Towing tips for SUVs

sebring95 · October 2001

The escape might work if you don't have too many hills to deal with. The V6 escape doesn't have much torque which is what you want for towing. I pull 3000# regularly with a 4.0L Cherokee (which has substantially more torque) and you know it's back there on the hills. What I'm not positive on is the 4X4 system. If the Escape is actually a front wheel drive you may be ok without the 4X4 if you otherwise don't need it. I passed one the other day and it didn't look like it was a rear wheel drive by the size of the rear differentials. If you're talking about moving it short distances twice a year you'd probably be fine. If you're moving it all the time, get something that's designed to pull something.

I'm always surprised by how heavy a trailer feels even if it's not much of a load. I have a full-size diesel I've pulled over 15,000# with, but you can feel a 5,000# trailer back there as well. Anytime you're pulling something that weighs as much as your vehicle, things start getting hairly. A short wheelbase, light-duty frame/brakes, and low torque makes things even worse. Long trips at/over maximum capability is asking for trouble. Nothing like causing an accident and getting sued by 10 people. Your insurance has a maximum ya know?

primm1 · October 2001

Thanks for your replies to my note.
To clarify, I'm looking for something to replace my 1991 Explorer and for short-distance boat towing in South Florida. Will do rare trips to the Keys or the lakes in Central Florida, otherwise will stay close to Lantana.
I'm worried/paranoid about some of our local ramps, which can get very slippery at low tide. I won't take my stick-shift, no 4WD Explorer to them. I'm thinking (and boat-towing friends agree) that the front-wheel drive, automatic transmission Escape should do the trick. Locals tell me I don't even need the 4WD.
I'm not locked into anything yet though, will keep watching for your tips. THANkS

margot11 · October 2001

I've zeroed in on a 1998 Expedition (Eddie Bauer); with the 5.4 v-8. Leased vehicle with low mileage--good price according to KBB. All the options and should do the trick--Husband seems to approve! It's got a tow package also. Should pull the boat, 4 of us, and the dog quite handily. Writing the check tomorrow am. Last minute advice welcome! Good luck to us all.

frankno1 · October 2001

Margot11,
Good job 1,000,000 expo's in 4 years must be a reason. Reliability, good looks, and will pull your boat and 4 kids with no problem. You can even take your hubby along is so inclined.
Have a great time with your purchase.
Frankk

odie6l · October 2001

I have a '01 Ford Escape and notice while pulling a small boat or when even only loaded down in the cargo area the Escape does have a tendancy to drift backwards unless you get on the gas quick. I haven't had to worry about the slippery ramps as much since I only go to the local lake/resivour, and their ramp is one that 5 vehicles can back in at once they keep it really clean/clear.

Odie.

bcohen · November 2001

There's always a lot of discussion about towing the big stuff, but not much mention about the smaller trailers. I have a small, 1200 pound pop-up camper. I've seen everything from Neons to Excursions towing campers this size! I currently tow it with my '88 S-10 4x4 with the 4.3L V6. This tows it without much problem (except on long, extended hills, which is funny since its rated for 5000

). At some point in the future, however, I'm going to need to get something else. I really like to drive stick shift cars. Lately I've been looking at the Suburu Impreza Outback Sport with AWD and a 5sp. From what I've seen, the engine (2.5L) has a tow rating of 2000 pounds. Sounds great, but has anyone had any real-world experience with that engine in any of the Suburu line, and in particular with a stick shift. Thanks.

P.S. If anybody has experience towing with other cars, I would be interested in that too.

rsholland · November 2001

You should visit the Subaru Crew over in the Owner's Club area. We've had much discussion over the past year about towing with Subies.

Yes, the '02 Impreza does have a 2000 pound tow limitif your trailer has brakes. If it doesn't, the tow limit is 1000 pounds.

I've got a 670 pound 5x8 utility trailer (no brakes) that I tow with my Explorer. Juice (one of the Subie Crew Leaders) has towed my trailer with his 5-speed Forester (same tow specs as the Impreza) with a 3 yards of mulch in it. I'm sure he was well over 1000 pounds, and he did fine with it. I'm not sure I would recommend doing that on a regular basis, but in a pinch, if you're careful, it will make do.

