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Waxes And Polishes
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Detailfreak - thanks for the heads up on the Multi-7. I have not used it on anything else since then. The taupe leather seat in my Riviera did not get discolored for 2.5 years after I used it. I guess because I washed that stuff off right away and used conditioner.
Too bad about the chip, but only one is a minor miracle!
chances are the touch up on a brand new car from VW will be the right color.
Make sure the chip is cleaned out, and if it's not to the metal (if primer is showing) then try filling in the chip carefully with a toothpick or, some people have luck with a paper match sharpened with a razor blade. Lay in the paint slowly, making sure it gets into all the corners if any.
(if metal is showing, you might want to consider using a primer. I belive primer "touch up" is available.)
Do this in layers and take your time. Don't try to fill the entire chip all at once. Let the paint set up between coats, but try to do it in one day if possible so more dirt/water doesn't get into the area. If the area has gotten wet/dirty, try cleaning it with a paint prep you can buy at any auto paint supply store, use a soft brush to work into the area and use compressed air to clean (not TOO high a pressure)or a hair dryer. (be careful not to get the dryer near the open prep bottle, and wipe up any excess before getting the hair dryer near the spot!)
Chances are the second bottle is clear coat. So once you have the edges filled to the point you can't see anything but black, put a couple layers of clearcoat on top till the spot is filled to just over surface. Let the area dry and see if it shrinks (probably will). Fill again with clear to make it even or slightly higher.
here is where it gets tricky for me. To make the best repair, you should sand the area, but it's easy to go too far, and the paint should be fully cured, let it sit for several days. Chris seems to have lots of paint experience, I would think he could guide you in this area. First though, see if you can live with the chip as-is. Might be better to let things be and not sand.
For older chips, it is usually a good idea to sand the area first to make sure you have clean paint to apply touch-up too. Otherwise, the first rain storm or winter snap, the paint can pop right back out.
Don
It never hurts to drop by the body shop and ask. Who knows? You might be lucky and find them painting another car of similar age and exact color so they don't have to prepare an actual batch for you.
mentioned? Is it those spider-web like "scratches"? (not really scratches, just looks like that) Seems like it's below the surface, beneath the clear-coat? What causes that, and should it appear on a new car? How can I fix, or do i have to take it to dealer? Thanks for any info!
Some new cars already have orange peel. Speaks about their paint quality.
Go to it here
Collinite was much better than I thought it would be. Zaino, well, Zaino rocks like limestone
-- Dale
Now, what is the reason? The naked paint surface itself (without any wax now I suppose), attracts dust? How about the water spots on the glass? How do I make it repellant to the spots?
Finally I can start with my Zaino and Clay stuffs in a couple of days! Can't wait to try it out...
Hope it does solve all the problems I mentioned above though...
I've heard that many touch-up paints are formulated to NOT require clear coat. That is, they've designed it to match the surrounding, already-existing paint, so it is glossier than the paint underlying the clearcoat, obviating the need to apply clear coat onto the touchup paint.
Ever hear this?
I already know to use liquid soap, wash in hot water, and never to use fabric softener.
Wow, you really got serious w/ THE TEST - thanks! What you posted was super. (Liked the humor, too.) I couldn't tell any difference in the shines. Both looked great.
As far as effort for both, which took more TIME?, and which left you more TIRED?
Look forward to your follow-up posts.
(PS - how difficult would it be for a beginner to form a web site on www.geocities.com ?)
I get to use my Spot Free Wand for the first time this weekend, the cold front has passed through (no hail this time :-) and I will be claying both of my vehicles for the first time. Yay! I won't Zaino yet since both cars get to have hail damage repaired and I don't see the point in doing the z thing twice in a short time. It'll just have to wait till they get back from the shop.
My wife is shaking her head at me, but she figures as expensive as all this is getting it is still cheaper than a gambling habit.
Bri
College Station, TX
I'll let you know the results after the paint arrives at the dealer and I can see it. Meanwhile I'm going to drive the car by a local detailer and body shop to get his view.
More later!
Great idea, and thanks for everyone. It is hard to photo reflective tests. I could not really tell the difference between the two sides. Maybe a good photo light meter could be used. Or maybe place an object such as a bottle (with printing on it's label) on the hood to try give the viewer a better reference when trying to judge reflective quality. Again, thanks for all that work.
Just use a little glue
Now how about a test to see if Turtle Wax is worse than any of them? (Just kidding.)
Sebarge - The zaino took longer, only because most of the time was waiting for 3 layers of polish to dry. But removal is easy. The Collinite had only one layer to dry, but taking it off was a pain. And making a web page isn't very hard at all. You should give it a try.
pblevine - Great idea, I'll try the bottle on hood reflectivity test next time (in a few weeks)
joecaro, needavan - Again, thanks for the positive comments.
