Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

bwia · September 2015

driver100 said:
Message to GG!

After I got the car home I noticed a chip in the plastic bumper - once I got home. I don't think it was there before the wash, but, no proof either way. I took it in and they said it would be pretty well impossible they did it. I don't think it was hit or it would cover a larger area, about 3/4 in X 1/4 inch, black spot on a white bumper.

It is pretty low to the ground so it was probably a stone chip. They sold me touch up paint for $28 and then they put it on....looks pretty good.

I wish I was that lucky. In making a sloppy three point turn I scraped my right front bumper, just below the fog light; the surface area of the scuff is about 6" x 3". Took the car to my dealership collision center for an estimate, and the service writer came back with a price of $671.

I barked at this unconscionable price but he said that they had to remove the bumper, sand, paint and dry; and that it is difficult to match paint colors. Bad enough? well wait for it---the job will take 3 days and they can give a rental at $40/day, all out of pocket of course. Don't know how much a replacement bumper costs but it seems as though that might be a cheaper way out.

roadburner · September 2015

Today I talked to the salesman at Kings Ford(who had the car I SHOULD have bought). He's on the lookout for another 2015 with a proper option list, but he did mention that the guy who bought the car I wanted traded a 2013 Mustang GT Premium with only 3,500 miles. Talk about night and day- the 2013 is a Valium special- NO options AT ALL. The guy must be in a state of absolute ecstasy- driving a decently optioned car.
I hate him. :@

bwia · September 2015

berri said:
The DC9 was a great plane for shorter hops. Only the small quantity of DC9-50 (a stretched version) was similar in size to the MD80. Most DC9's were -30 and a few early ones were smaller yet DC9-10's. I think there were some odd version DC9's built for several foreign carriers as well. They are all T Tails with rear engines that help quick lift in normal weather conditions. A B727 had three engines, a larger fuselage and greater range. I always felt the B727 was an amazing aircraft. They had no trouble taking off from places like New York LaGuardia, Washington Reagan or Chicago Midway. What killed it was the 3 pilot configuration, big improvements in B737 performance and the B757 (both were 2 pilot cockpits). On a hot summer day in the desert that DC9 is going to take some time lifting off unless it's fairly empty. Doesn't have the thrust of a B727, nor the wing setting flexibility. You want a muscle car equivalent, go for a B757 In the early passenger jet age, the old General Dynamics Convair 990 was the hot rod. It and it's 880 sister were 3-2 configuration jets, but they kind of guzzled fuel.

As for DC10's, personally I'd take the L-1011 (preferably without the Rolls Royce engine option).

I was reading in (Fortune?) that the Boeing 717 has become the worlds hottest secondhand jetliner. Never heard of the 717 before but I'm pretty sure I must have flown on the 100-seat Delta operated airline. If that airline was/is so cheap to operate as a regional jet why was production discontinued?

bwia · September 2015

tyguy said:
Ha, ha. That would be funny.

Well, I just returned from my first PT appointment and I'm not so prideful as to admit I cried. The therapist has two goals over the next ten weeks, 0 degrees extension and 130 degrees flexion. After ten weeks I'm pretty much locked. He said this is the single most painful orthopedic surgery to recover from.

Mike and all those others with artificial knees, you have my respect and admiration.

Tyguy, I wish you a speedy recovery. I was away from the board for a while and when I returned there were 147 new posts, many of them conveying their well wishes to you. Count me as one of those who will keep you in my prayers.
Blessings

driver100 · September 2015

suydam said:
Well, my son was in his early 20s when he bought his LeSabre, so image is as image does. In his case, he's 6'3" and also cheap, so no SUVs. The thing about those old Buicks, they made the same engine and parts for about 15 years at least, so they had it down. It was still running when he sold it but it did need work by then.

When I am near one of those older LeSabre type of Buicks I always check to see who is driving it. I estimate that about 90% of the time it is a male over 80 years old. Occasionally it is a younger person and I have to guess they are borrowing the car from a relative...or, they bought it really cheap- probably, from a relative.

I do agree, they are pretty solid, there is something to be said for tried and true technology. I would consider an older one if I wanted a really cheap older car that has a good chance of being pretty reliable.

driver100 · September 2015

bwia said:

driver100 said:
Message to GG!

After I got the car home I noticed a chip in the plastic bumper - once I got home. I don't think it was there before the wash, but, no proof either way. I took it in and they said it would be pretty well impossible they did it. I don't think it was hit or it would cover a larger area, about 3/4 in X 1/4 inch, black spot on a white bumper.

It is pretty low to the ground so it was probably a stone chip. They sold me touch up paint for $28 and then they put it on....looks pretty good.
I wish I was that lucky. In making a sloppy three point turn I scraped my right front bumper, just below the fog light; the surface area of the scuff is about 6" x 3". Took the car to my dealership collision center for an estimate, and the service writer came back with a price of $671.

I barked at this unconscionable price but he said that they had to remove the bumper, sand, paint and dry; and that it is difficult to match paint colors. Bad enough? well wait for it---the job will take 3 days and they can give a rental at $40/day, all out of pocket of course. Don't know how much a replacement bumper costs but it seems as though that might be a cheaper way out.

I forget what car you would have been driving when you got this scrape bwia. Unless it is a really new car you might get a dent guy to look at it. Sometimes garages want to do more work than necessary, and they want to make it more perfect than necessary. I had a dent in my previous car...the bmw 535 and the garage could have done a perfect job by taking off the panel etc., or they could just pull the dent out and paint it. Not as perfect but Only a trained eye could see any difference.

oldfarmer50 · September 2015

driver100 said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:
I'm daydreaming again.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/ctd/5174559932.html

I thought about asking driver100 to park it in his driveway until I can get down there but it might be gone by the time he arrives. Maybe dino001 since he lives there and as a GM basher he'd be less likely to steal it for himself.

From the looks of it the dealer has it about $2500 too high. My daydreams are all over the place from a cheap rusty truck to a low milage Luxobarge like a Lesabre or Grand Marquis.

