Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles

mmcbride1

When I had my 4Runner, it developed a rattle at about 25,000 miles. I was told by Toyota that the warranty only covered squeaks and rattles for one year or 12,000 miles even though the car had a 3/36k b to b warranty.

silverprincess

I took delivery of a CPO 1999 323i about a month ago and my advice to any buyer is on the day you take delivery at the dealership, make sure that the dealer parks the car under direct sunlight when you're doing your final inspection!!! Mine is jet black and I was too excited and gullible to let the dealer park the car in-doors where the lighting was not good enough to detect all the dings in the paint and other imperfections. Make sure to check the underbody carriage also as I found that on my car, the front, rear and sides all had paint scratches. Although I accepted the dealer's argument that under the CPO program, they are not responsible for paint "under the vehicle" (I still don't know if this is true or not), and the fact that I purchased my car in San Francisco (horrible terrain and potholes), and the fact that it has the Sport Package (ie. lower suspension), I nevertheless crawled underneath the car and looked VERY carefully and had the him put it down IN WRITING on the paperwork (what's called a "DUE BILL") for me to bring the car back on another day to be worked on. Believe me, it would be VERY hard to convince the dealership to do any touch ups (especially body related work) if you found out the imperfections after-the-fact, after you've driven off the dealer lot! My salesperson was cooperative to do the work and honest too by telling me that he was glad that I noticed the problems off the bat. All in all, it has been a wonderful experience so far - I love the 1999 heavy steering, handling, agility, and the drop dead gorgeous look of my 323i 4dr sedan/ manual/SP/jet black/sand interior/moonroof/rear- folding seats.

smartbuy

Has anyone successfully haggled when buying a certified used car? It seems pretty difficult and I'd like to know if anyone did it. If so, some tips please. Also, when asking the dealer to take the cert. used car to my mechanic, they got all upset. Is that normal?

raybear

You got some answers at The Fool already.

In a nutshell, yes, you can haggle but remember certification is essentially an extended warranty and has costs associated with it.

rroyce10

... Ray is giving you some good advice. Me personally, all that Certified junk is .. just junk.

The vehicle comes in off trade, lease or auction. They give it the neighborhood walk, give it a oil and filter change, adjust any glaring noise or possible problem -- hang a real special "Certified" sticker on the window, adjust the retail price even higher to cover the warranty --- and Wango Tango .. your "Certified".

If a dealer won't let you take it to a another Tech (not a shade tree, a real one) .. then someone said it best on this forum -- "See those things at the end of your legs" .. "those are called feet" start using em', and go out the door.

Terry.

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi smartbuy. My thoughts on Certified Used Vehicles are very similar to those that were mentioned above. Unfortunately, all too often dealerships ignore the 200- or 300-point inspection of Certified vehicles that is mandated by their manufacturer and instead just go over the vehicle quickly and put it on their lots. Of course, Certified vehicles do come with a factory-backed extended warranty. Even so, this sort of coverage is easily purchased on most cars and trucks without having them certified. I personally don't think that Certified Used vehicles are worth much of a premium over regular used vehicles. With any used vehicle, certified or not, I personally feel as though it is very important to have a knowledgeable , impartial individual check it out before you buy.

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CarMan@Edmunds

This actually looks like a great discussion to mention a recent media request that we had here at Edmunds.com. Here is what this particular reporter is interested in:

"- people that have successfully haggled for a lower price when buying a certified used car

- people that have met resistance when asking the cert. used car dealership if they can take the car to their own mechanic

- and people that have been persuaded NOT to buy the car they wanted because of comments on a chat board like Edmunds' Town Hall."

This reporter's telephone number and e-mail address are: 212-830-9275 and rmalkin@hearst.com.

Those who are interested in speaking with this person should please respond by March 15.

If you would rather go through the Edmunds.com Director of Public Relations to contact this individual, I don't see why that would be a problem. Her name is Jeannine Fallon and her e-mail address is jfallon@edmunds.com. Thanks

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vwguild

I can only speak to VW CPO Cars...couple of things need to brought up here...

Any VW that is Certified carries with a 2Year/24K
Mile Bumper to Bumper warranty.

In order to become CPO the car cannot have ANY non VW Parts.