The temperature here is from 24 to 32 Celcius (75.2 F to 89.6F), and the humidity is above 80%.
What is the shortest period of span must I allow?
Thanks.
If however, I did these 6 coats a period of 6 weeks or so, will it have the same effect or benefit if I were to do it within 3-6 days?
A rose by another name would smell as sweet.
etc., etc.
It works, don't worry about what it is called. (Also, don't confuse polishing compounds with polish, or wax.)
Pretty much the same results I got, hope there is less "fuss" over yours!
I am continuing my own test. Took my 66 GP for a nice long ride during the warm spell last week. I had let the car sit in my garage uncovered for two weeks and no noticable dust was on either side (cold/wet weather must have kept dust down because my garage isn't that well sealed!)
After the drive, I could see a fine layer of dust on both sides, with zero difference. Outside I saw no difference in shine/reflectivity. (For those new to the discussion, I put one coat of Collinite on one half of the hood, and the other side got Z-1,Z-3,Z-6,Z-3,Z-6...note this is non-clearcoat so Z-3 is the recommended product).
On my 89 SHO (clearcoat) I put Collinite on one side of the trunk (had plenty of fine car wash scratches from previous owner) one coat after cleaning and Zaino on the other side (Z-1,Z-2,Z-6). No difference in shine/reflectivity. This is a daily driver and since putting on the products, the car has had two wand style washes and one full service wash total miles about 2000. Both sides still bead the same, look the same and feel almost the same with Collinite having a slight edge in slick feel.
BTW, the rest of the car has Collinite that is about 4 months old, still beads well and looks great. (Disclaimer...after Using Collinite for several years and after starting on this discussion, I decided to sell that product in my business, this is a disclaimer, not a solicitation.)
About Zaino being a polish. Polish and Wax are used quite often for the same thing. Traditionally polish contains abrasives or at least is what gives the finish a shine. Wax usually does not contain abrasives and should not really add to shine, but protect it. In the world of products/advertising, you must just read and find out what each product really is, no matter what they call it.
Zaino has no abrasives according to the manufacturer, but is called a polish. It does add shine, but in this case it also claims protection and seems to do a good job. The multi-step process is too much work for some, but a labor of love for others. Once a good Zaino finish is applied, it appears from comments here that it's easy to maintain. As spring arrives in my area, I will get a chance to fully use the many Zaino products I purchased to see how they work for me.
About the 24 hour wait for Zaino....., the manufacturer says it's OK to take off after 30 to 40 minutes. As long as you can wipe a finger on the surface without it smearing it's OK to remove. (in dry weather/low humidity it can dry well in under 20 minutes in my experience) Some here (and the manufacturer) say there is a benefit to waiting 24 hours, and in my trials I find no problem with waiting that long. Some products, left on that long (especially in the sun) would be a disaster. My current favorite, Collinite, works best if removed after each panel, not waiting for it to dry totally. REmoved this soon, it comes off just slightly less easy than Zaino. Zaino still comes off easy if left for many hours or overnight. I have not tried leaving it out in the sun, nor do I know if it's recommended. The Zaino web site does not seem to address this. I would not want to do it, but maybe others here know if sun baking is bad with Zaino? I mention this because some people may not be able to leave their car in a garage for a day or more waiting for Zaino to "cure".
Don
"About the 24 hour wait for Zaino..... manufacturer says it's OK to take off after 30 to
40 minutes. As long as you can wipe a finger on
the surface without it smearing it's OK to remove.
(in dry weather/low humidity it can dry well in
under 20 minutes in my experience) Some here (and
the manufacturer) say there is a benefit to waiting 24 hours, and in my trials I find no problem with waiting that long.""
Don-
You have completely missed the point of Wstang's question. He is not talking about dry time before wiping the Zaino off. He is talking about the waiting time BETWEEN coats of Zaino. It is recommended to wait 24 hours between coats, to let Zaino "cure" for lack of a better word. Ie, once the Zaino is REMOVED you are suppose to wait 24 hours before applying the second coat.
Wstang- I think I recall Sal or Chris saying that you can apply a second coat of Zaino in as little as 8 hours, given the temperatures that you have described. Good luck.
As for the "test"...great job Stuffonarock! Not really and major surprises. Remember, the Carnaube based product will indeed repel water VERY well INITIALLY! The oils they use to give the paint its shine help do that as well, I believe. What will be interesting is to see how the Carnauba based product LASTS in the real world. That great shine you see now, probably wont be so "great" in a few weeks! Also, I am curious about the dust accumulation on each side, as every carnauba based product I have used attracts dust like a magnet! Zaino, when using the Z-6, really seems to repel the dust. With your black paint, you should be able to see the dust pretty clearly.
