Tires, tires, tires

toyotadriven · August 2004

Thanks for the response. I have read ALL of your posts on this board and on all threads where Nokian WR was mentioned. I did a GOOGLE search and read all I could find. The one fact that was not posted anywhere, even in the Nokian brochure that they sent me, was are the sipes (known as HAKKA SIPES) FULL DEPTH. On my OEM Integrity's all the fine detail sipes, which improve wet traction wore off at 20k. Now the ABS kicks on, under wet braking. How does your sisters WR tires look after 45k? Do you still see the sipes in the tread blocks? On the size for my car, the tread depth is 14/32. Are the sipes 12-14/32" deep? Other than this one fine detail, I am sold, that this tire is the best ALL-SEASON tire out there.
thanks again

sequoiasoon · August 2004

You can still see siping on her tires. I just went outside and checked mine (I have a real tire depth gauge not the penny method). Trying a couple spots I came up with 5/32 depth in the sipes. So I guess you can call it full depth. Since their driving safety indicator (DSI=actual tread depth numbers molded into center of tread) ends at 2 which is legal limit the sipes probably stop at 3/32. 14/32 is WHOLE LOTTA tread by the way, SWEET!!!! My stock Bridgestone Duelers on the Sequoia only had 11/32 to start and with 10k on them were down to 7/32. You can also contact Nokian at their US headquarters in Tennessee, the number is on their website. I had contacted them with questions a couple times and they were very helpful. My original hak SUV's for my Explorer were "not available" at local dealers, they all said they did not make them in that size yet. 1 week later after calling Nokian I had 4 at my door. They were just being shipped to the US and the dealers did not know it yet, purchased direct through HQ.

toyotadriven · August 2004

Thanks, this the kind of info I was looking for. I doubled checked the nokian website and they are 14/32" deep in (225-70-16). Your right thats' a lot of tire, and they are cheeper than Michelin CT. Nokian WR = $125 per tire delivered to my door, from Nokian HQ in TN. Not a bad price for what you get. Thanks for taking the time to ckeck for me.

tntitan · August 2004

Has anyone tried out these tires? I ran over a nail yesterday and there was a GoodYear dealer closeby so that was where I went. I currently have Dunlop SP Sport A2000 215/50/17 on my 2003 Accord LX coupe. They have 15,000 miles on them and I have had zero complaints. They have terrific wet and dry weather traction, exhibit great handling, and the price was unbeatable. They would probably go to around 30,000 before getting to 4/32 but I plan to replace them at about 25,000.

Out of curiosity I asked the GoodYear guy if they had anything I might be interested in and he thought the Assurance triple tred (or something like that) would be perfect for my application and he said they were priced right as a promotional thing the first year. Of course the bad news was they haven't made my size yet but he estimated it would be about a $110 tire in my size with a 50,000 mile treadlife.

All I am really interested in is good wet and dry traction and handling. Road noise is not a big factor because my sound system will be drowning it out. I may stick with the Dunlops if I can still get them .... they are pretty good tires for the money. Every time I buy an expensive tire I never seem to get what I expect anyway so I don't really have a problem with getting cheaper tires and changing every 25-30K.

wain · September 2004

some kumho tires do not have full depth side sipes - i do not know what the reason is.
does anyone?

capriracer · September 2004

I can't tell you why a specific Kumho tire doesn't use full depth sipes, but I can give you a couple of possibilities.

As a tire wears down, it's a good idea for the tire to change appearance and maybe even generate some noise to alert the driver to the need to change out the worn tires.

Sometimes it is advantageous to give a tire a bit of visual appeal, but sipes break up the structure of the tread elements and cause the tread to wear faster.

As a tire gets older, it tends to get less dry grip. Sipes make this worse, but sipes don't add much except for snow traction.

Hope this helps.

bluedevils · September 2004

This topic was raised recently in the Kia Sedona forum. Sedona is fitted OEM with H speed rated tires, either Hankook (model RA07) or Kumho. It seems U.S. Sedonas top out at 122mph, so says Car & Driver.

How important is it to use H rated tires on a vehicle such as the Sedona? It is a very heavy (4800 lbs.) minivan.

My assumption was Kia fits Sedonas with H rated tires because they are the lowest speed rating (130mph) tire beyond Sedona's top speed. Kia probably opted for this instead of installing a speed governor on Sedona.

What are the reasons why to stick with an H rated tire on a minivan such as Sedona? What are the risks of using instead a well-rated S or T speed rating tire?