The Inspection is extremely comprehensive secondary to the warranty, and verifiable...Inspection has to be documented in
order to get paid for the warranty work...

Any Dealer not permitting you to take the car to
a Competent Tech, does not deserve your business.

VWOA CPO cars also come with 2/24 Free RoadSide
Assistance...

Just a little additional info for the topic; so that it can be dealt with on a more informed basis...

millerro3

certified schmertified, right? yeah, ok riiiight, doesn't mean a thing, doesn't assure you of anything! BALONEY!

Oh yeah, I had a guy last week tellin' me he bought his last car that was a certified pre-owned BMW from some buy-here-pay-here lot. I spent half an hour trying to make him understand that it could not have been a BMW CPO. He insisted it was certified. Which dealership did you by it from? It's in Newark. There is no BMW dealership in Newark! It is not a CPO sir, the guy you bought the car from lied to you. No No, he offers a one year guarantee, he certified it wasn't going to break. Give ME a break I'm thinking.
The reason for this post was that he also couldn't understand why the price was pretty much set on the window, why he couldn't buy it for $6000(!!) less than what we were asking. I mean, the guy over in Newark dropped $4000 without even thinking about it. Well, sir, a certification DOES cost money, you will NOT be back in 6 months needing tires, or brakes, or pretty much anything that would compromise the safety or driveability of the car.
If we skimped on the checklist that we are SUPPOSED to do, and BMW NA found out about it, BAM! certification yanked, no more decent finance and lease rates, you're on your own with selling used cars which most people here know is one area that usually shows a profit. I can't believe that rroyce10 is implying that all CPO's just get a sticker slapped on 'em and thrown out on the line, it is far from the truth, at least where I work. And I doubt that we would ever change that, it's much much too much of a risk to just breeze through a car and put OUR certification on the car. Maybe that's how it works at Terry's dealership?:)) lol jk

vwguild

don't mean Newark? As in *Down Neck* do you? I
thought that store moved to Jersey City...:)

rbrenton88

I disagree to some extent with rroyse. I had a certified car which had to go to the dealer for some expensive repairs, covered by the manu, with no hassle. The cost of the repairs would have been several times the marginal extra cost of the certification.
Additionally, I have spoken with several dealers about specific models that came in from trades that they decided to wholesale because they weren't in shape for certification. So there is some genuine checking going on out there. I suppose it depends on the dealer.

abtseller

are checked out by the 128 point checklist. They actually check *everything* on the list. If the car passes mechanical muster (which usually means that it gets new brakes and tires as a minimum)then the detail shop manager has to check it from one end to the other and fix any imperfections in the paint or body. Of course our service dept. is #1 in the region, and we just got the president's award again, so they run a very tight ship. For the extra money, the certification buys you a years roadside assistance, and it bumps the powertrain warranty to 6-100K miles, which isn't too shabby for the cost. I'd personally buy one if I were in the market.

Now, our Chevy certification....well....an extra 3 months and 3000 miles on the bumper to bumper warranty...uh...

Also, I agree with the above. If a dealer won't let you take the car to your own mechanic, walk.

Ed

tydenmal

I bought a 99 Honda Accord LX and to certify the car, they charged me an additional 500+.

The odometer reading paper I had to sign was off by over 21 miles.

I asked for 2 new remotes and an extra key. The sales person said ok, this was part of the "negotiation". When I picked the car up, they keys were not there. When I went back a couple days later, he hinted that I should pay for them. Finally , He got me one new remote and one "valet" key. I didn't know about a valet key and he didn't tell me that that is what it is, I had to find out on my own.

My car was pulling to the right. So I assumed it needed an alignment. that day that I returned to the dealership, the Service Manager, gave me an outragous story about how to tell if I need a wheel alignment. I must have stupid written all over me. Anyways, after arguing w him they claim they did it.

During the same visit, I had to tell them to clean out the inside of the car, buff and wax it. This was supposed to be done before I picked the car up and it wasn't done. So they waxed it. The car still was not clean inside.

Same visit, my hubcaps suddenly became scratched up. I had to call the supervisor out to say that the car still is not clean and my caps are scratched. I got a rude cocky response from him and they had the caps replaced.

After the car was waxed, I noticed on my front right door, there was a touch up of some sort and nobody brought that to my attention, my concern with that is not even that the color doesn't match up, but that it will rust sooner because it wasn't done properly.

