I would like to replace the wheels with something a bit nicer, perhaps something like the newer Sport 5 spoke wheels. Tirerack.com has some nice 16's and 17's for reasonable prices. I will keep the existing 15's for emergency or winter, since they are a bit narrower.
I will probably keep the tires around the same height, maybe a bit wider for a bit more stability.
But another question, what size Torx heads do I need? I would like to get a complete set for my socket set, but want to make sure I have all the sizes I'll need.
I'm sure Tom will step in with a more comprehensive answer, but here's two points.
One, to keep the same tire diameter as you have on a 15" wheel with a 16" or 17" wheel, will entail using a tire with a much lower profile (i.e. the distance from the edge of the rim to the tread when viewed from the side). This will result in a harsher ride, mainly due to the reduction in sidewall flex. This reduction in flex will also be a disadvantage should you ever go off-road and need to reduce your tire pressures.
Two, make sure your Torx set goes up to at least a T55.
Also, just wanted to ask why you think you are limited to 16 or 17 inch wheels for after market choices? I'm sure there are some real nice after market 15" wheels out there. Also, wheels are available in different widths for the same diameter. A 15" wheel, for example, could be 7", 8", or 10".
Another consideration to watch out for in buying new wheels is the backspacing. This determines how close the tires are pulled in to the Jeep or how far they stick out. It is the distance from the center plate (where the holes for the lugs are) to the inner edge of the rim. If a wheel were laid face down, and a straight edge were placed across the wheel with no tire mounted, the distance from the bottom of the straight edge to the center plate of the wheel would be your backspacing. If you don't know which backspacing to get, just find out what it is on your stock wheels and stay close to that for the new ones.
Good to see a pos post to balance the neg one. I'm a newby Jeepster and after getting over a raging case of buyer's remorse due to my own failure to negotiate well w/ the dealer -- a new car place which was goodnews/badnews -- nice cleaned up set of wheels but had to absorb a tax hit that a private sale would have mostly avoided. Then my own error in choosing a mechanic led to another $ hit -- a I'm "learning to love my YJ" No probs so far 2.5k miles into my ownership exp. Love seeing other YJs and TJs coming down the street and love the driving exp. Lots to learn still but for me now there're only two kinda vehicles out there...Wranglers and "all others" Really have gotten into the spirit of Wranglerdom. [grin]
Yes, in most cases you either pay the tax to the dealer, who passes it on the the state with the rest of your paperwork. Or, you pay it yourself when you go to register the vehicle and get your plates.
I have an alarm that came with my Jeep (I bought it used, but the key fob has the Chyrsler logo) and I was wondering if its possible to switch the alarm so that if flashes the lights when you set it rather than chirping.
I know I'm not limited to just 15-18's. I just didn't want to go too big w/o having the Dana 44 axles. I'm not wanting to make it a serious rock crawler like that red one I showed ya last week.
I would like it high enough that it has the clearance, but not so big it negatively impacts the ability for my family to climb in easily.
If I could find some factory Jeep wheels from the Sport or Sahara from 2001-2003, even that would be nice. The stock 15's look real skinny and would like to go with wider tires as well.
sounds like you have a dealer installed option. To my knowledge, Jeep has never offered a factory alarm similar to what you're describing. Best shot would be to ask your dealer about it. They may be able to help you ID the system and let you know if there are any programming options.
while the rim size is one factor in determining how "large - heightwise" a tire is on a vehicle, you're really concerned with the overall tire size, not so much the rim size. On a Light Truck (or LT) size tire, this is easy to determine. a 31 x 10.5 x 15 means a 31" high tire, with a 10.5" cross section (tread width) that is mounted on a 15" rim. If you see a metric size like 265 75 16 this means something a bit different... 265mm cross section, the 75 is what's called the aspect ration or the height of the sidewall form the rim to the tread as a percentage of the cross section. In this case, the sidewall height would be 75% of 265 or 198.75 mm. The final number means the same thing as on a LT designation - rim size in inches. Don't ask me why it's done this way, I ahve no idea why they mix the two units of measure... OK, back to the metric sizing. To get the overall tire height of the example above, you take the sidewall height (representing the tire above and below the rim when viewed form the side and add the rim size. Doing the math - 198.75*2 = 397.5mm / 25.4 (mm in an inch) gives 15.65 inches. Add this to the rim size of 16 and you get a "height" of 31.65 inches. The width here is 265mm / 25.4 = 10.43 inches. So here, we have two tires that are very similar in size and appearance, but are mounted on 2 different size rims.
With a TJ, you can run 31" tires with minimal chance of rubbing on the street as long as your backspacing on the rims is less than 5.5". This size tire on a Jeep looks more "rugged" than the stock tires. I don't think you'll need to go to a rim larger than 16" for what it sounds like you want to do.
As far as rim width, the stock SE Wrangers came with a 6" wide rim. This is too narrow to fit larger tires comfortably. Most Wranglers had 7" wide rims and some of the optional alloy wheels can be had with an 8" wide rim. An 8" rim will allow you to run pretty wide tires, well beyond what it sounds like you want your daughter to have.
Send me an email offline (address in profile) and I'll send you some links to places where you might be able to fins some nice factory alloy rims with 30 x 9.5 x 15 tires for not a lot of cash.
