Unfortunately, my phone's battery was on its last legs by this point, and I think this was the last pic I took before it died. We didn't even notice the truck until fairly late in the day, as it was away from everything else. So, just as we were about to leave the show field to go get some dinner, we decided to drive up there, so yeah, that's my '67 in the background.
As for the truck, it was a Kenworth that looked about the same era as what was in the movie, and painted up in the same scheme...a very faithful replica! There was, naturally, a ton of Bandit Trans Ams. There were two LeManses, as well. The one in the pic above was pretty faithful, in even having the light blue interior that Buford's did. There was a second one that had a Grand LeMans interior in it.
Hopefully, these guys make another appearance at the GM show in 2015!
I always loved that truck and trailer with the mural, for a semi, it is almost stylish. That police car is pretty cool. You should make something like that. There's a cult of people who make movie themed cars. One could also make a Christine or a BTTF DeLorean, but prices spiral upwards quickly.
For odd cars, I saw an immaculate Catera today.
@andre1969 said:
Unfortunately, my phone's battery was on its last legs by this point, and I think this was the last pic I took before it died
There was a '77 Grand LeMans sedan that used to show up every year at the GM show, that was a lighter, more period-correct brown with a buckskin interior. It was in pretty good shape, and I always thought it would make a good starting point for a replica of Buford's car. I remember it had a 301 under the hood.
In fact, I wondered for a moment if the one replica I saw might have been that Grand LeMans? I hadn't seen that car at the GM show for a few years.
I wonder how hard it would be to find a decent-shape '76-77 LeMans sedan nowadays, to do a conversion like that? The LeMans wasn't a very popular car by that time...only around 96K built for '76 and around 80K for '77. And that's ALL body styles and trim levels: coupe, sedan, wagon, base, Sport Coupe, Grand. In contrast, I think they built around 288K Grand Prixes in '76 and 228 in '77.
Maybe I could start a collection of Smokey and the Bandit police car replicas. In addition to the LeMans I'd need an '80 Bonneville sedan (plus a '75-76 hardtop sedan for a stunt double), and an '83 or so Bonneville G.
That would be a new project once the DeSoto is finished. You like Smokey and you like old Pontiacs, sounds like a good match. Probably wouldn't be too expensive either.
You'll also need a taxidermy shark for the III replica
Andre, when I bought my 76 Cutlass new I also looked at the Buick. But the car I liked best initially (based on looks) was the Pontiac Lemans coupes. Now this may have just been an aberration of the Chicago area dealership market back then, but the reason I bought the Olds was that the Pontiac dealers wanted close to Buick prices and I didn't think it should even cost as much as my Cutlass Supreme based on content and interior. The Pontiac dealers weren't discounting much. The Lemans gave you the Pontiac V8, but it seemed kind of just an upgraded Malibu inside compared to the Olds and Buick.
@berri said:
Andre, when I bought my 76 Cutlass new I also looked at the Buick. But the car I liked best initially (based on looks) was the Pontiac Lemans coupes. Now this may have just been an aberration of the Chicago area dealership market back then, but the reason I bought the Olds was that the Pontiac dealers wanted close to Buick prices and I didn't think it should even cost as much as my Cutlass Supreme based on content and interior. The Pontiac dealers weren't discounting much.
I found comparably equipped cars were priced within $50 of each other. I compared the Buick and Olds along with Pontiac when shopping in 76 and 77 model years. I used Edmunds to compare the pricing. It was as if from line to line and model to model every little thing was added to the value in the price, such as better soundproofing in the floor. All 3 cars seemed to be strictly beancounter pricing. The dealers then pushed the market in their area.
Remember back then when you'd buy a paper Edmunds guide to prepare for car buying? The neat part was that all different vehicles were in their pages, so you could dream a little too!
@berri said:
Remember back then when you'd buy a paper Edmunds guide to prepare for car buying? The neat part was that all different vehicles were in their pages, so you could dream a little too!
That's what I used. I can't remember the first car for which I used the pricing guide. Maybe '73 Ford? Had Edmund's started by then? I'm sure for the '77 Cutlass.
@berri said:
Andre, when I bought my 76 Cutlass new I also looked at the Buick. But the car I liked best initially (based on looks) was the Pontiac Lemans coupes. Now this may have just been an aberration of the Chicago area dealership market back then, but the reason I bought the Olds was that the Pontiac dealers wanted close to Buick prices and I didn't think it should even cost as much as my Cutlass Supreme based on content and interior. The Pontiac dealers weren't discounting much. The Lemans gave you the Pontiac V8, but it seemed kind of just an upgraded Malibu inside compared to the Olds and Buick.
I think the '76 version of the base LeMans line and sport coupe is especially attractive. I like the simpler grille that has sort of a crosshair theme to it. In fact, I bought a set of those inserts back in 2005, to put on my car. Sure, it wouldn't be correct, but my '76 Grand LeMans is sporting a '77 Grand LeMans grille anyway, so it's not correct right now, anyway.
But, the inside of the base LeMans, and Sport Coupe, isn't all that ritzy. I like the design of the dash, but it seems like it has a lot of cheap plastics. The Grand LeMans used the Grand Prix dashboard, which had a much more expensive look and feel to it. The Grand LeMans has a really nice vinyl interior, with thick padding on the door panels, carpeting on the lower parts (just like the Regal and Cutlass Supreme Brougham), and nicely done seats. However, I don't think the Grand LeMans offered a cloth interior that was all that luxurious...it almost seems like vinyl was the top dog. Now, I've seen Grand Prixes with nice crushed velour seats, but I think the only Grand LeMans cloth I've ever seen was sort of a corduroy pattern, similar to an '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe I had.
I thought the Cutlass Supreme managed to pull off a pretty nice interior, even in more basic form. And the Brougham models were downright opulent. With Buick though, I never really cared for that vinyl they used. It had a heavy duty, durable look to it, but it sort of reminded me of what they would use to cover the seats in a police car or school bus with. And it seemed like it was very popular in the Buicks...I can't even recall what a '73-77 Century or Regal with a cloth interior would look like.
I wish Pontiac had offered the large, triangular rear windows in '76-77 on the LeMans. By that time, they only offered the louvered windows, or the opera windows. But, by that time, I think those triangular windows were on their way out, as everybody wanted the luxury look. IIRC, in 1976-77, the Century even started offering the more formal coupe roofline with the opera window and vee'd rear window, that was used on the Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, and Regal.
