Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

thebean · October 2015

A slight detour back to the burger/shake places, if I may. On the subject of Steak & Shake - why do they have a wait staff? It seems to me it would be better if you ordered at the counter and they called your number for pickup. When I'm going for that type of meal, I don't want to have to leave a tip. They have Steak & Shakes here in Texas, but I never go to them because of the tipping thing. I guess just call me cheap.

driver100 · October 2015

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I love that bridge though...The Sunshine Skyway Bridge, ....well worth the $1.50 toll.
In 1982 I visited Florida for the first time. We flew into Tampa and stayed with a friend of the family in St. Pete's the first couple of days. I remember when we took our rental car over the original Sunshine Skyway. It was terrifying, with the sharp up-and-down contour and the open grate deck, and seeing the abandoned section next to it with the center part missing after the ship disaster of a couple of years earlier. I have never been on the new one. It's funny because I usually have no issue with traversing large bridges (we have two locally) but this one just scared the heck out of me.

I have shown the Sunshine Skyway Bridge before, but not to over do it, but it is one of the great things about Tampa....what a beautiful bridge.

Most days there are boats, ships, airplanes, helicopters, sometimes cruise ships with perfectly blue water all around, and a blue sky with bright sun.

graphicguy · October 2015

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I love that bridge though...The Sunshine Skyway Bridge, ....well worth the $1.50 toll.
In 1982 I visited Florida for the first time. We flew into Tampa and stayed with a friend of the family in St. Pete's the first couple of days. I remember when we took our rental car over the original Sunshine Skyway. It was terrifying, with the sharp up-and-down contour and the open grate deck, and seeing the abandoned section next to it with the center part missing after the ship disaster of a couple of years earlier. I have never been on the new one. It's funny because I usually have no issue with traversing large bridges (we have two locally) but this one just scared the heck out of me.
I have shown the Sunshine Skyway Bridge before, but not to over do it, but it is one of the great things about Tampa....what a beautiful bridge.

Most days there are boats, ships, airplanes, helicopters, sometimes cruise ships with perfectly blue water all around, and a blue sky with bright sun.

Love that Driver. It's been several years since I've driven (or sailed) in, on or around that bridge. Breathtaking in person.

[Deleted User] · October 2015

Nice, Mike! Great to see some colors other than shades of gray, too. Ford is on decent product streak with the new F-150, Mustang, Fusion, SUVs and performance iterations of the Focus. Good styling, excellent handling for the class, and plenty of pep.

Neat bridge, Driver. I don't recall seeing it before, so I'm glad you re-posted. Interesting design in that the engineers switched from pylon supports to a suspended bridge and then back to pylons. Looks like there was a practical reason for doing so in order to allow for large ship traffic below the suspension pieces. From the traffic on the bridge and below in the water it looks well used.

ab348 · October 2015

This is the one I was referring to from 1982.

driver100 · October 2015

tyguy said:
Nice, Mike! Great to see some colors other than shades of gray, too. Ford is on decent product streak with the new F-150, Mustang, Fusion, SUVs and performance iterations of the Focus. Good styling, excellent handling for the class, and plenty of pep.

Neat bridge, Driver. I don't recall seeing it before, so I'm glad you re-posted. Interesting design in that the engineers switched from pylon supports to a suspended bridge and then back to pylons. Looks like there was a practical reason for doing so in order to allow for large ship traffic below the suspension pieces. From the traffic on the bridge and below in the water it looks well used.

That's interesting Ty. I will have to look that up to see why it is part pylon, part suspension. The bridge had to be high enough to let cruise ships into Tampa Bay.

I think the pylons are used on the lower parts not critical for large ships, and the suspension part is used to make a wide alley for large ships. Then, there are six dolphins, which are designed to withstand the impact of an 87,000t ship surrounding the bridge's piers.

driver100 · October 2015

ab348 said:
This is the one I was referring to from 1982.

Quite a difference in bridges!

robr2 · October 2015

driver100 said:
That's interesting Ty. I will have to look that up to see why it is part pylon, part suspension. The bridge had to be high enough to let cruise ships into Tampa Bay. Unfortunately, super size cruise ships won't fit under the bridge. They are considering making a newer cruise ship terminal just south of St. Petes/Tampa....they won't need to have a bridge at all.

My understanding is that cable stay bridge sections can span longer distances. The open span for ships is 50% wider than the old bridge which had been hit by a ship. Hence the decision for a wider span and the technology to achieve that span.

driver100 · October 2015

robr2 said:

driver100 said:
That's interesting Ty. I will have to look that up to see why it is part pylon, part suspension. The bridge had to be high enough to let cruise ships into Tampa Bay. Unfortunately, super size cruise ships won't fit under the bridge. They are considering making a newer cruise ship terminal just south of St. Petes/Tampa....they won't need to have a bridge at all.
My understanding is that cable stay bridge sections can span longer distances. The open span for ships is 50% wider than the old bridge which had been hit by a ship. Hence the decision for a wider span and the technology to achieve that span.

That sounds like it would make sense. Thanks....I learned something today......it will make me appreciate the bridge even more.

suydam · October 2015

thebean said:
A slight detour back to the burger/shake places, if I may. On the subject of Steak & Shake - why do they have a wait staff? It seems to me it would be better if you ordered at the counter and they called your number for pickup. When I'm going for that type of meal, I don't want to have to leave a tip. They have Steak & Shakes here in Texas, but I never go to them because of the tipping thing. I guess just call me cheap.

You can order at the counter if you want. I've done it either way.

thebean · October 2015

suydam said:
You can order at the counter if you want. I've done it either way.

Good to know. Thanks.

berri · October 2015

My favorite was my yellow 1965 with it's black vinyl top. I believe it had every option available. Power vent windows Twlight Sentinal, cruise, reverb and other stuff I can't remember.

It could lay rubber for half a block and go through a quarter tank of gas doing that.

When I was in the military, my roommate drove a 63 Riv. Leather interior - nice car in kind of a bronze color. He had this habit of always running it with very little fuel. A couple of times he ran out of gas on dates and I always thought smooth move buddy. But now I'm learning that those fuel run outs may have been legit! At least it happened with wheels down

berri · October 2015

I've driven the old and new Skyway Bridge over the years and I always enjoyed both (but I was much younger on the old one).

cdnpinhead · October 2015

ab348 said:
This is the one I was referring to from 1982.

Yeah, that's the one I've been over a number of times, usually pulling a 42' trailer (loaded with one big boat or quite a few smaller ones). . .back in the day. I remember being in a motel in Tampa when the U.S. beat the USSR in hockey during the Olympics.

driver100 · October 2015

My good neighbor who has the 2008 Jetta diesel wagon, and was going to get a new VW diesel has decided to keep his Jetta for now.

He was coming down the street, and I was going in the opposite direction. He put down his window and I put down mine, and he said, Was I sure my car wasn't a diesel because it sounded like one...which was pretty funny.

I told him he should get his polluter off the road......that quietened him down a bit.

dino001 · October 2015

I believe '08 Jetta is the previous generation (1.9), not subject of the current inquiry. Nominally, "less clean", bu who know how good/bad it really is in comparison. Calling it a "polluter" may be a bit harsh in context of this.

BTW, I wonder how the old diesels take the new low sulfur fuel. Sulfur acts as a lubricant to those old engines. Were there some adapter kits?

driver100 · October 2015

dino001 said:
I believe '08 Jetta is the previous generation (1.9), not subject of the current inquiry. Nominally, "less clean", bu who know how good/bad it really is in comparison. Calling it a "polluter" may be a bit harsh in context of this.

BTW, I wonder how the old diesels take the new low sulfur fuel. Sulfur acts as a lubricant to those old engines. Were there some adapter kits?

I should explain....it was all said in fun.

Saying my E400 gas engine sounded like a diesel engine was just as harsh. We both laughed.

But, that is an interesting point I didn't think about. I guess his 2008 may have been at an OK level of pollution at the time. But, I still like to make him feel guilty...and he got the payback joke.

dino001 · October 2015

Actually, I checked back - Jetta didn't have a diesel in 2008. 2009 was the first "new TDI" year, whereas the last year for the old TDI was 2006. So he probably has the "tainted" model.

driver100 · October 2015

dino001 said:
Actually, I checked back - Jetta didn't have a diesel in 2008. 2009 was the first "new TDI" year, whereas the last year for the old TDI was 2006. So he probably has the "tainted" model.

Good, when I see him again I'll tell him he should get his old polluter off the road.

They traded in their (really her car) beautiful little Golf GTI and got a BMW electric car which they love. It won't go too far on a charge but she uses it to get to work and back each day, about 30 miles round trip. Not too much leeway if you want to go on a long trip and say the Jetta needs a repair.

My friend who has the Audi R8 says he can't get an electric car until they can go further on a charge. Because of his Obsessive Compulsive disorder he would always be fearful of running out of charge....as it is he has to keep his gas tank 3/4s full.

abacomike · October 2015

The Mercedes-Benz direct injection engines DO SOUND LIKE DIESELS! They have since 2012. Not as harsh a sound, but definitely not a quiet engine!

dino001 · October 2015

driver100 said:

My friend who has the Audi R8 says he can't get an electric car until they can go further on a charge. Because of his Obsessive Compulsive disorder he would always be fearful of running out of charge....as it is he has to keep his gas tank 3/4s full.

This means that on his R8 he must be looking for a gas station 3 blocks away from his home

robr2 · October 2015

All direct engines have that clackety clackety dieselesque sound. Some manufacturers tend to mask it better. My understanding is the noise is due to the higher pressure the fuel is under - much closer to the fuel pressure of a diesel.

oldfarmer50 · October 2015

driver100 said:
My good neighbor who has the 2008 Jetta diesel wagon, and was going to get a new VW diesel has decided to keep his Jetta for now.

He was coming down the street, and I was going in the opposite direction. He put down his window and I put down mine, and he said, Was I sure my car wasn't a diesel because it sounded like one...which was pretty funny.

I told him he should get his polluter off the road......that quietened him down a bit.

I heard thst Hollywood is already planning a movie on the VW scandal. They just love trashing any capitalist while being the most greedy business on the planet.

abacomike · October 2015

robr2 said:
All direct engines have that clackety clackety dieselesque sound. Some manufacturers tend to mask it better. My understanding is the noise is due to the higher pressure the fuel is under - much closer to the fuel pressure of a diesel.

Exactly. The Mercedes V-6's (3.0 and 3.5) have that ticking sound that resembles the new quieter diesel engines. Mention of the similarity in engines (gas/diesel) was published in C&D, CR and even Edmunds back in 2012/2013. That same sound in a 1980 Olds or Ford or "whatever" would resemble a problem with "lifters"! Today, it's just "natural" in the direct injection engines.

abacomike · October 2015

There was a lengthy article in my local newspaper this morning in the business section about today's technology in most new vehicles. The article cited government studies, the results of which statistically proved fewer accidents in vehicles equipped with "active" Lane Tracking and Blind Spot Monitors (the car is forced back into a lane through adaptive braking to avoid a collision with an oncoming car in the "blind spot" or movement out of a lane), adaptive cruise control with auto-braking, accident avoidance systems with active braking, etc. But the article cited a serious problem - not enough drivers in possession of these new technologies know how they work or how to use them!!!

The rest of the article examined the changes in the size of the average owner's manual - from 50-60 pages in the 1970's and 1980's to over 500 pages in many of today's new cars. The article further indicated that more training was necessary by automobile dealership personnel when a new car is sold with these safety features. But few, if any, dealerships do a competent job of training their customers.