BTW, Subies are great cars. We've got two: an '01 Forester S Premium, and a '96 Impreza Outback.

Also, you might check out the all-new '02 Honda CRV. The engine is now a 2.4L unit, and is within 5 HP of the Subarus. It can tow 1500 pounds. I don't think(?) there are any non-trailer brake restrictions. The new CRV will be arriving in dealerships within a few days.

Bob

stever · November 2001

Does the average guy pulling a trailer really have a clue about what he's doing? If you pull a trailer, do you know that the safety chains are supposed to be crossed (and why?). You do use safety chains, don't you? Am I being overly paranoid when I avoid towers on the road like a plague?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

paisan · November 2001

90% of people towing don't have a clue. Very important to check the bearings and have them repacked bi-yearly and replaced every 4 years IMHO. Also check your trailers for rust. I thought I had a great trailer, wound up bending the axle of a 3000lb boat trailer nearly lost my wheel. Had to re-build the whole trailer.

-mike

sdc2 · November 2001

Go read post #12...you'll be able to easily discern my opinion regarding your question.

stever · November 2001

Ok, that looks like three votes for the need for towing instruction.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

paisan · November 2001

I think that is the key once you know all the right procedures. Most trailers aren't used very often and by sitting, they develop a great deal of problems: Dry Rotted tires, cracked tires, bearings, frame, axle rust. Jammed tounges, un-working lights. I know on my own personal basis it's always the last thing I think of when dealing with my boat, of course that was right up til I snapped the axle last summer. Now it's one of my 1st priorities. I actually had to re-construct my trailer this summer. Bought a whole new 3500lb axle, springs, tires etc from a company in Dallas and had a local speed shop do all the welding and connecting. Now I at least know the trailer is in good shape for my 200+ mile trips.

-mike

gpm5 · November 2001

Safety chain crossed--do others on this board do that? In terms of the S-hooks of the safety chain, can someone comment on whether they hook it with the open end of the hook away form the hitch or toward the hitch. I've seen where its suggested to put the open end away from the hitch.

Paisan, I know you routinely tow with the trooper to the limit of 5000 lbs. There's a guy around here called heatwave who says GMs are great tow vehicles and says to only use 80% of the vehicle's tow rating (i.e. that would be 4000 lbs for the trooper). Anyone else have comments?

paisan · November 2001

Heatwave is right. You should only tow about 80% of the ratings if you tow that weight all the time. I only do 5000lbs a few times a year, most of my towing is a 3500lb boat trailer.

As for the S-hooks, actually you run the chain through the hole of the safety hole, and use the S hook to reconnect it back onto the chain loops.

-mike

li_sailor · November 2001

Heatwave (heatwave3, actually)...one of my pals! We're practically "paisan"! (apologies to the GodFather).

I think there's a lot of confusion about trailering judging from posts here ( I mean in TH generally...not so in this topic).

One thing I've heard conlicting reports on is whether the weight in the towing vehicle should be counted towards the tow rating number. For example, if you are rated at 5000# and you pull a 4500# boat/trailer and you have 800# of bodies and stuff in the towing vehicle...are you over your limit? I've read that you are, but others say you're not.

As far as the 80% thing...AFAIK, if your vehicle is rated at 5000# that means you can safely tow 5000# on level ground. I've always understood that if you are pulling a boat up a ramp, you should have some margin...I figure 80% for that. I'm not aware that you need a margin for level ground.

heatwave3 · November 2001

I've towed for many years with many vehicles and trailers. I've always crossed the safety chains, although I am not sure why other than the some dealer many years ago making the recommendation.

I don't however run the chains through the hitch openings and loop them back on themselves. I wouldn't have enough slack.

paisan is right on target with his recommendations for bearings on boat trailers. They should be repacked at least every other season and should be replace every other repacking. Its a relatively inexpensive insurance policy to avoid the much dreaded bearing burn-up.