I had that problem in my recently purchased Outback (a '97). I finally found some info through a google.com search - had to find a circuit board buried under the dash and move a jumper.
OK, did ya understand what good ole Trey (twylie) was saying? You can use bigger tires without going to bigger rims (wheels).
That's what I was trying to get across too. You can stay with 15" rims and get different size tires for those rims. I started out with the factory Canyon wheels on my Jeep, and they were 15" wheels, 8" in width, and had 5.5" backspacing. I put a set of 31 x 10.50 BFG All Terrrains on those same rims. See, I went to a one inch bigger tire diameter while keeping the same wheels. I could have put 33" or 35" tires on those same wheels, if I had a lift big enough to accomodate those tires.
I replaced those Canyon wheels, even though they were beautiful, since I was ruining them on the trails. I got some more 15" wheels, but this time, the black spoke wheels called AR767s. These were also 8" in width, but I got 4" backspacing to get the tires out away from the frame a little more. I was close to rubbing on the spring perches in the back when I had the 31 x 10.50 All Terrains on the Jeep, so when I went to the new wheels and the 31 x 10.50 BFG Mud Terrains, I got wheels with 4" backspacing.
If the Jeep has the very cheapest factory wheels right now, then it's going to be the width (probably 6", or 7" at best) that limits your tire selection, NOT the wheel diameter (15"). You ought to be sure to get 8" wide wheels, whether they are 15" diameter, or 16", or whatever. You can run wider tires with wider wheels.
Hi all again! (And thanks for the thoughts on the 2.4L engine)
Since I moved to LA a few months ago I've been bitten by the Wrangler bug because it seems like its a neat convertible to have in this climate. Since I've been reading about it though I discovered that there are some compromises that a non-Jeep owner would need to accept. So I decided to do a "livability study" for myself to test out what it would be like to actually own a Jeep since I've never even been in one before! Here is my review for anyone else out there who might be wondering the same...
This weekend I rented an '03 Wrangler X, 6 cylinder automatic with soft top and full doors for two days. I did a mix of city, highway & off-road driving. For background my normal car is a 2000 VW Golf TDI diesel automatic - so I'm used to small, not-too-fast cars!
The interior of the Wrangler X is a decent, basic economy car interior that I think is pretty nice looking. The full doors made the driver's seat feel like any other small car except the headroom is huge and you are quite high up and have a great view. The controls are all within easy reach and convenient. The front seats have good side support on the backrest but not quite enough on the seat for me. Neither the seat nor the steering wheel were adjustable for height but they both fit me pretty well (I'm 5'10" ~170lbs). There is a high step in height and door sill that you need to get over - however for me it was perfect - when getting out I just have to stick my leg out onto the ground and move sideways and I'm standing up!. This is actually really nice if you're the right height. (I guess this is what all those suv owners are so excited about.) The windshield is tilted at a very steep angle and the dashboard is very shallow so I don't think there will be much heat build up in the sun - although in cloudy (!?) LA I didn't really get to test this out.
When you are driving around the wrangler "wiggles" constantly and gives you a good workout just sitting in the seat. Its a bit like a motorcycle in that it requires you to pay more attention to the act of driving and reminds you that you are not sitting on your couch at home. This is probably why people say every time you get in it is like going on an adventure! As with a motorcycle this can be good if you feel like an adventure but tiring if you don't. The vehicle is quite tall - the driving position is actually in between a regular suv and a full-size one. Not every garage ramp is accessible for you like in a car. However maneuverability is great and parking is super easy in the city (even compared to my Golf).
As far as noise goes when you're driving around town at 40 mph with the top up there is a background creaking from the top which is slightly annoying but not really a big deal and you'd probably get used to it. Conversations can be held at a normal level. On the highway this gets pretty loud and you need to turn up the stereo or talk loudly at that point. (As an aside I thought the stereo was pretty decent for listening to the radio. It had overhead speakers but I'm not sure what trim level it was.) I didn't have the top down except off-road but I imagine it will get rid of the creaking but have a lot more wind blast of course. Taking the top down/up does take a few minutes but was easy to figure out. Not something you want to do more than once a day though!
The 6 cylinder engine is pretty powerful compared to what I'm used to and it can certainly accelerate the wrangler when you get it over 2500 rpms. However by this time its making quite a lot of noise (and burning a lot of gas too!). On the other hand it feels really smooth below 1500 rpm which is where you usually are when just cruising along. (I also noticed that in neutral the engine idles at a mere 500 rpm! Its clearly designed for low end torque.) Even though the aerodynamics are obviously against it this engine has no problem steaming along on the highway. The limiting factor is the general noise from the top/road/wind/engine and your tolerance for gas guzzling. (As a diesel driver its a shock for me to see the gas guage almost visibly dropping on the highway!)