Besides the visit, my car still doesn't drive straight, they did something to it because its doing something different. I called back and made an appointment to see the same rude person in a couple days.

They didn't give me an owners manual. I had to ask for one because I assumed they would have put one in my glove compartment. They gave me a ripped manual for a 98 that has someone's car info on the inside.

I asked for copies of all of the maintence on my car that they have and the work that they are doing, I was told, "Hun, no problem" well it is a problem because they haven't given it to me yet.

Oh, did I say that my steering wheel was leather and it had damage to it and I asked for it to be repaired. Well their idea of that repair is to take the leather off of the wheel and tell you that it was fixed. I asked, is this leather, because it looks different. Well hun, they must have cleaned it and put armoral or something on it. I really wasn't sure so I said okay. But I confirmed last night that it is NOT LEATHER.

When the rude guy and I took my car for a test drive about the alignment, I asked did you guys even do a radiator flush, tune up or wheel alignment? He says "Why would we do that?"

The latest thing is, on my front right wheel base, there is some kind of plastic that covers the inside of the wheel base and its coming off of the car.

I spoke with the owner on Monday, he picked most of my concerns apart by the Honda Certification. At one point, I said, so basically you don't do anything to the cars unless it is required under the certification. He said no thats not what I'm saying..... obviously it was. He told me to go see the service manager and address my concerns with him and then the general manager. If they were rude to me before why wouldn't they be rude to me again. Is it acceptable for me to ask to watch them do the repairs or even do an "inspection". I'm very tempted to return the car except that I like the car, its the dealer not doing what they are suppposed to do. PLEASE GIVE ME SOME DIRECTION.

rivertown

I don't think you're going crazy. I'd expect a 'certified' car to be up to snuff in every way.

How you got into this spot is hard to figure. Maybe you bought an 'as is' car and hoped to have it upgraded by doing the 'certified' thing? The whole thing seems messy to me.

Were it me and were it really possible to return the car and cancel the deal (that being possible is very hard to believe), I'd simply return the car and start shopping again - being more careful to buy a car that's problem free.

If returning the car is not possible, you're at the place where I'd call Honda's Customer Relations Zone Office.

tydenmal

I already called American Honda's Consumer Affairs Department, not to make a formal complaint but to get some direction and advise. They took down most of my concerns and basically said, go back to the dealer and see what they will do.

If the car was sold as "as is" I don't believe anyone told me that. Do you know if it would be on any of the paperwork? I see now that the whole transaction was "MESSY" after speaking with the owner on Monday and speaking with American Honda. This has definiately been a learning experience. I'm prepared to call bbb, consumer affairs, attorney general and even local news stations if they don't deliver on the service. I guess at this point, I need some confirmation that I'm not going crazy. You should have seen the way they reacted to me when I had to revisit them that one time, 3 days after the purchase. You would think that I asked them to give me the car for free. Thanks for you response.... and if you come up with any other advise, I'd really really appreciate it.

18fan

Maybe you could try taking it to another Honda dealer. IIRC the certification is through Honda and not through the individual dealership, therefore, each car is required to meet the same standards in order to be certified. Perhaps going to another dealer & explain your circumstances and experiences, they may help you resolve the problems with your car.

rivertown

Cool, Tyden

I understand. That dealer 'tude is an art; if it works, you go away and they're set for another customer (LOL, another customer's wallet). You're not crazy.

I would think your paperwork shows the terms of your sale. I'd read that carefully. When/if push comes to shove, it's the paperwork that's gonna count.

I think what you do from here hinges on what you're up for.
If 'return the car and get your money back' is a real option, that's what I'd do.
If you're committed to keeping the car - because you like it a BUNCH or because returning it is not a real option, getting back to the dealer like Honda has suggested is right. Maybe, you'll get their backing if your probs aren't resolved. I'd make a complete list of the probs I wanted resolved - on paper, keep a copy. If you get another 'tudeful reception, that's when I'd escalate, i.e. call Honda again.

