Well, I guess I never thought about it much before, but I figured if the dealer said the car was "Brand <X> Certified" that the car had already met the requirements and, presumably, been certified by the manufacturer of Brand X.
Sounds like common practice is NOT to certify the vehicles up front, as I feel should be done, but rather to do so after the sale.
Hearing about this particular Saab with below-certified tires makes me think that buyers should be doing their own inspections to make sure the vehicle meets all the certification criteria. But the point of these CPO programs, and I see many of them marketed as such, is to provide peace of mind for the buyer - 'you don't need to worry because we've already done a 10,000 point inspection on every CPO brand X vehicle and we back it with a blah blah blah warranty.'
Personally, I would be reluctant to pay the premium demanded for a CPO vs. non-CPO used vehicle. Now, my impression of CPO programs has plunged even further.
Overall, in my experience I haven't seen enough evidence at new dealers' used car lots to convince me that any meaningful reconditioning has been done to these vehicles. Now I'm left wondering the same thing about these supposedly pristine CPO vehicles.
Why incur the extra cost, spend the money, only to have a unit sit for 30-45 days and shipped off to auction? The dealer loses.
Also, price negotiations may call for dropping the additional money - someone wants the car CHEAP and is not willing to cover the extra money - the dealer loses.
Many people AREN'T concerned with a manufacturer certification - if the dealer would have spent the money, the dealer loses.
Remember, folks, these are business decisions, not an attempt to make all of the used car stickers match. If a business spends money foolishly, the business will fail.
Absolutely true. If I have a customer who is buying an 03 or 04 Deville they may trade every 2-3 years so certification is irrelevant. Or some may like the certified warranty, but they would rather have an extra $1000 off.
My dealership has Caddys and Volvos. They have similar CPO programs. We do everything that needs to be done to certify it except turn it in and pay for it. So even if you don't get it "certified", it still has had all the inspections and reconditioning. Every dealer is different. Make sure everything is the way it's supposed to be before buying
From the customer point of view, this cheapens the CPO label. How do I know if it really meets all the criteria, even if it says so? Taking the dealer's word for something isn't always a safe bet.
By brand, what percentage do the CPO 'cerfitication' after the sale? All of them? Do all brands implement this essentially the same way?
doesn't mean anything until the "label" is applied...
Many times, the basic shop visit is done, and if the car sells as a certified vehicle, it goes back into the shop for the rest of the checkup and parts replacements.
Depends on what "certified" means. I don't know of anyone who "buys" certification pre-sale...that would be foolish. As Drift said if you wholesale it, you'd lose it. But as far as getting the vehicle ready (inspection, reconditioning,etc.), at my dealer we have that done when we get the vehicle. After it's sold the paperwork is done & warranty is in effect.
You guys are making the key points about CPO. For the most part, the "certified" part is the extended warranty, and that doesn't get purchased until the deal is done. The original poster of the SAAB story (I still love that line) was focused on the other component, the various inspections/improvements that are part of the deal.
IMO, the 121 point inspection and reconditioning should be done to any used car, before it goes to retail road. Maybe the CPO is a little more stringent (ie when to replace the tires), but I think, if they are advertising them as CPO cars (and dealers do), that stuff better be done first.
Not being cynical, but what guarantee is there that the dealer will take the car back into the shop and spend time/money doing things to it, after a deal is signed? I understand that they will wait to buy the warranty, but are they going to spend the 1-2 hours fo shop time after the fact, if they are willing to put a car with shot tires on the front row?
I'm thinking of buying a 2004 CPO Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. Relatively low mileage (15,254). Carfax gave it their "buy back" gaurantee. The "one" previous owner was a major rental company. Was wondering if anyone had any advice regarding CPO's that were rental cars. Thanks.
Just another used car, so the same rules apply. Make sure it is a good price, and have it looked over by a competant mechanic. The CPO will give you nice warranty protection.
No deductible with Cadillac's Certified Pre Owned Program, and my CTS didn't have a scratch on it or even any scuff marks on the inside. They even went and found the slip cover for the manuals and attached a front license plate holder for me. I saw the big check list and laughed to myself, but I had to admit the car shows no signs of any wear and nothing is wrong with it. I wonder how long that will last???