Mercedes actually reduced their manuals from 2 thick ones to one with 250 pages. Most details about safety features and technologies are on the hard-drive of the vehicle and must be accessed through the NAV/GPS screen.

After reading the article, I began to think about 70-80 year old drivers buying a car equipped with these new features and having no idea what the features are or how to use them. It's one thing to have a car equipped nicely with these new technologies - it's quite another when you consider the fact that 50% of the owners of these equipped cars have no idea about their use or shut the safety features down because they don't want to be bothered.

I used my adaptive cruise control and active lane keeping and blind spot monitors on the round trip to see my brother last week and there were several times when these features helped me avoid some nasty situations, especially with trucks and speeding cars.

In conclusion, the article emphasized the need for not only equipping all vehicles with these advanced safety technologies, but also the need to properly and adequately train new car buyers on how to use them and what flashing dash lights or "beeps" mean when they enunciate. The article sure made a lot of sense.

robr2 · October 2015

oldfarmer50 said:
I heard thst Hollywood is already planning a movie on the VW scandal. They just love trashing any capitalist while being the most greedy business on the planet.

To be fair, it may never become a movie. Entertainment companies option books early in their life in order to beat out other people. Leonardo DiCaprio optioned the rights to a book proposal by Jack Ewing. The book hasn't even been written.

Take the new Steve Jobs movie that just came out. The book came out in 2011 and Sony optioned it. Aaron Sorkin was named the screenwriter in May of 2012. It took over 3 years for a script and production.

suydam · October 2015

Don't sell the 70 year olds short! We are getting to the point now where most people understand technology and how to use it. I notice sales personnel now just show where the cruise control and such are located because they know most people are familiar with it. Where they do spend time is with the infotainment center because those differ so much. And other new safety stuff like Blind Spot or Lane Watch -- they explained that too. The more it becomes standardized the easier it will be.

Some companies like Honda give out shortcut manuals for frequently accessed items along with the humongous manual.

driver100 · October 2015

abacomike said:
The Mercedes-Benz direct injection engines DO SOUND LIKE DIESELS! They have since 2012. Not as harsh a sound, but definitely not a quiet engine!

Thanks to you and rob for explaining.......I wondered why the engine was fairly noisy in my E.

No matter what age you are, the rear camera and blind spot warning device doesn't need much training to use and operate.

I did suggest to my Mercedes dealership they would really develop very loyal customers if they had a 2 hour course a few times a week for new owners, just to acquaint them with the cars features. It is too much to learn when you pick up the car and more questions develop later. It would bond new car buyers to their dealership and they may meet some new people who are like minded. I'd love to go and find out about things the car has that I don't even know about.

suydam · October 2015

My Buick sales guy spent some time showing me the features and then just gave me his cell # and told me to swing by if I couldn't figure something out or forgot. And I did a couple of times. I'd rather do that than have to go to a time specific course myself.

cdnpinhead · October 2015

Well, either you drive the car or it drives you. It's clear that I differ from others on this board regarding which is preferable.

I spent most of my driving life in the wide open spaces of western Canada and/or the U.S. It appears to me that most of this stuff has to do with dealing with other nearby vehicles. Avoid them, at all costs.

Drive in rural Nevada and Oregon or, failing that, live in the country.

I know, I know, but it all started with run-flat tires (totally unacceptable in the rural West, where none of the five open service stops in 800 miles stocks them). Now we are here.

I don't like here. It sounds like many do.

Party on.

oldfarmer50 · October 2015

cdnpinhead said:
Well, either you drive the car or it drives you. It's clear that I differ from others on this board regarding which is preferable.

I spent most of my driving life in the wide open spaces of western Canada and/or the U.S. It appears to me that most of this stuff has to do with dealing with other nearby vehicles. Avoid them, at all costs.

Drive in rural Nevada and Oregon or, failing that, live in the country.

I know, I know, but it all started with run-flat tires (totally unacceptable in the rural West, where none of the five open service stops in 800 miles stocks them). Now we are here.

