Tires, tires, tires

tason67 · June 2001

I have P195 70R14's on my 96 Dodge Stratus. I was considering going up to P195 75R14. The tire guy said that this would make the car a little taller. Would this have an adverse effect on my suspension components as this is a larger size than the OE's? Thanks for your help

bretfraz · June 2001

Why do you want to go to the bigger size? For off-road clearance? ;-)

Seriously, I see no advantage of doing that. I vote for sticking with the OE size.

See my post #307 and comments to Camryfan as to various tire choices. All will be less than $75.00.

Do you have a warehouse club membership?

toddar · June 2001

I need a little help. I am looking for a suggestion on replacement tires for my S-80 T-6. The factory Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's (225/50 R17 94V) are getting to the end of their useful life at about 30K. They are okay but I was looking for any suggestions on better handling/wear/ride. I do a good mix of city and highway driving. Since I am not on the Autobahn, I do not think a Z rated tire is necessary. Also, the upgraded Michelin's appear a little pricey. Also, my 30K service is approaching and this is an expensive one. Any suggestions from you all knowledgeable ones would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

heng · June 2001

If your car is rough riding, I doubt changing tire sizes will make any significant difference as many other things in the suspension contribute to the 'rough' ride.

heng · June 2001

You have a couple of contradictory tire requirements. You want better handling and a smoother ride. Those are tough to balance.

Only someone who personally has had a set of the Pilots and a set of other tires that meet your desires can really suggest something.

rbaker4 · June 2001

Have had alot of good ideas concerning my instability in windy conditions with respect to the above car. Any other thoughts about what might be causing the instability?

I think it is the tires. I had the suspension checked and everything is OK. I am looking for possible solutions, other than trading the car.

Overall, the car is great and I think I just need a performance oriented tire rather than the all-season 215/60/R16 Goodyear Invicta GA.

Thank you community for your input - it is much appreciated.

namfflow · June 2001

I have to agree, the Invictas are garbage as far as a tire goes. They came on my Dakota in 87. Withion 10K miles I was replacing them with Pirellis. The Invictas have no handling, squeal like a pig in corners and steer themselves. Plus they have no traction in the rain.

Personally I think they are undsafe and should be pulled off the market.

I would give a set of Pirelli P6000 Sport Veloce a shot on your Lexus. They may be a little noisy for you but I think you will like the performance and the price. I think Pirellis because they don't spend much on advertising are one of the trur bargains of the tire world.

heng · June 2001

This is a brand new Lexus right? Not off a used car lot. I can't believe they put such out dated garbage tires on a Lexus.

I'm now sure that a set of modern quality tires will improve your car greatly.

tason67 · June 2001

I went to Belle tire and bought a ste of four Kelly M+S radials, in the OE size with road hazzard warranty, out the door at $271. Not bad. Thanks for your advice

bretfraz · June 2001

Good job. Enjoy the ride.....

timadams · June 2001

Does anyone have an opinion (stupid question, right) about roadhazard warranties offered by tire sellers? I'm guessing they are similar to extended warranties sold by car dealers - a major profit center that is not worth what they charge.

But I'd like to hear whether anyone thinks if a roadhazard warranty is worth the extra dough.

yurakm · June 2001

I bought the road hazard insurance when changed tires. Mostly for peace of mind. As well as I remember, it was not so expensive - something like $40 for all 4 tires.

At this price, hardly a major source of profit for the tire dealership. Do not mind, though, if they will make a couple of bucks. Or $10-$20 for this matter. I like the dealer.

bretfraz · June 2001

Of course, what exactly is and is not covered is a deciding factor.

To me, it's one of those things that is a good idea as long as you are in a position to use it. For example, a travelling sales rep would be exposed to all kinds of road hazards and possible high costs to replace a damaged tire. They would be great candidates for the warranty. But what are the chances that person could get warranty service when they're on the road? Even with a national chain, would you be close enough to a store to actually use the warranty if needed?

Now, if you stayed close to home then the likelihood of having a damaged tire might be lower (this is hypothetical, of course). And if you did have tire damage, the chances of being close to a store that can fix it are higher.

So I guess its one of those dichotomies: The people that could really benefit from it stand a greater chance of not being able to use it. And the people who could easily use it may never need to.