Quote" A dealer can advertise a vehicle in any manner they want, but a "certified" vehicle isn't certified until the dealer notifies the manufacturer that it's sold and the "certification" and accompanying warranties go into effect."
Not correct at least not for Cadillac. I looked up amlost 20 CTS in GMs dealerworld system - actually the sales mgr printed them out for me. and all the "certified" ones had the CPO 6 yr / 100 mile listed right in the applicable warranties section" of the summaries.
Except for the one I bought of course, because they had just sent it in to GM. So I'll be sure to hound the sales mgr to verify my car's status every week.
You can also "de-certify" a car, it'll save you 1,000 in Cadillac's case, but why bother???
I can't speak for other makes, except that most GMs are similar in that they can be "de-certified"
Edmunds has a nice section on CPO - take a look at it if you want info on a particular make.
....... The word "Certified" really means nothing ..
It's the inspection, the warranty and the "punching" of the card with the manufacturer for the CPO that makes it really "certified" ...
And depending on the vehicle, it can cost anywhere from $600 to $2,000+ depending on the work, parts and the labor ..... and yes, all vehicles: Bimmers, Honda's, Benz's, Chevy's, Chrysler, etc can be "de-certified" - it's done everyday .. especially if the dealer sends the vehicle off to the auction, he calls back the CPO, but he still incurs any of the parts and labor charges - thats why import dealers want to be waaay back of book at trade time .........
Depending on the vehicle, the miles and the how long your going to keep it, sometimes your better off negotiating the CPO "out" of the deal .. why pay $1,500 for something you won't use.?
"Also, know those Jeeps are VERY SOFT in the market right now"
Not in MI they ain't... 4x4 anythings bring good money all year long. The Cherokee isn't as strong as a 95-02 4Runner, but they're doing fine AFAIK. Of course, in your neck of the woods, I wouldn't know...
That's right, To keep from being bitten on an eventual wholesale car, they might only identify problems and not correct them until a car is sold. I do remember seeing a CTS that showed up as CPO in the GM dealerworld summary, but its "check engine" light was on when we test drove it. We didn't buy that car (and it's still on the lot).
...... Nope, your under the influence or under the wrong impression, or both .....
The warranty isn't paid for until the vehicle is sold and the paperwork is punched with the vin# and the owners info ...
Stop and think about it .. dealer takes in a 03 330i with 25k, it needs brakes, rubber, wipers, battery, a this and a that, then it's easy for a Bimmer dealer to drop $800/$900 just for the parts and labor, then drop another $1,200ish for the warranty and the whole time, the dealer is paying floorplan for the next 40/90 days ... now in some occasions they will leave them certified and run them thru the Bimmer lanes, then when they run the no-sales in the next 2 hours or the next day they "de-certify" them depending on the dealer ....
As yes, you can negotiate the CPO out of the deal ..............
But, BMWs once sold as CPO, they are CPO for life.. even if traded in later to MOMANDPOP used cars..
As with the original warranty and maintenance, the warranty goes with the car, not the buyer..
I only point this out, because others have said that only "XYZ" dealer can sell a certified "XYZ" car.. and that is true for many makes.. but, it is entirely possible for "ABC" dealer to have a CPO BMW on his lot... One thing that makes this possible is that the BMW CPO warranty uses the original in-service date... as opposed to Lexus, for example.. that runs for three years from the date of CPO sale.
I believe that they key here is *once sold as CPO*. Other makes' CPO warrantee follows the cars once the warrantee is put into effect.
This is certainly true of the Saab I bought. In fact, the indy dealer I bought the car from didn't even know it was CPO until we went through the glove box and found the CPO certificate. Called up Saab to double-check, and sure enough, I have 15 mo. of the remaining CPO warrantee. The previous owner had bought the car used, probably off lease, and had it certified.