I don't like here. It sounds like many do.

Party on.

I'm with you. Don't want all that stuff. A car is a driving machine, not a video game.

stever · October 2015

Well, it's pretty easy to ease across the white line on those backroads and the alarm can come in handy for that.

I destroyed a sidewall years ago hitting something on the shoulder and I wasn't that far to the right.

abacomike · October 2015

By having the Driver's Assistance Package on my car, I not only have added safety features, but I save $96.00 every 6 months on my auto insurance. Having MBrace which locates my car if it is ever stolen, I save another $45.00 every 6 months. Finally, by taking the Defensive Driver Course every 3 years, I save another $65.00 every 6 months. That's above and beyond the normal discounts. When you live in a heavily populated area, auto insurance becomes extremely costly. I pay twice as much as my brother and he has an almost identical car except for the Driver's Assistance Package.

Remember, in order for the active Lane Tracking system to work, white or yellow painted lane stripes on both sides of the road are required.

driver100 · October 2015

suydam said:
My Buick sales guy spent some time showing me the features and then just gave me his cell # and told me to swing by if I couldn't figure something out or forgot. And I did a couple of times. I'd rather do that than have to go to a time specific course myself.

I can do the same, drop in, phone, or email and get info.....but, some things I wouldn't even know to ask, and often, I don't want to bother my sales person all the time....he has to make a living too.

roadburner · October 2015

oldfarmer50 said:
I'm with you. Don't want all that stuff. A car is a driving machine, not a video game.

That's one of the things I disliked about the X6 I drove at the press intro. On twisty two lanes the safety nannies were working overtime. Of course, in typical cryptic German fashion it was impossible to figure out how to disable them- I had to pull over and access the owners manual through the iDrive interface to finally shut them all off.

[Deleted User] · October 2015

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:
I'm with you. Don't want all that stuff. A car is a driving machine, not a video game.
That's one of the things I disliked about the X6 I drove at the press intro. On twisty two lanes the safety nannies were working overtime. Of course, in typical cryptic German fashion it was impossible to figure out how to disable them- I had to pull over and access the owners manual through the iDrive interface to finally shut them all off.

Must be a BMW thing. Subaru Eyesight recognizes curvy roads and doesn't alarm when you cross a line, which is a nice feature. My only annoyance is when I hit construction that forces you over lines and the system activates, or when I come across the many cyclists in Fort Collins riding two-lane roads and I cross the center line to give them plenty of room. It's a very minor annoyance and I positively love the safety features. I won't buy another car without them.

nyccarguy · October 2015

@tyguy
I read up on the eyesight technology and was excited to purchase my Legacy with it. However, due to the initial high demand for the eyesight system and the fact that I needed a car (my lease was up) sooner than an eyesight equipped Legacy would be available, I purchased my 2015 Legacy sans the eyesight package. The eyesight technology is fantastic. For what Subaru charges for the eyesight package, it is a bargain. That being said, I'm happy with my Legacy's visibility, oversized mirrors, and excellent backup camera.

driver100 · October 2015

nyccarguy said:
@tyguy
I read up on the eyesight technology and was excited to purchase my Legacy with it. However, due to the initial high demand for the eyesight system and the fact that I needed a car (my lease was up) sooner than an eyesight equipped Legacy would be available, I purchased my 2015 Legacy sans the eyesight package. The eyesight technology is fantastic. For what Subaru charges for the eyesight package, it is a bargain. That being said, I'm happy with my Legacy's visibility, oversized mirrors, and excellent backup camera.

And, there is an ad running in our local newspaper....it says.....

Suburu Reliability!

97% of all Suburus in Canada are still on the road, over the last 10 years.

That's remarkable, I wonder how many of the remaining 3% were totalled.

robr2 · October 2015

driver100 said:
And, there is an ad running in our local newspaper....it says.....

Suburu Reliability!

97% of all Suburus in Canada are still on the road, over the last 10 years.