Whew!! Way too much thought went into that~~~~~~~

dfwk2500 · June 2001

I used to pass on the road hazard warranty, but on the last few tire purchases I have had it and it has paid for itself. My wife alternates her driving between our Suburban and "her" Volvo C70. Because of the size of the Suburban the right side tires (the right rear in particular) seem to enjoy meeting up with the curbs around here. Eventually this contact causes a bubble or in one case a cut tire. These road hazards have been covered and saved me the expense of replacing the tires. Unfortunately, in replacing the tires in pairs, I have been stuck paying for the second tire to get a match across the axle. The Volvo on the other hand has low profile, high performance tires that she treats like they are the truck tires. For example, if there is something in the road that the truck could just run over, she seems to think the Volvo can too. Needless to say the Volvo tires are not quite as durable as the truck's all terrain tires. So, for our driving experiences, the road hazard warranty is worthwhile.

ke4yyd · June 2001

I am paranoid about the Firestone tires on my Ford Escape and considered replacing them with Michelin Cross Terrain. Local dealers are unable to get them and the Continental Contitrac SUV were available. This tire is presently OEM on the Escape. The tire is $50 per tire less than the Michelins. Does any one have any experience with these tires and make reccomendations?

drew_ · June 2001

Have you tried Tirerack.com? They probably have the Cross Terrains in stock and can ship it to you. I've read nothing but good things from people that have the Cross Terrains, so they appear to be great on-road all-season tires.

Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

vezini · June 2001

Hello All:

Thanks for the advice in the past.

I did purchase the BF Goodrich Advantage Plus at SAM's Club for our 98 Minivan (215/70/R15). It appears to be the same tire as the Control TA M80.

The price was great, the service was good, and everything is running smooth. $280 for four tires with 65K warranty, road hazard, balance, install, tax and disposal.

I will be going back to Sam's when my car needs tires later this year.

Vezini

ke4yyd · June 2001

Tirerack has the Cross Terrains on back order.

I have become interested in the Continental Contitrac SUV as they are available and $50 per tire less in price. This company is popular in Europe but need some comments from those who have used this brand.

David

tireguy · June 2001

Cateorically? I have a degree in journalism and I've never heard that one.
Of course it's the tires. Are you kidding me? Lowering a Lexus? I think the spring kit available from H&R comes with a free gold tooth and a 10-inch subwoofer. Tweaking with the suspension would have no effect on your unsolicited yaw moments because the surface area of your windward side has not changed; nor has the pivot point of your front wheels.
Obviously you're kicking yourself in the rear for going from a BMW to a Toyota and expecting the same performance. Don't take it out on Bret; he's just trying to help.
You're right, installing a rear spoiler would not solve your problem at regular speeds, though an increase in downforce (and friction at the contact points) at VERY high speeds, would help. Unfortunately, most rear wings are purely cosmetic, and those which aren't don't go into effect until around 90 mph. If there were an aeronautical engineer in this forum, he or she would probably tell you that the only way you could correct this problem aerodynamically would be to increase longitudinal stability (not lateral), aft of your vehicle's center of gravity. Have you considered welding a five-foot vertical stabilizer to your trunk? You could attach the rudder to your steering wheel and use the trim tabs to compensate for continuous crosswinds on those long trips. Wouldn't that be great?
Or maybe you could just purchase some better (non-Goodyear) tires with more robust sidewalls, eh?
----Chris

tireguy · June 2001

Tim,
Think of road hazard coverage not as a warranty, but more like once-and-done insurance. Every tire (except for blems and used tires) will carry a manufacturer's warranty against any defects (separated layers, broken belts, or other things resulting from improper manufacturing), automatically, just like a new vehicle warranty.
If your new car throws a rod, the vehicle warranty will cover it. Similarly, if the tire's tread layer becomes separated from the inner layer (ala Firestone), the manufacturer's warranty should cover the cost of replacement.
If you run into a telephone pole, your vehicle warranty will not benefit you, whereas your insurance will. Road hazard protection is the same type of covereage--protecting you aginst things that are not the manufacturer's fault.
If a tire is defective, the warranty should cover it; if you destroy a tire, it is protected by your road hazard coverage.
Anyone who doesn't purchase road hazard coverage is either a fool or a gambler. But the odds really don't pay off. I'd much rather pay $10 now than risk paying $80-$200 later.
--Chris

timadams · June 2001

Thanks, Tireguy! I just bought 4 new tires yesterday (Bridgestone Potenza RE950, BTW), and when I hesitated at the $40 price for the roadhazard warranty (I agree with you tireguy that it is actually insurance), he lowered the price to $28 for 4 tires, which I accepted. Overall, I'm real happy with the tires, the price I paid and the roadhazard insurance price.

brucelinc · June 2001

Hi, Tireguy. A couple of times you have mentioned that the Symmetry was a good value but I would be interested in your comments regarding ride and noise qualities. If the goal is a soft, quiet ride in my grandmother's Town Car, would the Symmetries be a good choice? As I recall, the original equipment were XW4s. Thanks.

bretfraz · June 2001

Every new Town Car I've rented had the Symmetry as the OEM tire. Same with the Mercury Grand Marquis. The Crown Vic's seem to come with Firestone Affinity's, same as the Taurus.

Yep, I drive a lot of Fords.

TG will give you the scoop between the Symmetry and the XW4 but check our Michelin's website also.

ke4yyd · June 2001

Some tires of the same type, size and load capacity have different psi at which that load capacity is obtained. Suppose brand X. has a 1900 lb load capacity at 35 psi and brand Y has a max load capacity of 1900 lbs at 44 psi. If the auto manufacturers door placard recommends 30 psi for a particular vehicle then will both brand X. and brand Y have the same load carrying capacity at 30 psi or will brand Y be less. If there is a difference, does the manufacturers take this in account when stating recommended psi.

chuasan · June 2001

I am buying a set of tire which has ax. 51psi. The DE tires has 44psi and the manufacture recommends 32/30 psi for front/rear. Should I use the same pressure for my new 51psi tires? Or I should increase the tire pressures? Thanks

Chris

alex18t · June 2001

ive got a tire that was a 3 inch slice in it from the side wall to the base of the tread. it is not extremely deep, only the exterior rubber is showing, no inner side wall or steel belts. but it is a big slice that you can part with your fingers ya know? wod you replace this imediately? this question isnt nescessarily just for tireguy. i ask this only because i do not want to replace 2 tires. ( i have nother tire with a bad tread ) immediately and waste the money because what i really want is some wider high perfeormance tires but i drained my funds unexpectedly so i have to wait. on the other hand if i buy 2 OEM tires it will only be 60$ a tire. what should i do?

and Chuasan personally i go by what feels good. and how the wear looks. ive gotten to where i can feel a difference between a 2 psi difference in the tires and there is a handling difference notable. i think you should try out what feels best for you. and the front and rear do not need to be the similar psi. my manufacturer's suggestion is 29/29 but i have it on 32/27 because it allows for better turn in and road feel. and i started messing around with the tire pressure in the first place only after a conversation with an autocrosser frien of mine. but to answer your question. 32psi is a pretty standard pressure for cars. in many auto shops they even use 35psi as the standard when they check fluids and pressures or you. rarely will a shop look in the door jam for the suggested psi. you should be fine with the manufacturers suggestion.

chuasan · June 2001

Thanks, I really appreciated your input. Before I read your comment. I contacted a sales rep from TireRack. He gave me a similar advice - 32/29 psi is appropriate for my new set but I can always increase few more psi if I prefer better cornering, etc.

Well, I am quite exctied about my new tires - Continental TouringContact CH95. I chose it because my friend's car has it and the ride is quiet and decent cornering. On top of that, it's affordable. I will post a comparison soon with my previous tire - firestone Affinity.

gogaijin · June 2001

I've got 14 inchers in there now - pretty poor, would like to upgrade. I don't need the 1 millimeter to the rim import look, would like lettered tires -- General or Viper...

Ideas?

chuasan · June 2001

Hi,

I can not find any info about this subject here. Please tell me if there's a guideline during the break-in period (if it exists!) Also, if it does exist, how long or how many days do tires need to break-in. Thank you

namfflow · June 2001

Yes tires do need a break in period. Think about a new tire being like a loaf of bread. There is a crust then you get to the good stuff. With tires it takes anywhere from 50 to 500 miles to break them in. That is when you will start to see them work at there best. Just try to keep from spinning the tires or anything else besides keeping them planted on the pavement and you'll be okay.

The worse thing about the break in period is that is when most tires handle the worse particularly in the rain.

chuasan · June 2001

Thanks, I will keep that in mind; actually, my car is not capable to spin tires

Chris

heng · June 2001

Tires also need some heat cycling which comes with normal driving. This completes the curing of the rubber. However, I've read about instances where, in high performance driving (as in race track or similar driving), new tires were put on and shortly thereafter, disintegrated. It was concluded (with tire company input) that the tires require the initial heat cycling before high performance driving is attempted.

Tire suppliers (like Tirerack) do offer this heat cycling at their facility before shipping tires (extra cost service). You need it only if you are going to mount the tires and immediately go racing.

rbaker4 · June 2001

I have a Donzi sportboat with trim tabs and they do wonders for stability. Tell me how to adopt that to my Lexus?? I think it is a great idea. The five foot vertical stabilizer is also a good idea but it might obscure my rearward vision. As far as Bret is concerned, his "macro" view (misused by the way) was to trade the car, hardly a viable option. At least you have some valid options. As far as the subwoofer, the car already has one and I have one gold crown, which is enough. The word is categorically, a spelling error on my part. I am sorry that I confused you with the use of the word. I have determined, thanks to you and many others, that the tires are the problem and am attempting to get Lexus to exchange for a higher quality tire. Not certain if they will accommodate my request but it is certainly worth a try. Thanks again for your input.

rbaker4 · June 2001

For your edification, go to L-Tuned.com, and you will see that the GS series Lexus has aftermarket performance mods that do include lowering, wheels, tires, sport shocks, exhaust and steering ECU's. So you might want to check this out, because LOWERING a Lexus is more common than you think. Thought you might like to know this for future reference since you seem very knowledgeable about many other topics.

alex18t · June 2001

by taking a few offramps too fast. then rotate the tires front to back and do the same thing.
i just got new tires yesturday but im not gonna bother.

echorick · June 2001

Does anyone know whether Sport IV tires are any good?

I have four 175P65-14 SportIV H714 tires on my Echo. I bought the car used and the Toyota dealer put these new tires on it. I think they are made by Hankook, but that name is not on the tire.

chuasan · June 2001

Hi,

I just have new tires mounted this afternoon. On the way back, I hear more tire noise than my previous ones (supposely new ones should be quieter!) Do you think the tireshop did a bad job on balancing? or I should let the tires "break-in" first? Do you have similar experience when you mount new tires?

Chris

alex18t · June 2001

if the tires arent balanced you might feel a slight shudder at highway speeds. not a louder tire drone or sound than before. the tires you bought are probably just a louder tire tread pattern or compound. most likely that is how they will sound normally. it is difficult to mess up a balancing job. it is all computerized. the only real variables is the quality of the balancing machine and how much the operator cares about his work. basically the tire machine spins the tire and stops it after a few seconds and points to a spot on the wheel and says, for example, "attach 1/4 ounce weight here", and the guy just puts the weight on. easy.

personally, when i buy a tire i look to buy the best tire that is practical. the best tire means the best gripping tire for my weather and road conditions. i drive on paved streets in dry wet and occasionally snowy conditions. so i bought the best performing all season tire i could find, i also bought a wider size. i look at tires more for fuction. as long as it does it's job well i am happy. i would sacrifice a little quiet for better braking and cornering happily. hope that helps a little, good luck.

chuasan · June 2001

One of my cousin bought a used 99 BMW 323i last weekend. When I asked him if he checked the tire pressure. We found out that the sticker on the door panel is gone and the car doesn't come with a manual.

Can someone who own a 323i give me the tire pressure for front/rear tires. Also we would like to know what's the max. psi for OE tires. Thank you.

Chris

jures · June 2001

i am interested in putting yokohama avs db's on my car, i live in the philadelphia area, i would like to leave these on all year, my question is how do they really perform in snow and ice conditions? i have a 4 wheel drive car that came with continential touring tires, they did ok. thanks for any feedback roger

bretfraz · June 2001

Hi,

The max PSI will be molded into the tire sidewall. Just tell your cousin to read the sidewall to find it.

Recommended PSI can prolly be found at an online BMW club. I don't think anyone in here can help unless they have a '99 323i with the stock tires on it. I's imagine you'll get a faster response by asking BMW owners.

chuasan · June 2001

I thought I found a great deal - paying $40 to mount all 4 tires. Well, that's the end of the good part. After I drove home, I felt there's lots of tire noise and slight vibration when I drove on the street road. So I thought that's just the break-in period. However, when I drove on the highway to office this morning. The car is literally shaking, my steering wheel needs two hands to stay in control (@55mph). I suspect/realize this is due to poor wheel balancing. Man, the ghetto technician must be on crack to consider my tires are "balanced". Now, I need to make another appointment to balance all my tires and that's additional $35 (of cos, I will never go back to that crack shop!) In the end, I could have paid $70 from a reputable tire shop and now I am paying more than that. That's just piss me off. So be aware of those cheapo deals from gas station shops, you might ended up paying more than you should.

jasdmw · June 2001

A bit of info for those looking at purchasing these tires. Upon delivery of our new Sienna, had the option of getting either Dunlop D40's or Firestones. Want nothing to do with Firestone. Found a Goodyear dealer willing to take Dunlops as "take off" trade for Aquatreads. Goodyear now owns Dunlop. Had a demo Sienna equipped with Dunlops prior to ours being delivered. Was able to drive in a snow storm. To put it bluntly, the Dunlops sucked! Researched Aquatreads @ tirerack and decided for the extra $175.00 it's worth it. That was in March. The first installation required 9 tries (9 different tires) to find 4 that didn't "wobble" on the rims as seen while on the balancer. While watching the tire spin, you could see the tread lines move from side to side about 1" or more, on the bad ones! Dealer stated lots of tires, specifically in my size range (215/65/r15) exhibit that problem. Has to do with a new design in the bead area and the way tires mount on aluminum rims. I was quite satisfied with the tire performance in wet driving this Spring. Finally made a highway trip and noted vibration, unbalanced tires. Returned to shop where all 4 were re-balanced. The last tire to be put on the balancer showed the excessive "wobble", even though it was balanced perfectly. They installed another tire. That makes a total of 10 tires to find 4 "good" ones. Now, 4500KMs later and another 2 trips under our belt, everything is fine. No vibrations, smooth running up to 150 KM/Hr+. They are a bit noisy, most noticeable when cornering. Otherwise, very good wet traction, good braking performance. Hopefully snow traction should be superior as well. I recommend them, just watch for the wobble when they are being mounting.

tmundar · June 2001

It is interesting how the media generates irrational fear for a brand of products. I have no affiliation with Firestone, and I do not even own any Firestone tires, but steering away from all Firestone tires is a little irrational, although understandable.

I bring this up because in yesterday's paper I noticed an article that said that some of the tires that Ford is using to replace the Firestones have a higher failure rate.

"Ken Johnson, a spokesman for the House Commerce Committee, said congressional investigators have analyzed the failure rates of replacement tires Ford is using, made by Michelin, Continental and Goodyear, and found some fail more often than Firestone's Wilderness AT tires that have been recalled."

In my years of driving, I have had a tire blowout, a tire disintegrate, and a tread separation, each in a different vehicle, and I never lost control of the vehicle it was on. I believe that this current situation with Explorers is a combination of driver error and the inherent properties to the Explorer.

I can understand a driver losing control of a vehicle that has a front tire blow out, but most of the deaths have been in cars where the rear tires had a tread separation. I feel that in many of these rollover accidents, the driver's reaction to the tread separation was more responsible for the loss of control than the tread separation itself.

There are two types of traits of the Explorer that exacerbate the problem: the traits that increase the chance of tire failure, and the traits that increase the chance of a rollover. The two traits that come to mind for increasing the chance of tire failure are the fact that the Explorers heavy weight puts more strain on a tire, and that Ford recommends relatively low tire pressure, which causes the tires to heat up more. Ironically, one of the reasons for the low tire pressure is to reduce the chance of a rollover by making the tires have less traction. The traits that increase the likelihood of a rollover are the Explorers poor handling dynamics (compared to a car) that increase the likelihood of loosing control, and the Explorer's high center of gravity. I would tend to blame the loss of control more than the high center of gravity for the Explorer accidents.