Maybe I am going senile like my wife says.
A friend of mine has a 2004 LeSabre. Same color, leather, etc. Hers has about 160k, and is still going strong.

I do believe the price is about $3,000 too high, but other than that, go for it!
Are these cars really as good as the mileage would indicate? I don't know, but it seems to me any 10 year old car I have driven, with about 70k miles on it, seemed like a car that had gone twice as far. Things seem looser, and certain things just go. Maybe the cars I am thinking about had the mileage turned back, but I just don't feel the low mileage is a guaranty of a youthful car.

And, I don't know about parking a 10 year old LeSabre in my driveway OF....it may ruin my youthful image.

On the other hand it may just change the image of me owning a junk yard.

oldfarmer50 · September 2015

bwia said:

driver100 said:
Message to GG!

After I got the car home I noticed a chip in the plastic bumper - once I got home. I don't think it was there before the wash, but, no proof either way. I took it in and they said it would be pretty well impossible they did it. I don't think it was hit or it would cover a larger area, about 3/4 in X 1/4 inch, black spot on a white bumper.

It is pretty low to the ground so it was probably a stone chip. They sold me touch up paint for $28 and then they put it on....looks pretty good.
I wish I was that lucky. In making a sloppy three point turn I scraped my right front bumper, just below the fog light; the surface area of the scuff is about 6" x 3". Took the car to my dealership collision center for an estimate, and the service writer came back with a price of $671.

I barked at this unconscionable price but he said that they had to remove the bumper, sand, paint and dry; and that it is difficult to match paint colors. Bad enough? well wait for it---the job will take 3 days and they can give a rental at $40/day, all out of pocket of course. Don't know how much a replacement bumper costs but it seems as though that might be a cheaper way out.

When I got a few surface scrapes in the rear bumper cover of the Eclipse I went nuts and told the body shop to repainted the whole thing. He said that wouldn't be necessary. I replied that i wanted it repainted so well that when the rest of the car had rusted into the dirt my bumper would still look new. He did a flawless job for $300 and that was only because he had to buy a whole pint of very expensive paint.

I'd check with some indie shops.

stickguy · September 2015

i had a parking lot incident with my Accord that led to a banged up front bumper cover (some cracks, and a quarter size hole). Went to the body shop, and it was something like $700? or was it $900? In any case, quite a bit since it required a new part, then painting, etc.

guy told me that they normally would just patch and paint, and it comes out great for a fraction of the cost. I couldn't because of the hole and being deformed.

so if it is mostly scrapes, I would look for a local body guy (probably a smaller shop) that does this kind of work.

or do what I did. Just left it. Why tempt fate putting a new one on?

abacomike · September 2015

Well, I can't describe to all of you how proud I am of my son. It has been a joy having him here with his SO these past few days. He is a wonderful father - very involved in both his son's lives. He coaches his oldest son in baseball and after hearing how he handles balancing his work with taking care of his boys tears came to my eyes. He has become a wonderful man who is so aware of his shortcomings as well as his assets. After what he went through with his malignant brain tumor and never missed a day's work or coaching his son's team is miraculous.

His SO shared with me that even though he was in such horrific pain after those radiation treatments, he refused to take any drugs to lessen the throbbing in his head for fear he would become addicted.

I have tears in my eyes right now trying to describe how totally in love I am with my son and what he must do every day to provide for his children and stay alive. I am busting with joy and pride! Thanks for listening, everyone. I know you all have your own stories to tell of how proud you are of your children - what goes around comes around!!!

nyccarguy · September 2015

@tyguy - best of luck with your recovery.

@abacomike - I'm glad you are having such a nice time with your son & his girlfriendc

Michaell · September 2015

@stever - not sure which engine the 2014 Elantra GT has. My '13 has the 1.8L with 148HP, and the newer models have the 2.0 with 172HP .. and worse MPG.

Anyone here buy a car that was over their budget? Yeah, I thought so.

I just did that with the kitchen remodel ... decided to replace the laminate countertops with quartz. Pretty decent price for materials and labor. Two different colors - a solid grey (gray?) for the countertops and a darker pattern for the island. I'm spending money like I have it, though the results will look good when it's all done. Will compliment the floors and the walls nicely.

Got the kids (and their spouses, and their friends) painting the entire interior of the house this weekend - most of the basement is done as of today. Will start on the ceilings and bedrooms tomorrow and probably do the common spaces on Monday. Helps when they have all the right tools to do the job well. But, we badly underestimated how much paint we've needed so far. Gone back once today for more ceiling paint, and going again in the morning for another gallon of wall color for the basement.

qbrozen · September 2015

A sort of buying story:

my sister and BIL have been chomping at the bit to get into new leases with 4 mos left in their Mazdas. Mazda dealer, despite them constantly harassing them to trade now, would not meet their demands of $1k OOP and less than $200/mo. Best they came up with was somewhere around $1500/$215 for a mazda3 sport hatch and $1500/$220 for a mazda3 touring sedan.

So I was, of course, urging them to look around. Over the past few weeks, she's been asking me questions about various vehicles. On Friday, i happened upon the Edmunds article about all the lease deals under $200. Top of the list is a Buick Encore. So I checked out Buick's site and sent her the details. She liked what she saw and then she found a screamer ad at a dealer between our 2 houses for $199 all taxes and fees included with $0 down for 39 mos. Huh. Gotta be a catch but whatever we'll go check out the car at least.