Oh, as for '76 LeMans sedans, how about this...
I can just hear Buford T. Justice now, saying "What in the hell is the world comin' to?"
Still, I'd rather see someone do this to the car, and get some enjoyment out of it, rather than it just get used up, junked, and crushed. I'd imagine the owner of this car put a lot of time, money, and effort into it!
@imidazol97, I was thinking 50s but this page says the paper guides date from the 1960s. The oldest guide I see currently on eBay is 1969. Someone is selling a new Edmunds.com hat there too that they must have gotten as a spiff.
Happens every time one of those dancers....oh, I'll stop now.
I have at least tolerance for the "donk" movement for that - some cars are sketchy, but many have a lot of work put into them, and as you say, someone is enjoying a car that would otherwise just be junked. It could be worse.
@andre1969 said:
Still, I'd rather see someone do this to the car, and get some enjoyment out of it, rather than it just get used up, junked, and crushed. I'd imagine the owner of this car put a lot of time, money, and effort into it!
Just out of curiosity, when somebody does that kind of stuff to a car, like the '76 LeMans above, how hard would it be to put it back to stock? Would they have done much in the way of suspension mods, and if so, is it stuff that can easily be undone?
I'm sure there are AACA members that would crucify me over this, but if that car happened to fall into my hands, somehow, I'd actually be willing to tolerate those doors. Provided they would open reliably, that is.
I think they are all just suspension mods at best, or maybe the more affluent donkers might rebuild or swap an engine. I suspect a good number of them don't even get proper suspension mods - which no doubt can be dangerous with unsprung weight issues.
I don't see any harm done with the doors, not like it's a full AACA classic or something. It's fun for someone.
@berri said:
Remember back then when you'd buy a paper Edmunds guide to prepare for car buying? The neat part was that all different vehicles were in their pages, so you could dream a little too!
I remember taking a guide out from the library and reading it cover to cover. Then I would use the guide to price out each car (MSRP and invoice) as I would equip it and then compare them head to head against their competitors. Monte Carlo vs. Thunderbird, Camaro vs Mustang, et al. had notebooks full of information. Too bad I was 12 years old.....
I wish I could find puctures of my '77 LeMans Sport Coupe. I owned it from '81 to '86. Light blue metallic body with a white-painted top as a factory 2-tone (those must have been getting rare by then) with a white vinyl interior, bench seats, blue dash, steering wheel and carpets. It was a nice looking if basic car. PS, PB, AM radio, wheel covers, whitewalls, that's about all. I will need to poke around in my old color slides and see if there are any pics.
There's a Can Am that shows up pretty regularly at the Carlisle GM show. I think I took a pic of it this time around; I'll get that stuff loaded up soon! I guess by 1977, the Can Am was about as close to a musclecar as you could get. 200 hp 400 V-8, and I think it had a rear end of around 3.23:1. In contrast, the stock 400 in a LeMans, Grand Prix, or Catalina/Bonneville that year had 180 hp and was most likely stuck with a tall 2.41:1 axle unless you got a towing package.
I just pulled up a Dodge Charger brochure from 1977, and it shows a 400-4bbl V-8 being offered. I think it had 190 hp, and was offered with a 2.45:1, 2.76:1, or 3.23:1 axle. It, and the sister Cordoba, were probably still pretty quick, maybe as quick as the Can Am, with the 400-4bbl/3.23 setup? I've seen some sources mention a 440 with 245 hp, but by this time, I think that was only offered in police cars.
Was Olds doing anything worth mentioning with the 442/Hurst by 1977? I know they had a 403 with 185 hp that was optional in the Cutlass, and also offered in the Delta 88/98, and in the Toronado had 200 hp. But I can't remember if the 442 was anything all that exciting by '77.
Mopar was also shoving a fairly hot 360-4bbl in the Aspen/Volare, coming up with the Aspen R/T and Volare Roadrunner. Probably an insult to the big block Roadrunners that came before, but it was probably pretty quick, by 1977 standards.
It's kind of a shame that GM didn't do anything with the downsized B-bodies, at least until the 1994-96 LT-1 cars. I thought the '77-79 Impala and Catalina coupes were pretty sharp looking...would've made a nice basis for a revived Impala SS and Catalina 2+2. Well, Buick did offer the LeSabre sport coupe with a turbo for a couple years. I think it started with 150 hp, but then jumped to 165. Probably not as fast as a Chevy 350, Pontiac 400, or Olds 403 in one of these cars, but I'd guess it was about on par with the likes of the 301 and 305.
@andre1969 said:
There's a Can Am that shows up pretty regularly at the Carlisle GM show. I think I took a pic of it this time around; I'll get that stuff loaded up soon! I guess by 1977, the Can Am was about as close to a musclecar as you could get. 200 hp 400 V-8, and I think it had a rear end of around 3.23:1. In contrast, the stock 400 in a LeMans, Grand Prix, or Catalina/Bonneville that year had 180 hp and was most likely stuck with a tall 2.41:1 axle unless you got a towing package.
Grand Am?
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
@andre1969 said:
Still, I'd rather see someone do this to the car, and get some enjoyment out of it, rather than it just get used up, junked, and crushed. I'd imagine the owner of this car put a lot of time, money, and effort into it!
The Grand Am, with the right engine at least, was definitely more of a performer than the Can Am, but it was gone by '77. It only had a 3-year run...1973-75. They actually built one or two prototypes with a 310 net hp 455, and I think that engine may even have made it into some sales brochures, but at the last minute it was pulled. That engine did make it into the Trans Am, but I heard it ended up with 285 hp...still a lot by 1973 standards!
According to my old car book, the Grand Am was offered with a 175 hp 400-2bbl, a 185 hp 400-4bbl, a 230 hp 400-4bbl, and a 250 hp 455-4bbl. Interestingly, the Grand Am was supposed to come in as the new top dog, above the GTO, yet the GTO had the 230 hp 400 standard, with the 250 hp 455 optional. But, I guess the GTO was supposed to be more pure muscle (or what passed for it by '73) while the Grand Am was supposed to appeal to a wider audience, hence the wider choice of engines.
There was also a '73 GTO at the GM show, a black one that was really nice. I know it's way down on the list of desireability compared to earlier GTO's, but I thought it was still a handsome looking car...rugged and clean looking.
