They swapped out the wheels from a Golf TDI, same 17" tires and same everything else so they should be no problem here. Thinking they either need to swap out the tires for a different set or swap out the alloys from another TDI and see if things change as getting the stock 17" alloys is not something I'd ever agree to. There has to be a solution here and they need to find it which I am sure will happen tomorrow. Learned long ago to stay stock on everything wheel and tire related. Knowing that the TSI model I got and the TDI had 17" wheels on them, knew we could do the swap and no one at VW said it was not doable. They definitely will fix this issue!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Thanks. I just added the one I usually use. Now I just need a map of places with automatic air pumps. Just set the pressure and the pump fills your tires to the target pressure. They were all over the place in St. Louis and usually cost $0.75-1.00, but I haven't found one near home in Chicago yet. I'll pay $1 to use one of those and not have to mess with the manual gauge.
That would be nice - haven't seen it but I like the idea of Nissan's system where the horn beeps when the tires are at the recommended pressure. My eyes aren't good enough anymore to easily read the gauges, and I'm too cheap to go buy a fancy led one with big numbers.
Just wondering if any other Edmunds drivers have had experiences with the new Nokian WRG3 SUV tires? Ones on my Forester are about 5 months old, seem to run fairly quietly and withstood some nasty bumps despite the idiot installers inflating them to 50 psi (I reset pressure to mfr. recommended levels once home). We've not had enough snow or ice yet to test winter traction (are supposedly superior to WRG2's and far better than the stock Bridgestone Duelers).
This is what I bought to check tire pressure. Much easier than the digital gauges and just as accurate. Very easy to use since there is a bleeder valve. Just overfill the tire, then bleed out air till it hits your target. No back and forth. It also never needs a battery - powered off of air . The face glows in the dark so you can use it at night.
I have a 2014 Mazda 6 with about 15700 miles on my tires. Two weeks back I hit a curb on the right side while exiting a parking lot. Since then I hear a vibrating noise mostly between 20 - 45 MPH. Took the car to my dealer and firestone, both told me that there is mild cupping on one of the tires. They told me that unless I get the tire replaced there is no way to eliminate the noise. I got all suspension parts checked (everything is good) and got my alignment, balancing and tire rotation done.
So is replacing the tire the best option? I was really advised against this since the tread is good.
@explorerx4 - yes I still think that this may not be a tire problem at all.. I will get another mechanic to take a good look at tires and all suspension parts...
I did switch the tire with spare just to test and it seems that both the mechanics were right... there was no noise after I removed it. I also noticed that pressure had dropped to 20s on the tire.. I think the best option is to get it replaced...
Had to replace the oem tires on the kid's '08 Accent the other day, put on Falken performance passenger tires and they look pretty meaty. Think they have a 50k wear life but with only 20,100 on the vehicle so far, not to worried about this since she don't drive that many miles per year, around 3k/year. Oem's were starting to crack and they couldn't be rotated anymore and with a road trip planned for tomorrow, was time to just do it. Got a 4 wheel alignment, brakes cleaned and adjusted and a new battery, and she's good to go. Besides oil changes/rotations and wiper blades, first time we've thrown any money at the vehicle since we bought new back at the end of 2008. Great little vehicle for the money and we hope to get many more years of good service from it.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Cupping causes noise (loud hum or whine) but I've never heard of it causing a vibration you can feel. It's also very odd that your tires would cup on a car with such low mileage. This suggests maybe a weak strut or other suspension part in the area of that particular tire.
Cupping causes noise (loud hum or whine) but I've never heard of it causing a vibration you can feel. It's also very odd that your tires would cup on a car with such low mileage. This suggests maybe a weak strut or other suspension part in the area of that particular tire.
shreyasrajan had one tire that showed cupping. It sounded like it was caused by running over a curb and some piece of the suspension was damaged leading to the cupping. I would have moved it front or back and seen where it was the quietest, tried higher or lower air pressures, and driven it to see if it gradually smoothed out.
Or I would look to replacing the tires in pairs on the front or back axles to get rid of the damaged tire.
Since shreyasrajan has leaking air, possibly from the bead, slowly lowering the pressure, I'd want the tire store to carefully check the rim for being out-of-round or corroded. I don't know that I'd replace the tire.