Met her there a couple hours later and saleslady claimed they had 1 at that price and it was a service loaner with 2k miles. But its in blue which is what sis wanted. Drove the car and I was quite impressed with it. Very solid and very well equipped for a base model. Sis loved it. Got back and they started dancing a bit saying that deal expired blah blah. Sis got a little loud and said she does not want to hear anything except $199/$0 down. Few mins later, they said they would do it. Only thing was first month up front and $149 registration. OK, fair enough. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

oldfarmer50 · September 2015

abacomike said:
Well, I can't describe to all of you how proud I am of my son. It has been a joy having him here with his SO these past few days. He is a wonderful father - very involved in both his son's lives. He coaches his oldest son in baseball and after hearing how he handles balancing his work with taking care of his boys tears came to my eyes. He has become a wonderful man who is so aware of his shortcomings as well as his assets. After what he went through with his malignant brain tumor and never missed a day's work or coaching his son's team is miraculous.

His SO shared with me that even though he was in such horrific pain after those radiation treatments, he refused to take any drugs to lessen the throbbing in his head for fear he would become addicted.

I have tears in my eyes right now trying to describe how totally in love I am with my son and what he must do every day to provide for his children and stay alive. I am busting with joy and pride! Thanks for listening, everyone. I know you all have your own stories to tell of how proud you are of your children - what goes around comes around!!!

That's great Mike. You must have done some good parenting yourself for him to turn out so well.

bwia · September 2015

qbrozen said:
A sort of buying story:

my sister and BIL have been chomping at the bit to get into new leases with 4 mos left in their Mazdas. Mazda dealer, despite them constantly harassing them to trade now, would not meet their demands of $1k OOP and less than $200/mo. Best they came up with was somewhere around $1500/$215 for a mazda3 sport hatch and $1500/$220 for a mazda3 touring sedan.

So I was, of course, urging them to look around. Over the past few weeks, she's been asking me questions about various vehicles. On Friday, i happened upon the Edmunds article about all the lease deals under $200. Top of the list is a Buick Encore. So I checked out Buick's site and sent her the details. She liked what she saw and then she found a screamer ad at a dealer between our 2 houses for $199 all taxes and fees included with $0 down for 39 mos. Huh. Gotta be a catch but whatever we'll go check out the car at least.

Met her there a couple hours later and saleslady claimed they had 1 at that price and it was a service loaner with 2k miles. But its in blue which is what sis wanted. Drove the car and I was quite impressed with it. Very solid and very well equipped for a base model. Sis loved it. Got back and they started dancing a bit saying that deal expired blah blah. Sis got a little loud and said she does not want to hear anything except $199/$0 down. Few mins later, they said they would do it. Only thing was first month up front and $149 registration. OK, fair enough. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

That's an unbelievably sweet deal; and best of all it came with two years of free maintenance.

oldfarmer50 · September 2015

qbrozen said:
A sort of buying story:

my sister and BIL have been chomping at the bit to get into new leases with 4 mos left in their Mazdas. Mazda dealer, despite them constantly harassing them to trade now, would not meet their demands of $1k OOP and less than $200/mo. Best they came up with was somewhere around $1500/$215 for a mazda3 sport hatch and $1500/$220 for a mazda3 touring sedan.

So I was, of course, urging them to look around. Over the past few weeks, she's been asking me questions about various vehicles. On Friday, i happened upon the Edmunds article about all the lease deals under $200. Top of the list is a Buick Encore. So I checked out Buick's site and sent her the details. She liked what she saw and then she found a screamer ad at a dealer between our 2 houses for $199 all taxes and fees included with $0 down for 39 mos. Huh. Gotta be a catch but whatever we'll go check out the car at least.

Met her there a couple hours later and saleslady claimed they had 1 at that price and it was a service loaner with 2k miles. But its in blue which is what sis wanted. Drove the car and I was quite impressed with it. Very solid and very well equipped for a base model. Sis loved it. Got back and they started dancing a bit saying that deal expired blah blah. Sis got a little loud and said she does not want to hear anything except $199/$0 down. Few mins later, they said they would do it. Only thing was first month up front and $149 registration. OK, fair enough. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

I like that she out dealt the dealer. Those bait and switch screamer ads should be againsts the law. Was there any disclaimer that the advertised car was a service loaner with milage? I would have busted a gasket and stormed out.

bwia · September 2015

abacomike said:
Well, I can't describe to all of you how proud I am of my son. It has been a joy having him here with his SO these past few days. He is a wonderful father - very involved in both his son's lives. He coaches his oldest son in baseball and after hearing how he handles balancing his work with taking care of his boys tears came to my eyes. He has become a wonderful man who is so aware of his shortcomings as well as his assets. After what he went through with his malignant brain tumor and never missed a day's work or coaching his son's team is miraculous.

His SO shared with me that even though he was in such horrific pain after those radiation treatments, he refused to take any drugs to lessen the throbbing in his head for fear he would become addicted.

I have tears in my eyes right now trying to describe how totally in love I am with my son and what he must do every day to provide for his children and stay alive. I am busting with joy and pride! Thanks for listening, everyone. I know you all have your own stories to tell of how proud you are of your children - what goes around comes around!!!

Seems like you are having a late Father's day gift. Nice emotional story. Give praises to the Lord for blessing you with such a good son. Don't be surprised when he makes the big wedding announcement because he apparently has a good woman who has stood by him during those difficult times.

suydam · September 2015

Buick is advertising the Encore lease this month at $199/0 down, so you might be able to dig one up! Around our parts the leather models are going for less than $25k so I'm sure the base model is quite a bit less. It's still a great deal and as you say the base models have a lot of features as standard equipment.

driver100 · September 2015

stickguy said:

guy told me that they normally would just patch and paint, and it comes out great for a fraction of the cost. I couldn't because of the hole and being deformed.

Stick, it was nice of him to give you a discount because of your handicap!

driver100 · September 2015

bwia said:

qbrozen said:
A sort of buying story:

. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

That's an unbelievably sweet deal; and best of all it came with two years of free maintenance.

Not sort of...but a great buying story. Sounds like the deal of the century. I guess like most dealerships they will try the bait and switch, but when they saw that could lead to big problems they caved.