I have never been 4x4ing before so I went up to the Hungry Valley state vehicle recreation area in Gorman, CA for the afternoon on my second day. I was pretty cautious because I'd never done this before (and this was a rental don't forget) but the Jeep cured me of that pretty quickly. It can handle even steep and rutted dirt roads in 2 wheel drive no problem solely based on its wheels and suspension. In fact the stock tires (225/75R15?) seemed pretty capable to me (as a first timer of course . One thing that I guess speaks to its design is it rides on a trail exacly as it does on the street-you don't really have to adjust your driving style at all. Switching into 4 Hi range is easy as it just drops into gear on lifting the handle. Going into 4 Lo is trickier and involved a fair amount of grinding until I figured out that you need to be coasting very slowly in neutral and then it works fine. In 4Lo you feel like you're in a boat just surfing along. For this trip it was really only necessary for idling over obstacles in the beginner training area at Hungry Valley. I took along a friend who has driven hummers in the marine corps and he had a great time cruising around the trails with the Jeep.
In summary the Wrangler seems best in the city and the country but not really on the highway. (But you didn't need me to tell you that!) Its kind of ironic because it would be an excellent vehicle to explore back roads and mountains with but not a great choice for actually getting there from the city, both because of mileage and comfort. Well thats my 2 cents - now all I have to do is get my hands on a 2.4L tester....
- last minute update: in a mix of city, highway and 4x4 driving (by my calculations) I got a little less than 17mpg.
Good post, and good to see you're taking a very practical method of comparing the 4.0 and the 2.4.
Most people notice the quick steering when they first drive a Wrangler. It's not that the vehicle darts around on its own, more that they over correct their own steering input. It can keep you a little on edge at first, but after a while you find you've forgotten about it.
Sounds like you had a fun weekend. I look forward to hearing your report on the 2.4!
Very nice overview of the Wrangler X and your time with it. Looking forward to the 2.4 review. Steve - wanna hook 'em up with a reviewer application?
When you get the next one, try turning the fan on to the second setting with the top up. After a minute, it will create enough pressure inside to bow the soft top out a shade and reduce the flapping on the interstate. Might also want to check the air pressure and make sure it's not set higher than recommended. If it's too high, it will make the Jeep feel "dartier" than normal.
You pretty much found the things that bother a lot of people about Wranglers. Noise, getting in and out, quirky steering. But you also found one of the best things...wonder where that dirt road goes...just turn off the pavement and find out. The Mojave desert is full of places to explore. Make sure you've got enough gas though of course.
I used to sit next to a guy with a New Beetle TDI. I'd plug my ears when he started bragging about his gas mileage.
Just to help you decide, check out this link. This is my old stomping grounds. Be sure to check out the Goler Wash link, an easy but dramatic drive. They captured Charles Manson up there. My sister used to 4-wheel there when he was running around loose. They found him hiding under the kitchen sink.
Yeah buying thru a dealer added 8.75% to the price. Private sales tax in the state I live (IL) is based on the model yr so the tax hit was approx $575. Woulda been $90 buying from a priv party. Oh well whatdya gonna do?
Sounds like your ready for your Wrangler. Just be sure that you can handle the drop in milage! Seventeen mpg is pretty good. Still, what you lose in milage, you more than make up for in smilage! : )
Got my Wrangler back from the dealer yesterday afternoon after replacement of the complete tranny at 1,200 miles. Shifted fine on the way home except for one occurance where it seemed to jump out of 4th gear. First thing today on the way into town, it ground when going into 2nd just as before. Once it warmed up, no more grinding problems, except one time when it jumped out of 4th again.
I still like the vehicle and am happy with the 2.4L, but some caution would seem to be advised regarding the NV1500 tranny that goes with it.
Most recent gas mileage 22.5 mpg, obviously mostly highway on the way to the dealer.
Glad to hear you've got your Jeep back. Good gas mileage too. However, I wouldn't be happy with the performance of that transmission. In cold conditions, with thick gear oil, it may be a little stiff to change gear until things warm up, but there shouldn't be any grinding of gears. Likewise, jumping out of gear, hot or cold, under power or on the over run, is totally unacceptable.
I have driven at Hungry Valley doing off road evals for other manufacturers. Nice variety of terrain and things to climb on...
As for Mojave, I work at Edwards AFB and am very familiar with the trail riding going on out here. It is a fun day. Even near Lancaster, Palmdale, and Rosamond, there are a lot of fun trails to go zipping down. Bring a tent and some food and make a weekend of it. It's great!
With summer here I am considering a Bikini for my TJ. I will probably buy a Bestop. Question is which one? It looks like they make 4 different styles, "Header Bikini" "Strapless Bikini" "Traditional Bikini" and "Safari Bikini" Anybody have any advice? Thanks!
There are two basic styles, I believe. The one they just call the bikini top covers only the front passenger area and stops at the roll bar/sound bar. The safari bikini, which is what I have, covers most of the cargo area or back seat area (I keep my back seat out for Ross Allen to have some room).
There are two different headers for each of these tops. One is the drill type, which, as you might guess, involves drilling into the sheet metal above the windshield. If you use this type, the header can stay in place when you put your soft top up (maybe it can stay there with the hard top on too???). The no drill header clamps into the same holes used for the soft top or hard top clamps. You don't have to drill anything, but the header must be removed before raising your soft top or putting on the hard top.
I got the no drill type, since it is so easy to remove and reinstall. I didn't see any big advantage in being able to leave the header on all the time.
