Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97 · March 2016

Speaking of Pie City, Monday is π Day. 3/14 at 15:96.

driver100 · March 2016

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Mike, about this bmw lease. Just an opinion, but, aren't some leases closed ended, in that you don't have the option to buy at the end of the lease. The dealer may offer a lower price for the car if they know they can have it back and resell it at the end of the lease.

If you have a contract that states the price of the car at the end of the lease and that you can buy it then I would assume you have a contract and an option to buy if you choose to exercise that option.

At least that's what I have learned by watching Judge Judy and Hot Bend leases are very, very rare.

As for the agreed price to buy the car at the end of the open-ended lease, if the car has a defect and is still under warranty, but the fix for the defect is months off in the future, the car cannot be sold until the defect is eliminated. But, as I mentioned before, a hold-harmless agreement would relieve BMWFS of the liability, IMHO. However, knowingly selling a defective or potentially defective vehicle may be governed by federal and State law.

My guess is that is the reason BMWFS will not sell the car.

Makes sense...but, bmw should have to fulfill their end of the lease too. Possibly extend the lease with a new buy back price.

It doesn't seem fair the car buyer should lose out because of a defect he had no control over.

The hold-harmless agreement is not reasonable, because if the guy was injured by an airbag he would not be able to sue, that could be a big mistake.

As they say on the Judge Shows....this guy has to be made whole again......he has lost out through no fault of his own.

js06gv · March 2016

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
Saves the cost and weight of a spare. More trunk room. And in a pinch, you can limp someplace without having to change to the spare.
My Ford only has a can of fix-a-flat and an air pump. Spare was an option. According to the registration it weighs less than the official figures by about 100 pounds. That's some heavy tire.

@oldfarmer50, is the trunk deeper than usual or is there an extra well of storage without the spare? Curious as mine has the "optional" spare taking up space in the usual spot.

graphicguy · March 2016

I think abacomike is right on this. It's not the owner's car. It belongs to BMWFS. As such, they can choose to sell, or not sell it at the end of the lease. For all intents and purposes, consider it a long term rental that the rental company wants back.

driver....the OP is not out any money at the end of the lease that's outside of the lease agreement. Once the lease is completed, the "contract" between him and BMWFS is done, both sides are whole.

I would take advantage of the 2 month lease extension offer, though. That allows you to shop for your new ride without having to be in a hurry.

BMW, Honda, or whomever is Takata's customers are looking out for liabilities. Any Takata airbag failure is going to cause due harm to the drivers, passengers, the car companies that use them, and countless others.

Personally, replacing airbags are a big job in any car. If you have them replaced, who knows how many connections, rattles, etc will be overlooked in the process. In many of these instances, the entire dash assembly and the associated components must be removed.

berri · March 2016

Read recently, maybe WSJ?, that Takata is exploring restructuring options. This airbag thing is going to be a long term mess.

Michaell · March 2016

Are you all sharing your opinions in the thread the OP opened?

abacomike · March 2016

Michaell said:

Are you all sharing your opinions in the thread the OP opened?

I already did my duty! My "dues" for March.

coldinohio · March 2016

was at local launch for audi 2017 a4 ;

appears lower and longer and ? wider than the 2014 several of us have; nice looking

no manual tranny

has the fixed 'navi/mmi' display mid dash

driver100 · March 2016

graphicguy said:
I think abacomike is right on this. It's not the owner's car. It belongs to BMWFS. As such, they can choose to sell, or not sell it at the end of the lease. For all intents and purposes, consider it a long term rental that the rental company wants back.

driver....the OP is not out any money at the end of the lease that's outside of the lease agreement. Once the lease is completed, the "contract" between him and BMWFS is done, both sides are whole.

.

But GG, whenever I leased a car I always insisted on a buy back option. It is right there in the contract, this is your monthly payment, this is how much you will pay for the car if you choose to buy it at the end of the lease.

Unless there is fine print that says they have the option to cancel I don't see how they can refuse to sell you the car.

