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Check Engine light

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  • mmyplsrmmyplsr Member Posts: 6
    Hi i have the same code as u do. i have replaced the egr valve and other valve with no help..still trying to find out whats causing it... drive well after resetting code but comes back on in like 20 minutes..tried new fuel cap no help.,,ill let u know as soon as i get resolution or if u do first let me know too...getting a lil frustrated here...sweet car though.. thx mike im in aurora colorado
  • mmyplsrmmyplsr Member Posts: 6
    hello can anyone tell me where the egr solenoid valve is located on this 1994 infinity 20. i have looked everywhere with no luck..is it on engine or firewall. thx for ur help
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Here's what Autozone says:

    "Under hood, center, upper engine area, mounted on rear driver side of engine
  • autojunkeautojunke Member Posts: 9
    0patience,
    Ha, I used to work for a guy who owned a freakin shop, had for thirty years, and STILL had that mentality. Every time a MIL came in, he would promptly tell them to "tighten there gas cap, and see if the light goes out". I would always laugh, 90% of the cars coming in at that point didn't have enhanced EVAP, which means the cap wont cause a light any way!
    Back to the original message about the toyota, yeah I know what monitors run, in general, each manufacturer does things a bit different but the end result is the same. First you have the heater moniters, which basically just measure the current and time it takes for the 02 heater circuits to operate, assuming that is ok, it runs a component function montitor, basically changing fuel trim a certain amount, and seeing if the 02 sensors are cabable of reacting in a manner which indicates proper function. Say if the computer adds xxx fuel to the mix, it expects to see the 02 rise by .xx volts in xx milliseconds, and vice versa. Any test which result out of range, twice consecutivly will throw an 02 code, and a single failure will inhibit any test that need a working 02 from ever being ran. In conclusion, the ecm will always test the 02's, before running a cat test, and these are HIGH priority for the EPA, so the test threshhold is small, and accurate.
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    did you ever resolve this? I have a 2002 SL1 doing the same thing, I did the same stuff and someone said it is the map sensor?
  • pawpaw3pawpaw3 Member Posts: 1
    I have an 03 dodge dakota, 4.7L according to a diagonostic test, I need a cam positioning sensor. The salesman printed out a picture off the computer to show me how to find the sensor. The picture and the actual part are different. Can someone tell me where to find the sensor, which part number I actually need and how to replace it. What information do I need to give the salesman to let him know exactly what vehicle I have, to possibly get the correct part. Thanks for any help
  • thefeller1881thefeller1881 Member Posts: 1
    Soon after my temp gage stopped working my check service light came on. i had replaced the coolant temp sensor about a week before the light came on too. the car doesn't run hot and it still is running great. but the temp gage and check engine light is still on. i dont if its the coolant temp gage is bad that may be why the gage doesnt work, could that also cause the service light to some on??? im lost right now soo if any one can help holla at me pls. also its a 2001 chevy impala.
  • drollydrolly Member Posts: 32
    Wondering how long a "drive cycle" is for a 2003 Eclipse GTS. Had my check engine light on and had it checked out, bad O2 sensor, Bank 1 Sensor 1. Had them turn it off but they said it would probably come on after completing a drive cycle or after a drive cycle, something like that. Wondering how long/how many miles before this happens.

    Thanks!
  • drollydrolly Member Posts: 32
    Nevermind. The answer is "not long". 3 starts and 40 miles later, light is back on.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,242
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  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    possibly more than 1 temp sensor in the impala. do you have a haynes or other source for a electrical schematic / diagram for your vehicle?

    also possible in th process of replacing the temp gauge you did change, the wiring to it was damaged (connector).
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    possibly more than 1 temp sensor in the impala. do you have a haynes or other source for a electrical schematic / diagram for your vehicle?

    also possible in th process of replacing the temp gauge you did change, the wiring to it was damaged (connector).
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    When the error code is read and it indicates an O2 sensor failure which is at Bank 2, Sensor 2......I know that Bank 1 is the side which contains the #1 piston, so bank #2 is the other side. For a 1997 GM Sub V8-350 5 liter, which is the #1 piston side (the drivers left, or passengers right?) I have the complete Mfg binder set of service manuals, and for the life of me I can't find it defined.

    Second question, is the second sensor the sensor AFTER the catalytic converter?