If you get the no drill type, don't be afraid to go to the hardware store and buy some slightly longer bolts for the latch attachment. I was afraid that something was wrong with my fit, since getting the bolts that they supplied started threading was impossible. I was assured by someone that had this type of header that I should not worry about it and should just get some longer bolts. This apparently was true, because I had no problem with my header after getting those longer bolts. It has been too long for me to remember the size of those bolts, but just get the same size bolt in a slightly greater length, if you can't get the ones supplied with the header to start threading.
Tom nailed it on the bikini. I have a "drill-type" regular bikini that covers the front seats. I run the Bestop duster once the soft top gets pulled off. With the bikini, duster and a windjammer, I can stay mostly dry as long as I'm moving. As far as parkign, we're in the garage at night and under covered parking at work when we take it, so it's not a big deal for us. The following page has my install pictures and tips if you're interested. There are also pictures of the duster and windjammer on the Jeep.
Hi. Tweety has finally reached 3000 miles and had her first checkup. The experience with the Dealership was pleasant. The people were friendly and efficient. At the end of the checkup I was informed that my rear main seal is leaking and that they had ordered the part to replace it under warranty. As soon as it comes in, they will let me know and get me in asap.
I have also switched from the hardtop to the soft top. Thanks for the tip about the fan, the noise definitely requires an adjustment on my part. Now if it would only warm up (not to much - 70's would be nice) and stop raining so that the top could come down. :-)
I also ordered a hitch which will be installed next weekend. It's needed to tow the logsplitter. Oh Joy.
I go away for a couple of days and all kinds of posts go on.
As far as SoCal, there are quite a few spots to explore around Hungry Valley. Your review of the X only missed one point, and since it sounds like you drove the I-5 from Hwy 138 to Gorman, I'm sort of surprised you didn't mention it. The Wrangler is terrible in the wind, and it is almost always windy on that stretch of road. It is funny you mentioned it - I first bought a Wrangler, then found Hungry Valley and trails around the Los Padres and Angeles National Forests, and then discovered the Frazier Mountain communities while I was looking for 4x4 trails near Hungry Valley. Then I moved there (by the way, real estate prices are much cheaper there).
I drive a '98 Wrangler Sport hard top in winter when the roads get bad, because my normal commuter is a 2WD Tacoma (which I dislike intensely). The Wrangler is noisier and rougher riding on the highway, but has far more comfortable seats. I sometimes look for excuses to drive the Wrangler, which I really do prefer, however, as you noticed, the mpg is a real limitation. I've found that the Wrangler's limitations on the highway (while take getting used to) aren't that big of a deal. I just drive slower in it.
By the way, that 2000 Taco's odometer is about to go past the Wrangler's mileage. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to get rid of it at this rate!
Miles fly when you're having fun? I don't feel like I've been much of anywhere since I mostly work 6 days a week, but I'm now less than 200 miles short of 6000 miles. (Well, I guess I DID go to the Jeep Jamboree, and I DID scope out Red Rock Canyon State Park. Since many of you mentioned it in the past few days, the next chance I have, I'll have to check out Hungry Valley.)
I like adding accessories that don't have much to do with the running of the vehicle myself, but since I am automotively challenged, I do get nervous about doing ANY work on the vehicle that has to do with the actual running of the machinery. So I am considering the scheduled maintenance package DC offers through the dealership...anybody have opinions on that?
How did you like Red Rock State Park? I've driven by it several times, but never stopped. One nice drive that takes you from desert to mountains is Jawbone Canyon. You start in the desert, drive up and over the mountains and end up at Lake Isabella. Lovely drive, but take a good map - the roads in the national forest are confusing!
6000 miles in 4 months? That sounds like you are enjoying your Wrangler rather than worrying about depreciation. That's the way it should be - Wranglers are made to drive and enjoy, not to look at! Have fun with it.
I often run the soft top without the windows. Here's how I see it.
Soft top pros:
(i) No cost option.
(ii) Looks better (my subjective opinion only!).
(iii) Much quicker to zip in the windows than to remove the other top, fit the soft top and then fit the windows. Important when rain appears!
Soft top cons:
(i) Expensive if you damage it on a branch or tree limb off road.
(ii) The rear corners, and sometimes the rear seat belts, flutter annoyingly at speed. Can be prevented by wrapping with a bungee cord or velcro strap.
Pros and cons for the other tops are pretty much the reverse of the above. Another pro is they take up very little room folded and can be put up quickly. Check twylie's link for some excellent detailed installation instructions.
I plan to run with the soft-top folded most of the summer. I figure that it can be raised fairly quickly in the event of a sudden down pour. I don't have the option of the side windows since the previous owner neglected to trade them in with the Jeep. It has a hard-top, so the dealer didn't notice. I did, but didn't much care since I hope to go topless (or at least windowless) most of the summer anyway.
Staying dry is over rated anyway. There is nothing like trucking along in a rain storm, acting like nothing is wrong while children point and parents quickly lock their doors. : )
Fellas, check out this pic of a 2003 Rubicon - its underbelly is full of rust! Do Jeeps rust this fast? Would putting rust protection underneath be a sufficient deterrent? It just looks bad, considering it's a brand-new vehicle
bcmalibu99ls, take another good look at that picture. First of all, I see the front of the front axle, and some of the steering components.... hardly the "underbelly" of the vehicle. Second, most of the brown stuff I see is mud. Look at the marks on the diff cover, on the rubber protector (rubber doesn't rust) on the front bumper, and finally at the messy stuff in the tire treads. That's mud!!!