I would only lease the car with a buy back option, for one thing, if it is a good car I may want it. If I am over on mileage, I may want to buy it and drive it rather than pay out for extra mileage.

BMW may not be able to sell a car with a faulty airbag, but they have not completed their part of the sale. At some point, they have to fix the airbags anyway to resell the car.....they should come up with a satisfactory solution, and Takata should be responsible for any extra expenses. The way it is now, the customer loses through no fault of his own.

snakeweasel · March 2016

abacomike said:
Don't forget to move your watches and clocks AHEAD 1-hour before going to sleep tonight. We wouldn't want to be late for church tomorrow morning, now would we?

In my car, I have the daylight savings option on so tomorrow morning the clock in the car should be correct. I have a quartz analog clock in the center of the dashboard and several digital readouts on both info screens.

Now finally the clock in my car will be correct.

isellhondas · March 2016

suydam said:
I know people worry about it, but I can't even remember the last time I had a flat tire.

Careful now....I said the same thing a couple of years ago and got a call from my wife the NEXT DAY telling me that her CRV was sitting in the garage with a flat.

About five years ago, I was at our local watering hole chatting with some guys about Jury Duty. I told them that my wife had been called three times in the past ten years and I had NEVER ONCE been called.

THAT AFTERNOON, guess what was in the mail addressed to ME?

stever · March 2016

I was just complaining to my wife that I never win the Powerball....

berri · March 2016

I have a friend that moved when he retired some years ago. He never registered to vote because he believes that most politicians are self serving liars, crooks and opportunists (can't really argue his point), but apparently many states combine driver's license and voter registration to pull jurors. He's never been called up.

isellhondas · March 2016

I recently heard of a person who has ignored Jury Duty Summons four or five times. I can see trashing one of these and if caught just saying they never received it but not four or five times.

I guess they never came after him.

snakeweasel · March 2016

isellhondas said:

suydam said:
I know people worry about it, but I can't even remember the last time I had a flat tire.
Careful now....I said the same thing a couple of years ago and got a call from my wife the NEXT DAY telling me that her CRV was sitting in the garage with a flat.

About five years ago, I was at our local watering hole chatting with some guys about Jury Duty. I told them that my wife had been called three times in the past ten years and I had NEVER ONCE been called.

THAT AFTERNOON, guess what was in the mail addressed to ME?

All this talk about flats and us wanting the spare and I just thought motorcyclists don't carry spares.

Now on my bicycle I carry a spare tube, patches and CO2 canisters for such an event.

snakeweasel · March 2016

OK someone is working overtime. I just hit the request a quote button for a Honda (might have a sales story in the next couple of months) and I just got an email from the internet manager even though the dealership is closed today.

stickguy · March 2016

you can push your motorcycle home. Try that with a car!

abacomike · March 2016

snakeweasel said:

OK someone is working overtime. I just hit the request a quote button for a Honda (might have a sales story in the next couple of months) and I just got an email from the internet manager even though the dealership is closed today.

That's great, snake! Just leave us all hanging on for dear life on a cliff during an earthquake and a thunderstorm!

explorerx4 · March 2016

Not sure why, but I've had a hard time getting pictures of the NKC.
Got one, so I'm posting it.

oldfarmer50 · March 2016

js06gv said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:
Saves the cost and weight of a spare. More trunk room. And in a pinch, you can limp someplace without having to change to the spare.
My Ford only has a can of fix-a-flat and an air pump. Spare was an option. According to the registration it weighs less than the official figures by about 100 pounds. That's some heavy tire.

@oldfarmer50, is the trunk deeper than usual or is there an extra well of storage without the spare? Curious as mine has the "optional" spare taking up space in the usual spot.

The well is there for a spare but instead of a tire there is a plastic case that holds the tire patch kit. Wouldn't take much to put a real tire in there.

oldfarmer50 · March 2016

isellhondas said:
I recently heard of a person who has ignored Jury Duty Summons four or five times. I can see trashing one of these and if caught just saying they never received it but not four or five times.