Spotted today - a ~68 Camaro with a Mecum front license plate, a 62 Cadillac coupe with similar wheels to that 68 Buick posted earlier, and a Geo Prizm 5 door.
@andre1969 said:
The Grand Am, with the right engine at least, was definitely more of a performer than the Can Am, but it was gone by '77. It only had a 3-year run...1973-75. They actually built one or two prototypes with a 310 net hp 455, and I think that engine may even have made it into some sales brochures, but at the last minute it was pulled. That engine did make it into the Trans Am, but I heard it ended up with 285 hp...still a lot by 1973 standards! According to my old car book, the Grand Am was offered with a 175 hp 400-2bbl, a 185 hp 400-4bbl, a 230 hp 400-4bbl, and a 250 hp 455-4bbl. Interestingly, the Grand Am was supposed to come in as the new top dog, above the GTO, yet the GTO had the 230 hp 400 standard, with the 250 hp 455 optional. But, I guess the GTO was supposed to be more pure muscle (or what passed for it by '73) while the Grand Am was supposed to appeal to a wider audience, hence the wider choice of engines.
You're right. For some reason I thought the Grand Am soldiered on a little longer than that. You are also right that the Grand Am was aimed at a wider audience. To wit, it was sold as being an 'international' design with 'sportier' handling and controls. It wasn't specifically sold as a performance car.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
The Pontiac Grand Am did make a return for 1978-80, on the downsized intermediate platform. In '78, it came with a 301-2bbl rated at 140 hp, or a 4-bbl rated at 155.
According to Wikipedia, for 1979 the base engine was downgraded to a Buick 231 V-6! Wow, talk about a slap in the face! You could still get a 301 though, now rated at 135 or 150 hp, depending on carb. And in an attempt to recapture the glory days, I guess, they offered a 4-on-the-floor with the 150 hp engine.
in 1980, they dropped all engines except the 301-4bbl (305-4bbl in California, as Pontiac V-8s got banned there starting in '77). Wikipedia says it had 170 hp, but I don't believe that for a moment...probably more like 145-155. However, I did hear that when they switched to computer controls for 1981, the 301-4bbl went to 170 hp, although it was "officially" rated at 150-155. Don't know if there's any truth to that, but GM did have a habit of finally getting something right in its final year or two, and then dropping it, and '81 was the 301's last year, so I wouldn't put it past them!
By '81 though, it looks like the 301-4bbl was only used in the Firebird/Trans Am, and LeMans wagons sold in California/high altitude areas. LeMans wagons in the rest of the country only offered a 301-2bbl as the top engine, and in sedans, coupes, and the Grand Prix, the biggest engine was just the tiny Pontiac 265-2bbl. In full-sized cars, the 301-2bbl was offered, but so was the Olds 307, and I think that was the more common engine.
I thought the 1981 LeMans was a pretty sharp looking car, with its sloping, Trans Am-inspired front end. It had a sporty look to it, although I guess it did clash a bit with the more formal roofline that the sedans adopted that year. Shame that the car lost any pretense of sportiness that year...no more Grand Am, nothing bigger than a 265, etc.
It's not much of a defense, but I guess all of the midsized offerings were doing the same thing by '81. I think the biggest engine you could get in an '81 Fairmont/Zephyr and Granada/Cougar was the little 255, although I think you could still get the 302 in a Thunderbird or Cougar. While marketed as a compact, the Fairmont was still the same size as a Granada, which by that time was being marketed as a midsize.
Over at Chrysler, their midsized cars still offered a 318-2bbl, but it only had 130 hp. And the likes of the LeBaron/Diplomat and Mirada/Cordoba were bigger and heavier than their Ford/GM competition. In California, they used a 318-4bbl that had around 165 hp...probably one of the rare instances that CA got a better engine than the other 49 states!
I guess GM may have even had a slight advantage with base engines, as the 229 and 231 V-6 had 110 hp at least, and the 231 was somewhat torquey. Meanwhile, the slant six only had 90 hp, and was not adapting well at all to emissions controls. And I think the Fords were using a 200 inline six with only 88 hp or something like that!
@andre1969 said:
It's not much of a defense, but I guess all of the midsized offerings were doing the same thing by '81. I think the biggest engine you could get in an '81 Fairmont/Zephyr and Granada/Cougar was the little 255, although I think you could still get the 302 in a Thunderbird or Cougar. While marketed as a compact, the Fairmont was still the same size as a Granada, which by that time was being marketed as a midsize.
When I got married in 1979, I was driving my first car - an AMC Gremlin. My future in-laws offered me either a Fairmont or Granada - provided I got rid of the Gremlin! I picked the Fairmont (302 engine). I had that car for 11 years and 100K. The body finally gave out, although the engine would have needed a rebuild as well.
The two cars were similar size, but the Fairmont was a lot lighter. Or at least it felt lighter.
Yeah, the Fairmont was definitely lighter. I think the 2-door sedans started as low as 2500 pounds, but that was probably with no options and a 4-cyl engine. I think most Fairmonts had the 200 straight six, but even with the 302, I don't think they were too heavy. In contrast, I think the Granadas started at around 3100 lb, with a standard 6-cyl. Worse, Ford tried to engineer a "big car feel" into the Granada, and I swear that made it feel heavier and bulkier than it was. And the Fairmont had rack and pinion steering, which probably helped it to handle better.
Back around 1999 or 2000, I had a co-worker who had a '79 Granada he wanted to sell, and pretty cheap. I can't remember now if it was the 2- or 4-door, but I remember it being green, and having a 250-6 cyl. At the time, I was driving an '89 Gran Fury ex police car...something that could be traced back to the Aspen/Volare, so it was the evolution of something that would have competed directly with that Granada, back in the day. Anyway, he let me drive the Granada, and I thought that thing was horrible! Vague, numb, wallowy, slow. Despite being a bigger car, the Gran Fury felt like it would run circles around it. Sure, being an ex police car helped, but it also just felt less bulky and ponderous, more under control.