I'll say again, get out if you really can. I wouldn't want to keep a car serviced by these jerks. If you can't get out, get as good a fix as you can and then find another dealer. If your paperwork shows you have some real warranty rights, there's another dealer somewhere who'll be happy to have your business.

tydenmal

18fan-
I was told that if I went to a different dealer, I could be charged for the service. Do we know if I can go to another dealer and maybe ask them to check my car in terms of selling standards and warranty standards pertaining to the concerns I have with this car for free?

Also, I heard that there is a website that people can check on the dealer and see the complaints that are filed against them. Does anyone know this and can you please post it for me. Thanks.

jasmith52

You bought a USED car. Now say it out loud - USED.

It isn't perfect. No used car is. The certified just protects the power train which may include your pulling issue. It doesn't include little scratches and touch up paint.

Why didn't you examine the car before you bought it. And why did you pay for the car before it was cleaned up and met your standards.

You just had a life lesson here.

tydenmal

Rivertown-

Thanks! unfortunately my paperwork doesn't support most of the problems. Due to my ignorance, I didn't know that the salesperson was supposed to write everything down on a DUE BILL. When I spoke to the owner, he questioned the due bill. There is nothing on the due bill. On the purchase agreement, he wrote down, certified; repair damage/dent on wheelbase, repair damage on steering wheel. In terms of the proper 2 remotes, and extra key, etc. etc. there is no paperwork to support it. I didn't know that "maintenance" needed to be in writing. And I confirmed with the salesperson that most of these things would be done, verbally of course, and at this point I feel like they totally took advantage of me. I felt like I was prepared to go out a buy a car. I asked tons of questions and did lots of research.... I hope that the owner cooperates with me or I have alot of decisions to make.

tydenmal

jasmith52-

The car itself is okay. And its barely used. The service and maintenance is what is lacking. Maybe you don't understand my post! The salesperson agreed on terms verbally, they took advantage of me by not presenting me with a due bill and writing down everything that we discussed. I take part responsiblity for that simply because I can't expect a car sales person to do their job and then there was my ignorance about the due bill. The issues here are what the salesperson agreed to and the obvious typical maintenance, which also was agreed by the sales person. Now with that said, if you don't have any information that will help me get the results I want, or if you don't have facts, then don't reply jasmith52. You sound like someone from my dealership. I already have enough stress to deal with, I won't take yours on as well.

rivertown

Cool, Tyden

It's very good that you have that purchase agreement!

It sounds like you wanna mess with the dealer. I'd get back there ASAP with a complete list of stuff I wanted corrected, fill out and sign the repair order, and hope. I'd also call Honda again and ask them to call the dealer to facilitate the repair; an extra set of eyes on your situation can only help you.
Time isn't on your side here. Passing time means more confusion opportunity for the dealer about the original condition of the car.

jasmith52

I'll bet that your car is just fine and that the real problem rests with you. It sounds like you don't understand much about cars and have unrealistic demands on the dealership.

It has 100000 mile coolant that doesn't need to be changed )or flushed as you put it). The car has an electronic ignition and platinum plugs that don't need to be changed until 100000 miles. Cars don't need to be tuned up anymore.

I would also bet that they gave your car a road test and didn't observe the pulling that you refered to. If it did then they would have aligned the wheels. Is there any other signs of an alignment problem like unusual tire wear ???

I am so glad that I don't have to deal with the public in my job.

Get real !

tydenmal

When I took my car back in after 3 days, (I still had a car rental that I had a committment to pay in full, so I kept it and did not drive my car) When I told the service manager that my car is pulling to the right and I think maybe it needs a wheel alignment he said "how do you determine that its pulling to the right" well I have the steering wheel straight and I'm driving on a fairly staight road (they argued that no street is straight), and my car drifts to the next lane. He didn't believe me so I said lets drive it. He gets behind the wheel and goes onto the main road which is a major busy road, and drives at 15-20 mph. Then he goes one mississippi, 2 mississippi.......- about 11 mississippi. At one point I go okay do you see that or do you feel that its going to the right. He goes, yeah but it really should have drifted around or before 6 mississippi. I go well okay but everyone drives faster than you are, I'm sure if you drive faster or even the speed limit, it will drift on or before 6 mississippi like you want it to. He says well I can't go faster because then you'll feel that pulling back effect where it pushes the passengers back in their seats, and that would make the car drift one way or the other. I said well everyone drives faster than this and if this car will do what you just said then it sounds like it needs a wheel alignment. DO I HAVE STUPID WRITTEN ALL OVER ME! There is nothing different or slated about this street than any other generally straight street. My 91 Acura drove much better in terms of straightness and when it didn't I got a wheel alignment, once and the problem was solved.

