Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,658

    My point is that even the most popular car out there is a small percentage of the total number of cars sold. So much so that even if half of the population found a car ugly there would be enough people available in the other half that only a small percentage of them need to buy the car to make it successful.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,658

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    Nor would I but at the time the public rejected the "coffin nose" design.

    Well first of all I think the public at large was weary of the price tag on the Cord, that with the fact that it came out just before the start of the great depression didn't help it any. Not to mention that for such an expensive car it had loads of mechanical issues. Styling really wasn't it's issue.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,939
    edited April 2014

    @graphicguy said:
    For reasons that everyone has already stated, A Toyota hasn't been anywhere remotely on my radar for quite a few years. Can't think of any reason why that will change.

    I lost interest in things Toyota once they axed the 2nd Gen MR2 and the Twin Turbo Supra. I kind of like the FR-S, but it needs 50-75 more hp. They need to fix the atrocious sound system as well.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,328

    @driver100 said:

    The rumor going around has it that Sterling was indeed set up so that he would be forced to sell the Clippers at a fire sale price. Magic Johnson was named as the interested buyer even though he denies it.

    The girlfriend was also seen schmoozing with a rival team owner.

    It also seems that she may have committed a criminal act because CA requires all parties to a conversation be aware it is being recorded.

    Always follow the money.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,328

    @abacomike said:
    driver100 said:


    I just can't understand Toyota's marketing strategy. Huyandai and Kia have out styled and outperformed (engine-wise) Toyota for several years now. I see many, many more Sonatas down here now than I do Camry's. I realize Toyota sells more cars and SUV's than Huyandai and Kia, but what is so difficult about designing the Camry so that it actually looks good?

    Maybe some day the'll figure it out.

    Maybe it has something to do with that Southeast Regional monopoly distribution system where cars come loaded up with expensive add-ons. I understand that if you're looking for a cheap car down south you shop elsewhere.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 12,075
    @oldfarmer50‌ said:

    "Maybe it has something to do with that Southeast Regional monopoly distribution system where cars come loaded up with expensive add-ons. I understand that if you're looking for a cheap car down south you shop elsewhere"

    Southeast Toyota is owned by the JM FAMILY ENTERPRISES (Jim Moran who started with a huge Ford Dealership in Chicago). They are located in Deerfield Beach Florida. They also own JM Lexus, highest volume Lexus dealership in the world.

    I really don't know how their Toyotas are equipped, OF. I know that Al Hendrickson Toyota here in Coconut Creek is a huge volume dealership (across from JM Lexus) and their average Camry is priced competitively in the upper teens. Most of the Camry's and Corollas bought in my condo community come from there.

    They have 10 acres of new cars on their lots. But I have never heard that they over-equip their cars for higher profit margins. Where did you hear that, Oldfarmer?

    2021 Genesis G90

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482

    Not a valid comparison in my opinion. Both the Airflow and the Cord were technologically advanced for their time, and also performed in a manner superior to their competitors (I've driven an Airflow, and it drives 10X better than a 30s Ford--I mean, really, mechanical brakes in the 1930S??)

    The Aztek was so unloved no one even cared to defend it. It had very little going for it to even justify its existence. It wasn't even FUN to mock it.

    And you know, adjusted for inflation, an Edsel still isn't worth all that much unless it were a restored convertible. Many can be bought for the price of a used Hyundai.

    the Aztek is just a "loser". There's nothing charming about it.

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    What would you pay today for an "ugly" Chrysler Airstream or a Cord?

  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,805

    @abacomike said:
    oldfarmer50‌ said:

    "Maybe it has something to do with that Southeast Regional monopoly distribution system where cars come loaded up with expensive add-ons. I understand that if you're looking for a cheap car down south you shop elsewhere"

    Southeast Toyota is owned by the JM FAMILY ENTERPRISES (Jim Moran who started with a huge Ford Dealership in Chicago). They are located in Deerfield Beach Florida. They also own JM Lexus, highest volume Lexus dealership in the world.

    They have 10 acres of new cars on their lots. But I have never heard that they over-equip their cars for higher profit margins. Where did you hear that, Oldfarmer?