Specifically, we replaced our Hankook RA07 tires recently with Bridgestone Turanza LS-T, which I preferred to the Michelin HydroEdge even if price had been the same (the Turanzas were slightly cheaper).

Sedona's OEM tire size is P215/70R15.

yurakm · September 2004

Tires blow out or fall apart when hot, Ford Explorer style. They turn hot for different reasons, or more often a combination of reasons: high speed, overloaded (or heavy) car, low tire pressure, hot air / pavement, etc.

Tires are rated for temperature resistance. The best rate used to be A, but now some tires are rated AA; the worst rate is C. Most cars have B-rated tires, with C-rated factory installed on many tracks. The infamous Firestone tires factory installed on Ford Explorer were rated C.

In theory, the speed rating and temperature rating are different. In practice, tires H-rated for speed are A-rated for temperature, while S- and T-rated tires are B-rated. Z rate came with AA. At least it was so the last time I checked at Tirerack.

It means that even if you never drive as fast as 120 mph (or even at 90 mph for this matter), with H-rated tires you will have much better safety margins against underinflated tire, factory defects, long trips with family (load), etc. Especially important with your heavy minivan.

corvette · September 2004

Egads, 4800 lbs? And that's before you strap Aunt Edna to the roof for the family roadtrip! Be sure the load rating on the replacement tires is at least as high as the originals.

Don't Michelin tires have the lowest failure rate?

capriracer · September 2004

Some background on speed ratings:

Speed ratings are based on an indoor wheel test that relates very well to the real world. But like many types of ratings, there are things that folks need to be aware of.

A tire's actual speed capability can be adversely affected by many things. Inflation pressure is one of them. Even if the tire has enough inflation to carry the load being applied, it's speed capability goes down with reduced inflation - I've seen as much as 2 steps.

Speed ratings are based on smooth road surfaces. Add some bumps and the speed capability goes down.

As tires age, their ability to perform decreases. This applies to speed as well. The latest research I have seen indicates that this performance degradation is very much age related and not related to the amount of usage the tire has seen. The research said the degradation can be as high as 2 steps in speed capability.

This also means that an unused tire in the spare rack has degraded performance at about the same level as the tire that is has been used for 40,000 miles and is practically worn out. While I have some problems with this research, my experience seems to agree with this. So my current recommendation is that tires should be replaced when they are 10 years old regardless of the state of wear and where they have been used, and that folks that live in AZ, CA, NV, TX, NM, and FL, the age limit is reduced to 6 years. Other places are in between 6 and 10 years depending on how far north they live. For example TN would be 8 years.

It is always good engineering practice to overdesign and underutilize. This means that while the vehicle may not be going 130 mph, it is safer with H rated tires than with S rated tires.

Hope this helps.

wain · September 2004

olks that live in AZ, CA, NV, TX, NM, and FL, the age limit is reduced to 6 years.
------
whats the thought here heat? humidity? UV rays?

maxx4me · September 2004

"whats the thought here heat? humidity? UV rays?"

- Roadkill!!

capriracer: what's your opinion then on the new Bridgestone/Firestone Uni-T technology which claims that their tires keep a consitant grip all throughout the life of the tire? I have been very impressed by the Firestone Dayton H rated tires, and have now owned 3 sets. Your opinion?

corvette · September 2004

I'm not capriracer, but my $0.02 is that they seem to imply that even the wet traction stays constant throughout the life of the tire. I could see the dry traction remaining constant, perhaps, but I have a hard time buying into this "theory" on the wet performance, as there is less tread depth, the channels for water displacement get smaller. But, if it works in practice, I'm not that worried about the theory!

Can anyone confirm or deny that Michelins have the lowest failure rate?

capriracer · September 2004

It seems to be heat related, which is why I have a bit of a problem with the strictly time related result coming from the research.

Obviously NORTHERN CA would be different than southern CA - same for NV.

This is based on tire returns and apparent failure rates. I say "apparent" because it is difficult to get reliable sales figures to compare against returns.

You may notice that FL seems to be the odd man out as all the other states are in the southwest. If you take a look at the average high temperature vs month for various cities, you'll notice that that FL behaves differently - the curve is flatter, and while the peak is not as high, the lowest values are substantially higher. I interpret this to mean that it stays warm year round, so the heat history comes out similar.

Hope this helps.

capriracer · September 2004

I've reviewed the writeup on Bridgetone's web site and the info there doesn't make it sound much different than what every tire manufacturer is doing. Frankly, it sounds more like they are selling the "sizzle of the steak" and not the steak itself.