Finally, look at the items you see that actually do have surface rust on them. That would be the pitman arm and the steering knuckles. Both heavy castings that might be affected structurally by rust if you left them submerged in the sea for twenty years, but on dry land they will still be usable in a hundred years time. Look at those same components on vehicles that were made at the turn of the century. On the Wrangler, as with many other current vehicles, those components which are out of sight and will never be structurally affected by rust, are left unpainted. Have a look under some other vehicles before you start trying to make a case against the Wrangler.
bcmalibu99ls, do you have another agenda here? You certainly seem to be stirring the pot a little. Try re-reading your post because it just sounds like sensationalism to me. Show me a picture of a rusted chassis on an '03, or rusting body panels and I'll agree that there's a problem. Until then however..............
I just came back from a camping trip with the Boy Scouts to Keysville, which is right outside Isabella. it is a nice area and there appear to be lots of areas for 4x4 over a variety of terrain - fields, rocks, Kern river ...
Definitely an area to explore - I live in Tehachaip and am not too far from the fun stuff either way I go.
I agree, but think what you are looking at are forged pieces. Both pitman arms and steering knuckles. Due to the forging process, there is a higher iron content in the pieces than castings or stamprings and more potential for surface rust. But that is all it is, surface rust.
I have the hard top only, and I take the top and the doors off for the whole summer. I have never tried to use the safari top when the doors are on, and I don't think that would work.
I have no basis for comparison, since I have no soft top, but I would guess it is a better feeling having the safari top on instead of soft top up with windows out. I say that because I don't even like the feeling of the safari top being on compared to no top at all. I need the safari top for protection against the sun in the hottest part of the summer, or else I would just go totally topless.
I want the Rubicon, but it's too expensive, so I am trying to find flaws which would make me want it less. Please forgive me! I shall be praising Jeeps from this time on. Great trucks!!!
Yes I certainly had fun at Red Rock, but I think I will wait until fall to visit again...the temp on my mirror was reading 110 degrees F, and it's only May! Definitely not recommended for your Noble BLACK Steed during the summer. Or is this what I should expect if I plan on doing any off roading in So Cal during the summer?
As for the map for Jawbone Canyon, is the Kern county map from ACSC good enough, or do you have something better that you recommend? Per your suggestion, I got the books, but haven't hit many trails yet.
Sorry about your rear main leak, but it might be smart to take it to an indenpent mechanic for a "second opinion." I know the dealership is planning to fix it under warranty and all, but it will still be an inconvenience for you, and there's always the potential that their "fix" might not be properly done.
I KNOW that dealership service departments sometimes push for repairs that are not necessary, just to have some business for the shop. I have a friend that was fired as a service writer because he was not "inventing" enough service work that the customers needed to have performed.
I wouldn't think it would cost you much for an independent to just take a look and give you his opinion. Have you been seeing oil in the driveway where the Jeep has been parked?
I guess I'm just cynical, but it's possible that you DON'T have a problem now, but you COULD have a problem if the new seal is not intalled properly.
I have a Wrangler with half doors. I was wondering if any of you knew if the upper door halves that are sliders are any better than the regular door uppers in terms of road noise esp at highway speeds. Due to my job I've been having to do a lot more highway driving and the road noise is to the point where i cant take it anymore. Im looking for a somewhat economical solution or ill have to sell the jeep(something Id rather not do). I've also looked into buying a set of full doors but that seems to be a very $$$ option from what i can tell. Anyone have any other ideas, thoughts, comments, dissertations or remarks as to how i could solve this?
It may sound like a radical solution, but since constant noise can literally drive people nuts and cause a tremendous headache, perhaps plugging your ears is the lesser evil. And it should not be that much of a hazard on a highway, but it's your call to make, of course, as your safety is paramount
Sorry Rob, but even with the hard top and full doors, Jeeps are still terribly noisy when on the highway. For the price of a hard top and full doors, you could pick up an old honda and use if for highways and save the Jeep for the weekends.
Comments
Stephen
I will probably keep the tires around the same height, maybe a bit wider for a bit more stability.
But another question, what size Torx heads do I need? I would like to get a complete set for my socket set, but want to make sure I have all the sizes I'll need.
-Paul
One, to keep the same tire diameter as you have on a 15" wheel with a 16" or 17" wheel, will entail using a tire with a much lower profile (i.e. the distance from the edge of the rim to the tread when viewed from the side). This will result in a harsher ride, mainly due to the reduction in sidewall flex. This reduction in flex will also be a disadvantage should you ever go off-road and need to reduce your tire pressures.
Two, make sure your Torx set goes up to at least a T55.
Also, just wanted to ask why you think you are limited to 16 or 17 inch wheels for after market choices? I'm sure there are some real nice after market 15" wheels out there. Also, wheels are available in different widths for the same diameter. A 15" wheel, for example, could be 7", 8", or 10".
