Some buyers aren't comfortable unless they have a long warranty on a used car they are buying.
Others don't really care all that much.
As I said in another forum, I'm sure that SOME car dealers do a sub-standard job of inspecting their certified cars. A quality dealer with a good reputation that takes pride will not do this.
This is why it's important to check out the reputation of a dealer before buying. Talk to your friends and neighbors.
And use caution with some of these private sellers. Low mileage doesn't necessarilly mean a good car!
I got the Honda Checklist down to about 28 actual meaningful items. They went so far as to state they will DO some specific things to the car as part of their checklist such as "Oil and Filter Change" and "Change ATF if discolored" - a little better than VW but still very misleading, I think. The majority of the items were, again, simple self-check items or NYS Safety Inspection requirements. I was impressed that they claim to replace brake linings if more than 1/2 worn - NYS specifies a minimum thickness but it is considerably less than half! (Even so Honda tries to take credit for this and then adds another "check brake lings" item to pad the list!!
Yeah, a lot of the 150 items to check are pretty minor to be sure.
Still, if the brake pads are at 50% or less we replace them which seems like a big waste of money to me. We also have to replace tires that really aren't bad. We have to replace car batteries that may have another three years of life in them.
So, the buyer is getting a good car that they shouldn't have to spend much money on.
1.) Reputation is an important issue in buying used cars from a dealer! Talk to your friends and don't buy from someone that has given someone you know problems... (Well, consider their problems! I have friends who create their own problems and then complain that the dealer doesn't fix it - if you buy a station wagon and expect it to handle like a sports car you have no one to blame but yourself!) 2.) YOU HAVE TO DO A THOROUGH SELF-CHECK ON ANY USED CAR, ESPECIALLY PRIVATE OWNER SALES! The certified used checklists are good for one thing - they would make a very good self-check Checklist for anybody that is shopping for a used car... You should always consider asking for permission to take the car to a trusted mechanic for check-out if you are not confident in your ability to check everything!
Keep on selling those Certfied Used Hondas - according to my analysis your checklist is twice as comprehensive as VWs! Ha! Ha!
This is a wonderful marketing tool designed by the manufacturers too help promote their dealers, by pushing their used car inventories with a factory warranty that YOU pay for ..
That said, the vehicles get the "round the block" cruise, and anything that might Scream "fix me" gets fixed .. then you get the oil change, a nice pretty detail and a real nice little mirror or window sticker that says - CERTIFIED ....... wow.
Depending on the vehicle type, the dealer knows if there is a failure, the warranty pays for it ~ with your money of course.
You are better off with a great inspection from someone you trust, negotiate the CERTIFIED junk out of the deal, save yourself $800/$3,000 depending on the vehicle, then finding a good warranty via Edmunds or some other info source, if indeed that floats your boat ..
Take it another step, though, and shop the want ads.
All of this leaves you needing a good mechanic, if you're not one yourself. http://cartalk.cars.com/ purports to list good mechanics recommended by consumers.
I agree it's nuts to throw out perfectly good batteries, brake pads, and whatevers.
But to the many yahoos out there who DON"T maintain their cars, they may actually be better off that way.
I personally want to buy the car dirty and just traded in, so the dealer didn't have to invest $$ into it... I'll do my own inspections and fixing up, thank you very much. I always think it's funny people talk about having "recourse" on a used car. I don't want recourse, I want a good car to begin with.. if it's been taken care of so far, it'll last me as long as I like it.
Terry's right, it's a marketing tool. -Mathias (Who's on vacation and should be doing yard work right now)
Terry, we've touched on this before. I don't agree with you on this subject (yes, I know you're heartbroken now )
Yes, the inspection process may or may not be worth a penny, but as Carman noted, the manufacturer extended warranty is what makes the difference. Yes, it also depends on the dollar amount added to the sales price. But I'll give you one good example: MB certification adds around 12-1400 dollars on a car. One leaky head gasket later, and you are ahead of the game financially. Trust me on that one. And all those minor annoyances become fully-covered items. Power mirror acting funny? its covered. retractable cup holder squeaks? its covered. Show me an aftermarket warranty that provides less hassle, and I'll eat my hat.