    This vehicle has 4 sersors, and 2 catalytic converters. Each exhaust manifold comes down and under the vehicle, then has a sensor, a catalytic converter, another sensor, and then Y's to a single tailpipe. I'm "assuming" that the sensor 1 is the sensor before the catalytic, and sensor 2 is the sensor after the catalytic....but here again, it's not defined in the service manual.

    Any knowledge out there to the definitive description as to which side is Bank1, and where is sensor2?
  • bpbmintbpbmint Member Posts: 4
    I have been driving my 1998 Isuzu Hombre with the check engine light on now for 500,000 miles. I just got use to it. It went on at about 36,000 miles and has been on since. I could do nothing about it. If you won't drive it because of that I will take it.
  • bpbmintbpbmint Member Posts: 4
    I have a 1998 Isuzu Hombre XS with 500,621 miles on it. I bought this truck brand new. I use it in my delivery service here in Alexandria, La. This truck has some pretty hard miles on it. It has the 2.2 liter 4 cyl. I get on the highway and this truck cruises 70 and 80 mph with no problem. I have never been into this engine. This engine will not quit. I have changed 6 fuel pumps, 3 water pumps, 1 alternator. I have the original starter, which works just fine and believe it or not, I have the original daytime running lights. They have never burned out. I would drive this truck cross country right now. Is there anybody out there with this many miles on their vehicle. I would like to hear from you.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    I have the same problem, and I've done everything under the sun to try and fix it, yet it persists. A Saturn tech told me that he has seen a few cars like that, and he suspects that there is carbon buildup in the valves, not allowing them to seal properly. I can hear pops through the exhaust at idle, and the idle is around 1500 instead of the normal 800. The thing is, the car runs too good out on the highway for the valves to be sticking open. I tried using a product called Sea Foam to clean the carbon out of it, by sucking it into the vacuum line while the engine was running. This did help the acceleration, but it still skips at idle and idles high. I also tried changing the O2 sensor (downstream by the catalytic converter) and the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECTS). Still, to no avail. I am planning lots of work on the car next week to see if I can get the problem knocked out. I will let you know what I find.

    Have you gotten yours to run properly yet? If so, what did you do? A reply would be much appreciated. Thanks!
  • tonidtonid Member Posts: 4
    my check engine light has been on for 2 months. took it back to mechanic showed po302 misfire #2. changed the spark plugs, cleaned the fuel ejectors, did a compression test everone was 160 except the #2 which was 170. any help on this would be apprieciated. i dont know what to do next.
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    I had changed plugs, wires, swithced coils, did a comperssion check (which doesn't make since about the tech saying that it is carbon on the valves since the compression is the same in all cylinders). I just recently swapped fuel injectors from cyl 1 with cyl 2 and the same problem exists in cyl 1. Also, my idle is around 1700, the weird thing is when the A/C is on it drops down to about 1000-1100 and smooths out. I believe it is still missing even with the A/C on. The thing is I believe this is only an idle thing, because I still am getting between 38-40 mpg average (5 speed).