Another consideration to watch out for in buying new wheels is the backspacing. This determines how close the tires are pulled in to the Jeep or how far they stick out. It is the distance from the center plate (where the holes for the lugs are) to the inner edge of the rim. If a wheel were laid face down, and a straight edge were placed across the wheel with no tire mounted, the distance from the bottom of the straight edge to the center plate of the wheel would be your backspacing. If you don't know which backspacing to get, just find out what it is on your stock wheels and stay close to that for the new ones.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Please remember to stick something in the message header that tells me who you are, so that I don't delete it, thinking it is junk mail.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Lots to learn still but for me now there're only two kinda vehicles out there...Wranglers and "all others" Really have gotten into the spirit of Wranglerdom. [grin]
but had to absorb a tax hit that a private sale would have mostly avoided.
I think technically you are still supposed to pay sales tax even if it is a private sale.
tidester, host
There doesn't seem to be a manual for the alarm.
Thanks.
I would like it high enough that it has the clearance, but not so big it negatively impacts the ability for my family to climb in easily.
If I could find some factory Jeep wheels from the Sport or Sahara from 2001-2003, even that would be nice. The stock 15's look real skinny and would like to go with wider tires as well.
Am I making sense yet?
-Paul
-twylie
while the rim size is one factor in determining how "large - heightwise" a tire is on a vehicle, you're really concerned with the overall tire size, not so much the rim size. On a Light Truck (or LT) size tire, this is easy to determine. a 31 x 10.5 x 15 means a 31" high tire, with a 10.5" cross section (tread width) that is mounted on a 15" rim. If you see a metric size like 265 75 16 this means something a bit different... 265mm cross section, the 75 is what's called the aspect ration or the height of the sidewall form the rim to the tread as a percentage of the cross section. In this case, the sidewall height would be 75% of 265 or 198.75 mm. The final number means the same thing as on a LT designation - rim size in inches. Don't ask me why it's done this way, I ahve no idea why they mix the two units of measure... OK, back to the metric sizing. To get the overall tire height of the example above, you take the sidewall height (representing the tire above and below the rim when viewed form the side and add the rim size. Doing the math - 198.75*2 = 397.5mm / 25.4 (mm in an inch) gives 15.65 inches. Add this to the rim size of 16 and you get a "height" of 31.65 inches. The width here is 265mm / 25.4 = 10.43 inches. So here, we have two tires that are very similar in size and appearance, but are mounted on 2 different size rims.
With a TJ, you can run 31" tires with minimal chance of rubbing on the street as long as your backspacing on the rims is less than 5.5". This size tire on a Jeep looks more "rugged" than the stock tires. I don't think you'll need to go to a rim larger than 16" for what it sounds like you want to do.
As far as rim width, the stock SE Wrangers came with a 6" wide rim. This is too narrow to fit larger tires comfortably. Most Wranglers had 7" wide rims and some of the optional alloy wheels can be had with an 8" wide rim. An 8" rim will allow you to run pretty wide tires, well beyond what it sounds like you want your daughter to have.
Send me an email offline (address in profile) and I'll send you some links to places where you might be able to fins some nice factory alloy rims with 30 x 9.5 x 15 tires for not a lot of cash.
HTH
-twylie
Hate the chirp :-)
Steve, Host
That's what I was trying to get across too. You can stay with 15" rims and get different size tires for those rims. I started out with the factory Canyon wheels on my Jeep, and they were 15" wheels, 8" in width, and had 5.5" backspacing. I put a set of 31 x 10.50 BFG All Terrrains on those same rims. See, I went to a one inch bigger tire diameter while keeping the same wheels. I could have put 33" or 35" tires on those same wheels, if I had a lift big enough to accomodate those tires.
I replaced those Canyon wheels, even though they were beautiful, since I was ruining them on the trails. I got some more 15" wheels, but this time, the black spoke wheels called AR767s. These were also 8" in width, but I got 4" backspacing to get the tires out away from the frame a little more. I was close to rubbing on the spring perches in the back when I had the 31 x 10.50 All Terrains on the Jeep, so when I went to the new wheels and the 31 x 10.50 BFG Mud Terrains, I got wheels with 4" backspacing.
If the Jeep has the very cheapest factory wheels right now, then it's going to be the width (probably 6", or 7" at best) that limits your tire selection, NOT the wheel diameter (15"). You ought to be sure to get 8" wide wheels, whether they are 15" diameter, or 16", or whatever. You can run wider tires with wider wheels.
Hope this helps ya, Paul.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Since I moved to LA a few months ago I've been bitten by the Wrangler bug because it seems like its a neat convertible to have in this climate. Since I've been reading about it though I discovered that there are some compromises that a non-Jeep owner would need to accept. So I decided to do a "livability study" for myself to test out what it would be like to actually own a Jeep since I've never even been in one before! Here is my review for anyone else out there who might be wondering the same...
This weekend I rented an '03 Wrangler X, 6 cylinder automatic with soft top and full doors for two days. I did a mix of city, highway & off-road driving. For background my normal car is a 2000 VW Golf TDI diesel automatic - so I'm used to small, not-too-fast cars!
The interior of the Wrangler X is a decent, basic economy car interior that I think is pretty nice looking. The full doors made the driver's seat feel like any other small car except the headroom is huge and you are quite high up and have a great view. The controls are all within easy reach and convenient. The front seats have good side support on the backrest but not quite enough on the seat for me. Neither the seat nor the steering wheel were adjustable for height but they both fit me pretty well (I'm 5'10" ~170lbs). There is a high step in height and door sill that you need to get over - however for me it was perfect - when getting out I just have to stick my leg out onto the ground and move sideways and I'm standing up!. This is actually really nice if you're the right height. (I guess this is what all those suv owners are so excited about.) The windshield is tilted at a very steep angle and the dashboard is very shallow so I don't think there will be much heat build up in the sun - although in cloudy (!?) LA I didn't really get to test this out.