    I recall in other threads here at Edmunds' complaints of SET adding required accessories and mop and glow to all their cars which raised the prices when compared to other parts of the country.

  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,805

    @oldfarmer50 said:
    The rumor going around has it that Sterling was indeed set up so that he would be forced to sell the Clippers at a fire sale price. Magic Johnson was named as the interested buyer even though he denies it.

    The NBA board of governors can force a sale but Sterling doesn't have to give it away. Magic Johnson was named as an interested buyer because he is backed by the Guggenheim Partners which owns the LA Dodgers.

    One fly in the ointment is that his estranged wife is part owner of the team - the NBA can't force her to sell.

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 12,075
    edited April 2014
    @robr2‌ said:

    "I recall in other threads here at Edmunds' complaints of SET adding required accessories and mop and glow to all their cars which raised the prices when compared to other parts of the country."

    I would think that if Toyota knew this was happening, they would put some pressure on SET to discontinue that practice - very much like price fixing. Wouldn't the federal government be interested in a distributor setting pricing above other distributors in other markets in a monopolistic manner - smells of some anti-trust shenanigans, doesn't it.

    They have a mini-monopoly granted by Toyota in the distributorship contract. Again, a kind of unfair control over I recall in other threads here at Edmunds' complaints of SET adding required accessories and mop and glow to all their cars which raised the prices when compared to other parts of the country.pricing in a market segment.

    SET also distributes Lexus as well. But their own Lexus Dealership sells Lexus Vehicles for less than any other Lexus Dealership. It just doesn't seem to make any sense.

    2021 Genesis G90

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,328

    @abacomike said:
    oldfarmer50‌ said:

    "Maybe it has something to do with that Southeast Regional monopoly distribution system where cars come loaded up with expensive add-ons. I understand that if you're looking for a cheap car down south you shop elsewhere"

    Southeast Toyota is owned by the JM FAMILY ENTERPRISES (Jim Moran who started with a huge Ford Dealership in Chicago). They are located in Deerfield Beach Florida. They also own JM Lexus, highest volume Lexus dealership in the world.

    I really don't know how their Toyotas are equipped, OF. I know that Al Hendrickson Toyota here in Coconut Creek is a huge volume dealership (across from JM Lexus) and their average Camry is priced competitively in the upper teens. Most of the Camry's and Corollas bought in my condo community come from there.

    They have 10 acres of new cars on their lots. But I have never heard that they over-equip their cars for higher profit margins. Where did you hear that, Oldfarmer?

    Right here on edmunds forums.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,436

    I just wanted to pass along some good news. A few months ago, I posted my concerns about AT&T wanting to put up a 120' cell tower in very close proximity to my residence. I am happy to report that due to public support, neighbors sticking together, & pressure from our lawyer, AT&T has decided to "withdraw its application for a tower facility..." So needless to say, I'm very excited!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Unlimited 4Xe

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,098

    good job. There really must be some other, less objectionable, place they can put it. without the fight would also be cheaper and quicker to do.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 12,075
    @nyccarguy said:

    "AT&T has decided to "withdraw its application for a tower facility..." So needless to say, I'm very excited!"

    Bradd, that's terrific news. It happens so seldom that a community triumphs over big business and big government.

    Let's hope that AT&T continues to be sensitive to the wants and desires of the communities they serve.

    Again - great news Bradd!

    2021 Genesis G90

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @nyccarguy said:
    I am happy to report that due to public support, neighbors sticking together, & pressure from our lawyer, AT&T has decided to "withdraw its application for a tower facility..."

    Congratulations nyc......you fought and won which must feel very good.

    Of course, you could have insisted that AT&T camaflouge the communications tower:

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  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    Or, this one looks pretty real........

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    Talking about design, I found this list of the 10 ugliest cars sold in Canada. They had a panel of 17 Judges. #10 surprised me, because I thought the 2014 Jeep Cherokee was one of the nicer looking SUVs. But, since it was on the list, I am beginning to wonder about that electric razor look front end.

    One panelist said, "Looks too much like my Grade 9 high school photo. Before I got my braces off."