    Don't know what to do next, I am wondering if it is the idle control valve, sending an incorrect signal to the computer? The next step for me would be to take it to the dealer $85.00 for diagnostic however, will they find the problem? This is ridiculous as this seems to be a somewhat common occurance with these '01-'02 saturns.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    I had also replaced my plugs and wires, and I did a load balance test on the injectors to find that they were all releasing the same amount in each cylinder. This past weekend, I took off my throttle body and removed the Idle Air Control Valve (IAC) and used carb cleaner to remove all carbon. Everything was really thick and black with it. I replaced the O-ring for the IAC when I put it back together, and I replaced the gasket where the throttle body mounts to the intake manifold. I have a scan tool that I used to clear the diagnostic codes in the car, and I started it back up. At first, it was idling at the correct RPM but it was raised back up to 1500 as soon as it detected a misfire. I spoke to another mechanic and he told me that the car is detecting a misfire and jacking the idle up to compensate for it. He also suspects it to be exhaust valve trouble. I asked him why it would run so well out on the road if it was a valve problem, and he told me that the valves close with more force at higher RPMs, which make them seal good enough not to misfire. This makes sense to me, and I’ve replaced a lot of parts in trying to figure out the problem. Parts replaced: Spark plugs, spark plug wires, engine coolant temperature sensor, O2 sensor, IAC valve O-ring. I’ve thought about running Sea Foam in it again and letting it sit overnight, but the problem would be that it wouldn’t be soaking the valves since the engine has an overhead cam. So here is my next idea, which I may try: I could take the cam cover off and crank the engine to the point where the #1 cylinder (the one that misfires) is at the top and the exhaust valve is supposed to be closed. I can then squirt a bunch of carb cleaner directly on the valve and let it sit. If the valve is seating against carbon rather than the seat, perhaps the carb cleaner will erode the carbon. With the spark plug out, I’d use an air compressor to try and blast out the carbon. I’d continue to spray carb cleaner on the valve from the top and maybe crank the engine at different times to see if I could loosen it further. When I put it back together, I’d have to obviously replace the valve cover gasket. I’m not sure it can be re-used, so that money may be wasted if it doesn’t fix the problem. So I haven’t decided whether I want to try it or whether I just want to bite the bullet and pay for all of the parts necessary to replace the head with the new valves in it. Saturn sells a new head with the newly designed valve guides in it, but it is obviously very expensive. But, the vehicle is due for inspection in June, and if it’s the only thing that fixes the problem, I guess I'll have to do what it takes.
  • licatlicat Member Posts: 3
    O2 sensors have a life expectancy of about 80,000 miles. When they get old, they become sluggish as you infered. Upstream sensors which become sluggish to react will almost always defer to a rich condition which causes excess fuel in the mixture. This excess fuel causes a catalyst which is meant to run at about 950 degrees F. to run hotter. The excess heat causes deterioration of the internal biscuits and in worst cases the insulating blanket around the biscuit. In the former case, the converter becomes inefficient due to deterioration of the biscuit, in the latter, the insulation crumbles allowing the biscuit to rattle inside the casing and finally break. Replacing the UPSTREAM oxygen sensor is ALWAYS a good idea.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    licat,

    Do you happen to know in a GMotor V8, which is 'bank 1'? Is it on the passenger side or drivers side of the vehicle? I have an O2 sensor acting up, and other than knowing that piston 1 is also in bank 1, can't find anywhere in the service manuals to explain which is bank1.

    Also, is bank1, sensor2 the 2nd sensor (ie. 'after' the cat?)
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    Licat,

    To the best of my knowledge, the Saturn S-Series only has downstream O2 sensors, and there are two sensors total on the car. If I am incorrect, let me know where the upstream might be located and I'll see about replacing the sensor. I'm willing to do a lot of things in order to get this thing back in shape again (i.e. no more engine light).
  • licatlicat Member Posts: 3
    The car definately has an upstream sensor. What year and which engine? The popping and high idle sound like a lean condition which could certainly cause a P0420 code. Check vacuum lines, brake booster, etc... A bad upstream O2 could also cause a lean condition.
  • licatlicat Member Posts: 3
    Which GM V-8? Sensor 2 is the downstream (or after the cat) sensor.
  • 96pathy96pathy Member Posts: 2
    I just thought add a quick post, please feel free to add your comments accordingly. I have a 96 Nissan Pathfinder with 132,000 miles. The car has been running great, I get 18.5 mpg and do alot of highway driving. However, the CEL light came on 2 days ago and has not gone off. I took the car to a Meineke shop who diagnosed 3 codes (unfortunately I did not get the codes from the shop) but I do know 2 of the codes relate to the oxygen sensors and the other refers to the knock sensor. I am planning on evaluating the gas mileage over the next week to see if there is any decline in mileage. I have read that the O2 sensors typically last about 80k so it may do me good to replace the sensors. I do not hear any noticeable "knock" or misfire and the car still seems to run fine so I am not so concerned YET about the knock sensor issue. I read somewhere it may be adviseable to replace the O2 sensors first prior to the more expensive and time consuming repair of the knock sensor. Any thoughts on this??
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    I have a 2001 Pathfinder & I know the rear O2 sensors aren't even used for fuel metering unless the forward sensor fails. That may explain why your fuel ecnomy is still good & it's running ok.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    My question deals with which is bank#1 on a 5.0L V8...passenger side or drivers side.

    The vehicle has 4 o2 sensors. One set before and after the catalytic converter1 from bank1, a second set before and after the catalytic converter2 from bank2. After the catalytics, the pipes join for one tailpipe.

