Paint and Body Care

pblevine · February 2000

Nice car! Look closely at the scratch to determine if it goes down beyond the paint to the metal or primer coat. If that is the case, then you will need a paint/repair job. I know how you feel. It happened to me too.

If the scratch only goes to clear coat, then claying or Zaino may do the trick.

By the way, I had a real pro do my paint job (big scratches on the door), and the results were perfect.

etalon · February 2000

My wife pulled her 2-week old Camry in contact (not very hard at all) with the guard rail in a parking lot. There is now a small paint damage on lower part of the front bumper. The spot is about 1/8'' by 1/4'' in size and both the pearlcoat and base paint are gone showing the black material (is it fiberglass or some other plastic?). Also some white paint from the guard rail is visible around the edge of this spot. I've got the color-matched touch up paint from the dealer, but I don't know how to repair it (if possible at all)so that it does not expand to ruin the surrounding paint in the future.

In advance, many thanks.

PS It's hard to believe the original paint on this car is so flimsy!

rs_petty · February 2000

There is a "how-to" posted at the carcareonline.com web site that will give you some indication of what is involved in repairing a chip or scratch. I think the article may be a little overboard for normal cars but the process is pretty straight forward. Prep the surface, paint, smooth, polish.

ronniepooh · February 2000

..and avoiding swirls/scratches/etc.
Note: This has worked for me...thats all Im saying.

1)Washing. I use a 100% cotton towel-type thing that is wrapped around a sponge. I use a small amount of car wash, but lots of water. I use front to back strokes only on the hood, roof, and trunk. top to bottom strokes on doors/quarter panels/fenders. (This eliminates any swirl scratches)

2)Drying. I use the California Water blade. Fast and simple, and has never caused a scratch.

3)Waxing-Meguiars liquid cleaner wax. I use it sparingly, (I do apply it in a circular motion with a buffer bonnet (100% cotton) that I have, but I apply it by hand)let it dry completely to a haze, then remove it (in a circular motion) with an old 100% cotton Haynes t-shirt.

TO each his own...but the above has worked for me. Minimal spider web type scratches , and high gloss is what I always have.

FWIW

pblevine · February 2000

Etalon,

That scratch goes all the way down and the only cure is paint. The question now becomes do you just do a 'touch up job' or repaint the entire bumper.

Given that your car will soon be in contact with other terrible things (dogs, cats, fences, other cars, etc.), I'd use a little touch up paint for the present. After you have 'collection' a whole bunch of little 'marks', then I'd have the entire bumper re-painted. Either way, it is really a matter of personal choice. Good Luck - I've been there.

projectzx3 · February 2000

recently got my car back from my dealers body shop. (its a long story but suffice it to say i had the car one night and was involved in an accident that was not my fault). sure enough i inspected the car closely before i took it home from the body shop. Since we have had alot of snow etc around here... thus road salt and dirt...lots of it. Today i washed the car to get all the salt and dirt off of it. I then noticed 'smudges' or 'shadows' along the right side of the car....the hood and left fender area was where the paint work had to be done...not where the shadows were. I called my brother and asked him to come over and take a look. He said it looks like overspray. You can actually feel the difference in the paint... its not smooth like the rest of the car. It was only visible at certain angles and in the direct sunlight but its definatly there...all up and down the entire right side! The car is navy blue. My brother says not to worry. That the body shop wil be able to get the imperfections out without major action. I on the other hand am skeptical. Has anyone got any thoughts? I called my body shop and they said they'll try to squeeze me in later this week. Anything you all would recommend trying by myself? thanks.

vivona · February 2000

Best way to remove overspray is with automotive detailing clay like Clay Magic or Erazer. It will remove only the overspray and not touch the original paint at all. Do not let the body shop use polishing compound or anything else that can abrade the original paint off.

Search for topics with the word clay for more than you ever wanted to know about using it.

pat455 · February 2000

To find information about clay, look at this topic (see all responses) and also do a Search using the feature at left on wax. Most of the wax topics that are returned will have some discussion about clay. Once you have loaded the entire topic with "see all responses", you can use the Search feature at the bottom of the page to find posts about claying.

