This post has absolutely nothing to do with the Sequoia and everything to do with how life operates in the real world of car sales. Allow me to discuss a number of realities when it comes to buying a Toyota.
1. Invoice is not the same in all regions. If a person were to look at an ACTUAL invoice (the piece of paper that comes with the car which itemizes all the things we pay for), one would see a line marked "TDA". This is the advertising fee and it is regional. Northern CA is at about 2.4% of "net-net" invoice, Southern CA is much less and capped at $300. The mid west is capped at $250 and here in the East, we are uncapped at 2.1%. Since invoices vary, it is difficult to discuss them. I am more than happy to discuss how much over invoice I sell a car for, but I must first discuss what invoice actually is. I do it all the time and if you look at Edmunds pricing, you will see that they warn you about it.
2. Not every deal is the same. As a salesman, it is my job to make a profit for the dealership and for myself. I am only paid on what I sell a car for over the invoice. Nothing more or less. The managers in the store pay attention to what I am doing in a deal. If I take short cuts, don't take the proper time with a customer and pull stupid stunts, the managers will not let me sell a car cheap. I don't deserve it.
If I take my time with a customer, work with them, make sure I have sold the benefits of buying here and have covered all my bases, the managers are MUCH more likely to take a shorter deal. They are also more prone to shorter deals late in the month if we are behind in our objectives. They will take shorter deals if we have multiple units on the lot. They will take shorter deals on very slow days. They will also take shorter deals from a good salesman who is in a slump. This is a mental thing to get a good guy going again and build his confidence. Bottom line is, there are plenty of reasons to sell at different prices each day.
3. Consumers hurt themselves when they "hide" the trade. This is very inside stuff here so bear with me. When we get a "grinder" of a customer, we love it when they drop a trade at the last minute. If a customer has battered us for the last penny on a deal and the sale is well below whet we really want to sell the car for, we now get a second chance to make some money. Most dealerships will hold back by a few hundred dollars in this scenario. Lets say a customer has ground us down to invoice (or even a bit under) on a Camry. He's tied up the salesman for hours and now informs us he is trading in his 10 year old lump. Our used car manager gives us $1200 for it and we tell the customer we'll pay $800. If the customer goes for it, we pick up $400 in gross profit. If he doesn't, no big deal... we already agreed to sell a Camry for too little and we still will. We took our shot.
The customer is at a severe disadvantage here and they did it to themselves. They have expended a lot of time, energy and emotion (I'm not kidding) on the new car deal. They often don't have the will to quibble over the trade by this point.
It is far better to get both ends of the deal worked out at the same time. Here is where a consumer must be careful though. Make sure they actually give you both numbers. Some dealers do what is called the trade plus figure. If the sales work sheet says "Your trade plus $XXXX, plus tax and tags", you need to ask how much of that figure represents your trade. If they will not tell you or keep changing the sale price, walk out and find another dealership. A good dealer will tell you what they are selling the new car for and how much they will pay for the trade at the same time and not mix the two.
4. Heatwave, you claim to be a marketing VP for a Fortune 100 Company and that's great if you are. I'm sure you know your business quite well and understand costs, expenses, market conditions, consumer demands and expectations for whatever product you produce. Your view of auto sales demonstrates a genuine niavate of this industry and of me in particular. I quote invoices all the time. I also quote MSRP because MSRP is the only constant when discussing a deal. Sure there are different options that will get you to the same MSRP but different invoices, but at least you're in the right ball park.
Finally, let me say that I'd be happy to continue this discussion in private. I've got some great stuff I'd be happy to share about topics like the TDA fee, holdback, ordering procedures and such. I don't shy away from discussing any of that. None of it has a thing to do with the Sequoia though. Send me an e-mail at sclifford@kjtoyota.com if you wish.
Don't look for a manual tranny in the Sequoia. First, I'm not at all positive that it would work with the Active-Trac system. Second, the Sequoia is rated as a ULEV vehicle and you can't get as high emissions ratings with a manual.
Although I may disagree with combining the trade and the new car sale into one negotiation, I CERTAINLY appreciate you taking the time to voice your side of the story.
Can someone explain to my why this site is crawling with Toyota sales personnel? Must be a lot of "newby" consumers they expect to find. Folks, you need to wake up. These pleasant sounding sales folks have nothing to offer beyond the service benefits of their dealership and the ease or pain of closing the transaction. And these are the last things they want to talk about if they talk about them at all.
john1726: if you believe cliff gave "an honest, and accurate answer", you probably paid too much for your Toyota, or let me guess...you're a Toyota salesman.
Any approach to sell a new car other than at X over invoice is an effort to close a higher margin sale by making it more difficult for the consumer to comparison shop. Nothing wrong with that objective, its the methods that I find too slippery for my taste. (As a 23 year professional salesman, now a VP of sales and marketing, I know slippery when I read it.) The last thing a used or new car salesman wants is disclosure.
Nothing against car sales people. I regularly purchase vehicles. They know when I sit down that I expect them to make a fair profit for the value they deliver. I also inform them of my intention to compare the value of their services versus those of their competitors.
The starting point is how much they charge over invoice and then a positive discussion about the benefits of their service and ability to deliver the vehicle I am seeking. If you have done your homework, the consumer usually knows more about the car than the salesman (particularly with the available internet resources) since the salesman needs to learn about alot of vehicles and the consumer only checks out the one or two he is interested in.
In the end these nice sounding sales folks on this site have one mission: To make as high a commission on the sale of the vehicle you are shopping for as possible. So long as the consumer approaches any car transaction with this simple fact clearly in mind, they will realize the final cost of buying a new vehicle is entirely in their own hands.
I am afraid the following may be an example of a dealer creating extra charges/profit. Can someone please set the record straight for me. He says that if I buy the AH (allow wheel pkg) which includes the two hitch, that I also need to purchase (additonal $380 sticker)DH (receiver hitch/wire harness). It seems to me that the items in DH would already be included with the AH.