The *original* certification can only be done by a dealer of that make, but if you happen to buy a used car that has already been certified, the warrantee will transfer for many cars.
i wonder if most people like myself believe that a certified car is a car that's been inspected and determined to be a cut-above the other used vehicles one might purchase used, specially on the dealers lot. now i understand the increased cost is essentially for a warranty one would be paying for anyway - not for a vehicle that's passed particular inspection / condition hurdles before a buyer even looks at it.
yikes. so dealers and manufacturers get to use this "certified" term rather advantageously.
now i realise that some programs may be different, but...
so to the point of the hosts in the subject-line: why isn't Edmunds bringing this issue up (front and center) in the "Tips and Advice" or "Certified Cars" area of this site so people are clearly warned of this fact????
Actually, look at the main page, and on the left, 2nd row of boxes down...if i'm not mistaken, the link for the Certified area of the site has verbage to the effect: CERTIFIED "factory inspected".
OK. maybe I'm crazy, but aren't all vehicles "factory inspected" on the date they are manufactured?
wow - what can be done about that? Edmunds (my perspective) is an accessory to continuing this mis-representation and thus, doing some nieve visitors / shoppers a dis-service by using this phrase "factory inspected" and not clearly indicating what constitutes standard operating procedure in the industry.
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I don't think CPO cars are supposed to be a "cut above", but rather meet a certainly minimum standard, based on the 117 pt. (or whatever) checklist. So fresh tires/brakes, wiper blades, etc., plus supposedly never wrecked.
basically a good used car that has been inspected/serviced/detailed before it was put out n the lot, which IMO all used cars at a dealer should be, plus an extended warranty from the manufacturer.
Nothing magical about CPO. You should be able to find a car just as nice non-CPO (maybe do your own service), and add the warranty if you want. It just becomes a cost/benefit analysis to you.
IIRC, the real reason behind the CPO programs was to give peace of mind to consumers looking at relatively expensive brand cars (like a BMW), where they couldn't afford new but still wanted warranty protction, etc. Plus it let dealers charge more jingle.
Agreed.. they should be in good condition, and have an extended warranty.. that is about it..
But, never wrecked? Unfortunately, that is not part of it.. It should be, but isn't. There may be some minimum standard as far as body damage or frame work, etc... But, your CPO car may indeed have been in an accident.. and have a lot of paint work.
Depends on the defination of "wrecked". I agree, a car that has been in a bad accident shouldn't be certified even though it's properly repaired.
People always ask me..." Has this car EVER been in an accident?"
My answer..." Probably".
Then I go on to tell them that we check for signs of major repair and dump those cars. I also tell them that it's entirely possible that at some point in that car's life, it's been in a body shop for something or the other.
Click on the Mechanical and Appearence links for more information.
isellhondas, does this mean that it's possible that a Honda "certified vehicle" (a misnomer based on what you guys have been discussing...perhaps instead "a candidate vehicle for certification") *could* have been in an accident, had repairs, and still be asking a premium price?
perhaps a potential shopper should
a). be looking at the vin decals on all the major parts like the hood and fenders and doors and truck, etc to verify they match. (probably good to do no matter if certified or private party).
b). perform a CarFax check of vehicle history.
c). have it independantly inspected.
sound advice for a potential buyer, or would that bother the salesman?
I agree completely... You should treat it like any other used car..
According to the link you provided.. the only thing that definitely disqualifies it:
1) "lemon".. I assume this means a manufacturer buyback car that has had the title stamped.
2) Salvage title
3) VIN plates on door jambs, dash and engine compartment not matching (notice it says nothing about body panels).
CPO cars SHOULD be better than the average run-of-the-mill used car... But, a lot depends on the selling dealer.. Just like with any used car purchase..
The only thing you can be sure of, without doing the due diligence, is the extended warranty..
A car can get in "an accident" and be as good as new. Heck, three years ago, some jerk backed into my Civic in a parking lot. No, he/she didn't leave a note. It wasn't a big deal at all but with today's costs of fixing things, it came to 1200.00.
I took it to a quality shop and it looked fine.
1. Has it been in "an accident"? well, yeah.
2. Is it a lesser car now? No.
That's why I say "probably" when people ask. I have no way of knowing since I wasn't with the car it's entire life.
you bring up a good point about carfax; i was reading a post by a person who claimed his car was wrecked, and he kept checking carfax, and nothing showed. go figure.
my question to you: would it be very out of line for a potential CPO customer to ask the dealership to report out on all work done on the vehicle as reported in the manufacturer's tracking system, in your case Honda's for a Honda CPO vehicle?