    9 is a Scion;

    The #1 ugliest was the Juke.
    See the others at 10 ugliest cars sold in Canada

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Greater BostonMember Posts: 2,912
    edited April 2014

    Keeping the discussion related to cars Donald Sterling’s ex-girlfriend (V. Stiviano) did well for herself.

    At a minimum, she received from the relationship a Ferrari, two Bentleys and a Range Rover. It is reported that the vehicles are worth in excess of $500,000.

    I guess one Bentley is just not enough, I am surprised she did not add a Tesla Model S to her stable. Perhaps she is waiting for the 2015 Model X SUV

  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,805
    edited April 2014

    @abacomike said:
    robr2‌ said:

    "I recall in other threads here at Edmunds' complaints of SET adding required accessories and mop and glow to all their cars which raised the prices when compared to other parts of the country."

    I would think that if Toyota knew this was happening, they would put some pressure on SET to discontinue that practice - very much like price fixing. Wouldn't the federal government be interested in a distributor setting pricing above other distributors in other markets in a monopolistic manner - smells of some anti-trust shenanigans, doesn't it.

    It's not an anti-trust issue because SET doesn't create a monopolistic environment on the market for cars. Consumers don't have to buy a Toyota or Lexus - there are plenty of other options available.

    @abacomike said:
    They have a mini-monopoly granted by Toyota in the distributorship contract. Again, a kind of unfair control over I recall in other threads here at Edmunds' complaints of SET adding required accessories and mop and glow to all their cars which raised the prices when compared to other parts of the country.pricing in a market segment.

    SET also distributes Lexus as well. But their own Lexus Dealership sells Lexus Vehicles for less than any other Lexus Dealership. It just doesn't seem to make any sense.

    The issue isn't apparent when street prices are compared between dealers in the Southeast. It's when the prices are compared across the country.

    Toyota vehicles in the southeast have a higher MSRP due to mandatory accessories when compared to other areas of the country. SET often puts Toyogard on Toyotas ($640) as well as other "port options" and has a higher destination fee (+$50) than other parts of the country. For instance, in the southeast, keyless entry on a Camry LE is a $259 port accessory - in New England it's a standard feature.

    Lexus vehicles from SET have fewer option packages (SET 3 vs 5 in New England) and those packages start at much higher prices ($3900 vs $2800 on the ES). Gulf States Toyota does the same thing.

    AFAIK, one won't find a Toyota in the SE or Gulf States without at least one port installed option.

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @bwia said: two Bentleys and a Range Rover. It is reported that the vehicles are worth in excess of $500,000.

    >

    What a cheapskate, the guy has billions and that's all he can afford for his girlfriend.

    The guy is dispicable, and the penalty is a fitting one, not sure it will stick though;

    • There are freedom of speach laws,

    • He was recorded without his knowledge

    • Can you force someone to sell their business in the USA?

    • If 3/4s of the owners can kick someone out what prevents them from doing it to someone else they don't like?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,328

    @nyccarguy said:
    I just wanted to pass along some good news. A few months ago, I posted my concerns about AT&T wanting to put up a 120' cell tower in very close proximity to my residence. I am happy to report that due to public support, neighbors sticking together, & pressure from our lawyer, AT&T has decided to "withdraw its application for a tower facility..." So needless to say, I'm very excited!

    Nice to hear that the little guy can win.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • robr2robr2 BostonMember Posts: 8,805
    edited April 2014

    @driver100 said:
    What a cheapskate, the guy has billions and that's all he can afford for his girlfriend.

    The guy is dispicable, and the penalty is a fitting one, not sure it will stick though;

    There are freedom of speach laws,

    He was recorded without his knowledge

    Can you force someone to sell their business in the USA?

    If 3/4s of the owners can kick someone out what prevents them from doing it to someone else they don't like?

    Points:

    don't forget the $1.4 million he gave her for a condo in Beverly Hills

    yes - he can say whatever he wants

    he has yet to say if he was recorded without his knowledge - the mistress has 100 hours of recordings which she claims he agreed to in order to help jog his memory

    AFAIK, you can't force anyone to sell their business unless there is some sort of contractual obligation which the NBA constitution has: Under the terms of Paragraph 13 of the constitution, NBA owners also have the right, by three-fourths vote, to revoke ownership if an owner “fails to fulfill” a “contractual obligation” in “such a way as to affect the [NBA] or its members adversely.”