This site is crawling with all types, including Burger King buyers that "just want it their way." That's what makes it a forum.
Boy you must have had some interesting experiences with car sales people. I don't see the point in belittling people in their chosen profession. Besides, what's wrong with earning a living this way? Maybe you could try selling cars and dealing with the "public" for a while - now there's something that I'm not prepared to do - hoo boy!
Cliff - good feedback, especially on grinders. There are some sales situations where it pays to put the entire package on the table. I usually reserve this effort for the two finalists (dealers) that I've gotten the lowest price from on the new car, without wasting much of their time to that point. BTW, I've got grinder customers like that too (in the software business), and they don't get the lowest price either. Lowest prices are achieved for all sorts of reasons, but usually by the honest people, ready to buy, but willing to play the game a little as well. After all, it is a game.
Caveat emptor, do your homework, but have a little fun along the way too!
dforr: actually I have solid business relationships with the car salespeople I deal with and have bought multiple vehicles from them based on mutual respect. The fact that I use the same BMW salesman is also a sign that when dealt with fairly, including open disclosure, both parties benefit. However in the end, I end up with a low price and they end up with a loyal customer.
That's business. The fact that its a "game" for some is what allows a salesman to give a low price to someone like myself while another customer makes up the difference. I have never treated my hard earned income as "monopoly" money in a game.
Nothing stated should be interpreted as belittling another's profession. The BMW salesman that I have bought three vehicles (2 535i's and a 740iL) is a knowledgable professional and knows not to bother wasting either of our time when I am interesting in a new vehicle. He simply provides me the best price he can do over invoice for the services his dealership offers (ie. loaner cars, longer evening hours, Sat. service etc.)
Its probably worth noting however that car selling has more than its fair share of unscrupulous salesmen because of the high number of naive consumers that can be easily taken advantage of. My remarks have been simply to suggest that through the internet and this forum maybe there could be less naive consumers resulting in less "slippery" car salesmen.
The Toyota salesman I recently bought an Avalon from took a little longer to get the message but when he understood that the sale would only happen under a fair and balanced approach that provided for open comparisons to other dealers, a deal was eventually struck at $600 over invoice.
In the end, better informed auto comsumers will elevate the professionalism (or at least the perception) of all car sales personnel as they begin to sell the advantages of the real services their dealership has to offer, not the cars they "distribute" for a manufacturer.
The AH package means you don't need the DH option. More than likely, you just have an uninformed salesman. They can't add both options to the sticker so you wouldn't end up paying twice for the same thing. This just means that you need to keep a sharp eye on them for errors in ordering.
I'm here to keep in touch with the ticking noise resolution, and any other problems that may be discovered in the roll-out of this car.
I'm also thinking that Toyota may be ready to increase production beyond the oft-quoted 60,000 units per year, if that is even a true number. The profits on selling these vehicles probably justify building 120,000 a year, since the reported figures indicate sales of 5,000+ in Februrary.
You may find your answer in the Sequoia Solutions section of tundrasolutions.com--click on "I had an arbitration today..." The thread's about 130+ now, and started slow, but looks like we've got a fix that could turn into a TSB.
Also check the thread about VSC/TRAC problems there...Cliffy1 answered my questions, but the "sick" Sequoia I saw at my local dealer a couple of days ago is still "sick" and nobody will talk about it, since it's still technically unsold. RDR'd, but reversed. Is that possible, Steve? Can they really "un-RDR" a vehicle. How does this affect the warranty open date, etc.?
They can back out an RDR. They generally don't do this until they sell it because it counts against their inventory for allocation purposes. The warranty will start when it is RDRed again although you would loose the miles that are on it.
Toyota does have people who read this site and tundrasolutions.com. I received a call a week ago from the service director in the Denver Region about some things here. They assure me that they actually do pay attention to this.
Hey Heatwave - Why, when you own a Denali XL, are you here in the Sequoia group dissin' salesmen for being more open than 99% of others in their profession?
I think that the only reason you're here is to stir excrement, and show pity on us poor fools who were stupid enough to let a dealer make some REAL profit on a hot, high-demand vehicle. I think you think of yourself as a master-negotiator - but one who's probably a bit miffed at the fact that those negotiating skills are ineffective on a vehicle this popular.
Those of us who OWN Sequoias paid premium prices for better reliability that's documented, and some features exceeding that even of your gorgeous Denali XL - can't you accept that leave well enough alone?
Since I used the words we and us in my last post I was not hiding the fact that yes, I do sell cars. You claim to have been in sales, was it your practice to see how much money you could lose, or how much you could make? I also said that there are a lot of people who claim to be car salesmen that are nothing but sharks, but the majority of US are not. Just like I am sure that there are a few sneaky sales people in your profession but that does not mean that you are. Instead of being so negative about the sales professionals that are here, be thankful that they take their time out to give consumers additional information and explanations that can't be found on a regular website. Are they here to get more business? Of course, but belive me, they could just as well, stand outside their dealership and wait for the next customer to drive up. Some of us appreciate an educated customer and try to help as much as we can because that is the only way to get repeat and referal business. Cliff and Diane, my hats off to you two, I just wish I had the time to spend here a little bit more.
Hey Heatwave - Ready to trade in the Denali XL yet, is that why you're checking out the Sequoia? How long do you own your cars and trucks on average?
How much over invoice did you pay for the BMW's? I may be looking for one soon, and wanted to know what a really good price should be, especially given your ability to drive a bargain.