I'd rather have a warranty from the manufacturer than a warranty from a third party by a long shot.I bought a used certified MB and to my chagrin it has been back to the dealer 4 or 5 times in the 16 months I have owned it.However,everything is always fixed.If it was a third party warranty,I'd be going through the hassle of getting authorization,coordinating that authorization with MB service etc. So maybe it is marketing but to a consumer it is also ease-and to many of us that is worth something.
Certified or not certified.....mmmmmmm I like certified because we make consistently higher gross profits. Which isnt a crime. many consumers feel more comfortable buying a "certified" used car and that is fine.... But if I was buying a used car for myself, being certified would not matter. The reason is simple. I would buy from a quality retailer in the first place... The locally owned dealership with a great reputation in sales and service will service and prep their used cars as good if not better than many certified dealers.
Everyone wants to know the magic button to buying a good used car and it starts with a locally owned dealership that has a solid reputation!!!
The only way I know of to get a previously owned car with a 24Month/24,000Mile Bumper to Bumper Warranty, save wear & tear items, and 24/24 Free Roadside Assistance provided by AAA is to get a Certified Pre-Owned Volkswagen...
Seems like a good value to me...After all, that peace of mind must mean something...
.... >> But I'll give you one good example: MB certification adds around 12-1400 dollars on a car <<
If a customer is "fully aware" of the program and the cost of it and also feels comfortable with it, then its not a biggie .. but $1,2/$1,400 for a MB ..? ~ let's try $2,5/$2,8 .. that's a lot of head gaskets.
In addition to other, more subjective issues, the most important thing to me about a car is knowing that when I turn the key, the car will start and I can go about my business...
Keep a Pre-owned Car 60 months, pay the additional money...less than a buck a day...
I always felt that certified pre-owned was a meaningless marketing term. I have always shopped for slightly used creampuffs that had remaining factory warranty. My concern with a used car is driving off the lot and having the transmission fall out at the first stop sign. With factory warranty remaining, it takes some of the worry away. Any problems will be fixed by the manufacturer under the original warranty. Buy a quality car with a good reliability record and you should be fine. Forget the CPO.
Hi, I just wanted to discuss the phrase "cerified pre-owned". What do people think they are not getting a used car? This really irks me,this twisted euphemism. What do you guys think? Does this bother you like it does me?
I hope no one is so naive to believe that a "pre-owned" car is "new".
Most manufacturers have a selection process and more serious checks and balances on a certified vehicle than on the typical trade-in from Mr and Mrs Smith.
Because of the checklist, additional warranties are usually a part of the deal, as are financing options, in some cases.
Whether a certified car really gets the whole shebang of the checklist checkout is up to each dealer and the actual technician checking the car.
I'd still pay a local guy (trusted private shop) to do a "once over" before buying.
the only thing some programs certify is that the car was "pre-owned." if you are serious about one, you might be able to sweet-talk the salesman into pulling the service records on the car, so you know what was done to it. generally, the mileage would be low enough on one of these program cars so I wouldn't expect to see major things like transmissions, ball joints, and internal engine repairs... just oil changes and maybe a muffler or shocks or tires.
But, usually, if the certification is from the factory that made the car, the warranty has been extended significantly, and the car can usually be depended upon to have been checked out well. Sometimes, the warranty will go into the 70's. That gives one some comfort when buying used.
Lexus and Honda are the only two I know of who try to sell the image that the car is "just like new", but they are generally in such good shape, it's hard to tell they're not.
Personally, I don't have any problems with the term, and may even consider one. Particularly if it would be a car I normally couldn't afford new.
...you know the doors are not falling off. I think its one of the best things to happen in used cars, with Car Max and others bringing in almost new cars and dealers getting cars back from short leases, there are a lot of low mileage cars out there to pick from. Going the extra mile and checking them so they can be put as Certified Pre-owned doesnt hurt one bit, like when you go to buy a nearly new house you still want to know that the support beams havent been eaten through by termites.............:0)
Having owned a couple of Audi A4 CPOs. In both cases I got cars that were as good as new and performed exceptionally well for thousands less than a new one.
My '98 Quattro wagon is now over 100k and running like a train. It's easily the best, most reliable car I've ever owned.
As for terminology, you could call them UFW (used factory-warranted) or whatever. I'll be doing it again and we'll probably keep the wagon.