We disclose eveything we know. We go over our technician's report line by line on all used cars not just the certified ones. We make them sign the reports when they buy the cars. If there is a slight oil leak that amounts to nothing, they will know about it.
We might not fix every insignificant problem but we tell about what we see.
And, sometimes, people get scared away by this and that's fine too.
There are people who should NOT buy used cars. They are too suspecious and worry too much about what might be wrong.
That may be true.. but, it is worth less in the market, than a comparable car that has not had the body work..
It might not be fair, but that is a fact.. It is easy to overlook from a sales perspective.. But, to the buyer, it matters, because it will cost them money on re-sale..
Granted, if you are buying a five-year-old Civic, by the time you sell it, not that important.. But, change that to an '03 BMW, and that $1200 oopsie will drop the price by a good $2K-$3K.
Out of line or not, I bugged the he11 out of the user car sales mgr at Ed Morse in Tampa FL about my last 2 cars that I bought there, and he was real cool about it. He showed me every item that he had done when he took # 1 in as a trade (that would be my 2000 Eldorado) and we went over all their work for the past 4 years (they had sold it as new and had a lot of records on the car). He even replaced the 3rd party battery with a NEW ACDELCO battery. I did the same thing on #2 (my 2005 CTS). He was willing to take time, because he knew that if I knew (that he knew that i knew that he knew .....) that the car had been serviced and what type of service it got and / or needed that I would be more comfortable with buying it. # 1 is out of warranty and I REFUSED a 3rd party extended "warranty" (the "warranty" would have been of highest value as an alternate toilet paper roll), so I wanted to be sure that I wasn't getting a clunker. #2 is a Cadillac CPO with 92,000 miles left on the cadillac 100,000 mile warranty, so I'm not too concerned about that one either.
Yes, to a point it will devalue a car but not in the case of my Civic it didn't. Trust me, you would have ne ver known about it and even an experienced car guy like Terry would have had trouble spotting it if they could at all.
And, yes, if it were a BMW or a Benz the effects would have been greater although that 2-3000 number would have been a stretch. The damage was nothing and the body shop does first class work.
I went and looked at a Honda certified used Accord which had only 28054 miles on it. (ie., within the original manufacturer's warranty)However, I was surprised to see an As-Is buyer's guide sticker on it. Is this normal? I would have thought the cerfified vehicle would have the extended warranty displayed on the sticker. When I asked the salesperson about it, he said that is how all certified cars are displayed to show that the original warranty has expired. Needless to say, I beat a hasty retreat from the dealership. Your comments on this?
The Accord was a 2002 model. So the basic warranty had expired. I still do not understand why they dont show the extended warranty that comes with the Honda certification.
... **I beat a hasty retreat from the dealership. Your comments on this?** ..
No need to panic, it's a federal form and it must be displayed .. any warranties over and above the original factory warranty will supersede it .. next time, just have the dealer show the paperwork before you run ..
..... 02.? .. Vehicle could have easily been sold in the fall of 01 ... it's the in service date and/or the sold date, or whenever they punched the ticket ...
Do you mean through BMW? You should try getting financing first through your own bank or credit union - you may find that the rate is better, and if not, at least you'll have a back-up. Try posting your question in our Rebates, Incentives, APRs - Questions & Comments discussion to see if anyone knows about special rates offered on BMW vehicles.
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Hi All, I've read your posts and I'm enlightened by the January discussion. I hope you're still out there! I purchased a certified 2002 Accord EX on March 21, 2005 from a local dealership. Two weeks later, the engine light came on. I'm told that I need a new transmission. They're supposed to put the new transmission in tomorrow. One week later, the brakes were making a horrible "dragging" sound. That problem has yet to be diagnosed. Did I mention that the side airbag light comes on from time to time and the service manager tells me that Hondas do that because of the weight that is placed in the passenger seat? Service manager observed that I carry a heavy bag for work. I couldn't be more aggravated by this situation.