The one thing I would be on guard for with a car selling at a minimal price is if it has all the basic equipment. When we looked at 2013 Passats they had an advertised price of starting from $19999. I asked the salesman why I hadn't actually seen a Passat priced at $19999. The ads were national, and they couldn't sell one for that price in Florida because you can't sell a new car in Florida that doesn't have air conditioning. The other problem was the seats were made out of some kind of cheap straw material, and the drivers seat was manually adjustable, but the passengers seat was barely adjustable...just back and forth.

I am sure they didn't sell many base models, just made them to advertise a price below $20k to get people into the showroom.

driver100 · September 2015

Mike, Sounds like a great kid. Nice that you could share your time together.

[Deleted User] · September 2015

Thank you bwia and Bradd! The evenings can be more challenging, but that's when I feel all the support to endure the short periods of discomfort.

Mike, great to hear about your son and I'm so very glad to learn his health is doing well after the cancer treatment.

graphicguy · September 2015

driver100 said:

stever said:

graphicguy said:
Retina suregery was by far the most painful. Lasik and cataract, I never felt a thing except later when my eyes ached a bit. The down side with oil, they have to go back in a little later and take the oil sac out.
Are they making you stay in bed with your head "down"? Neither of my retinal repairs hurt, nor did my Lasik or cataracts. The oil sac is new to me, wish I could get the silicon out of my eye. Including two Yags, I'm up to 8 "procedures". Still don't need glasses around the house after all that.

The VW dealer is working the phones here; been ignoring their calls. The out of town Dodge dealer emailed a Labor Day used car tent sale flyer. The Kia dealer has followed my request and has emailed me updates. All three of my replies to that dealer have bounced; apparently they put my (legit) email in their spam filter. And there's so many '15 Souls here, the GM said there's no tentative date for getting any '16s in.

Lots of screamer ads in the paper too.

graphicguy said:
Driver...it doesn't cost me to file Lemon Law papers in my state. Cadillac doesn't give out the person to file with, however. They have a general group that is practiced at delaying, denying, resisting that you go through at Cadillac to send it to, though!
I am missing something then GG. Sorry if I am not understanding this but *If you can file Lemon Law papers for free, then why does the lawyer need $1500?

If I understand what you are saying, you have to file Lemon Papers with Cadillac, but they don't tell you who or how to file the papers? Can't the people in government help you to get through to the right people.

If it is almost impossible to file Lemon Law papers with the manufacturer, that would make a very interesting news story for your local TV News team. Car scam stories are of high interest, and this one would be of a lot of interest to a lot of people. I can see it now....when is a Lemon Law almost Useless...story at 11, do you know where your kids are?

Driver...all good questions. I guess the lawyer would file the paperwork to the State Attorney General's office, but tacks on fees for the service. I know it was quite a few years ago, but when I did this for my Mother and her Lemon Cadillac, it was pretty straight forward. I didn't even have to go through the Attorney General's Office. I dealt with the Regional Cadillac rep. Now, it took him some time to admit there were ongoing problems with the car, but he eventually came around.

I've been asking the selling dealer and the servicing dealer to put me in touch with the Regional Rep, which so far, they won't do. For all I know, since the GM reorganization, they may have gone to a different system and don't have a local regional rep any more.

And yes, they make it as difficult as possible to file the paperwork as described by my Attorney General's Office. They keep trying to push me to the Better Business Bureau, who keeps pushing me back to the dealer(s), who can't fix the car.

Thinking more and more that getting the media involved is looking like a good idea.

OldFarmer....am I going stiry crazy with the detached retina recovery? Yeah....as a matter of fact, I am. Problem I have is that yesterday, it seemed to be doing OK. Last night, not so much. I think with the current high heat and humidity, as well as the high pollen count, it's really irritated. Not sure it's normal or not, but it's in the same eye I had my cataract surgery. And, the eyesight in that eye is definitely worse than before the retinal issues. Certainly worse today, two days after retina surgery than it was yesterday at one day after the surgery. Is it because of irritation and the trauma suregery does to the eye? I don't know. I'm not due back to the Dr until this coming Friday.

I have to sleep on 4 pillows with my head propped up. Sleep isn't exactly what I'd call what I'm doing. More like neck callisthenics. It's itchy and watery all the time, too. So, not pleasant.

stever · September 2015

The Encore $199 deal was advertised here a couple of weeks ago. Didn't investigate it because I just assumed it was for the base model.

abacomike · September 2015

@graphicguy:

So sorry to hear you are not doing so well after the retinal surgery. Holiday weekend or not, I would put a call into the eye surgeon now (someone has to be on call) just to share with a doctor what you are going through with that eye - even if just to hear from a doctor that it is normal. On the other hand, maybe it's "not" normal so you can do something about it so it does not get worse. Your eyesight is one of the most important senses you have - don't take chances. That is my honest opinion.

oldfarmer50 · September 2015

driver100 said:

bwia said:

qbrozen said:
A sort of buying story:

. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

That's an unbelievably sweet deal; and best of all it came with two years of free maintenance.
Not sort of...but a great buying story. Sounds like the deal of the century. I guess like most dealerships they will try the bait and switch, but when they saw that could lead to big problems they caved.

The one thing I would be on guard for with a car selling at a minimal price is if it has all the basic equipment. When we looked at 2013 Passats they had an advertised price of starting from $19999. I asked the salesman why I hadn't actually seen a Passat priced at $19999. The ads were national, and they couldn't sell one for that price in Florida because you can't sell a new car in Florida that doesn't have air conditioning. The other problem was the seats were made out of some kind of cheap straw material, and the drivers seat was manually adjustable, but the passengers seat was barely adjustable...just back and forth.

I am sure they didn't sell many base models, just made them to advertise a price below $20k to get people into the showroom.

Who would sell a modern car ANYWHERE without AC?

suydam · September 2015

I think it is the base model. But the base model has standard features that are optional on a lot of other vehicles.

imidazol97 · September 2015

graphicguy said:
Certainly worse today, two days after retina surgery than it was yesterday at one day after the surgery. Is it because of irritation and the trauma suregery does to the eye? I don't know. I'm not due back to the Dr until this coming Friday. .