Also there is very good reason for only using about 80% of a vehicle's tow capacity. Most people overload their trailers some time during its ownership. If you bought a vehicle that is only using 80% of its tow capacity you'll be in a much safer position. Additionally, when it comes to breaking, handling and acceleration the by not using 100% of the tow capacity routinely you'll be in a much safer position in emergency handling not to mention the wear and tear on the vehicle.

li_sailor · November 2001

Oh yeah..the question. I do cross them (someone, somehwere told me I should do that so I do) but I have no idea why.

heatwave3 · November 2001

There are several key manufacturer's specs that should ve taken into account when determining the best tow vehicle.

The first is the Max tow capacity which identifies the maximum weight that a vehicle can have attached to the properly rated hitch platform, receiver, tow bar and ball. The rating of each of these must exceed the total weight of the entire trailer package.

Next is payload. This is important when towing because 10% of the trailer's weight should be appropriately "resting" on the tow ball. This 10% is important to ensure the vehicle is not too lightly loaded resulting in a trailer that rebounds upwards after potholes and other bumps in the road. Its also important not too exceed to avoid the vehicle's rear suspension being overly loaded. The 10% weight must also be deducted from the payload capacity of the vehicle the balance of which is now the remaining payload for passengers and cargo inside the vehicle

For example: If a vehicle has a 5000lb tow capacity and a 1200lb payload, you should set the trailer up with about 500lbs resting on the trailer hitch. This leaves the tow vehicle with 700lbs for passengers and cargo (not very much in my opinion in this example.)

This is one of the reasons the Sequoia with its light payload (1305lbs) and high tow capacity (6200lbs) could leave you with very little room for weight in the vehicle itself if it were pulling a 6200lb trailer.

The final important measure is the CGVWR (Combined Gross vehicle weight rating) which is the "master" weight that should never be exceeded. This is the total weight of the entire package, trailer, passengers, cargo and the weight of the vehicle loaded with gas.

Any manufacturer serious abouts the towing capabilities of its vehicles should provide its CGVWR on its vehicles.

stever · November 2001

You cross the chains, so I understand, so that if the hitch fails, the chains will support the front of the trailer, which keeps it from digging into the road. Falling onto the road could stop the trailer/vehicle or roll the trailer and/or tow vehicle. Crossed chains are supposedly more effecive at keeping the trailer more or less attached to the tow vehicle than uncrossed chains.

Wonder why our tow video and article neglects to mention safety chains at all?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

swschrad · November 2001

also, you avoid the S-hook questions completely if you replace them with those threaded-closed D-rings of proper rating... that way, you have solid steel all around and no matter how the load bounces on the crossed chains, it won't bounce the S-hooks off.

now, anybody here have a tested working detach switch with electric brakes, so if the rig comes off, say your whole hitch carrier breaks free, the cable to the detach switch at a different spot puts the electric brakes on full from the trailer's battery? I saw a racecar transporter slew across the interstate, across the median, and straight into the other lanes of traffic some 12 years ago because their ball broke off, the chains snapped, and there was no safety switch to hit the trailer brakes.

heatwave3 · November 2001

My boat trailer has a heavy duty wire with an s-hook that is attached to the same location as the safety chains. The wire is attached to the master cylinder on the surge brakes of the trailer.

If the trailer breaks free from the hitch this cable activates and locks the master cylinder which in turn locks the brakes on the trailer to avoid it from rolling freely down the road.

rsholland · November 2001

I cross my chains. In addition, I "weave" the two chains together (like rope), to take up some slack so that the chains won't drag on the ground.

I also use a "safety pin" on the hitch clasp, so that it won't accidently pop off the ball. I've also used a padlock several times, instead of the pin.

I had my 5'x8' utility trailer gone over in August, packed the bearings, etc,. before driving roughly 900 miles (had to move our daughter into college).

Bob

rsholland · November 2001

related is the subject of trailer brakes. I started this link a little while ago over in the "News and Views" area. There's a great deal of discrepancy between what manufacturers recommend in terms of trailer brakes. Some, such as mentioned in the link below, are overly conservative, whereas other manufacturers make no mention of trailer brakes whatsoever.

Bob

rsholland "Trailer Brakes" Nov 1, 2001 2:17pm

PS.
You need to scroll back to post #1.

paisan · November 2001

My boat trailer @ 3500lbs max doesn't have brakes. My trooper does have 4 wheel disc and it seems to stop it w/o a problem from highway speeds. I'm not a big fan of electric brakes, I like the ones that use the momentum of the trailer better.