This might be time consuming, but there is lots of information to be had if you have a little patience. :-)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

mhemmer · February 2000

Does anyone know where on-line I can find touch up paint for my 1999 Honda Odyssey?
michele

projectzx3 · February 2000

well i just finished talking with my body shop mgr. he inspected the car and was very apologetic.
i am to call him thursday and confirm my appt. for monday. he said they will wet sand the car. is this the same as using 'clay'? i'd appreciate any further input.

ejy · February 2000

Try your dealers parts department.

rs_petty · February 2000

No! Wet sanding is not the same as claying. Wet sanding is the use of very fine sand paper (1000-2000 grit) with water followed by successive levels of polishing compounds. In the hands of a very good professional it can produce good results; in the hands of anybody else it will produce disaster. Clay is not abrasive. I guess you have to rely on your body shop to know what to do based on your situation. I personally would try clay first.

projectzx3 · February 2000

ok, i want to try the claying. i am reluctant to trust a body shop that released a car in that condition. i mean lets face it i can't make the overspray any worse... right or wrong? they can always wet sand it on monday if my claying it doesn't work. are there certain guidelines/conditions such as temperature etc. that i need to know? do i have to do the entire car or do i just clay where the overspray is? how long should i expect this to take? also can i get any of the clay locally or shipped in time for me to do it prior to the weekend? i looked at the erazer site.. any recommendations.

graphicguy · February 2000

If you have a Pep Boys near you, go there and ask for "Clay Magic". They usually have it in the "Wax" dept. Weather should have no affect (can't comment on what to do if it's raining).

e-mail me with any questions at graphicguy@yahoo.com

daverose · February 2000

"Are there certain guidelines/conditions such as temperature, etc. that I need to know?"
Just think of how clay you may have played with as a child feels and is affected by temperature and weather. Cold might tend to make it less easy to use.

"Do I have to do the entire car or do I just clay where the overspray is?"
You don't HAVE to do the entire car, just the area you're interested in affecting.

"How long should I expect this to take?"
Once you've washed the area, five minutes per square foot would seem about right. I would wash the area afterward, too.

"Also, can I get any of the clay locally or shipped in time for me to do it prior to the weekend? I looked at the erazer site.. any recommendations?"
Beside Clay Magic, Mother's also makes a claying kit; should be available off the shelf of auto parts stores in the soap/waxes/polish area. If you call any stores before you go, the generic question to ask is if they have any "detailer's clay." You want to be sure that, if you have a choice of types, do NOT get clay with abrasives in it.

I'm betting you will be surprised at how easy claying is and the resulting greater cleaness of where you use it.

graphicguy · February 2000

Just a followup...it's up to you whether you want to clay the entire car or not. I would start where the overspray is first, however. Follow the directions that comes with the clay and "rub" the clay with the lubricant (which should also come in the box) over the overspray until it becomes smooth.

rs petty is right...wet sanding is much more "invasive" to your finish than claying. wetsanding actually removes some of the clearcoat/paint to make it smooth. After the wetsand, they usually have to reapply clear coat over the affected area (at least, this is what I'd make them do). That said, depending on the severity of the overspray, wetsanding may be the only way to go. you might want to ask your body shop to try claying first before they wetsand.

vivona · February 2000

I can add that my wife's car got overspray from a commercial building painter. The car was completely covered with white speckles. The painter's insurance company gave us $200 to have the car wet sanded. I didn't want to do that because that would have taken off some of the original paint.

We cleaned it off the glass with a razor blade and chose to live with the bumps since the car was also painted white. Eleven years later I found out about clay. Before claying, you could still see and feel the overspray roughness. After claying the car was so shiny smooth I was amazed.

I would have never believed that getting off the overspray could be so easy. The car looked better than new!

I say claying is your answer.