That's remarkable, I wonder how many of the remaining 3% were totalled.

That's because most Subaru owners are cheap and use bailing wire and bubble gum to keep their cars on the road!!

JK - Subarus have proven to be a reliable car for those that keep them long term. Here in New England, they are all over the place.

cdnpinhead · October 2015

Colorado too.

graphicguy · October 2015

"And the beat goes on....."

The Better Business Bureau, which Cadillac insists on working through as an arbitration vehicle (and is also paid by GM to do so), set up an arbitration hearing on my Cadillac last week. They have an arcane web site to log in to (which is the opposite of "user friendly" to see what/where/when about your case.

After logging in, they had scheduled my hearing, on 10/22, during the day (one would think that if people are working, they'd have evening arbittrations, but they don't). So happens, I can't make it on 10/22 as I'm out of town for work.

Reschedule would be the right thing to do, right? Well, Cadillac doesn't want to reschedule. The only alternative is to start all over and refile the entire case, with all new paperwork, all "original" receipts filed, all phone conversations logged, etc, sent to them.

Sorry, I have tried to remain positive and to keep my criticisms to just my car. Not doing it any more. Cadillac is a joke of a brand. Anyone considering buying one, stay away. Buy an Acura, a Lexus, a BMW, even a Lincoln. Do not, under any circumstances buy anything from Cadillac. Products are unreliable. Their customer service is even worse.

No wonder they can't sell anything!!!!!!!!!!! I was a fool for doing business with them.

stickguy · October 2015

So are you caving and rescheduling a day of work, or willing to start from scratch? Or going ballistic on the BBB?

I'm sure that someplace in the rules it states caddy can do this. And no chance they will waive the opportunity.

js06gv · October 2015

graphicguy said:
"And the beat goes on....."

The Better Business Bureau, which Cadillac insists on working through as an arbitration vehicle (and is also paid by GM to do so), set up an arbitration hearing on my Cadillac last week. They have an arcane web site to log in to (which is the opposite of "user friendly" to see what/where/when about your case.

After logging in, they had scheduled my hearing, on 10/22, during the day (one would think that if people are working, they'd have evening arbittrations, but they don't). So happens, I can't make it on 10/22 as I'm out of town for work.

Reschedule would be the right thing to do, right? Well, Cadillac doesn't want to reschedule. The only alternative is to start all over and refile the entire case, with all new paperwork, all "original" receipts filed, all phone conversations logged, etc, sent to them.

Sorry, I have tried to remain positive and to keep my criticisms to just my car. Not doing it any more. Cadillac is a joke of a brand. Anyone considering buying one, stay away. Buy an Acura, a Lexus, a BMW, even a Lincoln. Do not, under any circumstances buy anything from Cadillac. Products are unreliable. Their customer service is even worse.

No wonder they can't sell anything!!!!!!!!!!! I was a fool for doing business with them.

It's long been one of my dreams to, at some point, pick up a gently used, unmolested (assuming there is such a thing...) CTS-V of the '09-'14 vintage. The new one coming out, after an couple years in the market, would be even better. Reading your story over the past few months has sealed the deal that neither of those will happen. I'm truly sorry for the immense aggravation you have been put through.

Whoever would have figured that the safest bet within the Cadillac stable would be the Escalade due to the proven Tahoe/Suburban guts? I offer this as opinion, not fact. I realize stories like yours exist with every manufacturer but you have been run through the ringer at every turn, and the "answers" you've been given are nothing short of ridiculous. I've been treated better by a dealer when I had a new $9,995 '91 Ford Ranger at the age of 21, when expectations of customer service were nothing like they are today. And that was about as far away from a premium brand or model as you could get!

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

I offered an opinion some years back, half in jest, that the only way for Cadillac to re-capture a place in the luxury car market was to fire all its dealers. Now I'm thinking I knew more than I thought at the time.

qbrozen · October 2015

Well, at this point, GG isn't even dealing with his service dept. Its directly with Caddy.