Rob
Charlie
Call Sal Zaino to find out if there is a dealer in your area, or just order direct from Zaino.
Don
Before this conference, I thought detailing was "magic". I guess that is what I think about everything in life that I'm completely ignorant about. And the folks you are talking about are ignorants who go to Kmart and buy that name brand wax that they've seen advertised for years, and slap it on haphazardly, like you said. This conference is making an effort to eliminate that ignorance, and unfortunately, take away a good chunk of your business
Chris and all other pros here, don't you fear you're giving your livelihood away? Thank you, by the way :~]
Finally it is my turn to try out the Zaino products. I dawned, clayed and dawned again.
The claying process doesn't really help much. The bar after claying is not very dirty. It was just as smooth (or perhaps slightly better) before claying. Perhaps I didn't do it the correct way? But I believe I did. Spray the lube onto the surface, and rub the clay with slight pressure on an area for 2-3 times. That should be no drag. Correct?
Then I apply the Z1. That was easy, and really so with the Custom applicator. Out of curiosity, I tried the "Bottle test". The bottle slip right off the momment I placed in on the bonnet. After which I applied the Z5.
The first time, I applied the Z5 too thickly subconciously while trying to make sure that every part of the car is covered with Z5. It took me 20+ hours for it to dry. Even then, some smearing still exists. I am not sure if that is "smearing", or just the residue of Z5.
I applied Z6 shortly after buffing it off 24 hours later. Applying Z6 is easy. Removing it is very easy too. Leaves no marks, residue or whatsoever when buffing it off. The shine is greater, and the reflection more sharp and clear after applying it.
I applied the next layer of Z5 (this time real thin, and with Z6 already on, it seems very easy to spread a thin layer), and after removing it, apply Z6 again.
So that's it. Only 2 coats at the moment. But the shine, and slickness is really awesome. I cannot testify for the "durablitiy" of the products yet. Only time will tell.
Now, I have some queries following the initial application.
(1) Removing the Z5 is not as easy as I had expected from reading the posts. I had expected to be able to remove the Z5 simply by moving the towel lightly over it. Instead, I have to apply some pressure to get them off, and buff a few times on a region. Is that the right thing to expect? Or I have the wrong impression? How much pressure is needed to remove Z5 or Z2? And can I really expect just one flow of light buffing to remove them completely?
(2) The second time I applied Z5, I applied it real thin. I am worried that it might be too thin, therefore not having the effect of covering up the swirls. How much of Z5 or Z2 should one apply? Say for the bonnet of a typical car. I applied thin strips on the applicator twice for the whole bonnet. Too thick or too thin? What should be the proper proportion?
(3) Under normal sunlight, most of the swirls are gone. However, last night while parking under a lamppost, the reflection of the light bulb of the post is surrounded by swirls. Can these be removed by Z5? Or it's simply impossible? As I said, under normal conditions, most swirls are gone. How many layers of Z5 are needed? I thought normally 2 to 3 would suffice?
(4) In what way is Z2 different from Z5? What can I expect when I switched to Z2 say after 3 coats of Z5? As it is, now the shine is awesome. Is Z2 able to give more shine, more slickness?
Thanks.
Saw your posting some time back on having a spray bottle mixed with Zaino in the boot of your car to remove any bird droppings, road tars, dirts and so on.
What is the proportion of Zaino and water that is used to fill up the bottle?
Thanks.
Thanks!
Tom
You did the clay right. Not every car has major paint problems. Shipping methods, your local environment and the roads you drive on/speeds etc all make a difference. If the paint feels smooth, then you don't need to clay again. More use or more pressure won't really make any difference.
When it comes time for another major detail a few weeks/months down the road, it won't hurt to clay again, and you probably won't be able to tell the difference, but it's good insurance.
I think your problems with the Z5 came from putting it on too thick. Also the humidity and temp has a lot to do with drying time. If it smears, it's not dry yet.
Most people put on WAY too much wax or polish product. You want just enough to cover a small area with no gaps or streaks. Only try to do a one or two square foot area at a time. Put just enough product on your application pad to do the job. Apply the product in a few small dabs in the inner portion of the pad. If you put much on the outer edges, you just encourage filling-in of joints and cracks, and you are "pushing around" the product instead of working it in.
Did you spray Z-6 on the application pad before putting on the Z-5? I found this to be a good tip that makes application of the various Zaino products go much easier. Of all the Zaino products, I like the Z-6 the best. I found it also works great on plastic dash gauge lenses.
Don
It didn't work very well. In fact, I am fairly sure I had MORE water spots than I normally get washing a car and letting it dry.