Mr. Vivona

br459 · February 2000

I just bought a nice Sentra that is white with an atrocious looking blue pin stripe. I can't stand to look at it. I was wondering the easiest and safest way to remove it without damaging the paint.

Thanks in advance!

graphicguy · February 2000

I'll assume that the pinstripe is "taped" on. If so, take a hairdryer and heat the tape stripe. Start at one edge and as the stripe heats up, the adhesive should loosen. Carefully, start peeling the tape off, heating each section as you go.

After removal, you may have some residue left. Go to your nearest autoparts store and buy some detailers clay (like "Clay Magic"). Follow the directions that comes with the clay and "clay" the adhesive residue off.

Let us know how you make out.

ship2 · February 2000

I have really appreciated all the comments on cleaning, claying, and waxing a car's surface, but does anyone have any comments on the best way to clean tires and rims?

rs_petty · February 2000

has some tips, but if it is just dirt then I use the same wash (what's left over from the body) on the rims and tires. For tires, a little bleche-white and a medium stiff brush works well, but use sparingly especially if you have alloy wheels. The Wal-mart type wheel cleaners should work if you need more help on the wheels, but I wouldn't use it regularly. The best technique is when the wheel is clean put a coat of wax on them. Cleans a lot easier.

projectzx3 · February 2000

well i tried claying. it took me a while to get the hang of it... i was kind of afraid i'd ruin the paint. but guess what? the overspray on my right rear fender is gone. it looks great! feels nice and smooth too! when i get a chance i'll complete the process on the other overspray areas.
thanks everyone. i used mothers brand clay and detailing spray.

daverose · February 2000

You did not write that you followed up your claying with a rinse, or wash and rinse, drying, and application of protectant (wax or non-abrasive polish) to the area you clayed. Once you've gotten it "clay clean," you want to preserve that work with a protective coating. So if you haven't, ...

projectzx3 · February 2000

yes i did re-wash the area and then applied mothers extra mild cleaner wax. i was just so happy with the results i forgot to mention it. if there is something else i should do please post. i feel so good about the way the car looks now.

xwray · February 2000

This may not be the proper topic (if not, what is?) but I was wondering what folks do to keep their engine/engine compartments clean. What magic potions do you use that won't corrode electrical connections or otherwise harm the myriad of electrical devices found on modern automobiles.

rs_petty · March 2000

I use Simple Green and a parts/paint brush. Just brush it on, work on spots as needed and rinse. I've not high pressure washed in years because of the electronics, but figure the garden hose can't be any worse than water sprayed up from the road in terms of moisture seepage. SG seems to do a good job on oil and gunk and is biodegradeable so should be ok for driveways, etc... Also use it for wheels/tires.

fbattle · March 2000

I bought a $6 bottle of "electric red" metalic
touch up paint from Ford to fill in a couple of
spots where the paint has been chipped away (1" by
1/4" area). Paint codes match. When it dried, it was noticeably darker than the factory paint. I read in Haynes to let it cure for two weeks and then use rubbing compound to blend it with the factory paint, then wax it. The compound and wax didn't help. It's still too dark. Any suggestions?

joe166 · March 2000

If you mixed the paint completely and followed the directions then it is one of two things--either the paint on your car has faded slightly from exposure (quite possible), or the method of applying the paint makes it impossible to match. Obviously, the amount of paint put on by a brush is much thicker than with a spray gun. On a small dot that is not that significant, but 1/4" by one inch is pretty big to be touching up. I think if it is worth it to you, I would go to a good body shop and spring for the money to sand it down, prime it, fill the chip and spray and blend the color (a really good painter can probably, but not always, match slightly faded paint by eye).

sunfire99 · March 2000

Yesterday I put a couple of scratches on the right side of my car. I rubbed up against some shrubs at the bank, didn't know I was even near the shrubs.