-mike

rsholland · November 2001

li_sailor · November 2001

Yeah...my trailer has hydraulic 'surge' brakes that use the the momentum of the trailer to apply the brakes. My boat/trailer is about 3600 lbs.

My trooper does have 4 wheel disc and it seems to stop it w/o a problem from highway speeds.

But...it's not just a question of stopping it...it's a question of fishtailing. If the trailer has no brakes, this is always possible.

I thought that anything over 2000 lbs (trailer weight/not sure about that number) was required to have trailer brakes.

stever · November 2001

Many states require brakes if a trailer has a (gvwr) gross vehicle weight rating of 3000# or more. Other states require brakes on trailers with gvwr's as low as 1000#. Source

It's 1500 pounds here in Idaho, for example, unless you are hauling hay or cattle within 50 miles of your farm.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

li_sailor · November 2001

is 3000#

Here's a link

stever · November 2001

Hey, I'm not gonna tell Paisan he may be in violation of some law somewhere - you tell him!

:-)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

rward99 · November 2001

>Many states require brakes if a trailer has a (gvwr) gross vehicle weight rating of 3000# or more

If you are trailering through a state, you have to comply with their laws, even if your home state doesn't require something. My state doesn't require that trailers be licensed, but neighboring ones do. If I travel through those states I have to have a license on my trailer. I had that explained to me once by an Ohio state trooper.

li_sailor · November 2001

Hey, I'm not gonna tell Paisan he may be in violation of some law somewhere - you tell him!

Actually...you already did when you said the state laws vary from 1000# to 3000# :-)

Edmunds towing guide recommends anything over 2000# use brakes and I would think some 'margin' is probably a good idea.

Reminds me that I should try to check to make sure they really are working. I thought I'd pull it on snow, hit the brakes and see if the wheels lock up (no abs on my trailer ;-) ). 'Course, I'd have to have someone else looking at the wheels.

tidester · November 2001

Actually...you already did when you said the state laws vary from 1000# to 3000# :-)

Some people just deserve the extra attention! ;-)

tidester
Host
SUVs

stever · November 2001

LOL, that was a direct quote from Champion - I just forgot the little "" marks. Paisan isn't gonna hear it from me :-)

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

paisan · November 2001

But I'm not sure how much it actually weighs to tell you the truth. I know it's 3500 cause that is the axle/suspension setup I put in when I rebuilt it this year. I should probably have it weighed at some point, even it's cost prohibitive at this point to put brakes on the trailer. I don't buy that you need to comply with that state's laws. How could you register a trailer, if you can't register it in your own state, and need an address to register it? The example given above doesn't make sens, how would you propose registering your trailer if your state doesn't register trailers? How could the other state require you to register it if you don't have anywhere to register it? ????

-mike

paisan · November 2001

It wouldn't be the first law I've broken.

-mike

rsholland · November 2001

a 5'x8' utility trailer weighs 670 pounds empty. I had it weighed at the county landfill. It has a GVW of either 2500 or 2900 pounds, and has no brakes. The dealer I bought it from said if it had brakes (they make them that way too) it would have a 3500 GVW, and that's just for adding brakes.

The Maryland law says any trailer 3000 pounds or over must have brakes. From what I've read, 3000 pounds seems to be the most common figure for brake usage among states.

Bob

rsholland · November 2001

Which do you prefer, surge-type or electric trailer brakes, and why?

My sense, is if you have a trailer like mine, in which the weight can vary by almost 2000 pounds, electric brakes would be better. The reason being, I believe with electric brakes you can adjust the amount of braking needed, depending on how much the trailer weighs at any given time. Less braking is needed with no load, whereas more braking power is needed with heavy loads.

Trailers that pretty much weight the same all the time, such as boat trailers, camper trailers, motorcycle trailers, etc., could probably get away with surge-type brakes.

Bob

li_sailor · November 2001

I don't know how electric brakes work, in terms of adjustment, so I can't compare the two.

As far as surge brakes...since the force of the trailer pushing forward (when the vehicle is braking) is what applies the brakes...wouldn't the force of the brakes be proportional to the weight of the trailer?

rsholland · November 2001

Also, with surge brakes, is there any braking available when you're backing up?