They claim they did the alignment and the car is not doing what it was doing but, its still not driving straight. And that is generally why I'm going back in. After that outragous story, I don't trust them. Besides the fact that they lied to me about my leather wheel.

Go ahead a justify their story to me.. Now lets get real!

andre1969

...a 100K mile interval for spark plugs, even if the owner's manual calls for it. My '00 Intrepid has platinum-tipped plugs that called for a 100K interval, but they still needed to be changed around 51K. It's all going to depend on your driving style, climate, etc.

While it's certainly true that maintenance intervals are much longer nowadays than once upon a time, I think that they're actually pushing it *too* far with some of this stuff!

jasmith52

I bet they didn't. Maybe the car needed an air filter and ran a little rough. Or maybe you got sucked into the "maintenance scam" that many a dealer/shop perpetuate.

Platinum plugs and electronic ignition don't degrade like the old copper plugs did. I bet you could really go 200000 miles (or more) on them before their was a real problem.

The maintenance in the owners handbook is set pretty conservatively.

rivertown

Tyden -

Trust your gut on this! Get as good a fix as you can and then get to another dealer.
Dunno about you, but I tend to hope/think I'll find the key to getting reasonable treatment in such circumstances. More often than not, honor and professionalism show up early or not at all - regardless of what I do. Jerks is just jerks.

Good luck!

andre1969

...I take my car to a local mechanic who's been around for decades. I've been dealing with him for about 14 years, and have never been steered wrong.

In my case though, that first 51K miles was a lot of short-trip stop and go driving...I used to deliver pizzas. That could be an easy 100-150 miles a night of nothing but stop and go driving, short trips, hopping in and out of the car 20-40 times a night, etc. I'm sure that might've helped foul up the plugs quicker than if that 51K miles was just commuting back and forth to work every day.

Same with the tranny fluid. I have it changed every 30K miles, even though the owner's manual says 100K for light duty, and 50K for "severe".

I now have about 77K miles on it, and do still have the original antifreeze, belts, and hoses! So I'd think if my mechanic was going to lie about the spark plugs, he'd lie about the antifreeze and other stuff, too!

As for the air filter (and pcv valve), I just do that stuff myself, about every 15K miles.

atlantabenny

Looks like things are coming to a boil; here's something to consider: If your "certified" warranty is good for many more miles and your car is safe to drive, consider "lying low" for maybe a month. Tell the dealer you'll drive the car during that period to confirm your observations and then come back.

If your complaints aren't documented yet, email or write them a letter about the unresolved issues and keep a copy. That'll freeze the status "at the time of cooling-off."

This has the effect of removing the dealer's defensiveness, and will give you time to hatch a different strategy.

Return with a friendlier, collaborative approach and let them know your confirmed observations of the car. This tells them you've given the car and the dealer the benefit of the doubt. And if the defects still exist, they'll probably be in a better mindset to go the extra mile for you.

If the problems still aren't addressable, quietly pick out a suitable substitute car in the lot and propose a swap. With some good old politicking and diplomacy, an equal or better solution might just happen.

18fan

Try calling some other Honda dealers in your area... make sure you speak to the Service Manager, not just the service writer who answers the phone. Explain your situation & that although you did not buy the car there, you believe that it may not be up to the standards of a *certified* used car..... and..... that you have been unable to get any satisfaction from the dealer where you purchased the car. Ask if they will inspect the car (at no charge).... INCLUDING THE ALIGNMENT.... to see if it meets the standards for a certified used car.

I agree with the others that the certified warranty covers engine & powertrain components and therefore, the scratches and paint touch ups are most likely not covered. Review your paperwork to be sure.

tydenmal

atlantabenny-

That is a good approach. The problem is, the only mechanical problem seems to be the steering, which to some extent is covered under certification.

The rest of the issues are more service related. Who would want to buy a Certified 99 Honda Accord LX at 44000 miles and say 1000 or so miles down the road, you have to get a radiator flush or some other costly maintenance done on the car.

Maybe that person who responded is right, that the maintenance on these cars happen at 100000. Maybe not! So, now if I need "maintenance done on the car 2000 or more from now, the dealership should do the maintenance for free? Wouldn't this be a defect of some sort if it wasn't supposed to be done for another 50,000+ miles. That doesn't sound realistic to me. Especially the maintenance at 100000+ miles. Just venting...

I like your alternative, asking for a different car. I might try that, but again, I don't trust them, atleast I will have a clearer understanding of what I need to know to do the transaction right. But would I have my car serviced there in the future..... Probably not. Thanks. that is a good idea....

atlantabenny

Best I know, here's what to expect from a certified car with an extended warranty:

1) That the car is "certified" and that it has an "extended warranty" means that the "extended warranty" aspect carries the ball for you. To qualify for an extended warranty, the car had to first be certified and that's where the importance of "certified" essentially ends. Once certified, the warranty provider foots the bill for anything that goes wrong outside of regular maintenance.

2) I had an Accord of your generation and if my memory serves me well, timing belt (and maybe the water pump to take advantage of the associated labor) replacement is required at around 60k miles depending on "severe" or "normal" driving. This is regular maintenance and may not be covered by your particular warranty just so you know ($300 approx.).

3) Having said all that, the state of your car at the start of the extended warranty is the reference by which all future warranty work will be judged. For example, if the door paint looked perfect at purchase only to peel during the warranty, then it should be covered by a bumper-to-bumper warranty (and not if it's just drivetrain warranty). Or, if the paint flaw was pre-existing, you & the dealer took note of it and you purchased the car anyway, the warranty would not cover it.

3) At the very least, your car for $500 would have the drivetrain warranty. Thus, the dealer/warranty provider should cover you for any drivetrain defect that shows up after purchase.

4) If you keep the car, make sure maintenance service is up to snuff so they don't give you problems with warranty work.

tydenmal

Does anyone know if I have a legal right to return this car in the state of New York, after 13 days, including today.

I really like this car but I won't be stuck without what was initially discussed/negotiated/approved. Besides that, I can't trust these people. I haven't been able to speak with a person at the dealer who can answer this for me. So, LEGALLY, i need to know if I can do this. I will try to be fair, and as a last resort I will ask about trading the car for another. But if all fails I need to know what my options are before hand. Thanks.

2099

I think you need to first find out whether your used car was "certified" by Honda of America or "certified" by Joe's Honda. Big difference. My son-in-law bought a used 1999 Toyota "certified" by Toyota and had a semi-major problem after two months. Dealer where he bought it tried to blow him off, he went to a different Toyota dealer and they fixed the whole thing, gave him a loaner, and made everything right. If his Toyota was "certifed" by Joe's Toyota, he would have been up the creek. So find this out first and in the future don't read so much into this certified stuff. The certified is only as good as the person/company backing it up. Just my .02 worth. Good luck.

mfullmer

Normal maintenance is what the Manufacturer recommends on a routine basis. Steering alignment, paint blemishes, new keys/remotes, etc. are NOT maintenance items.

What kind of real maintenance items did they agree to and not perform?

bretfraz

There is no state in the union with a "right of recission" law on their books for auto sales. This is an ancient old wives tale that was never really true for *anything* except for door-to-door sales.

rubicon52

I think what may be an obstacle in your discussions with the dealer is your anger over being lied to. This is understandable. I would feel the same way.

I've had two disputes with car dealers that I could not resolve myself. Both disputes were resolved by a short conversation between the owner of the dealership and my attorney. Not saying this works all the time, but it has worked for me and was not all that expensive. One advantage that my attorney had is that he does these things for a living and is able to leave emotion pretty much out of it.

atlantabenny

tydenmal, here's my take on your intended actions:

Returning your used but warrantied vehicle amounts to invoking the "lemon law" as in the case of new cars.

Following this principle, the car must be accepted by the warranty provider for an exchange or refund only if the covered defects cannot be corrected.

Therefore, it looks to me that documented reasonable effort must have been exerted to correct the defects before a return/exchange can be done.