If the tires are 4-5 years old, the rubber may have aged and hardened making the slight cupping more noticeable. I had Michelins that were 6 years or so and thought I had a bad hub bearing. Shadetree neighbor rode in car, jumped out and ran his hand over the tire and felt the uneven tread due to slight cupping. Hard tread plus cupping equalled noise. He used to manage a tire store at an early point in his automotive work life.
You're right...a tire can certainly be damaged from running over a curb. Cupping, on the other hand, occurs uniformly around the entire tire, so I don't think curb damage would be related.
Curb damage could affect the alignment - and the alignment could cause cupping.
And, yes, it has been known that cupping can affect vibration, after all, noise is a higher frequency vibration.
Lastly, it is pretty common for folks to use "cupping" to describe wear patterns that are caused by alignment. Technically "cupping" describes a type of wear caused by an out of balance tire or a bad shock, but hardly anyone uses it strictly to describe that condition alone.
Update - I did change the tire and the noise still persists though not as intense as before... I am really stumped... the tire guy says all tries and rims are good.. Mazda and Firestone told me that wheel bearings, alignment and all suspension parts are good... I have already spent a good amount of money on this without a solution... makes me a wonder if one of the rims is slightly bent that they it was not detected in balancing or might be a simple case of a loose panel underneath....
the really strange part is when I did a test run with my spare, there was no noise!
Update - I did change the tire and the noise still persists though not as intense as before... I am really stumped... the tire guy says all tries and rims are good.. Mazda and Firestone told me that wheel bearings, alignment and all suspension parts are good... I have already spent a good amount of money on this without a solution... makes me a wonder if one of the rims is slightly bent that they it was not detected in balancing or might be a simple case of a loose panel underneath....
the really strange part is when I did a test run with my spare, there was no noise!
Then I would agree there is a problem with that specific wheel and/or tire.
First, make a note as to which corner you think the noise is coming from. Then rotate the tires - front to rear is easiest - then note which corner again. If the noise moves, you know which tire/wheel is the problem. If the noise doesn't move, you know which corner is the problem.
It is possible there is more than one tire that was making the noise.
It is also possible that the tire/wheel is vibrating slightly and causing something in the vehicle to vibrate - so changing the tire was not the total solution to the problem.
One of the problems with tire wear related issues is that the nomenclature is all over the map. It is very common for folks to use "cupping" to mean any kind of irregular wear, including "feathering". Plus, it is pretty difficult to determine the difference between wear caused by a bad shock or an out of balance tire/wheel assembly and wear caused by poor alignment. I've seen fairly knowledgeable people flub that one.
True, the general public confuses the terms but tire experts can tell the difference. In feathering you'll feel a very sharp edge on one side of the tire, as if it had been dragged sideways. Cupping is a very definite series of depressions or divots going all way 'round the tire. The cupping is often related to suspension because of how the tire is pressed and released constantly on the road surface. Alignment issues almost always give you wear on one side of the tire but not the other.
then there's the issue of under and over inflation, which has its own set of wear patterns.
Tricky to read, yes and sometimes the wear patterns are not so definite as to make a solid conclusion.
I'm going to followup on the above post with a bunch more detail - too much for a single post. I'll do this in steps so everyone gets an opportunity to comment before we move on. Here's the first one:
....... In feathering you'll feel a very sharp edge on one side of the tire, as if it had been dragged sideways. ........
You can also feel a sharp edge Heel and Toe Wear. Usually the symptom is noise or a vibration.
Heel and Toe Wear is when the wear on a tread element is low to high (leading edge to trailing edge) and is caused by applying torque to a tire for a long period of time - drive tires. It's a natural consequence of using a tire to propel the vehicle forward.
When a tread element (especially a lug) enters the footprint, it is deflected backwards, which wears the leading edge. As time goes on, this wear progresses along the tread element.
Too much toe in on the vehicle will aggravate the condition - as will under-inflation and insufficient tire rotation. Aggressive tread patterns are more prone to this condition.
The fix is to rotate the tires and live with the noise and vibration until the wear pattern changes - which may take a while.