I guess they never came after him.

If they went after everyone who ignored a jury summons there would be no one left to sit on jurys.

When called once I told the judge that a week away from the farm would ruin me financially and I was excused. Learned later on that the best way to be dismissed is to state that you already formed an opinion on the case. I was never called again.

Wouldn't mind serving now that I'm semi-retired.

snakeweasel · March 2016

stickguy said:
you can push your motorcycle home. Try that with a car!

Yeah if you're a few blocks from home. Ever try pushing a motorcycle 100 miles?

suydam · March 2016

I used to work registering people to vote. So many folks told me they wouldn't register because they didn't want to be called for jury duty. That still amazes me. You'd give up your right to political representation because maybe one or twice in your life you might be inconvenienced?

oldfarmer50 · March 2016

explorerx4 said:
Not sure why, but I've had a hard time getting pictures of the NKC.
Got one, so I'm posting it.

Yikes, black in CT with the salty roads? Did you hire a professional wash boy to keep it clean? Nice looking though.

snakeweasel · March 2016

abacomike said:

snakeweasel said:

OK someone is working overtime. I just hit the request a quote button for a Honda (might have a sales story in the next couple of months) and I just got an email from the internet manager even though the dealership is closed today.

That's great, snake! Just leave us all hanging on for dear life on a cliff during an earthquake and a thunderstorm!

OK will do. If I pull the trigger (and that is a strong "if") it won't be until after tax season is over, maybe May. Anyways you guys might not be interested since it is a CTX 700 DCT.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2016

imidazol97 · March 2016

oldfarmer50 said:
.Wouldn't mind serving now that I'm semi-retired.

Contact your jury pool office. Ask to have your name put into the pool. I knew of a guy who was
a history teacher who had never been called for jury duty and would love to serve.

abacomike · March 2016

snakeweasel said:

snakeweasel said:

OK someone is working overtime. I just hit the request a quote button for a Honda (might have a sales story in the next couple of months) and I just got an email from the internet manager even though the dealership is closed today.

That's great, snake! Just leave us all hanging on for dear life on a cliff during an earthquake and a thunderstorm!
OK will do. If I pull the trigger (and that is a strong "if") it won't be until after tax season is over, maybe May. Anyways you guys might not be interested since it is a CTX 700 DCT.

You're right - not interested!

driver100 · March 2016

explorerx4 said:
Not sure why, but I've had a hard time getting pictures of the NKC.
Got one, so I'm posting it.

I only see the front 1/3rd but it looks really nice so far.

abacomike · March 2016

driver100 said:

Not sure why, but I've had a hard time getting pictures of the NKC. Got one, so I'm posting it.
I only see the front 1/3rd but it looks really nice so far.

Speak for yourself, driver. We all see the entire vehicle. We've told you time and time again - you are blind in your left eye! Make an appointment to have that looked into - we're all worried now!

imidazol97 · March 2016

suydam said:
I used to work registering people to vote. So many folks told me they wouldn't register because they didn't want to be called for jury duty. That still amazes me. You'd give up your right to political representation because maybe one or twice in your life you might be inconvenienced?

X2

graphicguy · March 2016

Snake...lo ve the look of your Lincoln!

Driver....I should defer to you and others who know leases. I've only leased once, and it was a long time ago!

stickguy · March 2016

I like getting called for Jury duty. Get to spend a day getting paid to sit around and read a book, without feeling guilty about it!

Michaell · March 2016

I've gotten jury notification three times – once was for federal court about the time that Terry Nichols was going up on trial for the OKC bombings. One day of jury duty is probably OK; a six-month trial is a completely different story

stickguy · March 2016

no, I don't want a big trial! I have only ever gotten called for petit jury (local county stuff). It is 1 day or 1 trial. if you show up and don't get on a jury, you are done. if you do, you are stuck for the duration, but most don't go all that long.

dino001 · March 2016

I'm still mystified with American justice system, letting some unqualified people to decide about guilt or innocence of some person. It was perhaps a good idea in 18th and 19th Century in response to real and peceived injustice from King's judges, but not in the modern world it deevolved into selection of those who are easy to manipulate and nothing to do at the same time, the exact opposite from what we want from a juror. If called, I'd serve, but I think it's not a good system. Moreover, as an engineer, I'm most likely to be excused, anyway, by either party. Or perhaps second most, after lawyers. Last thing they want is somebody knowing the law, or knowing how to draw conclusions based on facts, not emotions.

cdnpinhead · March 2016

A jury of your ones peers. Nice concept.