I think I may have done something wrong such as not letting it 'charge' enough. The instructions say to run it for five minutes; I did that on each car so by the end of car three it had been really used. Car three had the worst spotting. It was also in the shade, car two was in the sun.
I figure it may just be my water (very high sodium here) so the wand just may not work.
Oh well. JC Penney is having a sale on huge white fluffy 100% cotton (with the square cotton emblem) towels so I bought some and will just dry the car after washing it.
If I can't get the wand to work, does anybody need one?
Bri
College Station, TX
I will probably wash every month or two with my home pressure washer followed by hand wash. Don't really give a hoot about the perfect wax/polish (it's a plain jane truck). What do you all recommend from the mass merchadizers that I could wax/polish with a couple times a year?
Sorry your spot free wand didn't work. I bought one also but didn't have time to use it yet. The company states it has a two year warranty on it. I suggest you e-mail them and tell them about your problems with their product. It would be interesting to find out whether you get a refund from them. Please keep us informed.
Polish the Silverado ASAP. The paint is baked on at the factory, so it doesn't need to wait. As a Zaino convert, I really couldn't give a mass-market recommendation.
Dave
Some of the marks can be removed by just running a small piece of tissue over, buffing it slightly a few times. However, if the grease is too much, then this way can't remove it. In fact, it merely spreads the grease across the surface.
Is using a piece of tissue as mentioned above fine? If not, then what should be the proper and easy way to do this (other than using Z7 and Z6)?
Ah, young skin.....I have worked on engines/paint/detailing for so many years, I couldn't leave a fingerprint if I tried!
I would NOT use tissue paper or paper of any kind on your paint. Tissues may feel soft to the nose, but they are rougher than soft cotton diapers or towels by a long shot.
Z-6 is the recommended way to get rid of fingerprints and ultra fine dust for touch-ups. A regular wash is recommended for anything "dirtier".
If you really don't want to use Z-6 or Z-7 then just buff with your towels, but try to remove dust with a separate towel lightly before using a perfectly clean one to get the fingerprints.
Meguiar's Quick Detailer, if available in your area, is an excellent product to get rid of fingerprints and very light dust. used with soft cotton towels/diapers. Doesn't leave streaks, dries without lines etc, but still, with Zaino, I would stick with Z-6.
Don
What should I buy to wax/polish the plain jane white truck
Thanks for the advices and recommendations. How is your test with Zaino (the one using Z2 instead of Z3 on a clear coated car) getting on? It would be good to be posted of your findings...
Chris,
So I just mist the Z7 and water solution onto the paint surface and wipe off whatever dirt with a towel? Do I have to rinse it with water?
As you have seen, there are many here that love Zaino, I know there are some that have tried it and were left either neutral or negative. Meguiars Gold Class in the paste version has worked well for me as well as Collinite carnuba. I like Collinite best so far, I am still getting used to Zaino and waiting for better weather to give it a full car try.
Go to the Zaino site: www.zainobros.com to read more about their various products and how to use them.
Marbuck,
Zaino will work for you fine of course, but so will several other products. Since you seem to be a "minimalist" type of person, multi-step products may not be what you want, so if you haven't tried Meguiars Gold Class paste, it goes on easy and comes off easy and works very well on both clearcoat and regular paint.
wstang,
go back a few notes, I did post the most recent "results" which are pretty much what another person got that did the same test, he posted pictures and results on a web site that is fun to visit and well done.
Don
My van was built in January and hasn't been washed yet, except by the dealer. It has accumulated quite a bit of dust. I used a garden hose to rinse off the worst part of the dust, but left behind was a coating of fine dust that seems to cling to the surface by static electricity. It comes off easily if I run a fingertip through it, but low-pressure water won't wash it off. So, my question is, how do you experts get that fine dust off before you wash your vehicles? If the dust stays put after I wet down my van, and I start washing with a towel while the dust is in place, it seems to me that dust is going to scratch the finish in the act of washing it.
Another question: I've never used clay before. It seems to me that contaminants the clay removes from my finish will necessarily remain embedded in the clay. What's to keep those contaminants embedded in the clay from scratching the finish as I rub with it? If the lubricant prevents scratching, I don't see how there could be enough friction to remove contaminants from the finish in the first place.
Last question: The lubricant that came with the Clay Magic says it's a lubricant and polish. Is that stuff OK to use when I'm using the Zaino system? I know I need to Dawn again after the claying, so that would remove whatever "polish" is in the lubricant before I Zaino, right?
Thanks for your input.
Also, used to use Rain Dance and was pretty happy on a non clear coat finish.... that ought to get people going.
Anybody ever heard of Liquid Glass polish? Good or bad? Old codger buddy of mine swears by it on his street bikes.