Bob

paisan · November 2001

I vote for surge, for simplicity. I believe it's proportional to the weight of the trailer pushing on the ball, so it would apply less braking if the trailer is light. In reverse there is no brakes IIRC, but why would you need em at a crawl in reverse?

-mike

heatwave3 · November 2001

FYI, you couldn't use electric brakes on a boat trailer even if you preferred them. Electric brakes can't be submerged, that's why all boat trailers have surge brakes, if they have brakes at all.

There is no braking on a surge brake trailer set-up when backing up, however its usually done at low speeds and therefore there is little load on the tow vehicle's brakes. Most modern surge brakes do automatically adjust themselves when backing up to continuously adjust for the wearing of the brakes pads.

If you're dropping your boat in salt water you will certainly increase the performance and longevity of your brakes by installing a simple flush kit that is installed on the back side of both brake plates and is attached with a fitting on one side of the trailer. This fitting can be attached to a garden hose to rinse the drums and pads of salt water before heading off on a long tow.

paisan · November 2001

No salt water for me. This year is actually the first year I took my boat back down to the city for the winter. Usually it stays protected under the pine trees upstate, but I need to put in a new floor and some other work on it this spring. I may take it out to some lakes in NJ or PA int he spring though. I think it was the salt water that had killed my other axle on the trailer. The wheel almost fell off when I first bought it and drove away from the guys house, wound up having to get new bearings about 30 min. after buying the boat.

-mike

rsholland · November 2001

This was more an "intellectual" question as opposed to a "practical" question. I realize that when you're backing a trailer, you're doing it at a crawl speed at most.

Interesting, the consensus so far is for surge brakes. IIFC, my trailer dealer preferred electric brakes, but I don't remember why...

Bob

paisan · November 2001

Bob, probably due to the fact that there is more installation involved in the electric brakes. Don't forget dealers are in it for themselves

-mike

tkevinblanc · November 2001

There are at least two advantage to electric brakes, I think: first, you can actuate the trailer brake from inside the tow vehicle without hitting the brakes (a little lever does it); and they are smoother than surge brakes (they don't depend on the trailer pushing your truck to actuate). This comes from guys I know that tow: I have no direct experience, but I've been looking into it.

I thought the "electric" part on electric brakes was basically an electrically powered master cyl up near the hitch - I didn't think it was anywhere near the axle, and, therefore, shouldn't preclude you from using electric brakes on a boat trailer. Am I wrong?

larry18 · November 2001

Looking for a trailer to haul a jeep to Colorado next summer. It will also be used to haul a 40hp diesel tractor and box blade. Should I go the extra $100 to get it with brakes on both axles?

paisan · November 2001

for $100 I'd definitely get the brakes on both axles. Heck for $200 or $300 I'd get em. I'm actually looking for a flatbed myself, hopefully I can find one in the sub $1000 range in my area.

-mike

swschrad · November 2001

electric brakes use a magnetic force clutch to push the shoes apart, thus it is a continuous system. they are applied through a variable-voltage hot wire that is triggered by a brake controller box on the tow vehicle. the standard used to be kelsey-hayes hydraulic controllers varying the brake signal, but now a lot of controllers either read the brake wire, replace the stock brake switch with a two-mode one, or put a controller on top of the brake pedal that reads out in force. in first use, you adjust the brakes for smoothness with the load on using an adjustment pot on the controller. nice system.

heatwave3 · November 2001

Per the description provided by swschrad, you would never want to dunk a brake system with electric activated brake shoes into freshwater let alone a saltwater environment with a boat trailer.

akroeger · November 2001

My neighbor recently bought a Sea Ray with electric brakes on the boat trailer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that electric brakes are electrically ACTIVATED as described by swschrad in #99 (thanks, swschrad!), but hydraulically ACTUATED. They still use brake fluid from a master cylinder(which receives the electrical signal) to apply hydraulic pressure to the drum or disc brakes. The brake parts near the wheels which would be submerged when launching or retrieving your boat would not differ substantially from those found on a surge brake-equipped trailer.

Towing tips for SUVs

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles