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I have a feeling this post too will be short lived. In any event, I will keep you posted.
I do know minski was flew in yesterday and bought the Sequoia he wanted from the guy here for $500 over invoice. I am waiting for mine to be built.
Kind regards,
zinny
It still seems that there should be more control of the bass when at low volume. I think the "active equalization" just has a design flaw that JBL could/would fix if the CEO had to listen to it on a daily basis.
Anyone else get a new amp?
Can anyone provide input on pricing for a SR5 in NY?
Should I expect to pay MSRP or should I be aiming to pay a few hundred over total invoice?
The Edmunds TMV isn't giving much guidance.
Thanks
I never had such a pleasant experience buying a car until this. The guy gave me a quote over the phone, brought in the truck from another dealer, prepped it for delivery with a tank full of gas, and didn't even asked me to put a deposit. Even paid for my taxi ride from the MSP airport.
See my previous post (#1628) for the options on this SR5 4x4. And I did get it at $555 over invoice. No other fees were added ( processing fees, Toyota Dealer Associations fees etc).
Great deal I think, certainly much much better than what's been offered locally.
Anyway, glad I could help.
zinny
Just to double check for when I pick up my
SEQ (t-2weeks) that when I'm in 4x4 high I should
be able to turn maximum left/right circles and
I should not hear any grinding, rattling, hopping, and the wheel feedback should be minimal just like 2WD, right?
Zinny2: I have also been a victim of a couple of deleted posts. The first was a flame that after a second thought I agree should have been pulled. The second was pretty tame and was in response to a very inflammatory post that was allowed to stay. The rules seem to be enforced pretty arbitrarily.
I suspect we will see the Active-Trac on the Tundra in the future. I think the reason we don't have it yet is a pricing issue. The full sized truck market is a bit more price sensitive than the SUV market. In fact, that seems to be the reason that ABS is still an option. Once you have ABS though, it should be fairly inexpensive to upgrade it to the A-Trac. I'm also hoping it will be added to the Tundra by the time my current Tundra lease is up in 18 months.
Two to three weeks is being VERY optimistic by the way. With the type of order they have done, 6 to 8 weeks is more realistic unless they had already ordered it when you came in.
If (and this is a BIG if) they give you the temporary serial number, e-mail it to me and I can get more details for you. My e-mail is sclifford@kjtoyota.com
Di
Tight lines,
Montana Fisherman
Di
ccham
Tony
I have bought BMWs (535i, 740il), Toyotas (Avalon), Nissan (4x4 King Cab), GM (Denali XL) and there is no reason for any consumer to swallow any dealers claim "Because that's how the majority of dealers sell these cars". Whether the car is "hot" or an average seller. Not only isn't it true, its misleading.
Consumer's have a choice with their money and its simply a matter of finding a dealer with a reputable approach to earning a fair profit through disclosure. There is too much information on the internet and elsewhere for a dealership to be successful in the long run with misguided direction such as all dealerships do it that way.
True markets are set by buyers not sellers, when it comes to new cars and trucks.
The "below MSRP" is still an inaccurate indicator of whether or not you are looking at a bargain. The distributor and the dealer can load the vehicle up with tons of overpriced junk and one might feel good about getting $2000 "discounted" price. One has to remember that, in general, the profit margin for the PIO and DIO are MUCH HIGHER than the factory installed options. That's an added incentive for the salesperson to sell what's on the lot, rather than preference or build order one for us.
Dianne
I have two issues, however. 1. The cast aluminum engine parts have white powder on them. Aluminum oxide?? Does it hurt? How to clean/protect?
2. I have the factory Glass Break Sensor. I can't make it give the "warn away" using a couple of test methods. How to adjust sensitivity?? Will pay consulting if anyone has adjustment bulletin. Thanks a bunch.
I'll give you a real world example of how supply and demand affects pricing but I'm going to use MSRP for this example because that is how my customer approached it. I took an order for a white Limited with gray interior 6 weeks ago. The deal was for $1400 off MSRP. the customer in question is an airline pilot and flies to CA and sometimes FL. In the 6 weeks he waited, he did some shopping. When his came in, he confessed that he did check my prices against other dealerships. The best deal he found on a 4x4 Limited was $500 off MSRP and that was from a store local to me in VA.
Now, he did find several stores willing to sell the SR5 at $2000 or a bit more off MSRP, but that is not the model he wanted. The dealerships could have sold it at dead invoice and it would not have been a good deal to him. Value did not exceed the price for him on that model.
Now, a few things need to be remembered here. When he placed his original order, I had no Limited models on the lot. I had only 3 incoming and all three were pre-sold. I had to get a special allocation to get his rig. Today, I have three Limiteds on the lot and two more in allocation. For a store that sells 250 cars a month, this is still not a lot, but would probably result in a bit lower pricing. Conditions change.
I am providing this little story simply to illustrate a point about supply and demand. I'm not arguing that better deals don't exist, nor that it is not valid to ask about invoice pricing. As a consumer, you can choose how you wish to view a deal. That does not change basic economic principles though.
In one case on the trip, I ran about 15 miles (~1 gallon) past the "out of gas" light, which came on as the needle hit the "empty" line. When I filled it up, it took 23.5 gallons. So the light must come on with 3-4 gallons still in the tank as Cliffy said.
I'm trying to decide between a Sequoia and MDX. I drove the Sequoia last week, and loved it, but it barely squeezed in our garage. I'm going to drive the MDX this week.
The width of the Sequoia is listed at 78 inches, and the MDX at 77 inches. Do those figures include the side mirrors? Even with them retracted on the Sequoia (love the power retraction feature), it just fit in the garage. If those figures don't include the side mirrors, then the MDX without the power retractable mirrors would never fit.
Also, does the Sequoia include the ISOFIX child seat anchors? I didn't find anything on the Toyota web site. I do know the MDX doesn't have this key feature (for us at least).
-Craig
The Sequoia does have the ISOFIX seats. There are two of them in the middle and I think at least one of the third row has them but I have not checked.
two minutes, I got two different Web sites: "cobalt" dealing with domain names and
"value.com" dealing with something else!!
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
When I compare the dealer's MSRP and Invoice prices to the figures that I've taken off the Internet, then I know if anything additional has been added or subtracted from my request. The quoted price is the same, and I don't care whether it is above invoice or below MSRP, because it's always in dollars, which is how I pay for cars, at least during the last 30 years.
Supply and demand (adjusted for local economics) determines the final price, you just have to know your options and how much effort you want to put into finding the absolute lowest price. I'm sure that I can buy an SR5 for invoice during the next 30 days, if I'm flexible in features, colors, options and dealer location. There is some dealer, somewhere waiting to unload just one SR5.
But my interest is to buy within a 2-hour drive, so I'm willing to get a quote from a dozen competitive dealers, and place an order, even if I have to wait 6-8 weeks. I try and plan my needs far enough in advance to allow the time lag for ordering.
On the other hand, I have a friend that visited a local dealership last Saturday, and bought a Ford Escape because it came in yellow - he didn't go there to buy a car, never shopped online, never read Consumer Reports, and he's perfectly happy because he's picking up the car on Wednesday. And he's an IT professional too! Go figure.
We also looked at the MDX and found the back seat laughable. I'm buying a car that hopefully will out last my 10 and 11 year olds in my house so I'm looking at what big kids will fit in in 4-5 years, they really can't fit in that third seat of the MDX right now let alone 4 years from now. Also, we felt the MDX to be a bit cramped in the driver cab compared to the Sequoia. The space behind the third seat of the MDX was also not very useable while the Sequoia will comfortably fit my hockey goalie son's gear behind the third seat along with a driver,a goalie, two defense men and three forwards. That's just my two bits worth. I continue the analysis.
Cheers
Shot out to Steve & Di! Looks like a fix is in the works for the "ticking" problem, and Steve, thanks for answering my VSC/TRAC question last week. BTW, that particular Seq is STILL sitting in their service-wait area. I'm dying to know what's wrong with it...
Di. Oh loveable, affable Di. I want my Sequoia now! Took your advice on the Trooper, and still no takers!!! I'm gonna try ebay next week, but it's completely foreign to me, so a little apprehension building here. Tax refund should be here any day, will contact you further if result are positive...HAGD:) {Have A Great Day}
But not all sand is the same. Medium or coarse grained sand that is mixed with some clay or silt makes a pretty firm surface. But if it's fine, pure, fluffy, dry sand, and you sink up to your ankles when you walk on it, then watch out. You may be able to power your way through it going flat or downhill, especially if you lower your tire pressure to 15 lbs or so. But if you need to climb up that stuff, forget the Sequoia and get a dune buggy with balloon tires.
Damp sand can also be pretty firm. But if there's water welling up through it from an underground spring, then it's quicksand!
With the big tires on the Sequoia, it seems to float as well on sand as lighter vehicles with smaller tires.
There's only one way to find out for sure...
I know that I could simply cancel the order, but the Internet Sales guy has just been a pleasure dealing with. I would hate for him to lose the deal to another sales person in the dealership. They are apparently short.
The Sequoia will be delivered to the dealer around April 6th. The deal I negotiated was $2,116 below MSRP of $37,565. For those who like to see how much the dealer makes, it's $2,000 above invoice. Below are the specs and the invoice figures the dealer sent me. I don’t want to make any money on this. I just want to make sure the sales guy gets his commission.