    Nowhere can I find in the factory service manuals (97 Sub K1500), which side is "Bank1".
  • 96pathy96pathy Member Posts: 2
    Yes, that maybe the case. I am going to disconnect the negative battery cable, reconnect and see if the CEL warning goes away. If it does, great...if not, I will probably just replace the front sensors and see if that helps the situation.

    Thanks for the comments, you are probably correct. There seems to be nothing wrong with the performance of the vehicle so far since the CEL came on. :)
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    I have gotten other messages that this is a leaky intake maniflold gasket at cyl 1, they say to put water around it and you will see it gurgling. It sounds like this is the problem as they said a Saturn mechanic knew exactly what it was. The message was that the gasket is $27.00 and took about 4.5 hours to replace. I am going run it and to try to put the water around the joint and see what happens.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    That would be nice if that was all it was. It sounds like a good idea to try the water trick, so I'm going to do that this afternoon as well. I did a compression check this morning when the engine was cold, and here is what I got:

    Cyl #1 - 160
    Cyl #2 - 165
    Cyl #3 - 160
    Cyl #4 - 140

    I did it again when it was hot and got the following:

    Cyl #1 - 150
    Cyl #2 - 150
    Cyl #3 - 160
    Cyl #4 - 155

    The engine runs a lot better when it's warm, and the misfire code goes away. The only code left when the engine is hot is: P0507, Idle Air Control System RPM Higher Than Expected.
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    I believe this has nothing to do with your compression as this is happening on the intake side of the valves and your cyls are sealing based on your above compression readings. I run it and drizzeled water on cyl 1 intake at the head and it gurgles (sucking air), I have ordered an intake gasket will pick up this afternoon and start removing intake,I am sure this is the problem it is sucking air into cyl 1. Making the idle high. When done intalling I will post my findings.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    I spoke to a Saturn technician and verified the non-existence of an upstream O2 sensor on this particular vehicle. The car is a 2000 Saturn SL1, 4-door sedan. 1.9 Liter, SOHC.

    I think you are right though about the popping being a result of a lean mixture. I found there to be a leaky intake gasket, and spraying carb cleaner around it while the engine is running causes it to smooth out momentarily.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    Yup! I also had results when I tested my gasket yesterday. I sprayed carb cleaner around the gasket where the intake manifold meets the cylinder head. Sure enough, the engine smoothed out as long as I kept that nozzle pressed to spray the carb cleaner. I will order and pick up a gasket this week. (I can't do much today, being Sunday).
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    spoke to a Saturn technician and verified the non-existence of an upstream O2 sensor on this particular vehicle.
    You may want to find a new Saturn mechanic who has a clue.
    The upstream O2 sensor is located on teh exhaust manifold.
    It is defined as the O2S-1 sensor.

    The downstream sensor is located on the rear of the Cat and is defined as the HO2S-2 sensor.

    DO NOT REPLACE O2 sensors without verifying another problem first. Contrary to popular belief, O2 sensors should have an extremely long life, unless there is another problem present.
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    I pulled my intake manifold, the gasket had migrated into the #1 cyl intake. I called the Saturn dealer and they said there is a new part no. for the replacement gasket ($38.00), the guy said it is thicker. I asked if there was a service bulletin for this issue, he said there wasn't. I got my new (Felpro part no. MS 94286) gasket from a local auto parts ($19.85). Even if you look online at say Autoparts.com ($15.60) or others the gasket for 2000-2002 SOHC 1.9's use certain part no. and states "use until stock is depleated and then revert back to the 1995-2002 gasket which the part no. matches what the auto parts house got me(MS 94286). This new gasket is metal and coated on both sides with gray material with self sealing orange material around all the ports. The origional gasket was not metal, some sort of fiber and the heat some how made the gasket shrink around cyl 1, I believe as there is no stud on the outer upper portion of the port. I was not able to put it back together as on Saturday they gave me the gasket for the DOHC motor and had to get the proper on on Monday, today I am installing the new gasket and hope all is well, I just hope this hasn't done any damage to the valves or Cyl as I am sure it had to be running lean all this time.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    On Monday, I ordered a gasket from NAPA ($25.00) and it should be in by tomorrow (Wednesday). I won't get a chance to install it until Saturday. I hope it's better quality than the original.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    I doubt any damage has been done to your cylinders or valves as a result of it running lean. The main reason is because when you are driving the car down the road, the throttle position sensor is no longer at zero, and the O2 sensors are used to decide how much fuel and air to mix. If it is running lean, the O2 sensors should pick it up and make adjustments on the fly accordingly (using more fuel, which would explain poor fuel mileage). At idle, however, things are different and that's where it runs the most lean. Unless you have let it sit idling for hours, I wouldn't be too worried. If you still have concerns, do an oil seep test on your cylinders to check how well the rings are sealing. If the test is normal, there is nothing to worry about. Also, look at your spark plugs to check what condition they are in. Usually, you can tell by looking at the plugs how the car has been running. Check out this link for details: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Hello and Help:

    Trying to figure out why Check Engine light stays on - - replaced Idle Speed Air Valve Switch, replaced Oxygen Sensor, replaced Distributor Cap & Rotor.. #11 did not come back but Code #18 continues to haunt me..

    ANY IDEAS... The car idles around 5, dies when cold, dies when driving for awhile.. When it idles at 10, feels okay but light still on..

    It's been several months and I am concerned about continuing to drive w/Check Engine light still on..

    Thanks, Susan
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    What make and model is the car? How many miles?
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Hi:

    It's Mercedes 300 TE, 166K miles, 1992.. My regular mechanic was stumped; he replaced the distributor cap & rotor then sent me to Mercedes dealership which replaced the idle air valve switch and wanted way more money than I wanted to spend so went back to regular mechanic and he replaced oxygen sensor and frankly, he's stumped..

    Think Code #11 is gone but Code #18 still occurs.. So, any ideas for my regular mechanic would be greatly appreciated..

    Thanx, Susan
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    First thing we need to know is how they retrieved the codes.
    As the code 11 could have 2 meanings, depending on what you used to retrieve the codes.

    Have you cleared the codes and roadtested the vehicle to see what codes come back?
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Yes, he's roadtested it and Code #18 keeps coming back..
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    You didn't answer my questions.
    I can't help you if you don't help me with the information I asked for.
  • twest01twest01 Member Posts: 10
    Did you have any luck installing the gasket once they gave you the right one? I just got mine put back together yesterday using a Felpro gasket (and yes, with orange stuff around where it seals). I cleared my codes and they aren't back yet. The car idles smoothly and no longer misfires. As far as I can see, the problem is fixed. I'll post again if the engine light comes back on.
  • moparmaniamoparmania Member Posts: 9
    Yes, I got it going last tuesday, I had to take a day off work, because driving my F-150 at 16-17 mpg 102 miles round trip to work was killing me (@ $3.16 gal), my saturn gets 39-41 mpg. It runs smooth and now idles at 750. I drove it about round trip to work, I was assuming the codes would clear themselves. They didn't, so I cleared them wednesday and everythings good. I am supposing all 2000-2002 saturn SOHC owners are going to have this same problem.
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Let's see - it's a Mercedes, 1992, 166K miles, station wagon - 300 TE.. Check Engine light came on, mechanic retrieved codes from LED box under hood (California car).. Codes #11 and 18.. Replaced distributor cap and rotor, replaced idle valve switch, replaced oxygen sensor.. Roadtested car.. Code #11 disappeared, Code #18 still there, check engine light still on..

    Any ideas?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    If the code #18 was still there after he first fixed it and read the codes, why didn't he finish fixing it?
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    Well, code 18 is the Idle speed air valve circuit.
    The possiblilities could be a faulty air valve (if he replaced it with an aftermarket one, it may be half the problem) or one of two circuits are open.
    Your mechanic will need a wiring diagram and the flow chart, but he will need to check continuity at pin 23 of the CIS-E to pin 1 of the Idle speed air valve and pin 4 of the CIS-E to pin 2 of the Idle speed air valve.
    There should be less than 1 ohm in those circuits.
    If either circuit has more than 1 ohm, then there is an open in that circuit.
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Thank you very much.. I will let my mechanic know..
  • susanlouisesusanlouise Member Posts: 6
    Hello - would you have a copy of the wiring diagram? Also, what is the voltage of the wire going into the idle cylnoid supposed to be? And, is the unit, negative operate? or positive operate? by the computer? (questions from mechanic).

    Thank you.
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