I've always wondered what a V-8 Fairmont would've felt like. I'd imagine that the 302 in that light body was pretty quick. I think they only made them in 1978-79. Possibly 1980, but I'm not sure. My grandparents had an '81 Granada coupe, and an '85 LTD sedan, both related to the Fairmont. When I had my learners permit, I logged a lot of time driving in that LTD. Dunno if I'd want one today, but I liked the car, at the time. It had the 232 V-6, and something like 119 hp I think. Interesting how usually, hp would end with either a 5 or 0, but every once in awhile, you'd get a number like that. For instance, I remember the 2.8 carbureted V-6 in the Celebrity having 112. I guess sometimes they'd round off, if they could get away with it.
@andre1969 said:
I've always wondered what a V-8 Fairmont would've felt like. I'd imagine that the 302 in that light body was pretty quick.
It was quick, and you are correct that the steering was very good, although it wouldn't spin wheels; Ford seems to have designed it so that the power was available all the time, more as a backup when passing or otherwise needed than a dragstrip start up. I took it overseas to Germany in 1980. It kept up on the Autobahn so long as you remembered it wasn't a Euro spec and kept the speed under 80 or so. The smaller size was great on the narrower European secondary roads. It also had really excellent visibility. Mileage was good for the time, IIRC about 22 in town or on the road.
I chose it because it seemed more modern and just a better design. The Granada rode well but handled comparatively poorly.
I have mentioned that we had a '74 Maverick Luxury Decor when I was just starting to drive and how awful it was. When the Grenada came out the next year we looked at one and it was a much nicer package in terms of trim and refinement, but underneath it still had a variant of that old Falcon chassis. I drove one and while it was quieter and nicer than the Maverick, it still felt much the same.
When the Fairmont came out you may recall that the car mags went ga-ga over it. I therefore became very enthused, and drove a couple with the parents. Mom wasn't crazy about it but if optioned to her liking she would be OK with it. I remember doing a lot of dealing with a sales guy at the neighborhood Mercury dealer on a custom-order Zephyr with the 302, interior and exterior decor packages, etc. The 302 was an expensive option as I recall. I was able to get him to a very good price, but right then my mom became ill with what would eventually take her from us a couple of years later, so we dropped the deal. I wonder what it would have been like.
Said CandD:
"This week’s mystery photo featured the 1979 Ford Fairmont ES V8’s four-speed manual....The Fairmont ES V8 pictured here is from our September 1979 issue. In our brief road test, we noted that the Fairmont made an acceptable sports sedan, albeit one that wasn’t quite up to Germanic snuff. The 4.9-liter V-8 engine put out just 140 hp, but performance was lively given the Fairmont’s relatively svelte 2668-pound curb weight."
@texases said:
This would have been the Fairmont to get:
Said CandD:
"This week’s mystery photo featured the 1979 Ford Fairmont ES V8’s four-speed manual....The Fairmont ES V8 pictured here is from our September 1979 issue. In our brief road test, we noted that the Fairmont made an acceptable sports sedan, albeit one that wasn’t quite up to Germanic snuff. The 4.9-liter V-8 engine put out just 140 hp, but performance was lively given the Fairmont’s relatively svelte 2668-pound curb weight."
Brings back memories. But my wife couldn't drive a stick...
Drove down to Portland this morning. Weather was atrocious, didn't see much - did see a Ghostbusters-style Caddy ambulance parked within sight of the interstate, but it was a 60. Tons of older Volvos and Saabs in Portlandia, as to be expected. Also saw a 9-4x, which is a rare bird.
A lot of the folks who live in Oregon are...well...different. Not "bad" but different and people like that tend to gravitate toward cars that are "different".
What, no Subaru's or VW vans with peace signs? No grey haired hippies in ponytails -Just kidding. Oregon reminds me a bit of some New England states, and that's OK really.
Portland is the proof of stereotypes matching reality. To me, it seems to be just like it is portrayed on TV. Not a bad thing, just different. Like a gentler more hipster Seattle.
My relatives here have a 91 Suburban that they are attached to - will never sell it, not that anyone is lining up to buy it. Last of the old school, a few years ago it was treated to an engine rebuild. If they'd detail it properly, it would be pretty sharp. I am sure I'll see something like a Citroen or a Pacer tomorrow.
@texases said:
This would have been the Fairmont to get:
Said CandD:
"This week’s mystery photo featured the 1979 Ford Fairmont ES V8’s four-speed manual....The Fairmont ES V8 pictured here is from our September 1979 issue. In our brief road test, we noted that the Fairmont made an acceptable sports sedan, albeit one that wasn’t quite up to Germanic snuff. The 4.9-liter V-8 engine put out just 140 hp, but performance was lively given the Fairmont’s relatively svelte 2668-pound curb weight."
Unfortunately, the Ford 4-speed manual coupled with the V8 was a lousy manual, with oddly spaced gearing and a cumbersome shift action. The automatic was a better choice, with the V8, in my opinion. The four speed manual used with the 4-cylinder worked well, but that 2300 engine was gutless, even for a 4-cylinder of the time. Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans manuals performed better, and were more satisfying to drive than the domestics.
Circling back to the Fairmont/Zephyr, I think the best, all-around powertrain choice was the I-6 with automatic. We had a 1980 Zephyr in the family with that powertrain, and it was okay, for what it was. It had acceptable power for its day, was reasonably economical, and lasted for 154,000 miles, when the transmission went. By that time the engine was near the end of its life too, so we junked it. Not bad, though, for a domestic car of that period.
The first generation Granada/Monarch looked good, but the suspension and steering were notably worse than its closest GM and Mopar counterparts. By comparison, the Aspen/Volare drove and rode much better, as did the GM compacts (Nova, etc.) and intermediates, and also the Fairmont/Zephyr.
The 1975-1979 (?) Granada/Monarch were all about the Mercedes wannabe-on-the-cheap looks. The second generation used the Fox platform.
@roadburner said:
Two of my cars from the '70s and '80s...
My 1979 Arrow GT(2.6 I4, 5 speed, four wheel discs):
My 1988 Merkur(Ford of Germany) Scorpio A 5er competitor that cost considerably more to maintain.
The Sorpio had a very nice leather interior, but it must have been a nightmare, from a maintenance and repair standpoint. I always thought the Mercury Sable, though also troublesome, was a better car and a far better value than the Scorpio. most of the problems with the Taurus/Sable were associated with the optional 3.8 engine and transmission. The standard Vulcan 3.0 V6, coupled with the same automatic as the 3.8, was a more reliable combination.
I guess the Arrow GT was okay for its time, or was that high maintenance for its class too? Wasn't the Arrow sourced from Mitsubishi?