I don't fear used cars. I bought my first Accord as a grad student with 90K miles, and I kept it for 7 years (beyond 200K). I'm now wishing that I'd kept my old car for longer. At least I knew what was wrong with it, and since it wasn't certified, I didn't have any expectations for it.
This "new" car was supposed to be the best that I could have asked for in a used Honda. Now, I'm back and forth for new parts and maintenance that should have been done well before now. Did I mention that it was questionable as to whether or not they would provide me with a car to drive? Of course, they're paying for repairs because it's "certified", but the truth is that I simply don't trust Honda's certification program... at least not at this dealership. I'm considering calling the 1800-Honda number. I did better as a "kid" purchasing a car from someone other random person on the street--no pretense, no certification, no dealership.
1) A bad transmission can't be diagnosed before it fails.. A tranny swap is very easy (in a relative sense). They are factory-rebuilt and the entire unit is swapped out. We had this done on an '01 Accord at 18K with no further problems before we traded the car with 54K miles.
2) The side airbag light is functioning properly.. It is a safety feature, so that one could put a child seat in the front and not have to worry about the airbag going off. Put your bag on the floor if it really bothers you.
3) The brakes... if they are worn, then that should have been caught during the inspection.. but, again, you can't predict failure of a mechanical part.
4) The certification process is okay, but what you are really buying is an extended warranty... That part of it seems to be working out for you.
I know mechanical breakdowns are no fun, but they can happen with any car.. Be glad you have a warranty.
I'm considering the purchase of a 2001 Forester from a Suzuki dealership in Canada. Everything looked good when I went to test drive it. The only thing that concerned me a little was the bit of smoke that came out after it was started. I'm pretty sure that it was a cold start (as I went first thing in the morning) and I asked the dealer to step on the gas a few times while I checked. After warming up, it seemed to run smokeless. That said, is the motor checked thoroughly for transmissions fluid leaks, excess fuel and burning oil for the CPO certification process?
I'm not sure how it's normally done, but Suzuki in Canada will go through the certification process when you decide to purchase a vehicle (and give them a $500 deposit). This, to me, seems a little odd.
The other odd thing is that there was no mention of a warrantee with CPO, although the dealer did say that he would encourage anyone to get extended warrantee if there was nothing left on the original.
Comments
Sounds like common practice is NOT to certify the vehicles up front, as I feel should be done, but rather to do so after the sale.
Hearing about this particular Saab with below-certified tires makes me think that buyers should be doing their own inspections to make sure the vehicle meets all the certification criteria. But the point of these CPO programs, and I see many of them marketed as such, is to provide peace of mind for the buyer - 'you don't need to worry because we've already done a 10,000 point inspection on every CPO brand X vehicle and we back it with a blah blah blah warranty.'
Personally, I would be reluctant to pay the premium demanded for a CPO vs. non-CPO used vehicle. Now, my impression of CPO programs has plunged even further.
Overall, in my experience I haven't seen enough evidence at new dealers' used car lots to convince me that any meaningful reconditioning has been done to these vehicles. Now I'm left wondering the same thing about these supposedly pristine CPO vehicles.
Also, price negotiations may call for dropping the additional money - someone wants the car CHEAP and is not willing to cover the extra money - the dealer loses.
Many people AREN'T concerned with a manufacturer certification - if the dealer would have spent the money, the dealer loses.
Remember, folks, these are business decisions, not an attempt to make all of the used car stickers match. If a business spends money foolishly, the business will fail.
My dealership has Caddys and Volvos. They have similar CPO programs. We do everything that needs to be done to certify it except turn it in and pay for it. So even if you don't get it "certified", it still has had all the inspections and reconditioning. Every dealer is different. Make sure everything is the way it's supposed to be before buying
From the customer point of view, this cheapens the CPO label. How do I know if it really meets all the criteria, even if it says so? Taking the dealer's word for something isn't always a safe bet.
By brand, what percentage do the CPO 'cerfitication' after the sale? All of them? Do all brands implement this essentially the same way?
Many times, the basic shop visit is done, and if the car sells as a certified vehicle, it goes back into the shop for the rest of the checkup and parts replacements.