For what its worth, my dealer has been great so far. But I haven't had any problems, either, so its not a totally fair assessment.

GG, what does BBB say about this reschedule? Seems pretty ridiculous that there is no way you have a choice as to the date. Can someone go in your place? Someone you deem as your representative? Maybe give them power of attorney in this matter?

js06gv · October 2015

My last post got me thinking about the brand I've owned the most of in the 30 years I've been driving, which ended up being Ford. Fifty percent of my current fleet is Ford as well. Even so, I don't consider myself a "Ford guy." At one time in my life, I had four GM vehicles in the driveway. I don't rule out the possibility that I'll own another GM in the future; in fact I have several thousand dollars of GM points collecting dust. It would've been easy to spend them, but it just so happened that when shopping both for a performance car and a truck, I preferred a Mustang over a Camaro and an F-150 over a Silverado.

I guess my point is, I buy what I like and how I've been treated throughout the ownership experience will definitely factor into future purchases. Although it's been a popular opinion on internet forums for years, I didn't purchase Fords because they didn't take bailout money when other manufacturers did. I simply went for what I believed offered the best value based on my needs. I've also owned some Fords in the past that I didn't care for much a couple years into ownership and traded them out earlier than usual.

My F-150 and the two Mustangs we've owned all had some issues that were well known by Ford. The first Mustang had a solenoid problem with some of the transmission gears, and the second one was afflicted with a horrible brake squeal at low speeds. On the F-150, it developed the usual two problems that most do, a clunk in the steering rack and a driveshaft "bump." In a perfect world, Ford would have issued recalls for these but instead there were TSBs that one would have to know about in order to get them fixed. In my experience, that's no different than most if not all other manufacturers. With the amount of information available on the internet (factual or not), consumers who even notice issues such as mine will do the research by frequenting boards such as this one and bring them to the attention of the dealer. For the four problems mentioned above, I simply waved the TSBs I printed out at the dealer and all were resolved with no pushback, drama, or dancing around. This was also across 3 Ford dealers, as I've tried several of those local to me to compare. None of them blew my socks off, but all were competent, courteous and efficient. I also wasn't expecting Lexus or Cadillac levels of service, although at list prices of 38K and 43K for the Mustangs and 48K for the truck we're hardly talking chump change either. I just expected "service" and in my case, between the manufacturer and several dealers collectively knowing their product, that's exactly what I got.

Mr_Shiftright · October 2015

I understand your point, that there are individual dealers who are pretty good but all in all there is a collective dealer/factory consciousness that goes something like this:

When you buy the car, the dealer touts his factory trained technicians, his pride in the brand. The factory touts their quality, their newfound dedication to being the best in the world, their technology.

Then, when you have a big problem, suddenly the dealer techs are 'stumped", and they "will ask" Cadillac for assistance. And suddenly the factory tells you "well, our dealers are independent franchisees, so there's only so much we can control".

This is ingrained cultural malaise IMO and that's why all the dealers have to be fired and fresh new faces with new habits and a new way of doing business put in their place.

The correct answer for the person who is suffering a legitimate disaster is "the factory and the dealership will make this right for you".

mako1a · October 2015

GG, send your lawyer. That's what he's there for. You should be home relaxing while he flexes your muscles.

stever · October 2015

>>97% of all Suburus in Canada are still on the road, over the last 10 years.

I dunno, the average age of cars and trucks in the US is 11.4 years.

"Sixteen-year-old cars and trucks make up 21.1 percent of vehicles in the U.S. as owners embrace the idea of driving their car well past the 100,000 mile mark.

How many of these "pre-'99" models are still around?

53.3 million." (NBC)

Ford used to run a similar ad about their pickups back in the 80s iirc. Ten years is nothing - I'd hope that most cars built in 2005 were still on the road.

Michaell · October 2015

cdnpinhead said:
Colorado too.

Oh yes, absolutely.

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