Well here I am another car salesman and yet I admit I logged on to see what people are saying about the Sequoia . I am appauled by the bashing that I took when reading some of these messages . The truth of the matter is that I(we) will sale you a car anyway you please .. Invoice + , MSRP - , whatever makes you feel at home . I am hard working , christian , family man with high ethics and good morals . Why do people insist on using ugly words to describe what I do for a living . YES there are some snakes out there , reward them by finding another sales person . Please have a little respect when labelling people that you have never met . I am a sales proffesional and I am proud of it ... If you want to now anything about a Sequoia just contact me I can probably get your questions answered . Happy Sailing
and so is Dianne....I've learned a great deal from both of them about the Sequoia and about car sales in general. And I certainly do not consider myself a naive consumer. All sales professionals aim to make money and most work on commission (and the problem with that is???????). My goal was to get my Sequoia at the best possible price in my area (which I did). I probably could have saved some money buying it elsewhere in the country and having it shipped, but I felt that I would get better service over the life of the warranty if I dealt locally. Interesting enough, our salesman told us after the deal that the reason his manager agreed to our deal was because we were local. Referrals and "neighborhood" reputation indeed play a huge role in the long term (as any sales professional should know). 2500 under MSRP was our deal, and I can't see how that number would be any different if I quoted it as XX over invoice...still the same number. Also, I don't get the hoopla about not mentioning your trade until the price is set on the car. I understand it, but don't agree. Just like Cliffy said, if you get their best price on the new car, then there's no wiggle room on the trade. I've had plenty of deals in the past where my trade-in was ridiculously high on paper; or the MSRP is shown greatly discounted, but the trade is low. To me, the only number that really matters is the difference. 1200 trouble-free wonderful miles on my Sequoia!
The SR5 badging dates back to the 70's. I don't remember the whole story but it had something to do with a sports model of the Corolla. It came with a 5 speed manual transmission instead of the old 4 speed. It ended up evolving into a trim level on our trucks that designated it as a higher trim than the base. It has now come to mean very little, other than it is not the Limited.
I just want to tell ya'll thanks today. Between the Sequoia and Avalon topics today, many of you have said some very flattering things about me. I also received 6 private e-mail messages saying the same thing. I will continue to post things here and continue to listen. I gain a tremendous amount of valuable information by keeping active here. I learn about what my customers think and that has allowed me to better tailor my sales presentation. I've changed a number of things I do and say to customers and I have the participants here to thank for helping me with that. I even sell cars to a few of you.
Ceratinly the EDMUNDS HOST can point people who want to bash/praise dealers to one (of many) forums.
IMHO, the only way a dealer earns his keep around here is delivering cars to board members at a fair price with a minimal of hassle OR providing information that is fresh and pertinate to our posted problems or buying efforts.
Yeah I think I saw that badge on some prehistoric 70's vintage Toyota. Man that thing was ugly. Dark brown interior, no steering wheel controls, clunky retractable antannae, useless wheel locks, ugly colors,.....uhhhhhh.....never mind.
Thirdsuv, what you described how dealers "earn" their keep around here, fits exactly what two of these dealers do around here. So I say, yap on!
Several months ago, cliffy1 and diane both helped me out with info, and I haven't paid them a dime for their service, yet. Looks like they may have helped you out too, along with a whole bunch of other folks.
Hey, its a Town Hall, we're allowed to say nice things if we want to. It doesn't have to be all whining or "Just the Facts, Ma'am" to be effective. Especially, when a few flamethrowers start up, a little fire brigade action helps keep things in balance.
Yeah I think I saw that badge on some prehistoric 70's vintage Toyota. Man that thing was ugly. Dark brown interior, no steering wheel controls, clunky retractable antannae, useless wheel locks, ugly colors,.....uhhhhhh.....never mind.
Nothing like a little reality to flush out all the salesman lurking on this site. Tried to share a little honest insight for consumers on dealing with the guys and gals selling cars. With the exception of the word "slippery" my remarks were balanced with a respect for the profession, if not all of their methods. Your not likely to build a "bond" with these folks beyond a professional respect that revolves around an expensive "business" transaction.
If some of you are looking for a "deeper" relationship with your salesperson it is certainly your right. If paying premium price for a good quality vehicle like the Sequoia meets your needs and expectations, than no harm is done.
If recommending to others a different approach (Factory invoice Plus instead of MSRP minus) for better negotiating a lower price on a quality vehicle is perceived as offensive, than I can only suggest that the salesmen on this site have achieved their objectives of keeping price expectations high, competition among dealers obscured and consumer negotiating skills low...in addition to their stated mission of advising readers on the virtues of the Sequoia.
BTW, in addition to the 2001 Denali XL, I also own a 1999 Platinum Edition Toyota Avalon which is what drew me to this site. If the Sequoia had a more powerful engine and higher towing capacity it would have definitely been a consideration. As it is, I tow a boat and needed the 8400lbs towing capacity of the DXL which came with 320hp, AWD and several other creature comforts I found more to my taste than the Sequoia.
To answer your questions, I keep my vehicles 3-4 years and I've never paid more than $1500 over invoice for any vehicle (including newly launched models) and trust me negotiating for a 740iL is a whole lot more difficult than negotiating for a Toyota.
In the end, all vehicles are just rubber, metal and leather and nothing to get emotionally attached to. I'd rather keep as much of my money in MY pocket to spend on my family, friends and investments versus paying a higher commission than needed to a salesman, no disrespect intended.
I promise, from now on, I will read from afar (unless responding to a direct question) enjoying the "soft" touches of the professional sales people at this site and also enjoying the posts of those that feel good about paying premium price for their new Toyota vehicle. (However, don't be surprised if I stick my nose under the tent once in awhile.)
I think you misunderstood my post (which could be easy I guess on reflection).
I never said or implied that I wasn't helped gretaly by Dianne/Cliffy. What I was TRYING to say is that the heat and smoke was rising, the flame throwers were out, the rhetoric was tired, and the whole discussion was degrading into ... "Is a car dealer a snake or saint?" Something tells me we're not going to settle the arguement.
Agreed, time to move on to other topics. Thanks for your clarification. At least you are buying a Sequoia, as compared with other busybodies that feel the need to mind our business while they are minding their own.
I just love posts that start off with "WAKE UP PEOPLE". LOL!
Plus the PT Barnum targets that get hooked with the age old marketing ploy of SPECIAL EDITION cars. I know, these things are just leather, rubber and steel. Ooh, platinum is better than gold, right? And silver and bronze are for losers. Ha, Ha, HA!
Anybody checked market prices on Suburban, er I mean Yukon Denali XLs? All of them around here are selling for below invoice, so negotiating from invoice UP doesn't sound too bright in this case. But hey, if you need to tow your house around every two weeks to a new trailer park, it's probably the car for you! As for creature comforts, that's probably the dedicated six-pack cooler up front.
LOL again!
Oh, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sequoia's got em nervous out there, otherwise, why are they all lurking in the weeds reading up on this car? I know, it only tows so much, it has its limits, its not perfect, but it is a really nice car. And I don't know of anybody posting on this site that can read that has paid MSRP ever on an SR5, however on a Ltd, its really a sellers market, so I guess we need to hire a consultant to negotiate a deal at $1500 over invoice on a Ltd. How about a challenge this weekend, maybe cliffy or dianne will cave in to your proposals?? But would you respect them in the morning if they did it?
Did I read correctly in some forum that the Sequoia got picked as a better towing vehicle compared to a Yukon or Expedition? Anybody remember seeing something like that and have a link? A boating magazine maybe?
The glass break sensor is a small microphone behind the panel under the steering wheel. It is not behind the small grid insert, that is a sensor for the A/C climate control.
The GBS is a small round black disk with a raised microphone on it. The disk has double stick tape attached to it. Mine was just hanging behind the panel. I used the tape to stick it to the duct with the mic holes opening downward.
You can test the system by arming the alarm while you are still in the vehicle. Wait 30 seconds for the indicator to begin blinking again. You can then tap the glass with a key (TAP!) or you can rattle a set of keys (safer). I had to rattle the keys only inches from the steering column for the sensor to work.
I will ask again. Does anyone have any adjustment procedure for the GBS sensitivity. I think it is a gain setting for the ECU so there has to be a procedure with the diagnostic connector or maybe it must be done with the Toyota hand-held ECU programmer.
Sidenote: Is there are tech out there wanting to sell a used hand-held programmer?? Or maybe someone wanting some consulting work?
I'm in the market for a 4x4 SR5 Sequoia. I live in Northern VA and would love to give my business to a local salesman, who has been very helpful in this forum. However, after computing how much we'd paying per month for one that is immediately available but not with the AC, AH. CQ, DR, PM, and RL, Silver/charcoal combination that we want, we need to find the best price possible with the options we're looking for. Please give me your source where you got yours so that I can compare. Thanks so much.
Bear in mind there are no standards for establishing tow ratings among the manufacturers. So Toyota may be rating the Sequoia conservatively, compared to other makes. My personal experience in being stranded, nearly killed by sudden engine stoppage in interstate traffic, etc, etc with familiar American brands vs. *great* satisfaction with the last four new Honda/Toyota vehicles I have purchased tells me the Japanese have a greater commitment to integrity. And certainly, the Sequoia is a beautiful, powerful machine I would hook 6200 pounds to in a New York minute. Wouldn't go beyond that for warranty reasons only.
I enjoy my Sequoia excessively....best vehicle I've ever owned, of the whole bunch. No ticking, no rumbling, just joy on the road.
Having said all that, there is only one little irritation...no luggage cover is available. A small matter, perhaps, unless parking on a city street with several pieces of luggage visible in the back. Bought the car in December, dealer said cover "coming in soon", even quoted price ($605.00). Multiple dealer parts departments I've contacted since are clueless. Toyota customer assistance line refuses after two inquiries to say when, or if, these gadgets will be out. So, I am going to have to pay some custom shop to fabricate my own. Just wanted Edmund's shoppers to know...
hwo much did you pay and what sequoia did you get? I live near there, and plan on ordering (preferencing ) one in a few months. Thanks for the info. ccham
THIS IS my 1st visit purchased my new toy 3-22-01 and I love it owned a 95 sr5 4 runner then 98 limited. loved them both but this is some thing special like a few of you have said the ride is awesome not like you are driving a big suv at all I have a sr5 sequoia and had the leather seats put in the purchase price and the dealer had a place where they install them they are better or just as good as the factory and I was on the road for about 41 g.'s tax and tags included I don't plan on towing anything that would void the warranty some that is not a problem ,I added my own factory gold package and fog lights limited owners eat your heart out this chestnut baby is beautiful heads are turning all over balto md. and i love it go TERP'S.
My son just bought a Sequoia and he thinks it's swell. But he had to go to several dealers and put up with southeastern toyota silliness. They think they are selling youth. They sold 100,000 units in a year and they want to play with the big makers? He had one dealer quote a lease of $900 a month for 36 months. He could buy it for less elsewhere. They must know something about expected depreciation they are not sharing. Toyota in the South is a funny business. I have relatives who buy their toyotas in the Mid-Atlantic states to save themselves from feeling like certified fools. They have saved in one case over $7000 compared to the best offer from a local dealer. I will not have a car serviced at a dealer I do not trust enough to buy from. For that reason, while I live in the South I will not own a toyota. But I do think the sequoia is a nice car and has a shorter wheel base than most full size cars. The four wheel drive is irrelevant except in snow for this car. Only a truly silly person would risk $4000 to $5000 dollars in paint and body damage from granite, gravel and pine limbs and muddy leather seat covers from a bog or "wetland".
I to was swayed by the great ammentities in the new Sequoia. After driving both the Tahoe & the Sequoia I'm going with the Tahoe. The Tahoe has a better feel to it all the way around. The Sequoia is just a prettier package. Even the salesman at the Toyota dealer who I went on the test drive with told me the Tahoe WAS the better vehicle & he may want to buy my 96 Tahoe. He told me that in the training they received on a test track Toyota put the Sequoia against the Tahoe & Expedition & the Tahoe won in handling & power. Also, the Chevy dealers are dealing on price. I've been to 3 Toyota dealers and they all act like they're special and the price is firm. They even put each other down as they're the only good place to shop and we should be honored to pay sticker (or sticker + at one dealer).