In working for a VW dealer, I know for a fact that the car HAS to pass a 118 point inspection. If the car doesn't match up with factory specs, it CANNOT be sold as a certified car with the 2 yr./24000 mile warranty. Hope this is of help to you
Hi, I just wanted to add another thought to this discussion. What also gets me perturbed is that there is no such word in the dictionary as PRE-OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks David
Wellllll, you can effectively link Pre to just about any past tense verb and not get an F in grammar....but we all know they're used. Well, I THINK we all know that, don't we?
The most cost effective way seems to be buying from a private party that has all the vehicle's maintenance records and will allow you to have the car inspected by your own personal mechanic. After you have screened the car yourself and found no obvious problems, for the cost of an hour or two of the shop's labor, you can have your own mechanic go over the car as well or better than the CPO's program and you can be sure that the inspection was really done and when. On many cars, you can still buy the manufacturer's extended warranty as long as you purchase it before the factory warranty expires and have the service records. So, you don't necessarily have to get a "sleazy third party warranty" if you buy from a private party. It's also possible to find a car being sold by a private party that already has a transferable manufacturer's extended warranty that was purchased by the original owner. The cost of the paying your mechanic and hour or two of labor, plus the cost of buying the factory extended warranty yourself, if needed, should still be much less than what you would pay for a CPO car. If you are buying a newer car that still has some factory warranty left and has service records, it is very unlikely that there will be existing mechanical problems since the seller could have had any problems fixed free under warranty before putting the vehicle up for sale. The reason for having the mechanic check it out is for additional peace of mind and so he can make sure there are not problems that would not be covered by the warranty such as accident or flood damage or items that are simply worn out and excluded from warranties (such as brakes and so on).
most certified cars come with an extended warranty (factory) of some sort.
To me, it's a toss up. Plus, as a retailer, the dealer can be held accountable if there's an jicky stuff with the car deal - tough luck if you're dealing with a private seller - the BBB and attorney general can't touch them.
What problems are you going to have with a private party if you have the car checked out properly both mechanically and title (Carfax report etc.) and especially if you are buying a car that is still under the remaining factory warranty? Sounds like dealer salesperson scare tactics. Just check the car out properly. You could even have the mechanical inspection done at a dealership service department if you pay them and you have time to wait. If you don't want to, then pay the extra thousands of dollars to the dealer for the CPO program car and don't complain.
Buying from a dealer in a real CPO program can give you an avenue for resolution in event of a conflict.
I've never bought used, but I've sold used cars, and handed over all the papers and suggested a mechanic look things over, but other than that, you bought it, YOU deal with it if something goes awry, says I.
Of course, if something goes wrong with the car after you had it properly inspected, you do not go back to the seller and try to get them to do something about it. It is your car now and you should have saved enough money to deal with the warranty yourself. I am referring to newer used cars that are still covered under the factory warranty or the manufacturer's extended warranty. What do you really expect even a dealership to do other than fix the car under warranty if the transmission dies a month after you buy a car from them?
Well, I'm not sure how this particular hair got up your rectum, but if buying private makes you jolly, you should do it and enjoy!
With more and more near-lux, sport-lux and lux models going out the doors on heavily-subsidized leases, the end result is a goodly amount of inventory going CPO, so the chances of finding a particular model, equipped and colored as desired, with inspections done and warranties extended, at a great price, are getting better all the time.
I don't sell cars, so I can't say with a stake that anyone should go one way or another, but I see no reason whatsoever to avoid a good CPO offering. If the price ain't right for you, walk away! Works every time...
I didn't say you should never get a CPO car under any circumstances. I am saying they are not worth paying thousands more for a similar car that is also covered by factory warranty. Obviously, if they are around the same price, you can save the hassle of inspecting the car yourself and driving from house to house. It isn't worth it to save $200, but it is worth it to many people to save thousands. They will not be the same price because even if the dealers have a "great price," private parties will have to adjust their prices down even lower by a good margin or they will never sell them. Most people looking at used cars are doing it to save money or they would just get a new car. Many of the near-new CPO cars I have seen are priced in a way that I would just skip them and get a new car instead. Obviously you cannot always buy from a private party because there may not be anything available locally you would want the day you're ready to buy and dealers always have some selection to choose from. Some people need a dealer to give them financing or need the dealer to take their trade-in.
about this, since I don't really care WHAT you buy...