Did the doctor give you a contact number for problems--day or night? The decrease in vision would concern
me and I'd give a call being clear you are concerned. Even our dentist gives his cell phone number after a
major procedure like my wife's implant. And my cataract doctors gave a number for anything outside the symptoms
they had described to expect after those surgeries; that included the YAG laser months later to zap the offending parts of the rear capsule.

The itching and tearing after having to enter the eye like they did may be normal, but I'd panic at decreasing vision unless they said or say on the usual paperwork to expect decreased clarity as the recovery goes on.

Wishing the best.

imidazol97 · September 2015

When I am near one of those older LeSabre type of Buicks I always check to see who is driving it. I estimate that about 90% of the time it is a male over 80 years old.

Sounds like you're saying that on extremely elderly folks would drive a Buick? I can't speak to your area, but
in this part of the US the more typical elderly folk mobile is a toyota camry. However, more often than not, the really elderly driver is female, most likely having inherited all the husband's wealth as he passed on and she bought the
car that everyone told her was "reliable."

The 1999 and earlier leSabres like I had included a rear sway bar and really cornered well, even if the struts were the original types that gave a very good highway ride. As I indicated earlier about Buick's lineup, they lost having a vehicle that was good transportation with a premium finish like the leSabres at a more normal price. I believe now that was taken away intending it to be Chevrolet's domain for pricing. As Buick changes their target buyer and having to do a fairly ungraceful dance around the product GM has allowed them, they really need to get back to that buyer.

Occasionally it is a younger person and I have to guess they are borrowing the car from a relative...or, they bought it really cheap- probably, from a relative.

Not sure that younger people only picked a Buick because it was really cheap or from a relative. My neighbor picks up leSabres and Bonnevilles and fixes up the maintenance. They sell quickly even at high miles and some blemishes, even definite dents. A lot of middle aged and younger people are spending their money carefully rather than falling for the screaming dealers selling a glitzy new product. As Dave Ramsey says, the paid off mortgage has replaced the BMW in the driveway as a status symbol for a lot of people.

stever · September 2015

suydam said:
I think it is the base model. But the base model has standard features that are optional on a lot of other vehicles.

True, but we want more, more, more!

I don't think we're good candidates for leasing anyway. Would likely underestimate our miles or get a wild hair and drive to Bangor or something. Thinking about a drive to SoCal in December, although we may be buried in company most of the month.

qbrozen · September 2015

Difference with my sister's deal is that its $199 all in. Meaning, that is her payment. I've never noticed an ad like that before. Usually they want to entice you with the lowest possible number and then hit you with the additional $750 in fees and then add the tax to the whole thing.

No, the ad said nothing about service loaner, but since it is a lease, we really didn't care.

imidazol97 · September 2015

I came close to a buying story yesterday when a driver at Chick Fil A started backing out of his parking space and would have hit the back fender of my car with his van. I was backing from the opposite side of the driveway through the backed up drivethru line.

He didn't look--it's hard to miss a bright red car behind you.

driver100 · September 2015

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

stever said:

graphicguy said:
Retina suregery was by far the most painful. Lasik and cataract, I never felt a thing except later when my eyes ached a bit. The down side with oil, they have to go back in a little later and take the oil sac out.
Are they making you stay in bed with your head "down"? Neither of my retinal repairs hurt, nor did my Lasik or cataracts. The oil sac is new to me, wish I could get the silicon out of my eye. Including two Yags, I'm up to 8 "procedures". Still don't need glasses around the house after all that.

The VW dealer is working the phones here; been ignoring their calls. The out of town Dodge dealer emailed a Labor Day used car tent sale flyer. The Kia dealer has followed my request and has emailed me updates. All three of my replies to that dealer have bounced; apparently they put my (legit) email in their spam filter. And there's so many '15 Souls here, the GM said there's no tentative date for getting any '16s in.

Lots of screamer ads in the paper too.

graphicguy said:
Driver...it doesn't cost me to file Lemon Law papers in my state. Cadillac doesn't give out the person to file with, however. They have a general group that is practiced at delaying, denying, resisting that you go through at Cadillac to send it to, though!
I am missing something then GG. Sorry if I am not understanding this but *If you can file Lemon Law papers for free, then why does the lawyer need $1500?

If I understand what you are saying, you have to file Lemon Papers with Cadillac, but they don't tell you who or how to file the papers? Can't the people in government help you to get through to the right people.

If it is almost impossible to file Lemon Law papers with the manufacturer, that would make a very interesting news story for your local TV News team. Car scam stories are of high interest, and this one would be of a lot of interest to a lot of people. I can see it now....when is a Lemon Law almost Useless...story at 11, do you know where your kids are?

I've been asking the selling dealer and the servicing dealer to put me in touch with the Regional Rep, which so far, they won't do. For all I know, since the GM reorganization, they may have gone to a different system and don't have a local regional rep any more.

And yes, they make it as difficult as possible to file the paperwork as described by my Attorney General's Office. They keep trying to push me to the Better Business Bureau, who keeps pushing me back to the dealer(s), who can't fix the car.

Thinking more and more that getting the media involved is looking like a good idea.

OldFarmer....am I going stiry crazy with the detached retina recovery? Yeah....as a matter of fact, I am. Problem I have is that yesterday, it seemed to be doing OK. Last night, not so much. I think with the current high heat and humidity, as well as the high pollen count, it's really irritated. I don't know. I'm not due back to the Dr until this coming Friday.

I have to sleep on 4 pillows with my head propped up. Sleep isn't exactly what I'd call what I'm doing. More like neck callisthenics. It's itchy and watery all the time, too. So, not pleasant.

You may talk to the Attorney Generals office and tell them Cadillac is not forthcoming about how to get in touch with their regional rep. Is this their way to avoid the Lemon Law? BBB is a waste of time, they have no clout and will only care about their potential clients, the car companies. The media should welcome a story about how difficult it is to try and use the Lemon Laws, and to do a segment on what can go wrong when you buy a new car.