When you are driving around the wrangler "wiggles" constantly and gives you a good workout just sitting in the seat. Its a bit like a motorcycle in that it requires you to pay more attention to the act of driving and reminds you that you are not sitting on your couch at home. This is probably why people say every time you get in it is like going on an adventure! As with a motorcycle this can be good if you feel like an adventure but tiring if you don't. The vehicle is quite tall - the driving position is actually in between a regular suv and a full-size one. Not every garage ramp is accessible for you like in a car. However maneuverability is great and parking is super easy in the city (even compared to my Golf).
As far as noise goes when you're driving around town at 40 mph with the top up there is a background creaking from the top which is slightly annoying but not really a big deal and you'd probably get used to it. Conversations can be held at a normal level. On the highway this gets pretty loud and you need to turn up the stereo or talk loudly at that point. (As an aside I thought the stereo was pretty decent for listening to the radio. It had overhead speakers but I'm not sure what trim level it was.) I didn't have the top down except off-road but I imagine it will get rid of the creaking but have a lot more wind blast of course. Taking the top down/up does take a few minutes but was easy to figure out. Not something you want to do more than once a day though!
The 6 cylinder engine is pretty powerful compared to what I'm used to and it can certainly accelerate the wrangler when you get it over 2500 rpms. However by this time its making quite a lot of noise (and burning a lot of gas too!). On the other hand it feels really smooth below 1500 rpm which is where you usually are when just cruising along. (I also noticed that in neutral the engine idles at a mere 500 rpm! Its clearly designed for low end torque.) Even though the aerodynamics are obviously against it this engine has no problem steaming along on the highway. The limiting factor is the general noise from the top/road/wind/engine and your tolerance for gas guzzling. (As a diesel driver its a shock for me to see the gas guage almost visibly dropping on the highway!)
I have never been 4x4ing before so I went up to the Hungry Valley state vehicle recreation area in Gorman, CA for the afternoon on my second day. I was pretty cautious because I'd never done this before (and this was a rental don't forget) but the Jeep cured me of that pretty quickly. It can handle even steep and rutted dirt roads in 2 wheel drive no problem solely based on its wheels and suspension. In fact the stock tires (225/75R15?) seemed pretty capable to me (as a first timer of course
In summary the Wrangler seems best in the city and the country but not really on the highway. (But you didn't need me to tell you that!) Its kind of ironic because it would be an excellent vehicle to explore back roads and mountains with but not a great choice for actually getting there from the city, both because of mileage and comfort. Well thats my 2 cents - now all I have to do is get my hands on a 2.4L tester....
- last minute update: in a mix of city, highway and 4x4 driving (by my calculations) I got a little less than 17mpg.
Most people notice the quick steering when they first drive a Wrangler. It's not that the vehicle darts around on its own, more that they over correct their own steering input. It can keep you a little on edge at first, but after a while you find you've forgotten about it.
Sounds like you had a fun weekend. I look forward to hearing your report on the 2.4!
When you get the next one, try turning the fan on to the second setting with the top up. After a minute, it will create enough pressure inside to bow the soft top out a shade and reduce the flapping on the interstate. Might also want to check the air pressure and make sure it's not set higher than recommended. If it's too high, it will make the Jeep feel "dartier" than normal.
-twylie
goes...just turn off the pavement and find out. The Mojave desert is full of places to explore. Make sure you've got enough gas though of course.
I used to sit next to a guy with a New Beetle TDI. I'd plug my ears when he started bragging about his gas mileage.
http://totalescape.com/tripez/trips/panvlly.html
Corny, I know.
I still like the vehicle and am happy with the 2.4L, but some caution would seem to be advised regarding the NV1500 tranny that goes with it.
Most recent gas mileage 22.5 mpg, obviously mostly highway on the way to the dealer.
As for Mojave, I work at Edwards AFB and am very familiar with the trail riding going on out here. It is a fun day. Even near Lancaster, Palmdale, and Rosamond, there are a lot of fun trails to go zipping down. Bring a tent and some food and make a weekend of it. It's great!
-Paul
Anybody have any advice?
Thanks!
dewars
There are two different headers for each of these tops. One is the drill type, which, as you might guess, involves drilling into the sheet metal above the windshield. If you use this type, the header can stay in place when you put your soft top up (maybe it can stay there with the hard top on too???). The no drill header clamps into the same holes used for the soft top or hard top clamps. You don't have to drill anything, but the header must be removed before raising your soft top or putting on the hard top.
I got the no drill type, since it is so easy to remove and reinstall. I didn't see any big advantage in being able to leave the header on all the time.