    The NBA constitution spells out the ways to oust an owner. Mere dislike may not be enough - if it was, Mark Cuban would have been forced out years ago. Further it requires the same 3/4 approval to allow someone to own a team.

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @robr2 said: three-fourths vote, to revoke ownership if an owner “fails to fulfill” a “contractual obligation” in “such a way as to affect the [NBA] or its members adversely.

    Interesting! I guess he could tie them up in court for a long time though if he wants to

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    This headline caught my eye:
    Shale Boom Sends U.S. Crude Supply to Highest Since 1930s

    The U.S. is stockpiling the most crude since the Great Depression, thanks to the shale boom that has boosted production to the most in 26 years.

    Inventories rose 3.52 million barrels last week to 397.7 million, the highest level since 1931, according to Energy Information Administration data going back to 1920. Crude output climbed 59,000 barrels a day to 8.36 million, the most since January 1988, as the combination of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, unlocked supplies from shale formations in the central U.S., including the Bakken in North Dakota and the Eagle Ford in Texas.

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTMember Posts: 15,436

    @driver100‌

    Don't laugh, but the second picture you posted is called "the lone pine." That's what they were planning on putting up. It does resemble a tree, but would stick up literally 60' above the top of every other tree around.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Unlimited 4Xe

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246

    @driver100 said:

    This guy has been doing and saying things like this for 20 years and the NBA has turned a blind eye. The difference here is that the spotlight was on them and they over reacted, IMO.

    I think we are becoming a nation of double standards and hypocrites. Some people can get away with almost anything while others get slapped down for just opening their mouths. Spike Lee is a notorious black racist and has publicly stated that he would like to get a gun and start shooting white people and that bloodshed is the only answer. He is currently a host on NBA radio and stars in NBA commercials. He was also very vocal in calling for the most severe punishment for Sterling.

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461
    edited April 2014

    @houdini1 said:

    I think we are becoming a nation of double standards and hypocrites. Some people can get away with almost anything while others get slapped down for just opening their mouths.

    Indeed. The same media that can't worry about 4 dead people and lies about Benghazi and can't worry about the IRS scandal and can't worry about the truth and lack of transparency by the Admin worries terribly about an old codger who got fooled by a cute young thing.

    Indeed, that's thanks to the media's slant or lack of reporting what they don't want the uninformed voters to hear about. An early example was the crucifixion of Gov. Palin when her campaign used the target symbol and word; the opposition along with the media's aid jumped all over that. Yet later I heard and saw various campaigns use the word target in their materials. But they were on the PC side as far as the media, so that was fine. Never heard them reported with the same tone of voice by the Diane Sawyer types. Same for the 2012 election.

    The racism hoopla is much overdone. When they target Sharpton and Jackson(s) for what they do wrong, I'll begin to give some credibility. Otherwise, this just falls in the 3 topics the Administration will use for the Midterms and likely 2012: women are underpaid (statistically they aren't when all details are taken into account), Republicans all want to keep some unknown minority from voting by requiring voter ID, and there is rampant racism only on the part of white men against certain minorities.

    With these 3 topics the Admin hopes to pettifog the issues so voters don't actually look at the facts, such as the Obamacare debacle and costs along with the poor economy. Add onto the facts the lies by the Admin: save $2500, keep your doctor, keep your insurance, usw.

    I think they've lost the young folks that carried them through the last two major elections. The campaign spent a fortune on campuses and ads toward young, gullible voters.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,488
    edited April 2014

    @driver100 said:
    The guy is dispicable, and the penalty is a fitting one, not sure it will stick though; There are freedom of speach laws, He was recorded without his knowledge. Can you force someone to sell their business in the USA? If 3/4s of the owners can kick someone out what prevents them from doing it to someone else they don't like?

    Well...it has been done before. Marge Schott, who was the owner of the Cincinnati Reds in the 90s, was forced to sell the team after news leaked tghat she had [non-permissible content removed] memorabilia in her home, and that she privately said racist remarks about some Reds players.