Also, a reminder, get in touch with Insurance institute as well as the government who are looking into safety issues and recalls. They should be getting tougher on car companies, especially concerning car issues.

Eye issue is even more important and I think the advice others offered is worth considering. Call your doctors office and let them know if what you are experiencing is normal. It is too important to ignore.

driver100 · September 2015

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

bwia said:

qbrozen said:
A sort of buying story:

. She does, however, need to turn in her mazda and pay the remaining 3 payments and disposal fee, which all amounts to about $990. So, in the end, she essentially got a $25k Buick hatch for $15/mo less than a $20k mazda hatch. That's a hell of a deal. I was tempted to ask if they could dig one up for me.

That's an unbelievably sweet deal; and best of all it came with two years of free maintenance.
Not sort of...but a great buying story. Sounds like the deal of the century. I guess like most dealerships they will try the bait and switch, but when they saw that could lead to big problems they caved.

The one thing I would be on guard for with a car selling at a minimal price is if it has all the basic equipment. When we looked at 2013 Passats they had an advertised price of starting from $19999. I asked the salesman why I hadn't actually seen a Passat priced at $19999. The ads were national, and they couldn't sell one for that price in Florida because you can't sell a new car in Florida that doesn't have air conditioning. The other problem was the seats were made out of some kind of cheap straw material, and the drivers seat was manually adjustable, but the passengers seat was barely adjustable...just back and forth.

I am sure they didn't sell many base models, just made them to advertise a price below $20k to get people into the showroom.

Who would sell a modern car ANYWHERE without AC?

Apparently you could buy a Passat without air AC in New York State where AC is not mandatory. Maybe Alaska too!

driver100 · September 2015

imidazol97 said:
When I am near one of those older LeSabre type of Buicks I always check to see who is driving it. I estimate that about 90% of the time it is a male over 80 years old.

Sounds like you're saying that on extremely elderly folks would drive a Buick? I can't speak to your area, but
in this part of the US the more typical elderly folk mobile is a toyota camry. However, more often than not, the really elderly driver is female, most likely having inherited all the husband's wealth as he passed on and she bought the
car that everyone told her was "reliable."

The 1999 and earlier leSabres like I had included a rear sway bar and really cornered well, even if the struts were the original types that gave a very good highway ride. As I indicated earlier about Buick's lineup, they lost having a vehicle that was good transportation with a premium finish like the leSabres at a more normal price. I believe now that was taken away intending it to be Chevrolet's domain for pricing. As Buick changes their target buyer and having to do a fairly ungraceful dance around the product GM has allowed them, they really need to get back to that buyer.

Occasionally it is a younger person and I have to guess they are borrowing the car from a relative...or, they bought it really cheap- probably, from a relative.

Not sure that younger people only picked a Buick because it was really cheap or from a relative. My neighbor picks up leSabres and Bonnevilles and fixes up the maintenance. They sell quickly even at high miles and some blemishes, even definite dents. A lot of middle aged and younger people are spending their money carefully rather than falling for the screaming dealers selling a glitzy new product. As Dave Ramsey says, the paid off mortgage has replaced the BMW in the driveway as a status symbol for a lot of people.

I have noticed older people do like Camry's lately. But, it is a fact, the Buick demographic is older than average, even with some of the smaller new models younger people tend to buy.

The new products have helped to change Buick’s demographics. In 2006, Buick buyers on average had celebrated 66 birthdays. Last year the number was 57, the company said. The Verano helped, because small cars tend to draw younger buyers. But Buick buyers are still older than the norm, and the automaker would like to catch more people in their 40s. The average car buyer in the U.S. is 52

Also, this was interesting:

In 1984, GM sold 942,000 Buicks in the U.S., according to Ward’s AutoInfoBank. But younger people opted for SUVs and cooler European cars, and never aged into Buicks. Sales tumbled, bottoming out at barely more than 102,000 in 2009. GM kept the brand alive only because it became a huge seller in China.

The company doesn’t expect Buick sales to approach 900,000 per year again, but executives say they can still make a lot of money selling smaller numbers of the higher-priced luxury vehicles.

GM is giving the LaCrosse a more sculpted, modern look. It gets updated LED daytime running lamps and taillights, and a larger front grille. On the inside, it gets new, more-supportive seats and a modernized center stack with fewer buttons than the current car. The interior will have more of a luxury feeling to differentiate it from the sportier Regal.

The LaCrosse goes on sale late this summer, and the Regal comes out in the fall. Prices and gas mileage weren’t disclosed. The current Regal starts at $29,015, while the LaCrosse starts at $31,660.

Buick sales have risen in the past three years, to 180,000 in 2012.

Not sure about recent numbers. Buick is definitely getting younger people interested, but, I don't hear a lot of young people really wanting a Buick....usually it is a more mature person who remembers the glory days when a Buick was something that said you had made it.

imidazol97 · September 2015

driver100 said:
Eye issue is even more important and I think the advice others offered is worth considering. Call your doctors office and let them know if what you are experiencing is normal. It is too important to ignore.

Agree. Our friend was staying at her son's in Toledo for Christmas when she experienced darkening around the edge of her vision in one eye. She waited until she got home the next day to call eye doctor. She lost that peripheral vision due to a bleed, IIRC, and because she waited. She didn't want to disrupt her family's evening after the holiday dinner with a trip to the ER.

abacomike · September 2015

@graphicguy:

Definitely put a call into the doctor - better safe than sorry - as they say!

carnaught · September 2015

Re: post-op retinal surgery, I had the self absorbing oil-bubble placed at the time of the laser and vitrectomy, The oil or gas bubble is to hold the retina to the rear of the eye globe preventing further detachment. I only had slight vision at the very top of the field, like I was at the bottom of an aquarium with the water line at the top. That was disconcerting, and it took a total of 3 mos. for the oil to completely absorb. At times I felt like I was drowning, other times I felt claustrophobic, just from that one eye. Yes, I had occasional itching and slight eye pain, and needed to use multiple prescription eyedrops. I could not read, and certainly did not feel comfortable driving. Kudos to you for being able to post on these forums, as I would not have been able.