What this suggests is

1) Observed defects covered by the warranty must be reported to the servicing dealer
2) Whether the dealer acts or not OR the defect/s is/are corrected or not, that fact must be documented with as much detail as possible
3) If your legitimate complaints aren't satisfied, take action against the warranty provider (who is probably different from the dealer) to correct the defects and/or replace the vehicle
4) If warranty provider doesn't act appropriately, your next recourse is legal action

We can see from above, as noted by 2099, that a lot hinges on the integrity of the warranty provider.

New car warranties are, logically, underwritten by the carmaker but used car warranties are mostly issued/underwritten by independent companies. Dealers who sell used cars with extended warranties BUY the warranties, tacking on the cost to the price.

The dealer and the warranty provider, in all likelihood, are therefore 2 separate entities with the dealer playing the role of servicing the warranty.

Essentially existing as insurance companies, these warranty enterprises have the law of averages as their businesses' foundation and will try to control warranty costs to stay in business.

Some insurance companies are better at settling claims (which warranty work is, essentially) than others. A mediocre warranty company may not settle at all.

Given the foregoing, I would bat for a "goodwill exchange" of the vehicle if you're not willing to go through the process of warranty settlement.

Lastly, if you have CARMAX in your area, they'll do a free, thorough check on your car to determine its real worth. In the end, they might say "actually, with all its flaws, it's a car worth keeping." I've had it done myself, and they call really put your mind at ease (or in turmoil if the car was really bad).

jasmith52

Has it occurred to anyone that there may be NOTHING wrong with the car. Look at what the dealer did trying to please the customer.

1) Road test and Alignment
2) perform all manufacturer specified maintenance
3) wax job
4) new hubcaps
5) keys

blah blah blah

who determines if the car is in alignment (the customer) ??? Or the Tech who performed the alignment.

Has it occurred to anyone that NOTHING will ever please some people.

I also have the following observations

1) The customer paid for a rental car for 3 days. Now how much would it have cost her to take her car to a tire shop for an alignment. Maybe half to a third of what she paid ???

2) The American way - If you don't like the outcome then sue. What have we come to in this country. By the way won't a lawyer charge $300 an hour to file a complaint. Take your car to an independent shop for an alignment and have them check it. If it's way out them send the bill to the dealer. I have my suspicion that the car is just fine and it is the customer that is being unreasonable here. Notice that the customer was ignorant of the maintainance required of the car and made unrealistic demands of the dealer.

Maybe the dealer should sue the customer !

rae52

The easiest way to "solve" your problem is to visit Hondas' web site. There, they show a 'complete' itemized list of what every honda MUST meet in order to be certified. Hope it helps you understand what they did or did not do.

Richard.

zueslewis

other than a few inconveniences and miscommunications, the only real "problem" with the car was that it pulled to the right. Guess what? IT SHOULD! The crown of the road, which allows for rain runoff, makes the car pull slightly to the right, just like you described.

tydenmal - I don't think you're stupid and I don't think the service guy thinks so either; i just think he's dealt with more car alignment issues than you have.

"Certified" does not mean "perfect". I worked at Lithia Honda, Medford, OR when Honda started the certified used thing. They check it over, flush the brake fluid, change the brake pads (if needed) and that's it - all that is more than the average used car gets. Your basic warranty is also extended and you get roadside assistance.

NONE of those factors deal with a scratch here or there, because it's a used car.

The anti-car business troops have rallied to your defense, for what? If you bought a new car, you'd have something to complain about.

Jim

hansienna

Skip a "Certified" used car and buy a new one with the factory warranty. While there are many honest dealers who will honor their dealership warranty, the manufacturer will always honor the new car factory warranty.

zueslewis

warranty IS the manufacturer's warranty - the dealer doesn't provide warranty coverage at all.

It's HONDA certified, not dealer certified.

steine13

This is another crisis you tell us about here at edmunds. following the trials and tribulations of buying a sienna, maybe, and how you "could make the dealer" sell it to you for a certain price.

i looked for your email address to send it directly, but there isn't one in your profile, so here goes:
the dealer doesn't sound terrible, more like your classic i'll-say-what-you-want-to-hear type. if all this stuff is so important to you, why didn't you have the car checked out by a good mechanic? if you're this picky, why not buy a new car? why pay the $$ before it's all set to go?