IMO, the 121 point inspection and reconditioning should be done to any used car, before it goes to retail road. Maybe the CPO is a little more stringent (ie when to replace the tires), but I think, if they are advertising them as CPO cars (and dealers do), that stuff better be done first.
Not being cynical, but what guarantee is there that the dealer will take the car back into the shop and spend time/money doing things to it, after a deal is signed? I understand that they will wait to buy the warranty, but are they going to spend the 1-2 hours fo shop time after the fact, if they are willing to put a car with shot tires on the front row?
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2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Also, know those Jeeps are VERY SOFT in the market right now especially an ex-rental.
And also know that when you go to sell it, some people will pass when they see the CarFax showing ex-rental status.
I've owned two ex-rental cars in the past and they were both great cars.
Not correct at least not for Cadillac. I looked up amlost 20 CTS in GMs dealerworld system - actually the sales mgr printed them out for me. and all the "certified" ones had the CPO 6 yr / 100 mile listed right in the applicable warranties section" of the summaries.
Except for the one I bought of course, because they had just sent it in to GM. So I'll be sure to hound the sales mgr to verify my car's status every week.
You can also "de-certify" a car, it'll save you 1,000 in Cadillac's case, but why bother???
I can't speak for other makes, except that most GMs are similar in that they can be "de-certified"
Edmunds has a nice section on CPO - take a look at it if you want info on a particular make.
It's the inspection, the warranty and the "punching" of the card with the manufacturer for the CPO that makes it really "certified" ...
And depending on the vehicle, it can cost anywhere from $600 to $2,000+ depending on the work, parts and the labor ..... and yes, all vehicles: Bimmers, Honda's, Benz's, Chevy's, Chrysler, etc can be "de-certified" - it's done everyday .. especially if the dealer sends the vehicle off to the auction, he calls back the CPO, but he still incurs any of the parts and labor charges - thats why import dealers want to be waaay back of book at trade time .........
Depending on the vehicle, the miles and the how long your going to keep it, sometimes your better off negotiating the CPO "out" of the deal .. why pay $1,500 for something you won't use.?
Terry.
IOW, you can't negotiate the CPO out of the deal..
And, the warranty stays with the car, no matter how many times it is sold, etc... even through non-BMW dealers, etc...
I realize this is definitely NOT the case with most CPOs...
regards,
kyfdx
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Not in MI they ain't... 4x4 anythings bring good money all year long. The Cherokee isn't as strong as a 95-02 4Runner, but they're doing fine AFAIK. Of course, in your neck of the woods, I wouldn't know...
-Mathias
The warranty isn't paid for until the vehicle is sold and the paperwork is punched with the vin# and the owners info ...
Stop and think about it .. dealer takes in a 03 330i with 25k, it needs brakes, rubber, wipers, battery, a this and a that, then it's easy for a Bimmer dealer to drop $800/$900 just for the parts and labor, then drop another $1,200ish for the warranty and the whole time, the dealer is paying floorplan for the next 40/90 days ... now in some occasions they will leave them certified and run them thru the Bimmer lanes, then when they run the no-sales in the next 2 hours or the next day they "de-certify" them depending on the dealer ....
As yes, you can negotiate the CPO out of the deal ..............
Terry.
But, BMWs once sold as CPO, they are CPO for life.. even if traded in later to MOMANDPOP used cars..
As with the original warranty and maintenance, the warranty goes with the car, not the buyer..
I only point this out, because others have said that only "XYZ" dealer can sell a certified "XYZ" car.. and that is true for many makes.. but, it is entirely possible for "ABC" dealer to have a CPO BMW on his lot... One thing that makes this possible is that the BMW CPO warranty uses the original in-service date... as opposed to Lexus, for example.. that runs for three years from the date of CPO sale.
regards,
kyfdx
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This is certainly true of the Saab I bought. In fact, the indy dealer I bought the car from didn't even know it was CPO until we went through the glove box and found the CPO certificate. Called up Saab to double-check, and sure enough, I have 15 mo. of the remaining CPO warrantee. The previous owner had bought the car used, probably off lease, and had it certified.