I went looking last night for something to get rid of the scratches because they're not deep. I went to Wal-Mart and found some really good stuff that I would recommend. It's called GS27 Scratch Remover. It came in a 5.3 oz. tube and costs $9.97. It worked great!

pat455 · March 2000

Yes, we've discussed that product here if you'd like to see some other opinions of it.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

sunfire99 · March 2000

Pat I went there and was surprised that most of the people didn't think it works. Maybe they did it wrong. It worked for me so I'm happy.

curt3dfx · March 2000

What's the best product to use on glass and rubbber in terms of protection and durability?

Is it possible to put something on the glass so water will sheet away and also provide some protection against little dings in glass?

Is silicon spray good for rubber?

Sergeich · March 2000

I use 303-Protectant on rubber.
I bought some STP Glass Treatment but have not applied it yet. I want to clean the glass first.

What is the best glass polish?

rs_petty · March 2000

There are some specific glass polishes available - Griot's list some. For good cleaning, try Bon Ami or a paste made from Cream of Tartar powder and water.

Sergeich · March 2000

Where can I find Bon Ami?

And who is Griot?

I just got an idea. Do you thing that toothpaste should work?

atlantic · March 2000

Help! My problem is similar to posting #282, but I read the topic on GS27 and do not want to try that product.

I have a fairly-new dark color car with clearcoat. Has several scratches, ranging in age (from few days old to 8 mo. old), visibility (thin and clear to thick and white) and depth (mostly smooth, but can feel some fingernail). I know I won't be able to remove the white, thicker scratches. Just hoping to work on the lighter ones.

What is the best scratch removal product? I'm overwhelmed by all the messages in "Wax and Polish" related topics and can't decide. What is the time period for working on improving/removing scratches? (i.e. can I do anything about 6+ mo. old scratches?) I don't have a driveway to work on the car and would like to know how long I can wait?

thanks!

rs_petty · March 2000

Bon Ami is a general household cleaning powder. You should be able to find it at any grocery store. GM actually has it recommended in the owners manual of my wife's Lumina. Griot's Garage is a mail order auto enthusiast supply. They are on the web. Topic # 754 (www.griotsgarage.com). My dad use to use Pepsodent tooth powder to clean the canopy on his P-51. Same concept as Bon Ami. I don't think the paste would work.

pblevine · March 2000

Pardon my 'Zaino' point of view, but I may have some usefull info. here.

The best combination of stuff I have found thus far for my windows and especially the front windshield is:
* Apply Zaino's Glass Polish
* Clean with Windex
* And protect with some Zaino Z6 Gloss Enhancer.

re scratches: If the scratch only goes into the clearcoat and not down to the base primer or metal, Zaino's Z5 'Swirl Remover' should do the trick. If the scratch goes past the paint, then there are two cases to consider: 1. Touch Up Paint with the same color/formulation (from your car dealer), or 2. Repainting the affected area via a good detail shop.

rs_petty · March 2000

Anyone with experience using an air brush for chip repair. Techniques, process, better than touch-up brush?

mheeren · March 2000

We just bought a dark green Mazda 626. We're in Florida where fading has been a real problem for us in the past. The dealer has a $200 dollar coating he'll put on the car. Obviously the coating's not worth that much, but it does come with a 5 year warranty against damage due to bugs, tar, bird droppings, and UV fading.

Should we buy the protection, or just use a good wax and keep the car clean??

Thanks

joe166 · March 2000

Entirely up to you, but I bet the fine print will require you to wax the car (or worse yet, have the dealer wax the car) at specified intervals which will basically mean that you are putting on the protection which will prevent everything that they "insure" against. I would rather keep the money and wax my car myself, as I enjoy washing and waxing so I can keep track of minor dings, etc.

graphicguy · March 2000

There have been huge advancements in paint and paint applications over the last 5 years. The paints of yesteryear were subject to UV fading much more than they are today. Current paints are very resistive to fading (even in Florida). Dealerships know this. I'm certain that the profit margin is quite large for the dealership on this. As Joe166 mentions, look at the fine print on the agreement. I would bet a dollar to your dime that there is some sort of clause that stipulates you have to bring the car in for some sort of re-application at some point.