Failure rate? Since every tire manufacturer holds warranty information close to their chest, the only folks who are going to able to give you an answer are going to be NHTSA and some large volume dealers. (NHTSA = National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration)

NHTSA has acknowledged the propretary nature of the info they have recieved (which is why the tire manufacturers are willing to share the info with them), but there is some pressure from lawyer and insurance groups for NHTSA to release the info.

And a dealer usually doesn't have an adequate amount of statistics to make sense of the data they do have, so they can only go by "feel".

Hope this helps.

corvette · September 2004

Thanks. Many *small* tire dealers I have spoken to tell me that they have never seen a failed or defective Michelin tire, and freely admit that Michelin makes the best tires, compared to everything else they sell.

maxx4me · September 2004

well, dry rot on the sides of many Michelins I've seen and owned, coupled with the fact that BF Goodrich (far and away the worst tire I have ever owned) are made by Michelin will steer me clear of that company forever.

imidazol97 · September 2004

I've had Michelins since 1967 and have found them to be more round and to last longer than other tires. The BF Goodrich tires lasted a long time on my brother-in-law's car. They had mileage in the 70-80K like Michelins do.

Everybody has their own story.

bluedevils · September 2004

The only tire store I've seen/heard promoting the use of nitrogen in tires is Costco. Their sign out front does not explain what the supposed benefits are. I find this strange that Costco, one of the least expensive places to buy tires in our area (SE Michigan), is the only one promoting the nitrogen thing.

kyfdx · September 2004

Tire Discounters.. which is a pretty big chain in Southwest OH, (over 30 locations, I think), built an entire marketing campaign around it.

http://www.tirediscounters.com/

taykinitezy · September 2004

I may be crazy but I would like a softer ride in my Civic Si. I did not buy the Si for it's performance value, and find the "sport suspension" and V rated tires a little too stiff for my liking. I am looking for opinions as to whether changing tires will really make a difference considering the suspension is geared toward performance and stiffness. I had a gentleman at the local Goodyear store tell me probably not, others have said yes. Keep in mind that I am not necessarily looking for performance, however I wouldn't want to put on a set of tires that would be so out of sync with the suspension that driving with "softer" tires would make things worse...any and all opinions are appreciated.

pathstar1 · September 2004

firmness or softness is mostly controlled by the spring and shock rates. "Harshness" can be controlled by the size of the sidewall. In other words, a 225/50-15 tire will be less harsh than a 225/35-15 tire. The larger the sidewall, the lower the road noise transferred to the car and the lower the harshness of ride. Larger sidewalls make the handling less precise - that is, the sidewall flexes more so the car doesn't go exactly where aimed - more over or understeer.

My above example is not exactly what would be done, of course. You'd go from a 225/50-15 to a 225/35-16 or something to keep overall diameter the same. To do that wheels would be purchased. You would also have to ensure the speed rating and load rating didn't go down by dangerous amounts.

kyfdx · September 2004

You can't really change sizes, because any 15" tire that keeps the same overall diameter, will still have the exact same sidewall height. For example, a 225/50-15 is exactly the same diameter as a 205/55-15. Even though the aspect ratio is less, they have the same sidewall height.

The only way to get "taller" sidewalls is to switch to 14" wheels. In the same example, you could go from a 225/50-15 to a 195/65-14 and pick up an extra .5 inch of sidewall height.

That is probably the only way to make a "substantial" difference, and on a Civic it would be feasible.. Switching to more of a touring tire in a T- or H-rating will help a little and have a little more flex, but you will still have a low profile tire. You still have the same stiff springs and shocks. I'm more inclined to agree with your Goodyear guy.

regards,
kyfdx

Edit: I just checked your stock size.. It looks like it is 205/55-16. If you went to the expense of 15" wheels, you could put 195/65-15 on it.. There should be a lot of stock Honda wheels and a lot of choices in touring tires in that size. I normally wouldn't recommend it, but you probably aren't going to find much in an easier riding tire in your stock size.. If you go that route, be sure and save your stock tire/wheel set-up to put back on the car when you sell it.

rmd122 · September 2004

I'm looking to replace my OEM worn out 195/65/15 tires on my 01 Accord 4 cyl with 45K. I'm in South Florida (no snow),mostly suburban, easy going driving. I'm looking for decent replacement tires that are good in the rain/wet. My long term tire shop is pushing Cooper SLE Touring tires but I can't find any reviews and tirerack doesn't sell them. I'm also considering Kumho Ecsta, Michelin Hydroedge, Bridgestone Turanza H,Goodyear Assurance. Any tips, comments?

sandman46 · September 2004

Living in the Ft. Lauderdale area, I had the same concerns as you. I ended up with the Turanza LS-T's and am quite happy with them. I got them at Tires Plus, I have an old friend from high school up north who's the manager, so felt obligated.
Great tire and awesome in the rain!