@hpmctorque - the thing I remember about going through the ordering proicess for the Fairmont/Zephyr was just how stark and cheap the base car was. The seat upholstery was taxicab-plain if you didn't upgrade, and almost everything was optional, right down to things like a glovebox lock and a rear seat ashtray. While the domestic manufacturers liked to sell options, the base level of these was really low to begin with. The base car must have been a pretty awful thing to live with.
Even in the PNW where odd cars are less unusual, I might see a Scorpio once a year. Another case of weird planning - in Europe, a Scorpio was just a big Ford, not a prestige car. Here, it was marketed as a BMW competitor of sorts. Reminds me of the Catera debacle a decade later.
@roadburner said:
Two of my cars from the '70s and '80s...
Yes, the Arrow was a Mitsubishi. One of the quickest cars of its day, which was not saying much... Pretty much problem free- I sold it when my future(and still) wife found me a 1973 Bavaria in August 1983. The rest is History...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
@fintail said:
Even in the PNW where odd cars are less unusual, I might see a Scorpio once a year.
Another case of weird planning - in Europe, a Scorpio was just a big Ford, not a prestige car. Here, it was marketed as a BMW competitor of sorts. Reminds me of the Catera debacle a decade later.
Well, yes and no, the base Granada was the "Big Ford" in Europe- the Scorpio was considered to be a viable competitor to the sub-3 liter B<Ws and M-Bs. And honestly, maintenance/repair issues aside, I found the Scorpio to be as rewarding a drive as the 528e- but my E28 535is was in a different league altogether...
Another problem with the Scorpio was that it was marketed through Lincoln-Mercury dealers- who were used to selling Town Cars to guys in white shoes with matching belts. They had no clue how to sell cars to people who still had all their own teeth and didn't want to add a gold trim package, a "cabriolet" roof, and a continental kit.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
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Unfortunately, my phone's battery was on its last legs by this point, and I think this was the last pic I took before it died. We didn't even notice the truck until fairly late in the day, as it was away from everything else. So, just as we were about to leave the show field to go get some dinner, we decided to drive up there, so yeah, that's my '67 in the background.
As for the truck, it was a Kenworth that looked about the same era as what was in the movie, and painted up in the same scheme...a very faithful replica! There was, naturally, a ton of Bandit Trans Ams. There were two LeManses, as well. The one in the pic above was pretty faithful, in even having the light blue interior that Buford's did. There was a second one that had a Grand LeMans interior in it.
Hopefully, these guys make another appearance at the GM show in 2015!
I always loved that truck and trailer with the mural, for a semi, it is almost stylish. That police car is pretty cool. You should make something like that. There's a cult of people who make movie themed cars. One could also make a Christine or a BTTF DeLorean, but prices spiral upwards quickly.
For odd cars, I saw an immaculate Catera today.
There was a '77 Grand LeMans sedan that used to show up every year at the GM show, that was a lighter, more period-correct brown with a buckskin interior. It was in pretty good shape, and I always thought it would make a good starting point for a replica of Buford's car. I remember it had a 301 under the hood.
In fact, I wondered for a moment if the one replica I saw might have been that Grand LeMans? I hadn't seen that car at the GM show for a few years.
I wonder how hard it would be to find a decent-shape '76-77 LeMans sedan nowadays, to do a conversion like that? The LeMans wasn't a very popular car by that time...only around 96K built for '76 and around 80K for '77. And that's ALL body styles and trim levels: coupe, sedan, wagon, base, Sport Coupe, Grand. In contrast, I think they built around 288K Grand Prixes in '76 and 228 in '77.
Maybe I could start a collection of Smokey and the Bandit police car replicas. In addition to the LeMans I'd need an '80 Bonneville sedan (plus a '75-76 hardtop sedan for a stunt double), and an '83 or so Bonneville G.
That would be a new project once the DeSoto is finished. You like Smokey and you like old Pontiacs, sounds like a good match. Probably wouldn't be too expensive either.
You'll also need a taxidermy shark for the III replica
Either that, or a giant nymphomaniac...
Andre, when I bought my 76 Cutlass new I also looked at the Buick. But the car I liked best initially (based on looks) was the Pontiac Lemans coupes. Now this may have just been an aberration of the Chicago area dealership market back then, but the reason I bought the Olds was that the Pontiac dealers wanted close to Buick prices and I didn't think it should even cost as much as my Cutlass Supreme based on content and interior. The Pontiac dealers weren't discounting much. The Lemans gave you the Pontiac V8, but it seemed kind of just an upgraded Malibu inside compared to the Olds and Buick.
I found comparably equipped cars were priced within $50 of each other. I compared the Buick and Olds along with Pontiac when shopping in 76 and 77 model years. I used Edmunds to compare the pricing. It was as if from line to line and model to model every little thing was added to the value in the price, such as better soundproofing in the floor. All 3 cars seemed to be strictly beancounter pricing. The dealers then pushed the market in their area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Remember back then when you'd buy a paper Edmunds guide to prepare for car buying? The neat part was that all different vehicles were in their pages, so you could dream a little too!
That's what I used. I can't remember the first car for which I used the pricing guide. Maybe '73 Ford? Had Edmund's started by then? I'm sure for the '77 Cutlass.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Just don't stop at the "Come On Inn".
In the first Smokey movie, there are actually two fintails in short background scenes, one a similar color to my car.
@andre1969 said:
I thought Edmunds started in the '60s. Seems like I should know this..
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From Wikipedia:
Edmunds was founded in 1966 as a publisher of printed booklets consolidating automotive specifications to help car shoppers make buying decisions.
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I think the '76 version of the base LeMans line and sport coupe is especially attractive. I like the simpler grille that has sort of a crosshair theme to it. In fact, I bought a set of those inserts back in 2005, to put on my car. Sure, it wouldn't be correct, but my '76 Grand LeMans is sporting a '77 Grand LeMans grille anyway, so it's not correct right now, anyway.
But, the inside of the base LeMans, and Sport Coupe, isn't all that ritzy. I like the design of the dash, but it seems like it has a lot of cheap plastics. The Grand LeMans used the Grand Prix dashboard, which had a much more expensive look and feel to it. The Grand LeMans has a really nice vinyl interior, with thick padding on the door panels, carpeting on the lower parts (just like the Regal and Cutlass Supreme Brougham), and nicely done seats. However, I don't think the Grand LeMans offered a cloth interior that was all that luxurious...it almost seems like vinyl was the top dog. Now, I've seen Grand Prixes with nice crushed velour seats, but I think the only Grand LeMans cloth I've ever seen was sort of a corduroy pattern, similar to an '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe I had.
I thought the Cutlass Supreme managed to pull off a pretty nice interior, even in more basic form. And the Brougham models were downright opulent. With Buick though, I never really cared for that vinyl they used. It had a heavy duty, durable look to it, but it sort of reminded me of what they would use to cover the seats in a police car or school bus with. And it seemed like it was very popular in the Buicks...I can't even recall what a '73-77 Century or Regal with a cloth interior would look like.
I wish Pontiac had offered the large, triangular rear windows in '76-77 on the LeMans. By that time, they only offered the louvered windows, or the opera windows. But, by that time, I think those triangular windows were on their way out, as everybody wanted the luxury look. IIRC, in 1976-77, the Century even started offering the more formal coupe roofline with the opera window and vee'd rear window, that was used on the Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Grand Prix, and Regal.
Oh, as for '76 LeMans sedans, how about this...
I can just hear Buford T. Justice now, saying "What in the hell is the world comin' to?"
Still, I'd rather see someone do this to the car, and get some enjoyment out of it, rather than it just get used up, junked, and crushed. I'd imagine the owner of this car put a lot of time, money, and effort into it!
@imidazol97, I was thinking 50s but this page says the paper guides date from the 1960s. The oldest guide I see currently on eBay is 1969. Someone is selling a new Edmunds.com hat there too that they must have gotten as a spiff.
Happens every time one of those dancers....oh, I'll stop now.
I have at least tolerance for the "donk" movement for that - some cars are sketchy, but many have a lot of work put into them, and as you say, someone is enjoying a car that would otherwise just be junked. It could be worse.
Just out of curiosity, when somebody does that kind of stuff to a car, like the '76 LeMans above, how hard would it be to put it back to stock? Would they have done much in the way of suspension mods, and if so, is it stuff that can easily be undone?
I'm sure there are AACA members that would crucify me over this, but if that car happened to fall into my hands, somehow, I'd actually be willing to tolerate those doors. Provided they would open reliably, that is.
I think they are all just suspension mods at best, or maybe the more affluent donkers might rebuild or swap an engine. I suspect a good number of them don't even get proper suspension mods - which no doubt can be dangerous with unsprung weight issues.
I don't see any harm done with the doors, not like it's a full AACA classic or something. It's fun for someone.
I remember taking a guide out from the library and reading it cover to cover. Then I would use the guide to price out each car (MSRP and invoice) as I would equip it and then compare them head to head against their competitors. Monte Carlo vs. Thunderbird, Camaro vs Mustang, et al. had notebooks full of information. Too bad I was 12 years old.....
I remember buying the book in the 80s. I know I used it for used cars. IIRC, there were separate books for new and used?
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I wish I could find puctures of my '77 LeMans Sport Coupe. I owned it from '81 to '86. Light blue metallic body with a white-painted top as a factory 2-tone (those must have been getting rare by then) with a white vinyl interior, bench seats, blue dash, steering wheel and carpets. It was a nice looking if basic car. PS, PB, AM radio, wheel covers, whitewalls, that's about all. I will need to poke around in my old color slides and see if there are any pics.
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@stickguy, yeah, the old book on eBay right now is the Used Car one.
The 1973 Grand Am was my favorite GM Intermediate, along with the Cutlass Salon. I also liked the 1977 Can Am, complete with a T/A shaker hood:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
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Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
There's a Can Am that shows up pretty regularly at the Carlisle GM show. I think I took a pic of it this time around; I'll get that stuff loaded up soon! I guess by 1977, the Can Am was about as close to a musclecar as you could get. 200 hp 400 V-8, and I think it had a rear end of around 3.23:1. In contrast, the stock 400 in a LeMans, Grand Prix, or Catalina/Bonneville that year had 180 hp and was most likely stuck with a tall 2.41:1 axle unless you got a towing package.
I just pulled up a Dodge Charger brochure from 1977, and it shows a 400-4bbl V-8 being offered. I think it had 190 hp, and was offered with a 2.45:1, 2.76:1, or 3.23:1 axle. It, and the sister Cordoba, were probably still pretty quick, maybe as quick as the Can Am, with the 400-4bbl/3.23 setup? I've seen some sources mention a 440 with 245 hp, but by this time, I think that was only offered in police cars.
Was Olds doing anything worth mentioning with the 442/Hurst by 1977? I know they had a 403 with 185 hp that was optional in the Cutlass, and also offered in the Delta 88/98, and in the Toronado had 200 hp. But I can't remember if the 442 was anything all that exciting by '77.
Mopar was also shoving a fairly hot 360-4bbl in the Aspen/Volare, coming up with the Aspen R/T and Volare Roadrunner. Probably an insult to the big block Roadrunners that came before, but it was probably pretty quick, by 1977 standards.
It's kind of a shame that GM didn't do anything with the downsized B-bodies, at least until the 1994-96 LT-1 cars. I thought the '77-79 Impala and Catalina coupes were pretty sharp looking...would've made a nice basis for a revived Impala SS and Catalina 2+2. Well, Buick did offer the LeSabre sport coupe with a turbo for a couple years. I think it started with 150 hp, but then jumped to 165. Probably not as fast as a Chevy 350, Pontiac 400, or Olds 403 in one of these cars, but I'd guess it was about on par with the likes of the 301 and 305.
Grand Am?
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I remember really liking the Can Am back in HS when it came out. Must have been the shaker hood.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
More MONEY I'm sure than time and effort.
I don't understand at all!
The Grand Am, with the right engine at least, was definitely more of a performer than the Can Am, but it was gone by '77. It only had a 3-year run...1973-75. They actually built one or two prototypes with a 310 net hp 455, and I think that engine may even have made it into some sales brochures, but at the last minute it was pulled. That engine did make it into the Trans Am, but I heard it ended up with 285 hp...still a lot by 1973 standards!