The difference between Heel and Toe Wear, and Feather Edge Wear is the cause - and there is a slight difference in appearance. Unfortunately, usually there are multiple problems and distinguishing between the 2 types of wear is kind of a moot point.
I think some of the service writers at chain store operations throw out these terms without fully understanding them, further confusing the public. Part of an upsell, if you will. The important thing is that if you don't diagnose the cause of the unusual wear on your tires correctly, then the new tires will suffer the same fate.
I agree that proper diagnosis of tire wear is important, but most of the time, alignment is the issue. Tires and wheels are made to much tighter tolerances than they were a generation ago, basically eliminating that as a potential source of wear issues (and cupping wear is the only type of wear an out of balance tire and wheel assembly will cause).
On the other hand, a bad shock can cause cupping wear, because the shock is damping out the unrestrained oscillation tendency of the spring.
There is a term we use that hasn't been mentioned, combination wear. Cupping is usually caused by the combination of several conditions. Once it starts on a tire there is little that can be done to reduce it or prevent it from getting worse. Some vehicles are more prone to the condition than others and a lot of that has to do with the camber specifications. We see a lot of cars that use a negative camber, around -0.7 degrees. The problem is the manufacturers allow +/- 1.0 degree before any adjustments are required, that means a car with camber angles of -1.5 degrees on it's axles doesn't get corrected even though that overloads the inside edge of these wider profile tires that are typically used today. That negative camber has a plus side in that the tires are more aggressive when cornering and afford better traction, but that also equals wear that will be increased.
For some of the cars that suffer this wear choosing a tire that doesn't have lugs or sipping on the edges of the tread can help. We use a rectangular eraser to demonstrate what the tire lugs do while driving. Stand it up on end and then press down while leaning it slightly and you will see it deform just like the tire does. Now if you slide it you'll easily see that the wear is much faster on the loaded edge.
Don't waste your money on those goofy sounding tires. You will go through two or three sets of those compared to a good michelin, goodyear, bridgetone or continentals . Tires is the one place that you spend a little more, and you get a lot more.. Who wants to have tire trouble on a road trip, or any drive for that matter.
I look at the max tire pressure and run the tire 8 pounds lighter. My tires always wear perfect, no cupping or irregular wear.
This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.
This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.
Correct. A tire should be pictured as a column of air that is holding the vehicle up. The cold inflation specs aren't arbitrary numbers, there is a lot of experience and engineering going into the calculations that are used to arrive at the specification. Isn't it funny that someone else can come along and just guess that some other pressure would be an improvement because of some arbitrary reason?
This is a terrible way to determine what inflation pressure to run. For example, passenger car tires can have a max pressure of 35 psi, 44 psi, or 51 psi - and those numbers are all arbitrary.
Correct. A tire should be pictured as a column of air that is holding the vehicle up. The cold inflation specs aren't arbitrary numbers, there is a lot of experience and engineering going into the calculations that are used to arrive at the specification. Isn't it funny that someone else can come along and just guess that some other pressure would be an improvement because of some arbitrary reason?
It's not an isolated occurrence, though. Over the years, we've had dozens of members that based their PSIs off of the MAX inflation pressure indicated on the tire..
I am open to comments from those in the business about my tire pressure method. My leSabres have had 30 PSI as the pressure on the door recommended by GM for comfort as well as safety and tire wear. I usually run 32-34 cold pressure on front and 32 on rear. I use quality tires, Michelins only (Harmony now Destiny), and have not had any complaints about wear patterns by the regional dealer who does the rotations and rebalancing.
If I'm leave for a trip, I often put tires up nearer 35 front and 33 rear. 225x60x16 tires.
For the '14 Malibu with 33 as recommended pressure on Goodyear LS2, I used 35 front and 33 rear. Car is lighter in rear and didn't have much baggage on the last trip so it was relatively light.
I have no problem running a couple of psi (cold) over the door placard, as long as it's less than the max on the tire. But, as said above, the max on the tire has nothing to do with proper psi, it's just the max.
I only deviate from the tire placard when I'm trying to adjust the balance of the car with respect to understeer/oversteer. On the track I usually run a few pounds higher- depending on the temperature or the old reliable sidewall chalk method...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Over the years, the way inflation pressures were determined has changed. Older vehicles used fairly smallish tires and really benefit from using a few more psi, where the newest cars have decently sized tires and the benefits of increased inflation pressure aren't needed..