The Sandman :-)

stever · September 2004

If you don't follow Ask Connor at The Tire Rack, you missed this gem:

connortirerack "Ask Connor at The Tire Rack" Sep 16, 2004 2:11pm

Steve, Host

tntitan · September 2004

I went with Dunlop S2000 and love the handling, traction, and price. However, they are only good for about 25-30K for me because I don't drive them down to the wear bars.

I have read many good things from people about the Turanza-LST but I have been trying to find out more on the Goodyear Assurance (all I really know is that they don't make them in my size).

seiken07068 · September 2004

I have a Subaru Imprezza Outback Sport with Potenza RE92 v rated tires.(P205/R55/16) If I want to replace them with a better "all season" tire, ie not necessarily snow tires, but something better in the snow, slush, can I drop to a H rated tire, where there is more of a selection--or must I only choose a v rated tire--even though I won't be driving at 149 MPH!. Thanks
Bernie48

sequoiasoon · September 2004

Check out http://www.nokiantires.com/newsite/tires_popup.cfm?id=6 the WR comes in 205-55-16 V rated and is great in foul weather. It's quiet and is also rated for severe snow (mountain snowflake symbol) by the tire industry.

jeremycole · September 2004

I see the Nokian WR mentioned a lot. What specific qualities do people like about it?

carguy1234 · September 2004

I just had Nokian WR's put on my '01 Sienna a week or so ago. The main reason being that I keep hearing how great they are in poor traction conditions. Online reviews at 'other sites' are outstanding. They are from Finland and are made to handle their harsh conditions.

These are the only true all weather tires I'm aware of that are available. You can keep them on all year, yet they give outstanding winter performance, with decent summer performance.

So far, the dry road performance is just fine (it's a minivan, after all). The added bonus that I wasn't expecting is that they are quiet! Much less road noise than my previous Dunlop SP40's (throw away tires - horrible in the winter), and my BF Goodrich Advantage Plus tires.

Tune in after a month or two, and I'll document the winter performance. We have flurries possible this weekend, so I might get to test them out already!

Note that they are relatively expensive (more than $500 for a set of 4 installed), and are directional, so you have to make sure they are installed in the correct orientations. I was hesitant with directional tires, but these things track like lasers. They are awesome so far!

jaramabeige · September 2004

Dear Everyone:

My four original wheels and tires are 19 inches with 275/45/19, respectively. Now, I have a fifth (spare) but the wheel is 18 inches and the tire is 255/55/18. The spare does not have the same overall height and width, right? I want to replace the tire. What tire size would you recommend so that all five will have the same height/width? Thanks.

driftracer · October 2004

1/4" in height difference between the two - I can't fathom a reason to drop $600-800 for a whole new wheel and tire just to make up 1/4"...

kyfdx · October 2004

Yeah..almost exactly the same.. The 19" were probably optional for your car? And the 18" was the stock size? Probably kept the spare at 18" because it is skinnier and easier to store.. Hard to say, without knowing what kind of car you have, and where the spare is stored.

regards,
kyfdx

jsylvester · October 2004

Check out Goodyear Assurance ComforTreds. The tire seems to perform as advertised. Check it out at Tirerack.com

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tir- eModel=Assurance+ComforTred&partnum=17TR5ACT&vehicleSearc- h=true&fromCompare1=yes

I'm wanting to put them on my 94 Grand Marquis, but I have to decide how long I'll be keeping the car. I just drove my 2000 Intrepid 800 miles on Saturday, and how I wish I would taken the Grand Marquis instead - it is a much more comfortable road car, and the Intrepid is not bad.

sduford · October 2004

I was shopping for Ultra-High Performance All Season tires on Tire Rack and was disapointed that the top-rated Pirelli PZero Nero M+S was not available in the right size for my 2005 Outback XT (225/55-R17).
So just for fun I started comparing the actual dimensions of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S in 225/55-17 vs the Pirelli in 235/55-17, turns out they are of identical diameter (27.1") and thread width (9.2"). The Pirelli even requires a few more turns per mile (968 vs 964) indicating that it is actually just a smidgen smaller than the Michelin.

Weird no? But this tells me that I can actually use the Pirellis. This is good news as they are not only rated a bit better than the Michelin, but more importantly they cost $60 less per tire!

capriracer · October 2004

Whoa, big fella!!

There is more to tire sizing than the physical dimensions. In fact, the primary purpose in tire sizing is LOAD CAPACITY.

For example: The Pirelli's you discussed - P235/55R17's have a load index of 98 = 1653 pounds, while the Michelin's - 225/55R17 (note the lack of a P) have a load index of 97 = 730 kg (1609 pounds)

Aside from the fact that there are 2 different types of sizing systems here (P = US, no P = European), which is going to confuse matters especially since TireRack doesn't show the P or lack thereof, there are different tolerances for the sizing. This might mean that while the "Specs" show one thing, the actual tire dimensions might be something slightly different, especially after the tire grows in service.

So you need to check to see if there really is enough room for some slight growth, especially if you aren't using the original tire (which I think is a Bridgestone)

Hope this helps.

sduford · October 2004

Thanks for the info.

Well, in this case it sounds like the load rating is not an issue, at only 44 pounds of difference between the two.

If I compare the Pirreli to the OE tires (Bridestone RE-92A, there is a difference of .2 " in height and .2" in width. There is also a difference of 7RPM, so the Pirelli would cause the spedometer to read less than 1% slower. Someone just told me that the spedometer reads about 8% too fast, so it would be an improvement.

I doubt that such a small size difference would be a problem fitting on the car, but I will ask the Tire Rack.

Thanks again.

fish8 · October 2004

Anyone have any thoughts on the following 2 sets of tires for a 2002 Chevy tahoe:

General Grabber AW

Continental Contitrac

snarks · October 2004

I was writing to ask how hard is it get a return on a tire? I have had vibration problems although subtle but annoying at speeds 75MPH+. The Subaru dealer acknowledged but said their machine could not address.

They recommended going to place with Hunter Road Force machine. Apparently it checks balance and also simulates 4000 lbs of force on tire and shows high and low spots of rim and tire and optimal mounting area.

So I go to a place that has a Bridgestone banner up. Anyway they test them and three tires register marginal and 16 lbs of force, but the last one in the rear shows 18 lbs and says not pass according to machine. They stated no adjustment on rims possible. Finally I find out I cannot return them there anyway as they are not authorized, so I have to go to another authorized dealer :{!

I am wondering if Bridgestone will warranty this?
Anyone have such an experience?

Its also annoying Subaru dealer does not take care of this.

sandman46 · October 2004

I had these same crap tires on my '03 Sentra and hated them. Eventhough I rotated them at 3.5 k and 8 k miles and kept the alignment and proper air pressure, by 10k miles they were showing wear and were squirrely on wet pavement. My high school friend at the local tire store recommened I try the Turanza LS-T's and even gave me his employee discount. In a word, these tires are OUTSTANDING! The car drives better than it did when new, and the car handles the wet and dry weather like I'm driving on rails...simply incredible tires!
I was pretty hesitant about Bridgestone after the RE 92's and almost bought some Firestone tires. Am very glad I listened to his advise and got the Turanza's

The Sandman :-)

snarks · October 2004

Unfortunately for me this is a second go around with them. They came OEM on my 95 Civic EX and were ok except bad in the snow and fortunately wore out at 30,000 miles.

I can't wait till they wear out but my car is brand new essentially.

capriracer · October 2004

First, the warranty probably covers the tires for vibration up to 2 /32nds wear or 5,000 miles, whichever occurs first. So if your car is over that limit, then it is possible the tire has a misalignment wear related vibration, so the tire wouldn't be covered.

The Subaru dealer should have arranged to address the issue if this was a new car, so I'm going to guess it is either out of the warranty limit, or not a new car.

The last tidbit is that the road force numbers you quoted should be generating only a little vibration, and might not be any better with new tires. I don't know why the place you went to has reset the acceptable limits on their machine, but it is set quite a bit lower than it came from the factory.

You mentioned no adjustment on rim is possible? Do you mean the the rims are out of round and the they can't handle the replacement? OR Do you mean that rotating the tires on the wheels is not going to improve the situation? This may be part of the problem as it is common for vehicle manufacturers to purposely build the wheels off center, then match the low point of the wheel with the high point of the tire.