According to my old car book, the Grand Am was offered with a 175 hp 400-2bbl, a 185 hp 400-4bbl, a 230 hp 400-4bbl, and a 250 hp 455-4bbl. Interestingly, the Grand Am was supposed to come in as the new top dog, above the GTO, yet the GTO had the 230 hp 400 standard, with the 250 hp 455 optional. But, I guess the GTO was supposed to be more pure muscle (or what passed for it by '73) while the Grand Am was supposed to appeal to a wider audience, hence the wider choice of engines.
There was also a '73 GTO at the GM show, a black one that was really nice. I know it's way down on the list of desireability compared to earlier GTO's, but I thought it was still a handsome looking car...rugged and clean looking.
Spotted today - a ~68 Camaro with a Mecum front license plate, a 62 Cadillac coupe with similar wheels to that 68 Buick posted earlier, and a Geo Prizm 5 door.
You're right. For some reason I thought the Grand Am soldiered on a little longer than that. You are also right that the Grand Am was aimed at a wider audience. To wit, it was sold as being an 'international' design with 'sportier' handling and controls. It wasn't specifically sold as a performance car.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
The Pontiac Grand Am did make a return for 1978-80, on the downsized intermediate platform. In '78, it came with a 301-2bbl rated at 140 hp, or a 4-bbl rated at 155.
According to Wikipedia, for 1979 the base engine was downgraded to a Buick 231 V-6! Wow, talk about a slap in the face! You could still get a 301 though, now rated at 135 or 150 hp, depending on carb. And in an attempt to recapture the glory days, I guess, they offered a 4-on-the-floor with the 150 hp engine.
in 1980, they dropped all engines except the 301-4bbl (305-4bbl in California, as Pontiac V-8s got banned there starting in '77). Wikipedia says it had 170 hp, but I don't believe that for a moment...probably more like 145-155. However, I did hear that when they switched to computer controls for 1981, the 301-4bbl went to 170 hp, although it was "officially" rated at 150-155. Don't know if there's any truth to that, but GM did have a habit of finally getting something right in its final year or two, and then dropping it, and '81 was the 301's last year, so I wouldn't put it past them!
By '81 though, it looks like the 301-4bbl was only used in the Firebird/Trans Am, and LeMans wagons sold in California/high altitude areas. LeMans wagons in the rest of the country only offered a 301-2bbl as the top engine, and in sedans, coupes, and the Grand Prix, the biggest engine was just the tiny Pontiac 265-2bbl. In full-sized cars, the 301-2bbl was offered, but so was the Olds 307, and I think that was the more common engine.
I thought the 1981 LeMans was a pretty sharp looking car, with its sloping, Trans Am-inspired front end. It had a sporty look to it, although I guess it did clash a bit with the more formal roofline that the sedans adopted that year. Shame that the car lost any pretense of sportiness that year...no more Grand Am, nothing bigger than a 265, etc.
I liked the '81 LeMans design too but the engine choices were grim. You could get the 301 in a LeMans Safari wagon, but not any other LeMans.
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It's not much of a defense, but I guess all of the midsized offerings were doing the same thing by '81. I think the biggest engine you could get in an '81 Fairmont/Zephyr and Granada/Cougar was the little 255, although I think you could still get the 302 in a Thunderbird or Cougar. While marketed as a compact, the Fairmont was still the same size as a Granada, which by that time was being marketed as a midsize.
Over at Chrysler, their midsized cars still offered a 318-2bbl, but it only had 130 hp. And the likes of the LeBaron/Diplomat and Mirada/Cordoba were bigger and heavier than their Ford/GM competition. In California, they used a 318-4bbl that had around 165 hp...probably one of the rare instances that CA got a better engine than the other 49 states!
I guess GM may have even had a slight advantage with base engines, as the 229 and 231 V-6 had 110 hp at least, and the 231 was somewhat torquey. Meanwhile, the slant six only had 90 hp, and was not adapting well at all to emissions controls. And I think the Fords were using a 200 inline six with only 88 hp or something like that!
Ahh, the good old days!
When I got married in 1979, I was driving my first car - an AMC Gremlin. My future in-laws offered me either a Fairmont or Granada - provided I got rid of the Gremlin! I picked the Fairmont (302 engine). I had that car for 11 years and 100K. The body finally gave out, although the engine would have needed a rebuild as well.
The two cars were similar size, but the Fairmont was a lot lighter. Or at least it felt lighter.
Yeah, the Fairmont was definitely lighter. I think the 2-door sedans started as low as 2500 pounds, but that was probably with no options and a 4-cyl engine. I think most Fairmonts had the 200 straight six, but even with the 302, I don't think they were too heavy. In contrast, I think the Granadas started at around 3100 lb, with a standard 6-cyl. Worse, Ford tried to engineer a "big car feel" into the Granada, and I swear that made it feel heavier and bulkier than it was. And the Fairmont had rack and pinion steering, which probably helped it to handle better.
Back around 1999 or 2000, I had a co-worker who had a '79 Granada he wanted to sell, and pretty cheap. I can't remember now if it was the 2- or 4-door, but I remember it being green, and having a 250-6 cyl. At the time, I was driving an '89 Gran Fury ex police car...something that could be traced back to the Aspen/Volare, so it was the evolution of something that would have competed directly with that Granada, back in the day. Anyway, he let me drive the Granada, and I thought that thing was horrible! Vague, numb, wallowy, slow. Despite being a bigger car, the Gran Fury felt like it would run circles around it. Sure, being an ex police car helped, but it also just felt less bulky and ponderous, more under control.
I've always wondered what a V-8 Fairmont would've felt like. I'd imagine that the 302 in that light body was pretty quick. I think they only made them in 1978-79. Possibly 1980, but I'm not sure. My grandparents had an '81 Granada coupe, and an '85 LTD sedan, both related to the Fairmont. When I had my learners permit, I logged a lot of time driving in that LTD. Dunno if I'd want one today, but I liked the car, at the time. It had the 232 V-6, and something like 119 hp I think. Interesting how usually, hp would end with either a 5 or 0, but every once in awhile, you'd get a number like that. For instance, I remember the 2.8 carbureted V-6 in the Celebrity having 112. I guess sometimes they'd round off, if they could get away with it.
It was quick, and you are correct that the steering was very good, although it wouldn't spin wheels; Ford seems to have designed it so that the power was available all the time, more as a backup when passing or otherwise needed than a dragstrip start up. I took it overseas to Germany in 1980. It kept up on the Autobahn so long as you remembered it wasn't a Euro spec and kept the speed under 80 or so. The smaller size was great on the narrower European secondary roads. It also had really excellent visibility. Mileage was good for the time, IIRC about 22 in town or on the road.