Over the years, the way inflation pressures were determined has changed. Older vehicles used fairly smallish tires and really benefit from using a few more psi, where the newest cars have decently sized tires and the benefits of increased inflation pressure aren't needed..
Well.. that all depends on how fast you are going...
Have noticed my VW Golf is sensitive to over inflation...rotated tires recently and the tire icon came on because they were over inflated. Once they were adjusted down to specs, light went off and all is well. My first vehicle with the tire monitor thing but if it keeps the tires healthy, am all for it. Have Continentals on it now and am betting they are a bit pricey...not sure what I'll do when the time comes to replace them. With just over 6k on the clock, have some time to ponder this issue.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
How to rotate the tires on my Cobalt 2008 sedan? I learned the tire store rotated them by going front -back keeping the wheels on the same side. The GM manuals always have the rears crossed to the front and the front tires going back to the rears on the same side.
The tires are Michelin Destiny tires. The store said if there's no unusual wear showing, they keep the tires rotating the same direction.
How to rotate the tires on my Cobalt 2008 sedan? I learned the tire store rotated them by going front -back keeping the wheels on the same side. The GM manuals always have the rears crossed to the front and the front tires going back to the rears on the same side.
The tires are Michelin Destiny tires. The store said if there's no unusual wear showing, they keep the tires rotating the same direction.
What do the folks here say?
I don't like crossing sides, just front to back.. but, my cars are really sensitive to wear patterns, etc...
All-season tires, non-staggered, on FWD vehicles? I think you can do just about whatever you want, when it comes to rotation. (but, even then.. I only went front to back.. lol)
I'm due for new shoes for my '09 Grand Caravan. The van came with Michelin Primacy MXV4 (225/65R16s) and we've put about 40, 000 miles on them. Got ~4/32nds but they don't look all that good. But they've been better than other Michelins I've had, although it's been a long time since I had Michelins.
My last two sets of tires on our last minivan and an Outback were Nokians WRG2s. Really liked them, but they are hard to find. And they may be overkill for our arid climate.
Continental TrueContacts have been recommended.
These 80 to 90,000 mile warranties (800 Tread Wear) kind of bug me. I want a quiet ride and don't want to ride around on hard tires when the van isn't likely to be driven more than another 30,000 miles, if that.
Got a Costco card but the closest store is an hour away and I'd rather just get something local. I'm not going to rotate them much anyway....
Dunno, should I look for another 500 AA tire instead of an 800 AB?
The tire guru I use and have gotten any number of (different applications) tire sets, has them (they are well regarded) on his personal ( minivan) vehicle . There are a lot of if,&'s, buts, vs the (very well regarded) Michelins. If price is an important consideration, this is a current good choice.
Thanks, Discount Tire has a store brand that's probably the same tire, but I think I'll go with the TrueContacts. WallyWorld stocks them, not sure where else yet.
The 500 tread wear Primacy's are the first set of Michelins I've liked in forever. The reviews aren't great at TireRack - figures.
I'd go by Tire Rack's extensive reviews to find the best of what you are looking for. They have a lot of data compilation and a seemingly high feedback rate from their customers.
'15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Comments
Learned long ago to stay stock on everything wheel and tire related. Knowing that the TSI model I got and the TDI had 17" wheels on them, knew we could do the swap and no one at VW said it was not doable. They definitely will fix this issue!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Free air.
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DL6T2YK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Added to my wishlist.
So is replacing the tire the best option? I was really advised against this since the tread is good.
P.S: link to original post: http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/comment/5088257#Comment_5088257
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
piece of the suspension was damaged leading to the cupping.
I would have moved it front or back and seen where it was the quietest, tried higher or lower air pressures, and driven it to see if it gradually smoothed out.
Or I would look to replacing the tires in pairs on the front or back axles to get rid of the damaged tire.
Since shreyasrajan has leaking air, possibly from the bead, slowly lowering the pressure, I'd want the tire
store to carefully check the rim for being out-of-round or corroded. I don't know that I'd replace the tire.