"What do you really expect even a dealership to do other than fix the car under warranty if the transmission dies a month after you buy a car from them?"
Well, they could simply exchange the car - easy to do on a certified used car, not like a new car. I've done that, for sure. A private seller can't do that.
I deal with lemon law and breach of warranty cases, so I'm jaded towards the law - I'll protect myself in any way I can, and I advise friends and family to do the same.
Hey, but if it's not for you, relax, have a latte, and buy from the guy down the street. Of course, you can't enforce a Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act claim or Unfair Trade Practices claim against Joe Schmoe down the block...
Don't know why you keep making those types of rude comments. I am not picking a fight. This is not about you. I am making comments about the CPO program, not you. Ok. If all or even most dealers will simply let you exchange the car a month later if something major goes wrong with their CPO program cars and they charge about the same as a private party would, then that is a good deal and everyone should buy those cars.
We just bought a CPO Lexus. Besides the things Zeus mentioned, another thing in favor of going the CPO route was that LFS was offering 1.9%. You can't get that kind of rate from a bank for a used car. Just another data point.
I don't mind buying a car I have a history with from a private seller I know. I just take the chance that something won't blow seriously, since I have history with the car. But I won't by from private sellers I don't know. I either buy new, or used from a reputable dealer that I know, generally. I think CPO is a great incentive for the consumer, and it's worth the extra money to me.
You are taking a chance if you buy a car from a private party that you didn't have inspected before purchase and that has no warranty. However, if you do have it inspected and you are buying a newer car that has factory warranty remaining, there is no particular risk you're taking. If the seller doesn't have an extended warranty he's transferring to you with the sale, you can buy one before the factory warranty expires and still come out ahead of the cost of a CPO car. If the engine blows up a couple months later, you take it to a dealer and have the engine repaired under warranty the same as if you had purchased it from a dealer. Lots of people don't want to bother with having their mechanic inspect the car, so they pay the extra cost for the convenience of buying from a dealer. If you want convenience over savings, you can have them get financing for you and take your trade in so everything done for you and all you have to do is sign the papers. You can get rid of your old car and get a replacement in a few hours if you wake up one day and spontaneously decide "I want a new car right now!"
Do you mean things like paying off a car you're upside in and rolling the negative equity into the "new" car? Yes, that is someting a private party can't do if you need that. Of course, now you are even deeper into the replacement car, but if you really hate the old car, that is a way out of it.
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Others don't really care all that much.
As I said in another forum, I'm sure that SOME car dealers do a sub-standard job of inspecting their certified cars. A quality dealer with a good reputation that takes pride will not do this.
This is why it's important to check out the reputation of a dealer before buying. Talk to your friends and neighbors.
And use caution with some of these private sellers. Low mileage doesn't necessarilly mean a good car!
Still, if the brake pads are at 50% or less we replace them which seems like a big waste of money to me. We also have to replace tires that really aren't bad. We have to replace car batteries that may have another three years of life in them.
So, the buyer is getting a good car that they shouldn't have to spend much money on.
And for a lot of people, that's a good thing.
2.) YOU HAVE TO DO A THOROUGH SELF-CHECK ON ANY USED CAR, ESPECIALLY PRIVATE OWNER SALES! The certified used checklists are good for one thing - they would make a very good self-check Checklist for anybody that is shopping for a used car... You should always consider asking for permission to take the car to a trusted mechanic for check-out if you are not confident in your ability to check everything!
Keep on selling those Certfied Used Hondas - according to my analysis your checklist is twice as comprehensive as VWs! Ha! Ha!
This is a wonderful marketing tool designed by the manufacturers too help promote their dealers, by pushing their used car inventories with a factory warranty that YOU pay for ..
That said, the vehicles get the "round the block" cruise, and anything that might Scream "fix me" gets fixed .. then you get the oil change, a nice pretty detail and a real nice little mirror or window sticker that says - CERTIFIED ....... wow.
Depending on the vehicle type, the dealer knows if there is a failure, the warranty pays for it ~ with your money of course.