I have yet to see any system that dealers sell that is any better (and sometimes worse) than a good washing and coat of wax by the consumer. Dealership applied wax isn't any better than what you can buy on the open market.

Some due dilligence on your part in taking care of getting bird droppings, tar, bugs, etc off your car will actually go a long way in keeping your paint finish looking good. There are actually some waxes out there that will resist any of these things sticking to your finish.

In addition, I wouldn't want the dealership to apply anything to my paint. Mostly, they don't put these waxes with the best of methods and can scratch (or swirl) your paint in the process. You, the owner, can probably do a better job.

Good luck! Most on this thread can give you some good recommendations on some of the Waxes we find to be very good. Let us know!

jhuang76 · March 2000

I've noticed a huge boom in new, non-silver, metallic paints. How do they last? Do they exhibit excessive UV fading, swirling, ... etc? Also, I'm looking at a sunburst gold Ford Mustang. Anybody hear, or experience, any paint nightmares (w/ any of the new metallic paints on Fords)? Thanks.

pokeyjoe17 · March 2000

I have a WHITE 99 chevy s-10 with 10,000 miles on it. I have washed the truck every week when the weather is nice and every two weeks in the winter It is usually done at a do it yourself carwash with the power washer -- I never use the brush and I bring a clean if not new soft sponge with me. The finish had a good coat of wax before the winter. As I was cleaning the hard to get places, I noticed small "rust color" specks on the lower portions of the body panels. They are so small that you have to really look. There is quite a bit scattered throughout the body - mainly on the lower areas - so I assume that it could have been caused by something being kicked up from the road.
I tried to rub some of them out with a detailer/cleaner and a terrycloth towel but it didn't do anything. The paint is perfect so it appears to only be in the clearcoat. I hope someone can help me.

BTW The truck is in northern Illinois where salt is placed on the roads, but I am very diligent to wash it frequently.

AND- My friend has a white Mercedes with the same problem

I just found this discussion so I apologize if this topic has been covered.

graphicguy · March 2000

It sound like a clear case of either "rail dust" (the metallic dust that adhered to your finish while transporting your vehicle by train) and/or metallic dust that is is thrown off of metallic brake pads. This shows up much more on a white car than any other color. The "rust colored specs" are exactly that. Teeny bits of metal that are adhering to your finish caused by the above.

Best prescription is to "clay" your vehicle. There are many different types of clay. Go to your local PEP Boys or NAPA and ask for detailers clay. One brand I've used and like is called "Clay Magic". Follow the directions that come with the clay and your problem should be solved.

Let us know how you make out.

brentskic · March 2000

I'll be Zanoeing a new car (LS) for the first time this weekend in AZ, and I think I understand the sequence sufficiently, but one remaining question is the wheels.....

For those using wax on wheels to avoid excessive brake dust deposits, how many of the standard dawn/clay/dawn/z1/z2 steps are required for wheel treatments? Do you remove the wheels to get the etire wheel depth covered? Seems like this is a little fanatical, but if I only have to do it once a year, maybe not so bad.

Thanks in advance.

graphicguy · March 2000

It's up to you whether you want to remove the wheels to "Z" them. I leave mine on the car. I'm not certain what the LS's wheels look like.

I've got polished aluminum on mine with the "brake discs" in full view behind the wheel. I could probably remove the wheels to "wax" the areas that I can't get to, but don't have the tools to do this very easily.

I know people who do remove their wheels, though. I'm pleased with the look of just waxing the outside of the wheels while on the car. I wax them just as often as I wax the car.

lesebre · March 2000

I have a 99 Blazer that has hard water spotting. I have tried using store purchase wax cleaners but the process is so slow on removal. Are there any secret tricks that I can use to remove these water spots. The color is deep metalic indigo.

daverose · March 2000

Have you tried claying the hard water spots?

lesebre · March 2000

Thanks for your help...However please explain what is meant by claying. Since I am a novice, you will need to further explain. Thanks.

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