if you ask them for the records, and they say, "sure hun", what do you think you'll get? in all likelihood a slip for the one oil change they know about. where the heck are they supposed to get the records from? if they were ever there in the first place, they likely got tossed on the way to the auction. what is the guy gonna say, gee, ma'am, we rarely have records for the cars we sell? it's so much easier to say, sure hun, no problem. don't make it right, but hey, it worked...

this isn't rocket science, but it requires some leg work to get it right. here's the pattern: you find the car you like, you get your valuation at RWTIV from Terry or Bill, you make your deal, you take the car to have it inspected (never optional, don't care if it's $1400 or $14,000), you have everything done to it that you require, THEN you pay the money.
any deviation from the pattern is asking for trouble.

imagine i go to a biker bar and yell "you guys are sissies!" i will get beat up. it's wrong, they are criminals, but don't i have to blame myself, too?

do you see where i'm going with the analogy?

-Mathias
East Lansing, MI

isellhondas

To every story, so it's impossible to determine what has happened here.

All cars will drift to the right if the steering wheel is released.

Accord LX's do not have a leather steering wheel cover.

Some people should NEVER buy used cars. They demand perfection and it isn't going to happen.

tydenmal

Or maybe some sales people should find another line of work when they promise perfection because it goes through certification or simply because they offer empty promises.

When someone says they are going to do something I hold them to their word. I work to hard for my money to let someone short change me when it was something already promised to me.

I'm going back to the dealership to see what they are going to do for me. I spoke with the owner and so far in discussions, it looks like he's trying to me half way. Its better than nothing I guess.

I came to this board for advise. If I wanted to be critized by car sales people I would have went to the dealer and let them talk down to me like they have. I'm not looking for your input. I'm looking for the input of the regular people who come to this site for info and advise and who have been in similar situations. If you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all. I won't stoop down to your level, again if I want to engage in nonsense, I will call the dealer, they're good for that.

isellhondas

And who promised "perfection"? If, indeed, they did promise the car would be "perfect" shame on them! No used car can ever be perfect.

You sound like a very bitter and hard to please person but perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe the dealer is 100% at fault and mistreated you horribly.

I think I said...there are alwasy two sides to every story.

I also said, all cars will drift to the right on most roads.

I also said Accord LX's do not come with leather steering wheel covers.

I am a "regular" person who comes to this site and I do wish you well.

And, it's a hard fact. Some people should only buy new cars and not used.

Good Luck!

tydenmal

isellhondas-

I was directing my comment to those on this thread that seem to think that because you buy a used car, you should should expect nothing. I paid a couple of pretty pennies for this car, and yes the sales person did say "don't worry about it hun, everything has to be absolutely perfect, we sell quality cars and we are certifying it for you, thats what certified means." Boy was I stupid to believe him... This person comes out with all kinds of huns and sweethearts in their normal talk. Seemed to be a sweet person. If you want to go out an buy a used car, and let them tell you that they are going to do something or add something, but they don't and that's okay with you, then go ahead, but that's not me. You don't seem to understand, like some others here, these are things that were "negotiated", discussed and approved before money passed hands. Yes, I take some responsibility for my ignorance, I should have been blunt and said write it all down and sign it. I didn't think that was necessary because they are HONDA, not joeshmo down the street. Believe I learned my lesson. Don't trust car sales people make sure you understand all of the paperwork and make sure they are filling it out right. You basically have to know their job and do it for them. Unless someone has something helpful to say in terms my receiving some decent customer service, this concludes this thread for me. This is not directed only to you, isellhondas.

bobst

It sounds like someone has learned a good lesson. Another thread with a happy ending.

mfullmer

This poster was NOT looking for advice for their situation, obviously. I saw lots of advice concerning purchasing a used car. Advising someone that "A used car is not going to be perfect." and "Just because a car drifts to the right, doesn't mean it's out of alignment." and "The things you are quoting as "maintenance" aren't maintenance at all." are all ADVICE.

What this person was looking for was "Shame on that bad dealership!!! He should give you everything you ask for."

It always amazes me that people post on these boards claiming to seek "advice" when what they are really looking for is confirmation of their emotions or view about a situation.

Websters definition of advice:

"Opinion about what could or should be done about a situation or problem; counsel."

Most of the "opinion about what could or should be done about this situation" was centered around the poster and not the dealer so, since that wasn't what they were looking for, they didn't see it as advice.