Any tire can fail, no matter what brand. If you are truly worried about a tire failure, I would suggest buying a vehicle that has a better chance of surviving the failure than worrying about the tire brand. (For example, a Sienna is certainly a better choice than a 4-Runner)

I can certainly understand the desire to eschew all Firestone tires, but there is no logical reason to do so.

Respectfully,
Tom

microrepair · June 2001

I agree with the previous poster, Tom, that there is no need to condemn or avoid all Firestone tires. I had two complete sets of Firestones (FR480?) on a Mazda MX-6 that were awesome. Never even needed rebalancing and were terrific handling tires in all weather conditions, including snow.
At this point, with all the publicity and attention to quality control, the Wilderness AT tires may be one of the best available right now..
It will be interesting to see the Explorer's performance with the Michelin, Conti, and Goodyear tires being noted as possibly inferior by one of our legislators..

yurakm · June 2001

means the Firestone tires are easy available and are selling at discount.

The quality of Firestone tires is rather uneven (the same with Goodyear). Some tire models are between the best, other on the bottom. Impossible shop on the brands, only model by model. The user satisfaction surveys are available at tirerack:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

I have Firehawk SH-30 installed on my Malibu. With the tires it is cornering almost like a sport car, in good weather and bad - it does not matter. The best model in the All-Season High Performance category:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/hpas.jsp

On the other hand, the Firehawk GTA 02 tires made by the same manufacturer are the worst. The difference in price (215/60-R15 for Malibu) is just $7. This is less than $30 for all 4 tires, a couple of gas tanks. No brainer even would it not be one of the most important safety items!

The same with Goodyear: it produces both the best and the worst tires in the All-Season category of low performance tires, Aquatread 3 and Invicta GL:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/as.jsp

bretfraz · June 2001

Interesting thing, those surveys.

Although I feel they are valuable for shoppers, one odd thing I've found is that tires that are OEM seem to get poor survey results when compared to a tire that is only available aftermarket.

Yurakm's post is a good example. The Firehawk GTA comes OE on Lincoln LS, some Saturn models, and the Mercury Cougar (I think). But the SH30 is aftermarket only and gets good scores.

Same with Goodyear. Those Invicta's have been OE on all kinds of cars but the Aquatread isn't.

I wonder why owners dis the OE tire (read some the comments on OE tires, they're pretty harsh) but love the aftermarket?

I don't know fer sure but I think it has a lot to do with expectations and the compromise mfr's have to deal with when choosing an OE tire.

Comments?

tlindeman1 · June 2001

I recently purchased a 2001 Honda Civic and would really like to replace the 14" Firestone FR690's (must be a new all-season Firestone...doesn't look a thing like the FR680) with a 15" wheel and tire. I thought I had decided on the Yokohama Avid Touring but noticed that BF Goodrich has a new touring tire out, the Precept. I was able to examine both at a local tire shop. The BFG seemed to have a little more aggressive tread pattern than the Yokohama and I thought might be a little better in the snow...but also noisier. I had 2 sets of BFG Touring TA SR 4's on previous vehicles and liked them a lot. They were great all-around tires and excellent in the snow. I was impressed with the opinion results of the Yokohama Avid Touring tire in Tirerack also. Tirerack doesn't carry the Precept at this time. Any opinions?

alex18t · June 2001

Nitto tires - they are a small brand. i just got a set of NT450 tires and i love them. look at the site... http://www.nittotire.com i think that's it. these are performance all season tires that are quiet and have a good tread wear rating.

ksub · June 2001

Wanted some help with brands and prices of tires for my '98 honda civic EX. Firestone quoted $300 for 4 FR440's + installation. alignment was $70. Are these normal prices ? Are there any websites that list good quality cheap places for balancing and aligning wheels ? Am not impressed by FR440's rating at tirerack. Any suggestions for better tires at 185/65R14 are most welcome. TIA.

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