I chose it because it seemed more modern and just a better design. The Granada rode well but handled comparatively poorly.
I have mentioned that we had a '74 Maverick Luxury Decor when I was just starting to drive and how awful it was. When the Grenada came out the next year we looked at one and it was a much nicer package in terms of trim and refinement, but underneath it still had a variant of that old Falcon chassis. I drove one and while it was quieter and nicer than the Maverick, it still felt much the same.
When the Fairmont came out you may recall that the car mags went ga-ga over it. I therefore became very enthused, and drove a couple with the parents. Mom wasn't crazy about it but if optioned to her liking she would be OK with it. I remember doing a lot of dealing with a sales guy at the neighborhood Mercury dealer on a custom-order Zephyr with the 302, interior and exterior decor packages, etc. The 302 was an expensive option as I recall. I was able to get him to a very good price, but right then my mom became ill with what would eventually take her from us a couple of years later, so we dropped the deal. I wonder what it would have been like.
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This would have been the Fairmont to get:
Said CandD:
"This week’s mystery photo featured the 1979 Ford Fairmont ES V8’s four-speed manual....The Fairmont ES V8 pictured here is from our September 1979 issue. In our brief road test, we noted that the Fairmont made an acceptable sports sedan, albeit one that wasn’t quite up to Germanic snuff. The 4.9-liter V-8 engine put out just 140 hp, but performance was lively given the Fairmont’s relatively svelte 2668-pound curb weight."
Brings back memories. But my wife couldn't drive a stick...
We did too. What an abysmal piece of garbage.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Drove down to Portland this morning. Weather was atrocious, didn't see much - did see a Ghostbusters-style Caddy ambulance parked within sight of the interstate, but it was a 60. Tons of older Volvos and Saabs in Portlandia, as to be expected. Also saw a 9-4x, which is a rare bird.
A lot of the folks who live in Oregon are...well...different. Not "bad" but different and people like that tend to gravitate toward cars that are "different".
What, no Subaru's or VW vans with peace signs? No grey haired hippies in ponytails -Just kidding. Oregon reminds me a bit of some New England states, and that's OK really.
Two of my cars from the '70s and '80s...
My 1979 Arrow GT(2.6 I4, 5 speed, four wheel discs):
My 1988 Merkur(Ford of Germany) Scorpio A 5er competitor that cost considerably more to maintain:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Portland is the proof of stereotypes matching reality. To me, it seems to be just like it is portrayed on TV. Not a bad thing, just different. Like a gentler more hipster Seattle.
My relatives here have a 91 Suburban that they are attached to - will never sell it, not that anyone is lining up to buy it. Last of the old school, a few years ago it was treated to an engine rebuild. If they'd detail it properly, it would be pretty sharp. I am sure I'll see something like a Citroen or a Pacer tomorrow.
Unfortunately, the Ford 4-speed manual coupled with the V8 was a lousy manual, with oddly spaced gearing and a cumbersome shift action. The automatic was a better choice, with the V8, in my opinion. The four speed manual used with the 4-cylinder worked well, but that 2300 engine was gutless, even for a 4-cylinder of the time. Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans manuals performed better, and were more satisfying to drive than the domestics.
Circling back to the Fairmont/Zephyr, I think the best, all-around powertrain choice was the I-6 with automatic. We had a 1980 Zephyr in the family with that powertrain, and it was okay, for what it was. It had acceptable power for its day, was reasonably economical, and lasted for 154,000 miles, when the transmission went. By that time the engine was near the end of its life too, so we junked it. Not bad, though, for a domestic car of that period.
The first generation Granada/Monarch looked good, but the suspension and steering were notably worse than its closest GM and Mopar counterparts. By comparison, the Aspen/Volare drove and rode much better, as did the GM compacts (Nova, etc.) and intermediates, and also the Fairmont/Zephyr.
The 1975-1979 (?) Granada/Monarch were all about the Mercedes wannabe-on-the-cheap looks. The second generation used the Fox platform.
The Sorpio had a very nice leather interior, but it must have been a nightmare, from a maintenance and repair standpoint. I always thought the Mercury Sable, though also troublesome, was a better car and a far better value than the Scorpio. most of the problems with the Taurus/Sable were associated with the optional 3.8 engine and transmission. The standard Vulcan 3.0 V6, coupled with the same automatic as the 3.8, was a more reliable combination.
I guess the Arrow GT was okay for its time, or was that high maintenance for its class too? Wasn't the Arrow sourced from Mitsubishi?
@hpmctorque - the thing I remember about going through the ordering proicess for the Fairmont/Zephyr was just how stark and cheap the base car was. The seat upholstery was taxicab-plain if you didn't upgrade, and almost everything was optional, right down to things like a glovebox lock and a rear seat ashtray. While the domestic manufacturers liked to sell options, the base level of these was really low to begin with. The base car must have been a pretty awful thing to live with.
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Even in the PNW where odd cars are less unusual, I might see a Scorpio once a year. Another case of weird planning - in Europe, a Scorpio was just a big Ford, not a prestige car. Here, it was marketed as a BMW competitor of sorts. Reminds me of the Catera debacle a decade later.
Yes, the Arrow was a Mitsubishi. One of the quickest cars of its day, which was not saying much... Pretty much problem free- I sold it when my future(and still) wife found me a 1973 Bavaria in August 1983. The rest is History...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Another case of weird planning - in Europe, a Scorpio was just a big Ford, not a prestige car. Here, it was marketed as a BMW competitor of sorts. Reminds me of the Catera debacle a decade later.
Well, yes and no, the base Granada was the "Big Ford" in Europe- the Scorpio was considered to be a viable competitor to the sub-3 liter B<Ws and M-Bs. And honestly, maintenance/repair issues aside, I found the Scorpio to be as rewarding a drive as the 528e- but my E28 535is was in a different league altogether...
Another problem with the Scorpio was that it was marketed through Lincoln-Mercury dealers- who were used to selling Town Cars to guys in white shoes with matching belts. They had no clue how to sell cars to people who still had all their own teeth and didn't want to add a gold trim package, a "cabriolet" roof, and a continental kit.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive