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Let's start with a new tire. Both the tread pattern and the road surface interact to create noise. The problem here is that it is difficult to predict what the road surface macrotexture is, so a tire pattern can be optimized for it.
Clearly a smooth tire would be best for noise (there are some exceptions to this), but this would not be good for bad weather traction.
Given that a tire has to have both circumferential grooves (the most effective technique for hydroplaning) and lateral grooves and sipes for both wet traction and snow traction, it's a matter of choosing grooves and sipes that interact with the road surface in a way the spreads the noises being generated across a wide range of frequencies, thereby minimizing that peaks that would be heard as noise - a very difficult thing to do.
One of the techniques to minimize tire vibrations - which includes things that can be felt as well as heard - is pitch sequencing. If you look at the tread pattern of a tire, you will notice the size of the tread elemments varies in size around the circumference. The pattern is more or less random. This prevents a harmonic from being set up.
Now what about a worn tire? It is possble to wear a pattern into tire that will generate noise.
Vehicles like to have a bit of toe in so they feel stable. This toe in creates a bit of extra wear on tires that comes out as feathering and heel and toe. If allowed to grow, cupping and diagonal wear. Depending on the road surface, the amount of toe in, and the tread pattern (not to mention the tread compound), this wear pattern might be more auditory than tactile.
But feathering and heel and toe are normal wear mechanisms, so don't be fooled that if you have feathering, you have a problem. (Go out to your vehicles and rub the tires both directions. I'll bet that at least some of the tires, most likely the ones on the free rolling axles, will have sharpish edges rubbing one direction and not the other. THIS IS NORMAL!!!)
So to answer the question - It's basically tread pattern, but more time spent in research optimizing the tread pattern yields less noise generation. So it's also quality and price.
Hope this helps.
Thanks.
For the money, these are tough to beat.
Just make sure you get the Turanza LS model... There are a lot of Bstone tires with the Turanza name...
Also, they are sort of pricey...
regards,
kyfdx
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Doug
Tires are indeed very quiet, and they're not as pricey as some of the competition either. They're the right choice for my money...
And you don't have to go far for Tire Rack advice:
Ask Connor at The Tire Rack
Steve, Host
However, the pulling occurs again after the tire rotation recently. I also noticed that the two newer tires are now in the front when the van pulls to one side.
The Honda service said that I got bad tires again and I have to talk to Michelin's dealership.
I went to Sears. They try to identify which tire is causing the problem. They then showed me that one wheel of the newer tires is wobbling. They said that the bent wheel is causing the pulling.
Well, the Honda service doubt that the bent wheel is the cause.
Please advise what the cause is and what to do with that.
Thanks.
It ties into mileage under the assumption that if it isn't running as fast, it will use less gas.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't think you can reliably correlate this number to fuel efficiency. There are too many other variables. For an extreme example, you can't mount Prius wheels on an SUV and expect to get 50 MPG!
What you can say is each time the wheel rotates once there is a certain loss of energy. Rotating it more often per mile on the same vehicle in the same conditions would loose more energy. If you changed the tire diameter, for example by going from a 50 series tire to a 70 series while keeping the other numbers on the tire the same, you would lower the number of revs. per mile. This would not necessarily improve mileage however.
First, tire rolling resistance (and therefore loss) varies by tire size and type.
Second, by changing the tire diameter, you in effect change the gearing (engine to road), and that can effect mileage (usually lower engine RPM will give better mileage but not always - for example you can get poorer mileage by "lugging" the engine). In general, if you don't stray too far from the stock values, increasing tire diameter can give you better mileage. Don't expect miracles however. You may see 5 to 10% if you are lucky. Remember, vehicle manufacturers are pressured to build units that give the "best mileage they can reasonably get", both by government regs. and by sales pressure. Improving on what the engineers worked for months on is possible, but there will be tradeoffs.
You can usually get slightly better mileage by increasing tire pressure a few PSI above the recommended value, but you will then probably wear the centre of the tread faster than the sides, decreasing tire life.
You must always fully consider the tire/wheel load requirements if you are planning on changing them from the manufacturers chosen size.
The latest issue of Consumer's reports (just came yesterday) has a big test on all season tires. take it for what you want, but one of the catagories they rate is rolling resistance. it is interesting reading though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I have about 23,000 miles on my 2001 Toyota Prius' OEM tires, I think that's about 2 years of service (I'd have to double-check my notebook in my car for the exact date). My usual pressure is about 41F/39R.
OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92 XL
P175/65 R14 84S
original tread depth is supposedly 10/32"
Measuring the 4 main grooves:
left outside ---> inside; right inside ---> outside
left front: 7, 8, 8, 7 ; right front: 5, 7, 6, 5
eft rear: 6, 7, 7, 7 ; right rear: 6, 6, 5, 4
My husband has about 24,000 miles on his 2004 Toyota Prius with OEM tires.
That's just shy of 2 years. Usual pressure is around 40F/38R.
OEM Goodyear Integrity
P185/65 R15 86S
original tread depth is supposedly 10/32"
Measuring the 3 main grooves:
left outside ---> inside; right inside ---> outside
left front: 6, 8, 7 ; right front: 6, 7, 5
left rear: 5, 7, 6 ; right rear: 5, 6, 5
Unfortunately, neither car has been in for an alignment yet. But the tires do get rotated (or so says my paid work orders) at every oil change (6 months or 7500/5000 miles).
So, I have more tread wear on the edges, and it looks like about 2/32" of
tread wear per year...
Just some data points for those out there...
Anyhow, the question I have is: is it time to dump these tires, or should I hold onto them for another season? (I know a number of Prius owners hate the OEM tires...)
I know that I need to invest in some snow tires for this upcoming MA winter. Last winter I kept sliding backwards down my paved but icy driveway with my 2001, and my husband slid into a snowbank or two with his 2004 BC (and the front bumper still keeps popping off of some of its clips).
I was thinking of just going straight to some Nokian WR A.W.P.2 tires (4-season tires with the Severe Service emblem) for full-time use, but...
Should I/can I just put the Nokian WR onto the current aluminum rims for this winter, change back to the OEM tires for the upcoming spring/summer/fall 2006, and then remount the WRs for the following winter and on? Or should I get some steel rims just for this winter for the WRs, and then move them back when I dump the OEMs?
Or should I just buy some steel rims and winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 or Nokian RSI), and then have to look into buying another 3-season tire (Nokian NRHi/i3) in another year or so? (This seems much more expensive and more hassle than just going for the WRs above, but...)
Just looking for any tire/wheel advice. Thanks in advance!
So, in your case, I would get the dedicated snows, and then just put the current wheels/tires back on, and use them until you think they are used up, then get new ones. Normally I would get summer tires, but you will probably be better off with an all season, just don't have to worry as much about snow capabilities.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If I had new tires mounted on either of those cars, I would get a four-wheel alignment. I also think that when any part of the tread gets down to 4/32", that tire is going to be a bit dodgy in the rain (and really bad in the snow). Since it's on the rear, that makes your car more prone to oversteer (mentioned above).
Steve, Host
That's why I like the CR reviews. I'm not sure how they do the tests, but they are pretty thurough so I assume their is some validity to them, and they seem oblivious to the name.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
BUT as far as the rest of Michelin tires they HAVE been RIDING on their reputation. It's a reputation for round tires that stay round and hold their balance. It's a reputation for using them on the H platform for GM when the light weight parts of the suspension and a rigidity or something allows slight vertical/horizontal vibrations caused by tire crush differences as they roll (force variation) as the cure for other brands of tires that aren't as well made.
I put Harmony's on my 98 to replace X-Ones that are over 80K and have about 25% of tread depth left but have lost grip in snow. They are great in water and in snow.
I recall one of the tire reviews for CR a few years ago being criticized for an odd outcome (winter tires?) and suggestions being made of conflict. That would be really rare for CR to have an outside conflict. Opinions, yes; conflicts, no.
I hope they have learned how to evaluate tires well since they started a few years ago.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They really gripped in snow last winter.
I have Symmetrys on my 03. They also gripped when new. And of course they've worn down 30K worth. They've stayed round and never needed to be rebalanced after the dealer got the wheels and tires and alignment straightened out with a Hunter 9700 force balancer at 10K.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Michelin Harmonys were rated #7, Pirelli Cinturato #12 and Goodyear Weatherhandler LS was last at #18.
So, while the Hydroedge fairly scored well overall against the competition...in the hydroplaning category it tied for last with 7 others recieving the middle score of "good"(empty circle).Meaning 11 other tires scored better in the hydroplaning category. The CR quick pick had the Hydroedge performing "capably" but was "nosier" "with mediocre hydroplaning resistance"
I suppose noise level is a bit subjective. I have read that some people feel the Hydroedge is quiet and some think they are noisy. Would be nice if you could pull into a tire store and demo a set of tires for say 10 bucks.
I'm torn between the traction t/a and yokohama avid h4s for my 95 nissan maxima SE. I'm looking for a H rated, all season tire with the best possible snow/ice traction as possible without having to go to dedicated snow tires. I had a set of traction t/a tires on my wife's corolla (they were not H rated however) and I wasn't particularly pleased with uneven tread wear I observed despite being mindful of alignments. However, I'm willing to give the goodrich tires another try. Does anyone have any comments on these two tires for my vehicle and requirements?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HPAS
When it comes to me replacing;the two tires you mention are some of my top choices, also for a TDI Jetta 195-65-15
Does anyone know why neither of these tires were included in the recent CR report?
I recently had a set of BF Goodrich Traction T/As installed at my local tire shop. They are the same size as the original OEM tires. The door frame label says 28psi for all 4 tires. After I got my car home from the tire shop, I let it sit over night, and then went out to see what pressure the tire shop set them at. All 4 were set at 42psi. I thought this was pretty odd. Any reason why they would have done this? I wondered if maybe the guys misread the guage, and put them at 42 while thinking they were at 32???
So for example the easiest is to start with the max sidewall pressure on the recommended tire for ones application. Common ones are 35, 44, 51 psi. Me I do 85% of max sidewall pressure. Since most of my tires are 44 psi the point of departure that has worked across different sets of tires has been 38 psi.
For example on a Jetta TDI half load recommendation is 26 psi front and rear. Full load recommendation is 30 f, 41 r. So really one can put in 26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41. psi.
And that's one of the reasons I frequent these web sites - to answer such questions.
But the important point here is that the load table doesn't give you the optimum - it gives you the MAX load the tire should carry at a given pressure.
Now let's discuss this "85% rule". Ruking and I have a disagreement as to the validity of this rule, so let me give you my take on the subject.
The maximum pressure that is written on the sidewall of a passenger car tire has nothing - let me say that again - nothing - to do with the load vs inflation pressure curve. It has everything to do with 1) reducing heat generation at high speeds and 2) the way different people interpret the language of the law.
P metric standard load tires reach their maximum load capacity at 35 psi. But it is permissible to use higher inflation pressures under certain circumstances. The standardizing bodies have selected 44 psi and 51 psi as possible alternatives. (those come out in SI units as 3.0 bar and 3.5 bar). So it is up to the tire manufacturer to decide what he wants to put on the sidewall. But even if 35 psi is put on the sidewall you can still use 44 psi, because it is part of the standard.
I know, this is terribly technical, but welcome to my world.
Then would you agree that oem's such as VW have it incorrect?
For example, the Jetta TDI placard (mine specifically) (which I would think carries some legal liabilities) says for Half load 26 psi F/R. For Full load 30 F and 41 R.
If as you say it has "nothing" to do with load and inflation pressure then why do they print such balderdash? So why not put anything from 26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44, or as you say overload of a 44 psi tire is ok then 45,46,47,48,49,50,51,. Can we go still higher?
I am by no means an expert in the field, just a consumer whose life and limbs are "riding on the tires".
The max pressure on the side of the tire is 44. I lowered them to 33 to soften the ride up a bit - at the "manufacturer's recomendation" of 28, they look a little slack to me. I tend to vary my tire pressures quite a bit depending upon if the car will be carrying a load, or if I will be doing some beach driving (in which case I go down to @20), or if it is just normal commuting. I don't think I have ever exceeded 36 though. I try to stay on top of tire pressure monthly.