I posted previously about my experience with the 1st Toyota dealer I approached about a new Sequoia and thought that it would only be fair to post the end result as well.
The first dealer was a jerk, but he was a jerk that was close to my house, so I gave him a shot. I was very reasonable with him, but because of his attitude he lost not only the deal, but a lot of time as well. I took several test drives at this place because it was convenient for me, knowing that I would never buy from them.
The dealer I purchased from was fantastic. I contacted them (Herb Chambers in Boston) via their web site and negotiated a deal on the Sequoia over the phone. Based on the market and what other dealers were offering I felt it was a very fair deal. I met with the internet sales manager there (Bob Van Wert) and negotiated a deal on the trade within 30 minutes. Again, this was a fair deal for both of us. I sold the trade to them for less than I could have got on my own, but I didn't want the hassle. In the end what really mattered was that I was happy with both transactions and felt that I was treated fairly.
heatwave3 - I agree with your comments about negotiating from invoice. Since I was dealing with the exact same vehicle (except maybe color) at each dealership and since I knew the invoice prices in advance it made no difference to me how it was worded (Invoice + or MSRP - ). Welcome to the Sequoia board - I have enjoyed your posts on the 'I don't like SUVs, why do you' board for months now. Too bad that topic has fallen off lately.
Thanks for the chuckle this morning. Face it you don't want to pay the extra dough for a vehicle this is miles better and you're trying to convince yourself you're making the right decision. We've seen it before on this forum and I doubt you'll get much support. However, deep in your heart you know the Yuckon just plain sucks compared to a Sequoia. You wouldn't have went to 3 Toyota dealers if not.
Just remember, every time that POS Yuckon breaks you'll be muttering to yourself "I should have paid the extra money". So we bid you good luck as you go to the Yukon forum and join the folks there that blindly follow a GM loyalty that would make them still buy a Yuckon if it came equipped with a dead possum under the backseat.
Good luck buying the Tahoe. Hope you get a good one.
BTW, don't bother wasting your time trying to educate anyone on this site - they're too lazy/dumb/stupid to know any better.
And they won't wake up when told to do so by heatwave3 a few posts back. Heck they can't even smoke out car salemen on their own, it takes an outsider to flush them out! And they've been told not to have a relationship with salesmen, cause it's bad for them, given their kind and so forth.
So you see, they're hopeless over here. Maybe some day they'll wise up and buy a really good car like a Corvair - now that was the real deal. LOL - oops, I dropped my teeth again!
I am assuming you live in or near Atlanta. Even if you do not, I am confident that any of the dealers in your market area would be more then happy to provide you with the vehicle of your choice as long as there is any type of profit involved. You are correct about residual values, residuals on all SUVs are going to be reflecting more accurately their actual cash value at the end of lease instead of the inflated 64% we saw 3-4 years ago. If you feel you can save $7000 on a Seq out of the Southeast region, I understand and on behalf of the 163 dealers that do more then 25% of all the record breaking for Toyota in the nation, I apologize you had a poor experience (it was the dealer's fault not yours) and assure you that there is a misunderstanding on figures. The only way we continue to lead the nation in customer satisfaction and sales is one client at a time. I hope you let let your local dealer know how you feel so they can get you the Seq of your choice hassle-free.
Yesterday I picked up a pretty much fully loaded SR5 2WD(leather, power seat, rear AC, etc. - minus the sunroof) to drive and bring home and show the wife.
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
Yesterday I picked up a pretty much fully loaded SR5 2WD(leather, power seat, rear AC, etc. - minus the sunroof) to drive and bring home and show the wife.
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
Re: Unbelievable offer for a SR5 2wd in the Southeast, mostly loaded - you did ok getting to $2000 off. The next $500 to $1500 off MSRP will be tougher, if that's the objective, but consider taking a 4wd version off of someone's lot down there - lower demand down south for this configuration. Or look up north for a 2wd version sitting on someone's lot, where everybody wants 4wd. If final $ is the concern, order what you want/need - there are plenty of prior posts that will confirm you (the dealer) can order it exactly the way you want it, and still get ~$2000 +/- off of MSRP.
Re: Options on non-Toyota used vehicles, now you're in to a new area altogether. You could also look for a used Landcrusier or Lexus, and keep the Toyota quality you seem to like.
If you are not in a rush, I'd recommend ordering exactly what you want in options, shopping out of town, or waiting for that unbelievable offer of a new Sequoia gathering dust on someone's lot for some strange reason. In that case, you need to contact a bunch of dealers, especially around the end of each month. I had a really good offer on a lot-sitter at the end of Jan ($3500 off MSRP), but the options weren't right for me.
Comments
1. Invoice is not the same in all regions. If a person were to look at an ACTUAL invoice (the piece of paper that comes with the car which itemizes all the things we pay for), one would see a line marked "TDA". This is the advertising fee and it is regional. Northern CA is at about 2.4% of "net-net" invoice, Southern CA is much less and capped at $300. The mid west is capped at $250 and here in the East, we are uncapped at 2.1%. Since invoices vary, it is difficult to discuss them. I am more than happy to discuss how much over invoice I sell a car for, but I must first discuss what invoice actually is. I do it all the time and if you look at Edmunds pricing, you will see that they warn you about it.
2. Not every deal is the same. As a salesman, it is my job to make a profit for the dealership and for myself. I am only paid on what I sell a car for over the invoice. Nothing more or less. The managers in the store pay attention to what I am doing in a deal. If I take short cuts, don't take the proper time with a customer and pull stupid stunts, the managers will not let me sell a car cheap. I don't deserve it.
If I take my time with a customer, work with them, make sure I have sold the benefits of buying here and have covered all my bases, the managers are MUCH more likely to take a shorter deal. They are also more prone to shorter deals late in the month if we are behind in our objectives. They will take shorter deals if we have multiple units on the lot. They will take shorter deals on very slow days. They will also take shorter deals from a good salesman who is in a slump. This is a mental thing to get a good guy going again and build his confidence. Bottom line is, there are plenty of reasons to sell at different prices each day.
3. Consumers hurt themselves when they "hide" the trade. This is very inside stuff here so bear with me. When we get a "grinder" of a customer, we love it when they drop a trade at the last minute. If a customer has battered us for the last penny on a deal and the sale is well below whet we really want to sell the car for, we now get a second chance to make some money. Most dealerships will hold back by a few hundred dollars in this scenario. Lets say a customer has ground us down to invoice (or even a bit under) on a Camry. He's tied up the salesman for hours and now informs us he is trading in his 10 year old lump. Our used car manager gives us $1200 for it and we tell the customer we'll pay $800. If the customer goes for it, we pick up $400 in gross profit. If he doesn't, no big deal... we already agreed to sell a Camry for too little and we still will. We took our shot.
The customer is at a severe disadvantage here and they did it to themselves. They have expended a lot of time, energy and emotion (I'm not kidding) on the new car deal. They often don't have the will to quibble over the trade by this point.
It is far better to get both ends of the deal worked out at the same time. Here is where a consumer must be careful though. Make sure they actually give you both numbers. Some dealers do what is called the trade plus figure. If the sales work sheet says "Your trade plus $XXXX, plus tax and tags", you need to ask how much of that figure represents your trade. If they will not tell you or keep changing the sale price, walk out and find another dealership. A good dealer will tell you what they are selling the new car for and how much they will pay for the trade at the same time and not mix the two.
4. Heatwave, you claim to be a marketing VP for a Fortune 100 Company and that's great if you are. I'm sure you know your business quite well and understand costs, expenses, market conditions, consumer demands and expectations for whatever product you produce. Your view of auto sales demonstrates a genuine niavate of this industry and of me in particular. I quote invoices all the time. I also quote MSRP because MSRP is the only constant when discussing a deal. Sure there are different options that will get you to the same MSRP but different invoices, but at least you're in the right ball park.
Finally, let me say that I'd be happy to continue this discussion in private. I've got some great stuff I'd be happy to share about topics like the TDA fee, holdback, ordering procedures and such. I don't shy away from discussing any of that. None of it has a thing to do with the Sequoia though. Send me an e-mail at sclifford@kjtoyota.com if you wish.
Back to the topic.
kind regards,
zinny
john1726: if you believe cliff gave "an honest, and accurate answer", you probably paid too much for your Toyota, or let me guess...you're a Toyota salesman.
Any approach to sell a new car other than at X over invoice is an effort to close a higher margin sale by making it more difficult for the consumer to comparison shop. Nothing wrong with that objective, its the methods that I find too slippery for my taste. (As a 23 year professional salesman, now a VP of sales and marketing, I know slippery when I read it.) The last thing a used or new car salesman wants is disclosure.
Nothing against car sales people. I regularly purchase vehicles. They know when I sit down that I expect them to make a fair profit for the value they deliver. I also inform them of my intention to compare the value of their services versus those of their competitors.
The starting point is how much they charge over invoice and then a positive discussion about the benefits of their service and ability to deliver the vehicle I am seeking. If you have done your homework, the consumer usually knows more about the car than the salesman (particularly with the available internet resources) since the salesman needs to learn about alot of vehicles and the consumer only checks out the one or two he is interested in.
In the end these nice sounding sales folks on this site have one mission: To make as high a commission on the sale of the vehicle you are shopping for as possible. So long as the consumer approaches any car transaction with this simple fact clearly in mind, they will realize the final cost of buying a new vehicle is entirely in their own hands.
???
Boy you must have had some interesting experiences with car sales people. I don't see the point in belittling people in their chosen profession. Besides, what's wrong with earning a living this way? Maybe you could try selling cars and dealing with the "public" for a while - now there's something that I'm not prepared to do - hoo boy!
Cliff - good feedback, especially on grinders. There are some sales situations where it pays to put the entire package on the table. I usually reserve this effort for the two finalists (dealers) that I've gotten the lowest price from on the new car, without wasting much of their time to that point. BTW, I've got grinder customers like that too (in the software business), and they don't get the lowest price either. Lowest prices are achieved for all sorts of reasons, but usually by the honest people, ready to buy, but willing to play the game a little as well. After all, it is a game.
Caveat emptor, do your homework, but have a little fun along the way too!
That's business. The fact that its a "game" for some is what allows a salesman to give a low price to someone like myself while another customer makes up the difference. I have never treated my hard earned income as "monopoly" money in a game.
Nothing stated should be interpreted as belittling another's profession. The BMW salesman that I have bought three vehicles (2 535i's and a 740iL) is a knowledgable professional and knows not to bother wasting either of our time when I am interesting in a new vehicle. He simply provides me the best price he can do over invoice for the services his dealership offers (ie. loaner cars, longer evening hours, Sat. service etc.)
Its probably worth noting however that car selling has more than its fair share of unscrupulous salesmen because of the high number of naive consumers that can be easily taken advantage of. My remarks have been simply to suggest that through the internet and this forum maybe there could be less naive consumers resulting in less "slippery" car salesmen.
The Toyota salesman I recently bought an Avalon from took a little longer to get the message but when he understood that the sale would only happen under a fair and balanced approach that provided for open comparisons to other dealers, a deal was eventually struck at $600 over invoice.
In the end, better informed auto comsumers will elevate the professionalism (or at least the perception) of all car sales personnel as they begin to sell the advantages of the real services their dealership has to offer, not the cars they "distribute" for a manufacturer.
I'm also thinking that Toyota may be ready to increase production beyond the oft-quoted 60,000 units per year, if that is even a true number. The profits on selling these vehicles probably justify building 120,000 a year, since the reported figures indicate sales of 5,000+ in Februrary.
Also check the thread about VSC/TRAC problems there...Cliffy1 answered my questions, but the "sick" Sequoia I saw at my local dealer a couple of days ago is still "sick" and nobody will talk about it, since it's still technically unsold. RDR'd, but reversed. Is that possible, Steve? Can they really "un-RDR" a vehicle. How does this affect the warranty open date, etc.?