GG, your procedure may have been slightly different, owing to the fact that your oil reservoir has to be removed, I believe you said. Since "your results may vary", you should touch base now with the doctor, relaying your observations, and seeing if what you're experiencing is normal.

When all was said and done, it was worth it cause I've had no sequellae or residual sight problems.

Good luck; things will get better!

ab348 · September 2015

driver100 said:

Not sure about recent numbers. Buick is definitely getting younger people interested, but, I don't hear a lot of young people really wanting a Buick....usually it is a more mature person who remembers the glory days when a Buick was something that said you had made it.

It takes a decade, maybe two, to change brand image. Look at Hyundai, 20 years ago they were a total bottom-feeder vehicle. Now they are somewhat less so. Cadillac has tried and is still working through getting away from its gold-chain and Barcalounger image. The list goes on. But it is not an easy thing to do and requires lots of time, usually almost a full generation.

suydam · September 2015

All I can say is that if they were still making Buicks like the Park Avenue as the standard, I would never go near a Buick dealership. And I'm over 60. So I think the aged cushy demographic is -- ahem -- fading. If the average new car buyer is 52, then Buick has dramatically improved its image already if it's at 57 now. It's always going to skew a little older because younger folks generally can't afford the upscale vehicles that Buick is branding itself with now. But they can buy used versions. And although my son was loyal to his LeSabre, he vastly prefers the Impala, which he also bought used. It does handle much better and gets better gas mileage too, things important to most buyers of any age nowadays.

stever · September 2015

driver100 said:
Apparently you could buy a Passat without air AC in New York State where AC is not mandatory. Maybe Alaska too!

Yeah, but lots of defrosters use the AC to dehumidify the air to help defog the windshield. I only had AC my last winter in AK and maybe it helped. A garage would have helped a lot more.

snakeweasel · September 2015

imidazol97 said:

Good explanation of the real data. I didn't even read the original post by OP; your results make sense.

The one thing about studies is you cannot just take what they say at face value. Any study is pretty much worthless if others cannot replicate the results, or if the majority of other studies have results that contradict it. So it is always best to look at all the studies that pertain to what you are researching and see how they all line up, not just pick and choose those that support your position.

robr2 · September 2015

bwia said:

berri said:
The DC9 was a great plane for shorter hops. Only the small quantity of DC9-50 (a stretched version) was similar in size to the MD80. Most DC9's were -30 and a few early ones were smaller yet DC9-10's. I think there were some odd version DC9's built for several foreign carriers as well. They are all T Tails with rear engines that help quick lift in normal weather conditions. A B727 had three engines, a larger fuselage and greater range. I always felt the B727 was an amazing aircraft. They had no trouble taking off from places like New York LaGuardia, Washington Reagan or Chicago Midway. What killed it was the 3 pilot configuration, big improvements in B737 performance and the B757 (both were 2 pilot cockpits). On a hot summer day in the desert that DC9 is going to take some time lifting off unless it's fairly empty. Doesn't have the thrust of a B727, nor the wing setting flexibility. You want a muscle car equivalent, go for a B757 In the early passenger jet age, the old General Dynamics Convair 990 was the hot rod. It and it's 880 sister were 3-2 configuration jets, but they kind of guzzled fuel.

As for DC10's, personally I'd take the L-1011 (preferably without the Rolls Royce engine option).
I was reading in (Fortune?) that the Boeing 717 has become the worlds hottest secondhand jetliner. Never heard of the 717 before but I'm pretty sure I must have flown on the 100-seat Delta operated airline. If that airline was/is so cheap to operate as a regional jet why was production discontinued?

It was victim to a combination of things:

low fuel prices - it didn't make sense for airlines to replace inefficient, PAID FOR planes with a new jet.
labor costs - the 717 is a 100 seat jet so under contracts, it has to be flown by the flag carrier (American Airlines) which has higher pilot costs than 75 seat jets which are flown by the low cost regional carriers (American Eagle).
9/11 - airlines started to downsize after the attack and running bigger jets less frequently was a result.
step child - the 717 was a updated DC-9 that Boeing received in the McDonnell Douglas purchase so it was always considered a lesser plane by the Boeing people.

henryn · September 2015

oldfarmer50 said:

I really judge a used car by the engine. For example I wouldn't buy any Caddy with the Northstar motor. I wouldn't get a Chrysler with the 2.7L 6 unless I knew the oil change history. Probably wouldn't want the old Ford 3.8L head gasket blower either.

Certainly that's not the only thing that matters but if the engine is junk the car will never be fun to drive.

I have owned a total of 4 Cadillacs with the Northstar engine. One of those blew the head gaskets and became worthless, but we had already put 85k miles on her (purchased at 35k, blew head gaskets at 120k), so we got our money’s worth anyway.

explorerx4 said:
One of my brother in laws was given a low mileage(35k miles) Cadillac that he drove back from Florida where is was garaged. The first thing to stand him was brake lines failing, then something electrical.
Several years later, he is still driving it.

I purchased a 2006 Cadillac DTS in March of this year. One owner, new car trade in, 35k miles. I have driven 3k miles in 6 months, with zero problems of any kind. I paid $10,800 cash at the dealer (Cadillac dealer).

What can I say, I like Cadillacs! I almost bought a Hyundai Genesis this last time, but while trying to find the right deal on the right car, this Cadillac showed up, and I could not pass it up.

driver100 · September 2015

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I really judge a used car by the engine. For example I wouldn't buy any Caddy with the Northstar motor. I wouldn't get a Chrysler with the 2.7L 6 unless I knew the oil change history. Probably wouldn't want the old Ford 3.8L head gasket blower either.