I wonder if this place that did the road force also reset the rim limits. IMHO, the Hunter's preset wheel limits are set too high and need to be reduced to 1/3 the preset limits. Put another way, the machine will say the wheel is OK, when it is 3 times the value that the vehicle manufacturer sets. What this really does is make people think that the wheels are OK, so the tires must be bad. I've seen people go through multiple sets of tires before they figured it out.

Hope this helps.

imidazol97 · October 2004

The limits for certain GM cars is I recall around 17. But on my car when they rotated a tire on a rim, and got 3 out of 4 tires below 10, it made a world of difference at my Buick dealer.

The one tire registered at 12. And I could tell when it moved to the rear. And then I could tell when it came back to the front.

This sensitivity may be specific to the car I have..., but I think lower is better.

The service manager told me that ram-tested tires that came from GM to replace problem tires could register up to 17 or so. It's better to get your own tire's readings lower by working on the tire. Replacements may still have problme ratings.

Tire manufacturers have not kept up with the needs of cars in terms of round tires that roll round.

The out-of-round rolling on my Symmetrys has improved as I got over 15K. I'm now at 20K. It seems that the tires must have broken in????

edh · October 2004

tire sales people will not tell you which brands are "rounder" or quieter

both are things some people want

snarks · October 2004

The car is brand new with 5300 miles and had vibration present at 200 miles. Subaru swapped wheels with another WRX, vibration still present so they replaced axles. The vibration subsized substantially. However there was a slight amount still present in the floor. Subaru rebalanced wheels at 3000 miles and it did not make a lot of difference.

Now I the last post of one tire place (local one to NH) state those number and say the tires were in balance.

Today I take it to a compotent well known tire shop in the area that is a Bridgestone tire dealer. They state one, who used the cheap wheels weights and a tire is of balance and rebalance. The vibration has improved now to very little and a small amount present. Today's tire place said road force was only 4 lbs or so? They both used the same machine to check.

Yes I think Subaru should pay for this, however I did get a rotation out of it the first time for $30 (they forgot to charge for analysis I guess which is more). The competent tire seller charged me $24.

It sucks while the car is warranty but Subaru said I had to take up problem with Bridgestone since they balanced the tires to 65MPH and that is all their machine does (they said go to were a hunter is).Subaru service acknowledged that at 75MPH+ it vibrated which today was taken care of.

Still small amount but nothing major. Not completely satisfied but tired of it all. (three shops in three days, luckily I work on a laptop).

sandman46 · October 2004

I really want to put some Z rims that I saw at Sears on my '03 Sentra. But having aftermarket rims many years ago has left me unwilling to do the swap at this point. I had so many problems getting the wheels balanced properly, always had a slight annoying vibration. One shop balanced them on the car and did a fantastic job, but they went out of business.
Are rims these days easier to balance or should I just keep the steelies and bolt on wheel covers? I really do like the Z racing rims I saw at Sears though!

The Sandman :-)

capriracer · October 2004

The facts that they took a set of tires and rims from another (and I assume a non-vibrating) car and the 4 pounds road force (at 4 pounds you should feel nothing!!), means the vibration is coming from somewhere else.

Hope this helps.

capriracer · October 2004

Buick has some known sensitive vehicles, been that way for years. There's another web site where a guy with a new Buick has been unable to get rid of a vibration no matter what gets replaced. Why GM hasn't fixed this is beyond imagination. The fact that the location of a 12 pound tire can be sensed is an indication of the sensitivity.

Here's the focal point - It is much easier for vehicle manufacturers to make the vehicles stiff, and therefore sensitive to wheel end vibrations, than it is for tire manufacturers to make the tires more uniform. This is not to mention certain components that are prone to resonance, like steering columns.

The assessment that tire manufacturers have not kept pace with the vehicle manufacturers is exactly on point. BUT, I've watched tire uniformity specs drop by half, while the vehicle sensitivity has increased 4 fold. The problem is the rate of change is out of balance.

Hope this helps.

capriracer · October 2004

Aftermarket wheels are a real problem.

OE wheels are designed to be centered by the center hub. Unfortunately aftermarket wheels have to fit several types of vehicles and the hub diameters are different. So many aftermarket wheels have rings that are inserted in the center hole so they will be centered. They are usually made of aluminum or plastic - which is a problem in itself.

I have become aware that there are many alloy wheels coming from China - and the quality is vatiable. I've seen some very expensive wheels have poor roundness and balance - but,yeah, they looked good!

Hope this helps.

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