I think that the only reason you're here is to stir excrement, and show pity on us poor fools who were stupid enough to let a dealer make some REAL profit on a hot, high-demand vehicle. I think you think of yourself as a master-negotiator - but one who's probably a bit miffed at the fact that those negotiating skills are ineffective on a vehicle this popular.
Those of us who OWN Sequoias paid premium prices for better reliability that's documented, and some features exceeding that even of your gorgeous Denali XL - can't you accept that leave well enough alone?
Are they here to get more business? Of course, but belive me, they could just as well, stand outside their dealership and wait for the next customer to drive up. Some of us appreciate an educated customer and try to help as much as we can because that is the only way to get repeat and referal business. Cliff and Diane, my hats off to you two, I just wish I had the time to spend here a little bit more.
zinny
How much over invoice did you pay for the BMW's? I may be looking for one soon, and wanted to know what a really good price should be, especially given your ability to drive a bargain.
Thanks
Again, thanks. You all have made my day.
IMHO, the only way a dealer earns his keep around here is delivering cars to board members at a fair price with a minimal of hassle OR providing information that is fresh and pertinate to our posted problems or buying efforts.
prehistoric 70's vintage Toyota. Man that thing was ugly. Dark brown interior, no steering wheel controls, clunky retractable antannae, useless wheel locks, ugly colors,.....uhhhhhh.....never mind.
Thirdsuv, what you described how dealers "earn" their keep around here, fits exactly what two of these dealers do around here. So I say, yap on!
Several months ago, cliffy1 and diane both helped me out with info, and I haven't paid them a dime for their service, yet. Looks like they may have helped you out too, along with a whole bunch of other folks.
Hey, its a Town Hall, we're allowed to say nice things if we want to. It doesn't have to be all whining or "Just the Facts, Ma'am" to be effective. Especially, when a few flamethrowers start up, a little fire brigade action helps keep things in balance.
Steve
Host
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prehistoric 70's vintage Toyota. Man that thing was ugly. Dark brown interior, no steering wheel controls, clunky retractable antannae, useless wheel locks, ugly colors,.....uhhhhhh.....never mind.
If some of you are looking for a "deeper" relationship with your salesperson it is certainly your right. If paying premium price for a good quality vehicle like the Sequoia meets your needs and expectations, than no harm is done.
If recommending to others a different approach (Factory invoice Plus instead of MSRP minus) for better negotiating a lower price on a quality vehicle is perceived as offensive, than I can only suggest that the salesmen on this site have achieved their objectives of keeping price expectations high, competition among dealers obscured and consumer negotiating skills low...in addition to their stated mission of advising readers on the virtues of the Sequoia.
BTW, in addition to the 2001 Denali XL, I also own a 1999 Platinum Edition Toyota Avalon which is what drew me to this site. If the Sequoia had a more powerful engine and higher towing capacity it would have definitely been a consideration. As it is, I tow a boat and needed the 8400lbs towing capacity of the DXL which came with 320hp, AWD and several other creature comforts I found more to my taste than the Sequoia.
To answer your questions, I keep my vehicles 3-4 years and I've never paid more than $1500 over invoice for any vehicle (including newly launched models) and trust me negotiating for a 740iL is a whole lot more difficult than negotiating for a Toyota.
In the end, all vehicles are just rubber, metal and leather and nothing to get emotionally attached to. I'd rather keep as much of my money in MY pocket to spend on my family, friends and investments versus paying a higher commission than needed to a salesman, no disrespect intended.
I promise, from now on, I will read from afar (unless responding to a direct question) enjoying the "soft" touches of the professional sales people at this site and also enjoying the posts of those that feel good about paying premium price for their new Toyota vehicle. (However, don't be surprised if I stick my nose under the tent once in awhile.)
easy I guess on reflection).
I never said or implied that I wasn't helped gretaly by Dianne/Cliffy. What I was TRYING to say is that the heat and smoke was rising, the flame throwers were out, the rhetoric was tired, and the whole discussion was degrading into ... "Is a car dealer a snake or saint?"
Something tells me we're not going to settle the arguement.
All I was saying was....next topic please.
I just love posts that start off with "WAKE UP PEOPLE". LOL!
Plus the PT Barnum targets that get hooked with the age old marketing ploy of SPECIAL EDITION cars. I know, these things are just leather, rubber and steel. Ooh, platinum is better than gold, right? And silver and bronze are for losers. Ha, Ha, HA!
Anybody checked market prices on Suburban, er I mean Yukon Denali XLs? All of them around here are selling for below invoice, so negotiating from invoice UP doesn't sound too bright in this case. But hey, if you need to tow your house around every two weeks to a new trailer park, it's probably the car for you! As for creature comforts, that's probably the dedicated six-pack cooler up front.
LOL again!
Oh, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sequoia's got em nervous out there, otherwise, why are they all lurking in the weeds reading up on this car? I know, it only tows so much, it has its limits, its not perfect, but it is a really nice car. And I don't know of anybody posting on this site that can read that has paid MSRP ever on an SR5, however on a Ltd, its really a sellers market, so I guess we need to hire a consultant to negotiate a deal at $1500 over invoice on a Ltd. How about a challenge this weekend, maybe cliffy or dianne will cave in to your proposals?? But would you respect them in the morning if they did it?
LOL!!
The glass break sensor is a small microphone behind the panel under the steering wheel. It is not behind the small grid insert, that is a sensor for the A/C climate control.
The GBS is a small round black disk with a raised microphone on it. The disk has double stick tape attached to it. Mine was just hanging behind the panel. I used the tape to stick it to the duct with the mic holes opening downward.
You can test the system by arming the alarm while you are still in the vehicle. Wait 30 seconds for the indicator to begin blinking again. You can then tap the glass with a key (TAP!) or you can rattle a set of keys (safer). I had to rattle the keys only inches from the steering column for the sensor to work.