If the tires are 4-5 years old, the rubber may have aged and hardened making the slight cupping more noticeable. I had Michelins that were 6 years or so and thought I had a bad hub bearing. Shadetree neighbor
rode in car, jumped out and ran his hand over the tire and felt the uneven tread due to slight cupping. Hard tread plus cupping equalled noise. He used to manage a tire store at an early point in his automotive work life.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And, yes, it has been known that cupping can affect vibration, after all, noise is a higher frequency vibration.
Lastly, it is pretty common for folks to use "cupping" to describe wear patterns that are caused by alignment. Technically "cupping" describes a type of wear caused by an out of balance tire or a bad shock, but hardly anyone uses it strictly to describe that condition alone.
the really strange part is when I did a test run with my spare, there was no noise!
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
It is possible there is more than one tire that was making the noise.
It is also possible that the tire/wheel is vibrating slightly and causing something in the vehicle to vibrate - so changing the tire was not the total solution to the problem.
Well if the spare eliminated the noise, then there you go---you have a tire or balance problem, or, as you say, a wheel issue.
then there's the issue of under and over inflation, which has its own set of wear patterns.
Tricky to read, yes and sometimes the wear patterns are not so definite as to make a solid conclusion.
Heel and Toe Wear is when the wear on a tread element is low to high (leading edge to trailing edge) and is caused by applying torque to a tire for a long period of time - drive tires. It's a natural consequence of using a tire to propel the vehicle forward.
When a tread element (especially a lug) enters the footprint, it is deflected backwards, which wears the leading edge. As time goes on, this wear progresses along the tread element.
Too much toe in on the vehicle will aggravate the condition - as will under-inflation and insufficient tire rotation. Aggressive tread patterns are more prone to this condition.
The fix is to rotate the tires and live with the noise and vibration until the wear pattern changes - which may take a while.
The difference between Heel and Toe Wear, and Feather Edge Wear is the cause - and there is a slight difference in appearance. Unfortunately, usually there are multiple problems and distinguishing between the 2 types of wear is kind of a moot point.
On the other hand, a bad shock can cause cupping wear, because the shock is damping out the unrestrained oscillation tendency of the spring.
For some of the cars that suffer this wear choosing a tire that doesn't have lugs or sipping on the edges of the tread can help. We use a rectangular eraser to demonstrate what the tire lugs do while driving. Stand it up on end and then press down while leaning it slightly and you will see it deform just like the tire does. Now if you slide it you'll easily see that the wear is much faster on the loaded edge.
Some of them, you just can't convince, otherwise.
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If I'm leave for a trip, I often put tires up nearer 35 front and 33 rear. 225x60x16 tires.
For the '14 Malibu with 33 as recommended pressure on Goodyear LS2, I used 35 front
and 33 rear. Car is lighter in rear and didn't have much baggage on the last trip so it was
relatively light.
Comments?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
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The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The tires are Michelin Destiny tires. The store said if there's no unusual wear showing, they keep the tires rotating the same direction.
What do the folks here say?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
All-season tires, non-staggered, on FWD vehicles? I think you can do just about whatever you want, when it comes to rotation. (but, even then.. I only went front to back.. lol)
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I get 40k to 50k out of each set of UHP all season tires, so that rotation pattern works for me.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2020 C43 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
On a FWD, the front tires wear about 2 1/2 times faster than the rears. On a RWD, the fronts wear the shoulders, while the rears wear the center.
Cross rotating is nice in that you can eliminate the side to side differences, but those differences are small compared to what happens front to rear.
My last two sets of tires on our last minivan and an Outback were Nokians WRG2s. Really liked them, but they are hard to find. And they may be overkill for our arid climate.
Continental TrueContacts have been recommended.
These 80 to 90,000 mile warranties (800 Tread Wear) kind of bug me. I want a quiet ride and don't want to ride around on hard tires when the van isn't likely to be driven more than another 30,000 miles, if that.
Got a Costco card but the closest store is an hour away and I'd rather just get something local. I'm not going to rotate them much anyway....
Dunno, should I look for another 500 AA tire instead of an 800 AB?
The 500 tread wear Primacy's are the first set of Michelins I've liked in forever. The reviews aren't great at TireRack - figures.