The *original* certification can only be done by a dealer of that make, but if you happen to buy a used car that has already been certified, the warrantee will transfer for many cars.
i wonder if most people like myself believe that a certified car is a car that's been inspected and determined to be a cut-above the other used vehicles one might purchase used, specially on the dealers lot. now i understand the increased cost is essentially for a warranty one would be paying for anyway - not for a vehicle that's passed particular inspection / condition hurdles before a buyer even looks at it.
yikes. so dealers and manufacturers get to use this "certified" term rather advantageously.
now i realise that some programs may be different, but...
so to the point of the hosts in the subject-line: why isn't Edmunds bringing this issue up (front and center) in the "Tips and Advice" or "Certified Cars" area of this site so people are clearly warned of this fact????
Actually, look at the main page, and on the left, 2nd row of boxes down...if i'm not mistaken, the link for the Certified area of the site has verbage to the effect: CERTIFIED "factory inspected".
OK. maybe I'm crazy, but aren't all vehicles "factory inspected" on the date they are manufactured?
wow - what can be done about that? Edmunds (my perspective) is an accessory to continuing this mis-representation and thus, doing some nieve visitors / shoppers a dis-service by using this phrase "factory inspected" and not clearly indicating what constitutes standard operating procedure in the industry.
there goes my account.
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a sincere thanks. i think it's an important revelation for consumers, so much so that Edmunds shouldn't hide information on the topic nor confuse.
oh joy, now my account is really in trouble.
basically a good used car that has been inspected/serviced/detailed before it was put out n the lot, which IMO all used cars at a dealer should be, plus an extended warranty from the manufacturer.
Nothing magical about CPO. You should be able to find a car just as nice non-CPO (maybe do your own service), and add the warranty if you want. It just becomes a cost/benefit analysis to you.
IIRC, the real reason behind the CPO programs was to give peace of mind to consumers looking at relatively expensive brand cars (like a BMW), where they couldn't afford new but still wanted warranty protction, etc. Plus it let dealers charge more jingle.
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But, never wrecked? Unfortunately, that is not part of it.. It should be, but isn't. There may be some minimum standard as far as body damage or frame work, etc... But, your CPO car may indeed have been in an accident.. and have a lot of paint work.
regards,
kyfdx
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People always ask me..." Has this car EVER been in an accident?"
My answer..." Probably".
Then I go on to tell them that we check for signs of major repair and dump those cars. I also tell them that it's entirely possible that at some point in that car's life, it's been in a body shop for something or the other.
http://automobiles.honda.com/certified/standards.asp
Click on the Mechanical and Appearence links for more information.
isellhondas, does this mean that it's possible that a Honda "certified vehicle" (a misnomer based on what you guys have been discussing...perhaps instead "a candidate vehicle for certification") *could* have been in an accident, had repairs, and still be asking a premium price?
perhaps a potential shopper should
a). be looking at the vin decals on all the major parts like the hood and fenders and doors and truck, etc to verify they match. (probably good to do no matter if certified or private party).
b). perform a CarFax check of vehicle history.
c). have it independantly inspected.
sound advice for a potential buyer, or would that bother the salesman?
According to the link you provided.. the only thing that definitely disqualifies it:
1) "lemon".. I assume this means a manufacturer buyback car that has had the title stamped.
2) Salvage title
3) VIN plates on door jambs, dash and engine compartment not matching (notice it says nothing about body panels).
CPO cars SHOULD be better than the average run-of-the-mill used car... But, a lot depends on the selling dealer.. Just like with any used car purchase..
The only thing you can be sure of, without doing the due diligence, is the extended warranty..
regards,
kyfdx
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I took it to a quality shop and it looked fine.
1. Has it been in "an accident"? well, yeah.
2. Is it a lesser car now? No.
That's why I say "probably" when people ask. I have no way of knowing since I wasn't with the car it's entire life.
Also, Car Fax isn't foolproof.
my question to you: would it be very out of line for a potential CPO customer to ask the dealership to report out on all work done on the vehicle as reported in the manufacturer's tracking system, in your case Honda's for a Honda CPO vehicle?
We might not fix every insignificant problem but we tell about what we see.
And, sometimes, people get scared away by this and that's fine too.