If you get the no drill type, don't be afraid to go to the hardware store and buy some slightly longer bolts for the latch attachment. I was afraid that something was wrong with my fit, since getting the bolts that they supplied started threading was impossible. I was assured by someone that had this type of header that I should not worry about it and should just get some longer bolts. This apparently was true, because I had no problem with my header after getting those longer bolts. It has been too long for me to remember the size of those bolts, but just get the same size bolt in a slightly greater length, if you can't get the ones supplied with the header to start threading.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/other.htm
HTH
-twylie
I have also switched from the hardtop to the soft top. Thanks for the tip about the fan, the noise definitely requires an adjustment on my part. Now if it would only warm up (not to much - 70's would be nice) and stop raining so that the top could come down. :-)
I also ordered a hitch which will be installed next weekend. It's needed to tow the logsplitter. Oh Joy.
As far as SoCal, there are quite a few spots to explore around Hungry Valley. Your review of the X only missed one point, and since it sounds like you drove the I-5 from Hwy 138 to Gorman, I'm sort of surprised you didn't mention it. The Wrangler is terrible in the wind, and it is almost always windy on that stretch of road. It is funny you mentioned it - I first bought a Wrangler, then found Hungry Valley and trails around the Los Padres and Angeles National Forests, and then discovered the Frazier Mountain communities while I was looking for 4x4 trails near Hungry Valley. Then I moved there (by the way, real estate prices are much cheaper there).
I drive a '98 Wrangler Sport hard top in winter when the roads get bad, because my normal commuter is a 2WD Tacoma (which I dislike intensely). The Wrangler is noisier and rougher riding on the highway, but has far more comfortable seats. I sometimes look for excuses to drive the Wrangler, which I really do prefer, however, as you noticed, the mpg is a real limitation. I've found that the Wrangler's limitations on the highway (while take getting used to) aren't that big of a deal. I just drive slower in it.
By the way, that 2000 Taco's odometer is about to go past the Wrangler's mileage. I don't think I'll ever be able to afford to get rid of it at this rate!
I like adding accessories that don't have much to do with the running of the vehicle myself, but since I am automotively challenged, I do get nervous about doing ANY work on the vehicle that has to do with the actual running of the machinery. So I am considering the scheduled maintenance package DC offers through the dealership...anybody have opinions on that?
6000 miles in 4 months? That sounds like you are enjoying your Wrangler rather than worrying about depreciation. That's the way it should be - Wranglers are made to drive and enjoy, not to look at! Have fun with it.
Tom, how does it work with the full hard doors on?
since I have the soft top, do you think it's much different than just pulling my back and rear quarter windows out?
dewars
Soft top pros:
(i) No cost option.
(ii) Looks better (my subjective opinion only!).
(iii) Much quicker to zip in the windows than to remove the other top, fit the soft top and then fit the windows. Important when rain appears!
Soft top cons:
(i) Expensive if you damage it on a branch or tree limb off road.
(ii) The rear corners, and sometimes the rear seat belts, flutter annoyingly at speed. Can be prevented by wrapping with a bungee cord or velcro strap.
Pros and cons for the other tops are pretty much the reverse of the above. Another pro is they take up very little room folded and can be put up quickly. Check twylie's link for some excellent detailed installation instructions.
Staying dry is over rated anyway. There is nothing like trucking along in a rain storm, acting like nothing is wrong while children point and parents quickly lock their doors. : )
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/rp/images/03rubicon10.jpg
Finally, look at the items you see that actually do have surface rust on them. That would be the pitman arm and the steering knuckles. Both heavy castings that might be affected structurally by rust if you left them submerged in the sea for twenty years, but on dry land they will still be usable in a hundred years time. Look at those same components on vehicles that were made at the turn of the century. On the Wrangler, as with many other current vehicles, those components which are out of sight and will never be structurally affected by rust, are left unpainted. Have a look under some other vehicles before you start trying to make a case against the Wrangler.
bcmalibu99ls, do you have another agenda here? You certainly seem to be stirring the pot a little. Try re-reading your post because it just sounds like sensationalism to me. Show me a picture of a rusted chassis on an '03, or rusting body panels and I'll agree that there's a problem. Until then however..............
Definitely an area to explore - I live in Tehachaip and am not too far from the fun stuff either way I go.
-Paul
:-)
I have no basis for comparison, since I have no soft top, but I would guess it is a better feeling having the safari top on instead of soft top up with windows out. I say that because I don't even like the feeling of the safari top being on compared to no top at all. I need the safari top for protection against the sun in the hottest part of the summer, or else I would just go totally topless.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
As for the map for Jawbone Canyon, is the Kern county map from ACSC good enough, or do you have something better that you recommend? Per your suggestion, I got the books, but haven't hit many trails yet.
Sorry about your rear main leak, but it might be smart to take it to an indenpent mechanic for a "second opinion." I know the dealership is planning to fix it under warranty and all, but it will still be an inconvenience for you, and there's always the potential that their "fix" might not be properly done.
I KNOW that dealership service departments sometimes push for repairs that are not necessary, just to have some business for the shop. I have a friend that was fired as a service writer because he was not "inventing" enough service work that the customers needed to have performed.
I wouldn't think it would cost you much for an independent to just take a look and give you his opinion. Have you been seeing oil in the driveway where the Jeep has been parked?
I guess I'm just cynical, but it's possible that you DON'T have a problem now, but you COULD have a problem if the new seal is not intalled properly.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Anyone have any other ideas, thoughts, comments, dissertations or remarks as to how i could solve this?
Just a thought.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Terry