newcomers.
* There was substantial information prior to cars being available to the public.
* Many people went to see the car upon introduction and posted comments, others read and based opinion on published specs.
* All either loved the car or felt cheated.
* Those in the latter camp had issues with horsepower, or features or quality.
I am one of those non-Ford folks who anticipated and was disappointed (In my case quality). I think the car will be a success, but not as great a one as could have been. But, let the market place speak.
I am afraid, I will not take any of them.
You drove the FWD/6 Speed, probably an SE model, confirm that for me...If so, the CVT/AWD/SEL-LIM might clear both of the issues you encountered. SEL/LIM have more soundproofing, and the CVT makes the most of the engine and feels sprightly over the 6 speed unit.
" My V6 Mountaineer feels like Mustang GT comparing to this car. May be Montego/500 should get the 4L from Mountaineer?"
Oh no, that wouldn't be an improvement. The Cologne V6 is much noisier than the Duratec, which is why it was chosen over the 4.0L Cologne V6. Plus, the Cologne V6 hasn't been adapted for FWD mounting, therefore it's only seen duty as a RWD. Which is why it's being used in this years new 2005 Mustang as the base engine. It's ok for it to be noisy in THAT vehicle, since the Mustang's nature allows it. And since the Cologne V6 will eventually be killed off in the next few years, Ford just didn't want to take that direction.
" I suspect depriciation of Montego/500 will be horrendous."
Actually 48% after 3 years, almost near what you might get from some other well known vehicles like Camry/Accord, etc. Actually the GMarquis has a much high depreciation rate.
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=10- 53&press_section_id=402&make_id=94
Source: Ford Media
See, for instance:
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/mercury/montego/sedan/large/index- .html?tid=edmunds.n.typemindex.content.num78.0.*
You would make a great politician lol. This is classic. "Made with parts" deal. So much is left out of this statement it won't hold glue let alone water.
It is a fact that Toyota as well as most japanese automakers stay away from unions and thus have lower cost operations. Where is the actual engine made? the windows? the interrior plastics? you will find 90% and up are non -union. There is a reason Toyota has insane profits, while not #1 in sales, and its b/c they have better margins.
The fact that one plant may make half a piston for the rest of the engine doesn't mean that toyota getting porked by the unions like ford or GM. It means that Toyota has as little as it can afford to be out of union hands.
The 500 has union written all over it, from the lack of a Cabin air filter (yea i did mean that, thanks guys) to the old engine to the lack of Nav and inadequate padding of seats.
It is an unfair marketplace were if you are a foreigner you have a better time than if you are a domestic. I think we can all agree the 500 would be a better car if Ford had Toyotas magins. In fact, it would be the next gen Avan.
Hey there are a few mistakes that are not the fault of unions or the currency situation, can anyone please explain why the front footwells of such a big and otherwise comfortable car are so narrow? The footwells on the GM are so much better, yet its an older car. People would be expecting to have room to move around in such a big car but i guess not... Has this botherred anyone? I know this issue surfaced briefly here than dissapeared. Would this turn off customers?
johnclineii Please don't take offence to my post, its just that your statement is very misleading. I apologise if i have offended you...
Otherwise its still a great car, I just lament because it could have been to ford what the taurus was when it first came out and saved the company.
On the Navigation? Go over to the Lexus LS board, and read about 20 posts. Those people over there can't talk about anything BUT their Navigation systems, and the trouble they have getting the right DVD to make them work right! I always get the Neverlost when I rent from Hertz, but at home, I don't need it really, especially if it's not gonna work.
And even though the Freestyle is slower than the 500/Montego, it's OK for me, even after the LS V8.
I disagree with both writers in this case, however. I think that the Five Hundred and Montego were designed for maximum interior and cargo space, not as sport sedans, and I don't think that either writer appreciate this.