    She said Major League Baseball forced her out because she was a strong woman owner in a male donminated "boys club".

    Truth on both sides of that one. There was also a political fight going on regading who would profit from the "new" (at the time) Reds ballpark. Politicians wanted it on the Ohio River. Ms. Schott was frugal and wanted to put it in a depressed area to revitalize that part of the city. She lost that fight and the team.

    Never underestimate what your enemies will do when lots of power and money are at stake.

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461

    @houdini1 said:
    Spike Lee is a notorious black racist and has publicly stated that he would like to get a gun and start shooting white people and that bloodshed is the only answer. He is currently a host on NBA radio and stars in NBA commercials. He was also very vocal in calling for the most severe punishment for Sterling.

    Now that's terrible. He should be investigated by the government. Think Holder will take care of it? There's more chance of the the NHTSA ordering all folks with weak ignition switches in their GM cars in the recall get a replacement vehicle free from GM--new Cruze for all Cobalt owners!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bwiabwia Greater BostonMember Posts: 2,912

    @imidazol97 said:
    look at the facts, such as the Obamacare debacle and costs along with the poor economy. Add onto the facts the lies by the Admin: save $2500, keep your doctor, keep your insurance, usw.

    My first long (research) paper in college was on the National Health Insurance System in the United Kingdom. Many Brits were against it and they predicted a doomsday scenario. Today, not one Brit is willing to give up their (free ?) national health system. I am not sure about Canada but I believe their sentiments are the same as the Brits.

    As to economy is not doing well. That statement is not entirely true. The economy is doing exceptionally well but the fundamentals of the American economic structure has changed. Here is why: While businesses have become more profitable than ever, that increased profitability does not however, translate into new jobs.....because the increase in profitability has come from increased efficiency and productivity. Basically, doing more with less human resources. Blame that on technological innovation but not on government policy.

    If you carry this logic to its ultimate conclusion you can begin to see why the income (wealth) gap is growing faster than it did before.

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @nyccarguy said:Don't laugh, but the second picture you posted is called "the lone pine."

    I did laugh...those phony trees look, well, uh, kind of ..................phony!

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  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @houdini1 said:Spike Lee is a notorious black racist and has publicly stated that he would like to get a gun and start shooting white people

    GG-Marge Schott, who was the owner of the Cincinnati Reds in the 90s, was forced to sell the team after news leaked tghat she had [non-permissible content removed] memorabilia in her home, and that she privately said racist remarks about some Reds players

    IMID When they target Sharpton and Jackson(s) for what they do wrong,

    Good comments guys.....something to think about.

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  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536

    @bwia said: Today, not one Brit is willing to give up their (free ?) national health system. I am not sure about Canada but I believe their sentiments are the same as the Brits.

    Canadians would say the same, although costly and not working 100%, much better to have it than not.. Personally, I don't think it was the right time for the USA to adopt a health plan....during and while recovering from a recession.

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  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 12,075

    @driver100 said:
    I don't think it was the right time for the USA to adopt a health plan....during and while recovering from a recession.

    It was going to happen, no matter what could have been done to avoid it. Democrats had both houses of congress - which is all one needs to pass that kind of legislation.

    What is going to hurt is Medicare ($50 billion a year less to care for a growing retired population), middle and upper middle income families who are paying more for health insurance now than they did before the AHC was made active, a growing Federal Government that costs hundreds of billions of dollars to run, just to name a few. Add to that the growing Federal Regulations that limit just about everything that could improve the economy.

    Even if the Congress becomes Republican and the next POTUS is a republican, the AHC program will continue just like Social Security, Medicate, Medicaid, etc. have. Once you provide an entitlement, it is impossible to stop it. Obamacare will live on until the Federal Gov't is bankrupt, which should be in about 20 years. After that, we will go the way of Ancient
    Greece and Ancient Rome. I won't be around when it does end, but unfortunately my children and grandchildren will be. And they are the ones who are going to suffer.