You are better off with a great inspection from someone you trust, negotiate the CERTIFIED junk out of the deal, save yourself $800/$3,000 depending on the vehicle, then finding a good warranty via Edmunds or some other info source, if indeed that floats your boat ..
Terry.
All of this leaves you needing a good mechanic, if you're not one yourself. http://cartalk.cars.com/ purports to list good mechanics recommended by consumers.
But to the many yahoos out there who DON"T maintain their cars, they may actually be better off that way.
I personally want to buy the car dirty and just traded in, so the dealer didn't have to invest $$ into it... I'll do my own inspections and fixing up, thank you very much. I always think it's funny people talk about having "recourse" on a used car. I don't want recourse, I want a good car to begin with.. if it's been taken care of so far, it'll last me as long as I like it.
Terry's right, it's a marketing tool.
-Mathias
(Who's on vacation and should be doing yard work right now)
Yes, the inspection process may or may not be worth a penny, but as Carman noted, the manufacturer extended warranty is what makes the difference. Yes, it also depends on the dollar amount added to the sales price.
But I'll give you one good example: MB certification adds around 12-1400 dollars on a car. One leaky head gasket later, and you are ahead of the game financially. Trust me on that one.
And all those minor annoyances become fully-covered items. Power mirror acting funny? its covered. retractable cup holder squeaks? its covered.
Show me an aftermarket warranty that provides less hassle, and I'll eat my hat.
So maybe it is marketing but to a consumer it is also ease-and to many of us that is worth something.
Lots of liability issues to deal with.
Yard work done?
I like certified because we make consistently higher gross profits. Which isnt a crime. many consumers feel more comfortable buying a "certified" used car and that is fine.... But if I was buying a used car for myself, being certified would not matter. The reason is simple. I would buy from a quality retailer in the first place... The locally owned dealership with a great reputation in sales and service will service and prep their used cars as good if not better than many certified dealers.
Everyone wants to know the magic button to buying a good used car and it starts with a locally owned dealership that has a solid reputation!!!
Seems like a good value to me...After all, that peace of mind must mean something...
If a customer is "fully aware" of the program and the cost of it and also feels comfortable with it, then its not a biggie .. but $1,2/$1,400 for a MB ..? ~ let's try $2,5/$2,8 .. that's a lot of head gaskets.
Terry.
Keep a Pre-owned Car 60 months, pay the additional money...less than a buck a day...
Terry.
If the car rode in on a hook and it was not a CPO; you would be digging out the ole check book...Can you say $4000 for a new Transmission????
I just wanted to discuss the phrase "cerified
pre-owned". What do people think they are not getting a used car? This really irks me,this
twisted euphemism. What do you guys think?
Does this bother you like it does me?
David
Most manufacturers have a selection process and more serious checks and balances on a certified vehicle than on the typical trade-in from Mr and Mrs Smith.
Because of the checklist, additional warranties are usually a part of the deal, as are financing options, in some cases.
Whether a certified car really gets the whole shebang of the checklist checkout is up to each dealer and the actual technician checking the car.
I'd still pay a local guy (trusted private shop) to do a "once over" before buying.
Lexus and Honda are the only two I know of who try to sell the image that the car is "just like new", but they are generally in such good shape, it's hard to tell they're not.
Personally, I don't have any problems with the term, and may even consider one. Particularly if it would be a car I normally couldn't afford new.
My '98 Quattro wagon is now over 100k and running like a train. It's easily the best, most reliable car I've ever owned.
As for terminology, you could call them UFW (used factory-warranted)
or whatever. I'll be doing it again and we'll probably keep the wagon.
Not new but good as new works fine for me.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
http://www.vw.com/vwcertified/112points.htm
I do see engine listed three times, though, as I scroll down
I just wanted to add another thought to this
discussion. What also gets me perturbed is
that there is no such word in the dictionary
as PRE-OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks
David
I prefer "used" or "new" - makes things much clearer.
On many cars, you can still buy the manufacturer's extended warranty as long as you purchase it before the factory warranty expires and have the service records. So, you don't necessarily have to get a "sleazy third party warranty" if you buy from a private party. It's also possible to find a car being sold by a private party that already has a transferable manufacturer's extended warranty that was purchased by the original owner.