I will ask again. Does anyone have any adjustment procedure for the GBS sensitivity. I think it is a gain setting for the ECU so there has to be a procedure with the diagnostic connector or maybe it must be done with the Toyota hand-held ECU programmer.
Sidenote: Is there are tech out there wanting to sell a used hand-held programmer?? Or maybe someone wanting some consulting work?
zinny
I enjoy my Sequoia excessively....best vehicle I've ever owned, of the whole bunch. No ticking, no rumbling, just joy on the road.
Having said all that, there is only one little irritation...no luggage cover is available. A small matter, perhaps, unless parking on a city street with several pieces of luggage visible in the back. Bought the car in December, dealer said cover "coming in soon", even quoted price ($605.00). Multiple dealer parts departments I've contacted since are clueless. Toyota customer assistance line refuses after two inquiries to say when, or if, these gadgets will be out. So, I am going to have to pay some custom shop to fabricate my own. Just wanted Edmund's shoppers to know...
I said I would give you the dealer information and here it is....
Berlin City Toyota in Gorham, NH.
http://www.berlincity.com
Ask for Paul Bedard.
ccham
But I do think the sequoia is a nice car and has a shorter wheel base than most full size cars. The four wheel drive is irrelevant except in snow for this car. Only a truly silly person would risk $4000 to $5000 dollars in paint and body damage from granite, gravel and pine limbs and muddy leather seat covers from a bog or "wetland".
Also, the Chevy dealers are dealing on price. I've been to 3 Toyota dealers and they all act like they're special and the price is firm. They even put each other down as they're the only good place to shop and we should be honored to pay sticker (or sticker + at one dealer).
I posted previously about my experience with the 1st Toyota dealer I approached about a new Sequoia and thought that it would only be fair to post the end result as well.
The first dealer was a jerk, but he was a jerk that was close to my house, so I gave him a shot. I was very reasonable with him, but because of his attitude he lost not only the deal, but a lot of time as well. I took several test drives at this place because it was convenient for me, knowing that I would never buy from them.
The dealer I purchased from was fantastic. I contacted them (Herb Chambers in Boston) via their web site and negotiated a deal on the Sequoia over the phone. Based on the market and what other dealers were offering I felt it was a very fair deal. I met with the internet sales manager there (Bob Van Wert) and negotiated a deal on the trade within 30 minutes. Again, this was a fair deal for both of us. I sold the trade to them for less than I could have got on my own, but I didn't want the hassle.
In the end what really mattered was that I was happy with both transactions and felt that I was treated fairly.
heatwave3 - I agree with your comments about negotiating from invoice. Since I was dealing with the exact same vehicle (except maybe color) at each dealership and since I knew the invoice prices in advance it made no difference to me how it was worded (Invoice + or MSRP - ). Welcome to the Sequoia board - I have enjoyed your posts on the 'I don't like SUVs, why do you' board for months now. Too bad that topic has fallen off lately.
Regards,
zinny
I doubt you'll get much support. However, deep in your heart you know the Yuckon just plain sucks compared to a Sequoia. You wouldn't have went to 3 Toyota dealers if not.
Just remember, every time that POS Yuckon breaks you'll be muttering to yourself "I should have paid the extra money". So we bid you good luck as you go to the Yukon forum and join the folks there that blindly follow a GM loyalty that would
make them still buy a Yuckon if it came equipped with a dead possum under the backseat.
Cheers
BTW, don't bother wasting your time trying to educate anyone on this site - they're too lazy/dumb/stupid to know any better.
And they won't wake up when told to do so by heatwave3 a few posts back. Heck they can't even smoke out car salemen on their own, it takes an outsider to flush them out! And they've been told not to have a relationship with salesmen, cause it's bad for them, given their kind and so forth.
So you see, they're hopeless over here. Maybe some day they'll wise up and buy a really good car like a Corvair - now that was the real deal. LOL - oops, I dropped my teeth again!
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
I have recently test driven a similarly equipped yukon and feel like the Seq. is all round a better vehicle. I love the performance of the smaller Seq. engine - it is very smooth, has excellent acceleration - I found the yukon to be a bit sluggish.
It also drives "smaller" than the yukon IMO and of course the fit and finish seemed better.
The Seq. sticker was $38,700. Yeah, I live in the southeast (charleston,sc) and was a bit confused when it came time to break down this invoice for comparison purposes.
the bottom line is the best price they would give me was about $2,000 off their MSRP.
My problem is that my wife and I already have primary vehicles and we are trying to replace a 98 pathfinder that we use to tow the jet ski and go on the road for football games. We've had the vehicle for nearly three yrs and have 20,000 miles on it. The pathfinder has been a great vehicle, not one single problem, but it just is not quite big enough or comfortable enough to bring on the road. My wife drives an older mercedes 380 sl and I drive a company-paid-for sedan.
Had the dealer given me an unbelievable deal I may have jumped at it but I'll continue to drive other models and see what I do. My friend at the caddy dealer has a used escalade coming off a lease with about 35,000 miles and I might look at it, or I may opt for a used tahoe,yukon or suburbun for around $25,000.
In the end I may end up right back with the Sequoia but hope the prices come down alittle. If anyone has had any experience with the 2000 escalade or thinks they have a better idea for me to consider based on my situation I would love to hear from you.
BTW, when I returned the Seq. this mornin it was rainin really bad, bot the vehicle made you feel like the king of the road in the downpour - very impressive.
zinny
Re: Options on non-Toyota used vehicles, now you're in to a new area altogether. You could also look for a used Landcrusier or Lexus, and keep the Toyota quality you seem to like.
If you are not in a rush, I'd recommend ordering exactly what you want in options, shopping out of town, or waiting for that unbelievable offer of a new Sequoia gathering dust on someone's lot for some strange reason. In that case, you need to contact a bunch of dealers, especially around the end of each month. I had a really good offer on a lot-sitter at the end of Jan ($3500 off MSRP), but the options weren't right for me.
Happy hunting!