    Look at it this way - how much debt would it take to end the United States as we know it today or knew it yesterday? $20 Trillion, $30 Trillion? That's just around the corner. And no one is doing anything about the spending.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482

    RE: AT&T -- you don't know how lucky you are. ATT is actually suing my city for the right to put a tower up, and the government regulations are very much stacked in ATT's favor. In effect, a municipality cannot deny such a tower unless they can demonstrate immediate danger to the public----and unfortunately, there is no reliable data on the harm of microwave radiation from being in proximity of cell towers to post such a defense.

    here's the direct quote from the Telecommunications Act of 1996:

    "No state or local government or instrumentality may regulate the placement, construction, and modification of personal wireless service facilities on the basis of the environmental effects of radio frequency emissions" (as long as they comply with federal safety standards.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482

    Don't forget the profligate spending on foreign adventurism and useless weapons, as well as corporate welfare. Healthcare is hardly the biggest elephant in the room here, although it's big enough. Consider the incredible treasure laid waste in the jungles and desert sands of far off places we no longer even care about.

    @abacomike said:

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,098

    My opinion is that the health reform act should have gone all the way or not at all. The system gad problems, and OC created as many as it solved. Of course the entire fed govt system needs overhaul. But for healthcare, probably better to scrap everything and start over. Medicare and Medicade would have just disappeared, folded into a single system. In a way, it would be like all citizens joining Medicare!

    Next I'll tackle tax reform. Flat tax on a postcard.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461

    @stickguy said:
    The system gad problems, and OC created as many as it solved. Of course the entire fed govt system needs overhaul. But for healthcare, probably better to scrap everything and start over.

    Problem is the lie that OC fixes healthcare system and reducing costs which are growing much faster than the rate of inflation. Instead it is attacking the insurance portion, not the cost of getting an MRI, e.g.. It's turning the insurance part into an expensive one-payer system which won't work as it's eliminating the private health insurance companies. All of the insurance ends up with big government, who can hand out goodies and benefits as the adminstration currently in office sees fit. I recall in the 60s/70s Sen. Metzenbaum and Sen. Taft promising each election to increase benefits from SS if only the seniors and soon-to-be seniors would vote them back into their office again. Hold onto your hats folks.

    Next I'll tackle tax reform. Flat tax on a postcard.

    That's easier... !!! LOL

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461
    edited April 2014

    Add Oprah to my list of other siders along with Sharpton and Jackson(s) from my post several back. She threw out the "plantation" charge against Sterling. She herself is a plantation. Look at how she held onto the house she "gave" to her father and his then wife; she kept it in her name rather than giving it to him. Now she's kicking the ex-stepmother out after she bought the ex-stepmother's house because father and stepmother had to hock it to refurbish father's barber shop in Nashville--no money from Oprah to help.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2607910/EXCLUSIVE-Negroes-house-Negroes-house-Oprah-shouted-father-wife-arrived-She-reminding-low-class-says-Oprahs-bitter-stepmother-explosive-interview.html

    Oprah didn't part with a dime--she made money because she bought the stepmothers previous house after letting it go to foreclosure. What a piece of work Oprah is.

    She she gave us Obama by having him on her show and pushing him early.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246
    edited April 2014

    @[email protected] said:
    That comment is totally out of context---Spike Lee was talking about conditions in South Africa in the 1990s, when he visited there. Hardly the same thing as wanting to randomly shoot Americans in 2014. Racist he may or may not be, but let's be accurate in our quotes.

    Sorry, but the quote was accurate. It may be your opinion that the quote was out of context, but it seemed to be pretty definitive to me. Following your thinking, I am sure old man Sterling has had some bad experiences in his long life, so I guess you would excuse him also?

    Here is another recent quote from Spike Lee. " I give interracial couples a look. Daggers. They get uncomfortable when they see me on the street."

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusMember Posts: 13,488
    edited April 2014

    @driver100 said:
    This headline caught my eye:
    Shale Boom Sends U.S. Crude Supply to Highest Since 1930s

    The U.S. is stockpiling the most crude since the Great Depression, thanks to the shale boom that has boosted production to the most in 26 years.

    Inventories rose 3.52 million barrels last week to 397.7 million, the highest level since 1931, according to Energy Information Administration data going back to 1920. Crude output climbed 59,000 barrels a day to 8.36 million, the most since January 1988, as the combination of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, unlocked supplies from shale formations in the central U.S., including the Bakken in North Dakota and the Eagle Ford in Texas.