Please e-mail me at hoffmann4@msn.com if you are interested in this vehicle, and I will establish the contact to the dealer.
Base Invoice: $27,425
Destination Charge: $480
Dual Air (AC): $456
Alloy Wheel Package (AH): $1,212
Convenience Package (CQ): $392
Roof Rack (DR): $176
Preferred Package (PM): $2,392 (Oak Leather)
Side Curtain Airbag (GY): $430
Daytime Running Lights (RL): $ 32
Regional Advertising Fee: $454
While most of the readers at this forum may be swallowing your dealer "sweet talk", I don't buy it. If all else is equal, why would any dealer have a problem with quoting a price of X over invoice?
To use your quote "it doesn't matter if you pay $3500 over invoice or $500 off MSRP". Your absolutely correct. So why not quote the $3500 over invoice?
You and I both know why...because quoting MSRP UNDER makes it more difficult for consumers to comparison shop unless you can compare exact models and options from one dealer to the next. Toyota makes it particularly difficult because of the great number of option combinations available, therefore a multitude of possible MSRPs on a given model.
With pricing of X over invoice, the consumer doesn't have to try and match up models and options to compare price, all they need to do is compare the X on a given model to determine which dealer is giving the better deal.
The smart buyers on this site need to wake up and not buy a vehicle from any dealer that won't provide a fixed price over invoice. As a car salesman, if using $3500 over invoice is no different than telling the consumer $500 under MSRP, why not try selling a few vehicles quoting $3500 over invoice and see how many sales you lose to the nearest Toyota dealer willing to sell a similar model at $3000 over invoice.
Why not simply admit that your MSRP UNDER approach is to make it more difficult for the consumer to comparison shop from one Toyota dealer to another? If you were selling at X over invoice, the market price for any vehicle would gravitate to the same level at all dealers in a given area regardless of supply & demand.
You as a salesman would then be forced to sell the advantages of your dealership to win a sale versus the virtues of the vehicle, since the value of the vehicle is delivered by the manufacturer not the dealership. Wouldn't that be a novel idea.
A few posts back there were talks about TDA (Toyota Dealers Association) fees, and marc1966 talking about Regional Advertising Fees above.
My local dealer was offering a 5% over invoice deal till the end of the month. Then he tacked on Advertising Fees, and Processing Fees, and TDA fees... and at the end of the day, I'm looking at another $1200+ on top of the 5% invoice price. Of course I walked because there's something fishy about a deal with hidden charges like that.
Glad to say you can still buy a car, with no extra ripoff gimmicks. I bought an SR5 SEQ 4x4 at $550 over invoice last Thursday from another dealer. And absolutely no gimmicky charges tacked on top, other than taxes, tags and state required document fees of $25 bucks. Done deal.
So, even if they quote you X over invoice, make sure there's no bogus fees added in when you finalize the deal.
It'd be interesting to see how many SEQ buyers here got screwed with extra charges that's not part of the X over invoice?
Just walk if a dealer try to pull that trick and before long, they'd be more than happy to unload those SEQs at invoice prices.
Again, If anyone is intersted in the truck (see post 1698), e-mail me at hoffmann4@msn.com
The catch here is that the dealer insisted that the standard industry practice was to take any discounts the gave me on the new vehicle off of the trade in value.
The conversation went something like...
"How much is my trade worth? $7000
How about you takee $1000 off MSRP? Sure, trade in value is now $6000
$2000 off MSRP? No Problemo, let's see that's MSRP minus $2000 minus the $5000 we can give you for your trade....
How about I sell my car myself and come back? Sure, but then we can sell at MSRP only."
These guys (salesman and Business Mgr at this place) honestly thought that I would buy that pitch.
This is a pretty extreme example, but my experience is that a lot of dealers use trade in values as a sort of bait and switch.
I would be interested to hear if the people who got the great deals out there were trading in vehicles and if so, do they feel they got a fair deal on their trade.
If you do any research on Competitive Decision Making and Negotiations, you'll find the tried and true practice of negotiating these two items separately works best. First get your best price on the new car, then go to work on the trade-in, with the option of selling it directly yourself.
If you don't feel comfortable with this approach, then don't expect or whine about not getting the lowest price deal. Take what you can get, and negotiate for the best net price (new car minus trade in). You can be sure that you won't get the lowest price this way, but you will get a new car and your old one will be gone. What's it worth to you?
Cliff gave a lucid, sincere explanation, but tried to soften the blow too much, and it seemed you attacked his credibility for it.
-Steve
Minski....How was the drive back? How do you like the Sequoia?..... and gripe?
ZINNY
How about it? Pretty please??
Cliffy and Dianne - is 10% too low or too high from your selling perspective?