There are people who should NOT buy used cars. They are too suspecious and worry too much about what might be wrong.
It might not be fair, but that is a fact.. It is easy to overlook from a sales perspective.. But, to the buyer, it matters, because it will cost them money on re-sale..
Granted, if you are buying a five-year-old Civic, by the time you sell it, not that important.. But, change that to an '03 BMW, and that $1200 oopsie will drop the price by a good $2K-$3K.
regards,
kyfdx
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If you would have asked, I would have explained the extent of the damage and shown you the receipts. If you then decided to walk, fine.
If you, at that point decided that I should drop the price by a "good" 2-3 thousand dollars, you would have bought another car.
Now, if the car had had a major collision I would agree with you.
And, as I said... the difference is a lot less with a five-year-old Civic, than with a newer BMW (that is where the $2K-$3K figure came from).
Whether I decide to walk, or whether you can convince one single person to pay the same price as a previously undamaged car is irrelevant..
I didn't make it up.. Go ask Terry in RWTIV.. Paint work devalues the car..
regards,
kyfdx
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Yes, to a point it will devalue a car but not in the case of my Civic it didn't. Trust me, you would have ne ver known about it and even an experienced car guy like Terry would have had trouble spotting it if they could at all.
And, yes, if it were a BMW or a Benz the effects would have been greater although that 2-3000 number would have been a stretch. The damage was nothing and the body shop does first class work.
I agree that it would devalue it only a small amount, but it would still be something.
The rest of the car,was in such superior condition to others on the market 9 out of 10 buyers wouldn't have cared.
A 1200.00 scrape hardly qualifies a car as "wrecked".
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No need to panic, it's a federal form and it must be displayed .. any warranties over and above the original factory warranty will supersede it .. next time, just have the dealer show the paperwork before you run ..
Terry.
02->03 year 1
03->04 year 2
04->05 year 3
was the in-service date somewhere between 01/01/2002 and 01/19/2002?
Terry.
Thank you very much.
Tambeng
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I've read your posts and I'm enlightened by the January discussion. I hope you're still out there! I purchased a certified 2002 Accord EX on March 21, 2005 from a local dealership. Two weeks later, the engine light came on. I'm told that I need a new transmission. They're supposed to put the new transmission in tomorrow. One week later, the brakes were making a horrible "dragging" sound. That problem has yet to be diagnosed. Did I mention that the side airbag light comes on from time to time and the service manager tells me that Hondas do that because of the weight that is placed in the passenger seat? Service manager observed that I carry a heavy bag for work. I couldn't be more aggravated by this situation.
I don't fear used cars. I bought my first Accord as a grad student with 90K miles, and I kept it for 7 years (beyond 200K). I'm now wishing that I'd kept my old car for longer. At least I knew what was wrong with it, and since it wasn't certified, I didn't have any expectations for it.
This "new" car was supposed to be the best that I could have asked for in a used Honda. Now, I'm back and forth for new parts and maintenance that should have been done well before now. Did I mention that it was questionable as to whether or not they would provide me with a car to drive? Of course, they're paying for repairs because it's "certified", but the truth is that I simply don't trust Honda's certification program... at least not at this dealership. I'm considering calling the 1800-Honda number. I did better as a "kid" purchasing a car from someone other random person on the street--no pretense, no certification, no dealership.
2) The side airbag light is functioning properly.. It is a safety feature, so that one could put a child seat in the front and not have to worry about the airbag going off. Put your bag on the floor if it really bothers you.
3) The brakes... if they are worn, then that should have been caught during the inspection.. but, again, you can't predict failure of a mechanical part.
4) The certification process is okay, but what you are really buying is an extended warranty... That part of it seems to be working out for you.
I know mechanical breakdowns are no fun, but they can happen with any car.. Be glad you have a warranty.
regards,
kyfdx
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I'm not sure how it's normally done, but Suzuki in Canada will go through the certification process when you decide to purchase a vehicle (and give them a $500 deposit). This, to me, seems a little odd.
The other odd thing is that there was no mention of a warrantee with CPO, although the dealer did say that he would encourage anyone to get extended warrantee if there was nothing left on the original.