    Driver...this is part of the Bloomberg article I mentioned a week or so ago.

    This explodes the myth that we're dependent on OPEC, and that there is a scarcity of oil. Both excuses used by big oil for years to prop up retail prices.

    The article mentions 1988, at the time the price per bbl of oil was about $12.60. Adjusted for inflation that is about $25/bbl in 2010 dollars.

    2022 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,098

    Would help to gave more refining capacity, and fewer unique blends.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,461
    edited April 2014

    @bwia said:

    As to economy is not doing well. That statement is not entirely true. The economy is doing exceptionally well but the fundamentals of the American economic structure has changed.

    Despite the government spending and buying our own debt The Washington Post says: GNP only grew 0.01% instead of 1.2% hoped for.

    "The nation's gross domestic product expanded at a meager 0.1 percent annual rate in the first quarter -- well below the forecasts for 1.2 percent growth. The slowdown reflected weaker exports, a decline in business investment and cuts in state and local government spending, among other things. The recovery was propped up by strong consumer spending, driven in part by health-care spending after the implementation of the Affordable Care Act."

    The economy is doing exceptionally well but the fundamentals of the American economic structure has changed.

    All the people without jobs in an economy with the smallest number of workers in many decades will be glad to hear how well the economy is doing. :grin:

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,077

    @stickguy said:

    Next I'll tackle tax reform. Flat tax on a postcard.

    That's a lot of lawyers, accountants, H&R Block, Intuit and governemnt bureaucrats to tackle. Good luck!

    A fond, but bittersweet adieu to my '13 Jaguar XF. And so, I present this laurel, and hearty handshake to the new boss; '21 Audi A7 PHEV. '09 Jag XK , '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco ; all special to me. And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... I've yet to buy a car I didn't like. Although, do I really want to drive a car that would have someone such as me as its owner?

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246

    @stickguy said:
    Next I'll tackle tax reform. Flat tax on a postcard.

    Lol, the postcard will read: How much did you make? Send it in.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490

    @[email protected] said:
    Don't forget the profligate spending on foreign adventurism and useless weapons, as well as corporate welfare. Healthcare is hardly the biggest elephant in the room here, although it's big enough. Consider the incredible treasure laid waste in the jungles and desert sands of far off places we no longer even care about.

    It appears the "Stories from the sales front lines" has evolved into "stories from the Fox News headlines"...

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 4,077

    @busiris said:

    Well, the US Government, Inc. is always trying to sell us something! ;)

    A fond, but bittersweet adieu to my '13 Jaguar XF. And so, I present this laurel, and hearty handshake to the new boss; '21 Audi A7 PHEV. '09 Jag XK , '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco ; all special to me. And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... I've yet to buy a car I didn't like. Although, do I really want to drive a car that would have someone such as me as its owner?

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,536
    edited April 2014

    graphicguy said: The article mentions 1988, at the time the price per bbl of oil was about $12.60. Adjusted for inflation that is about $25/bbl in 2010 dollars

    Gas cost 91 cents a gallon in 1988, a movie $3.50, a dozen eggs 65cents. Prices are up about 2 1/2 times, so gas should be about $2.50 a gallon. Maybe add an extra 5 to 10 cents because now we have summer grade gas (needs a different formula to produce less pollution in the summer).

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaMember Posts: 12,075
    @driver100 said:

    "Gas cost 91 cents a gallon in 1988, a movie $3.50, a dozen eggs 65cents. Prices are up about 2 1/2 times..."

    What is most interesting is the government's reports of little or no inflation in the past 16 months. Who are we kidding?

    The government measures inflation after fuel, food and other major indicators have been eliminated. Has anyone noticed the prices on beef, chicken, pork, all dairy products, fresh produce, corn, to name a few? What about the cost of gasoline?

    How can the government not include increases in the prices of food and energy in their calculations to determine inflation? I guess for as long as they can hide these facts from the masses.

    What about the increases in the cost of medical insurance and the rise in the price of pharmaceuticals?

    All of us are paying significantly more for food and energy and shelter than we were 16 months ago.

    2021 Genesis G90

This discussion has been closed.