The cost of the paying your mechanic and hour or two of labor, plus the cost of buying the factory extended warranty yourself, if needed, should still be much less than what you would pay for a CPO car.
If you are buying a newer car that still has some factory warranty left and has service records, it is very unlikely that there will be existing mechanical problems since the seller could have had any problems fixed free under warranty before putting the vehicle up for sale. The reason for having the mechanic check it out is for additional peace of mind and so he can make sure there are not problems that would not be covered by the warranty such as accident or flood damage or items that are simply worn out and excluded from warranties (such as brakes and so on).
To me, it's a toss up. Plus, as a retailer, the dealer can be held accountable if there's an jicky stuff with the car deal - tough luck if you're dealing with a private seller - the BBB and attorney general can't touch them.
Sounds like dealer salesperson scare tactics.
Just check the car out properly. You could even have the mechanical inspection done at a dealership service department if you pay them and you have time to wait.
If you don't want to, then pay the extra thousands of dollars to the dealer for the CPO program car and don't complain.
Buying from a dealer in a real CPO program can give you an avenue for resolution in event of a conflict.
I've never bought used, but I've sold used cars, and handed over all the papers and suggested a mechanic look things over, but other than that, you bought it, YOU deal with it if something goes awry, says I.
It is your car now and you should have saved enough money to deal with the warranty yourself. I am referring to newer used cars that are still covered under the factory warranty or the manufacturer's extended warranty.
What do you really expect even a dealership to do other than fix the car under warranty if the transmission dies a month after you buy a car from them?
With more and more near-lux, sport-lux and lux models going out the doors on heavily-subsidized leases, the end result is a goodly amount of inventory going CPO, so the chances of finding a particular model, equipped and colored as desired, with inspections done and warranties extended, at a great price, are getting better all the time.
I don't sell cars, so I can't say with a stake that anyone should go one way or another, but I see no reason whatsoever to avoid a good CPO offering. If the price ain't right for you, walk away! Works every time...
They will not be the same price because even if the dealers have a "great price," private parties will have to adjust their prices down even lower by a good margin or they will never sell them.
Most people looking at used cars are doing it to save money or they would just get a new car. Many of the near-new CPO cars I have seen are priced in a way that I would just skip them and get a new car instead.
Obviously you cannot always buy from a private party because there may not be anything available locally you would want the day you're ready to buy and dealers always have some selection to choose from. Some people need a dealer to give them financing or need the dealer to take their trade-in.
"What do you really expect even a dealership to do other than fix the car under warranty if the transmission dies a month after you buy a car from them?"
Well, they could simply exchange the car - easy to do on a certified used car, not like a new car. I've done that, for sure. A private seller can't do that.
I deal with lemon law and breach of warranty cases, so I'm jaded towards the law - I'll protect myself in any way I can, and I advise friends and family to do the same.
Hey, but if it's not for you, relax, have a latte, and buy from the guy down the street. Of course, you can't enforce a Magnussen-Moss Warranty Act claim or Unfair Trade Practices claim against Joe Schmoe down the block...
And no, I'm not in the car business.
Ok. If all or even most dealers will simply let you exchange the car a month later if something major goes wrong with their CPO program cars and they charge about the same as a private party would, then that is a good deal and everyone should buy those cars.
And I've said absolutely nothing that was meant as or could be construed as rude.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
However, if you do have it inspected and you are buying a newer car that has factory warranty remaining, there is no particular risk you're taking. If the seller doesn't have an extended warranty he's transferring to you with the sale, you can buy one before the factory warranty expires and still come out ahead of the cost of a CPO car.
If the engine blows up a couple months later, you take it to a dealer and have the engine repaired under warranty the same as if you had purchased it from a dealer.
Lots of people don't want to bother with having their mechanic inspect the car, so they pay the extra cost for the convenience of buying from a dealer.
If you want convenience over savings, you can have them get financing for you and take your trade in so everything done for you and all you have to do is sign the papers. You can get rid of your old car and get a replacement in a few hours if you wake up one day and spontaneously decide "I want a new car right now!"
Yes, that is someting a private party can't do if you need that. Of course, now you are even deeper into the replacement car, but if you really hate the old car, that is a way out of it.