Certainly that's not the only thing that matters but if the engine is junk the car will never be fun to drive.

I have owned a total of 4 Cadillacs with the Northstar engine. One of those blew the head gaskets and became worthless, but we had already put 85k miles on her (purchased at 35k, blew head gaskets at 120k), so we got our money’s worth anyway.
explorerx4 said:
One of my brother in laws was given a low mileage(35k miles) Cadillac that he drove back from Florida where is was garaged. The first thing to stand him was brake lines failing, then something electrical.
Several years later, he is still driving it.
I purchased a 2006 Cadillac DTS in March of this year. One owner, new car trade in, 35k miles. I have driven 3k miles in 6 months, with zero problems of any kind. I paid $10,800 cash at the dealer (Cadillac dealer).

What can I say, I like Cadillacs! I almost bought a Hyundai Genesis this last time, but while trying to find the right deal on the right car, this Cadillac showed up, and I could not pass it up.

You and oldfarmer should open up a used car dealership. You two find some really good bargains. $10800 for a luxury liner with 35k miles on it.....you can't go wrong.

bwia · September 2015

Seems as though this thread is becoming a convalescence ward. No surprise as most posters here are getting up in age.

GG---sorry your post-op is causing much discomfort. As the others have said, perhaps it is time to call your doctor.

Tyguy, pretty soon you'll walking. Take things one day at a time.

bwia · September 2015

robr2 said:

The DC9 was a great plane for shorter hops. Only the small quantity of DC9-50 (a stretched version) was similar in size to the MD80. Most DC9's were -30 and a few early ones were smaller yet DC9-10's. I think there were some odd version DC9's built for several foreign carriers as well. They are all T Tails with rear engines that help quick lift in normal weather conditions. A B727 had three engines, a larger fuselage and greater range. I always felt the B727 was an amazing aircraft. They had no trouble taking off from places like New York LaGuardia, Washington Reagan or Chicago Midway. What killed it was the 3 pilot configuration, big improvements in B737 performance and the B757 (both were 2 pilot cockpits). On a hot summer day in the desert that DC9 is going to take some time lifting off unless it's fairly empty. Doesn't have the thrust of a B727, nor the wing setting flexibility. You want a muscle car equivalent, go for a B757 In the early passenger jet age, the old General Dynamics Convair 990 was the hot rod. It and it's 880 sister were 3-2 configuration jets, but they kind of guzzled fuel. As for DC10's, personally I'd take the L-1011 (preferably without the Rolls Royce engine option).
I was reading in (Fortune?) that the Boeing 717 has become the worlds hottest secondhand jetliner. Never heard of the 717 before but I'm pretty sure I must have flown on the 100-seat Delta operated airline. If that airline was/is so cheap to operate as a regional jet why was production discontinued?
It was victim to a combination of things: low fuel prices - it didn't make sense for airlines to replace inefficient, PAID FOR planes with a new jet. labor costs - the 717 is a 100 seat jet so under contracts, it has to be flown by the flag carrier (American Airlines) which has higher pilot costs than 75 seat jets which are flown by the low cost regional carriers (American Eagle). 9/11 - airlines started to downsize after the attack and running bigger jets less frequently was a result. step child - the 717 was a updated DC-9 that Boeing received in the McDonnell Douglas purchase so it was always considered a lesser plane by the Boeing people.

Rob2, as usual I know i could count on your expert contribution; thanks. Damn, you are indeed a walking encyclopedia. I wonder if you are a frequent contributer to Wikipedia?

isellhondas · September 2015

We just bought a Buick from our next door neighbors.

Actually, it has a Toyota nameplate but it sure drives like a Park Avenue.

It's a 2004 Avalon and it runs, drives and looks like a new car. 95,000 babied miles. 2500.00!

It's the XLS model so it has options I have yet to discover. Love it!

snakeweasel · September 2015

graphicguy said:
Snake...I don't have the empirical data that you have. But, I gotta say, those who seem to purposely go under the speed limit by a nitceable amount, either on side streets, interstates, or rural routes, do seem to cause more accidents.

Actual data and what it looks like to someone are two different animals. My question is; is it the person going under the speed limit by a "noticeable" amount responsible for the accident or is it the speeder who is impatient and tries to rush around the slower vehicle?

graphicguy said:
Rubber neckers....those who insist on driving 10 or even 20 MPH under the speek limit so they can view the wreckage (as if they can actually help by holding everyone else up). I see rear enders happen all the time when it's clear someone just had to slow down to see the side show and the people behind them don't share their same fascination.

Well for one thing when there is an emergency situation on the road sometimes the safe thing to do is to slow down. While it might slow down traffic it makes the situation a bit safer for the responders especially if there is little room to move over.

graphicguy said:
Going to get a bit sexist on the next generaliztion, but young girls, and old ladies seem to be oblivious to what's going on around them. That gets into the whole "I'm afraid to drive 50 MPH on an interstate with a 70 MPH speek limit (mostly the elder ladies). If you're afraid to drive, for any reason, you probably shouldn't. The younger set is brushing their hair, mputting on makeup, talking on the phone, all at the same time and are again, totally oblivious to the happenings around them.

There is a theory that states that drivers education actually creates poorer drivers. The theory states that drivers ed courses teach new drivers the basics of what to do in an emergency situation but doesn't follow through with either follow up instructions and behind the wheel training for such emergencies. This creates overconfident drivers who really lack the skills they think they have so that they drive beyond their capabilities.

driver100 · September 2015

isellhondas said:
We just bought a Buick from our next door neighbors.

Actually, it has a Toyota nameplate but it sure drives like a Park Avenue.

It's a 2004 Avalon and it runs, drives and looks like a new car. 95,000 babied miles. 2500.00!

It's the XLS model so it has options I have yet to discover. Love it!

You have to change your name to idriveavalons.

Another sweet deal...$2500 for a fully equipped Avalon with 95K ! Poor oldfarmer is probably drooling.

Isn't an Avalon like a baby Buick?

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