Worked out OK for Mr. Simpson and some others

Go figure.

dino001 · March 2016

stickguy said:
I like getting called for Jury duty. Get to spend a day getting paid to sit around and read a book, without feeling guilty about it!

Not all employers pay. Large companies usually do, I know somebody sitting on a federal grand jury for whole year, up to one day a week (the pool is larger, so he can get off more often than not), they'd cover everything. However, my second employer would not pay a dime. My third split a difference - up to five days in three year period.

driver100 · March 2016

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:
Not sure why, but I've had a hard time getting pictures of the NKC.
Got one, so I'm posting it.

I only see the front 1/3rd but it looks really nice so far.

Speak for yourself, driver. We all see the entire vehicle. We've told you time and time again - you are blind in your left eye! Make an appointment to have that looked into - we're all worried now!

I guess you have a wide screen computer,,,,mine is analog.

berri · March 2016

Personally, my experiences on juries have not been great. Most of the time just milled around for hours in a waiting area while the bureaucracy poked along before releasing you. The two I served on had people that had evidently made their mind up at the outset and wouldn't even consider listening to the other points of views, as well as a couple of know it all's who wanted to take the whole thing over. Both ended up hung. I don't know why the rule is all jurors must agree rather than a super majority. Actually, I think the current system can entice jurors to just cave in order to go home which is probably less fair to the person on trial than a unanimous decision requirement. I believe a lot of time and money is wasted under the current system with re-trials. Good for the legal profession pocketbooks though I suppose.

oldfarmer50 · March 2016

berri said:
Personally, my experiences on juries have not been great. Most of the time just milled around for hours in a waiting area while the bureaucracy poked along before releasing you. The two I served on had people that had evidently made their mind up at the outset and wouldn't even consider listening to the other points of views, as well as a couple of know it all's who wanted to take the whole thing over. Both ended up hung. I don't know why the rule is all jurors must agree rather than a super majority. Actually, I think the current system can entice jurors to just cave in order to go home which is probably less fair to the person on trial than a unanimous decision requirement. I believe a lot of time and money is wasted under the current system with re-trials. Good for the legal profession pocketbooks though I suppose.

I think I told this before but I'm old so I'll tell it again...

My wife sat on a jury for the trial of a guy who was accused of robbing a suspected drug dealer. I sat in the court for part of it and the prosecution made a pretty good circumstantial case.

While the jury was deliberating I went for a walk and as I rounded a corner and almost bumped into the defendant and his "crew". He was certainly not the boy scout the defense made him out to be. I figured a slam dunk guilty verdict.

Nope.

Seemed that the jury was composed of a lot of school teachers off for summer vacation who as you said took over the class and substituted their opinion for the facts. My wife and one other woman were totally convince of the defendants guilt but the other 10 wouldn't listen and the 2 eventually gave up.

Outside the courtroom the defendants buddies were laughing and high fiving each other in disbelief.

graphicguy · March 2016

My pet...oil business.....

I see prices creeping up. But, the fundamentals that came to prevail, are again being ignored. Oil industry just doesn't seem to get it. I saw one prediction state electric cars may capture 10% of the TAM (Total Available Market) in 5 years. How does the industry ignore these trends? They've seen what's happened to their market. Instead of adjusting to the market, they're still trying to manipulate it. Unbelievable.

http://peakoil.com/consumption/oil-prices-should-fall-possibly-hard

suydam · March 2016

Odd, because attorneys often don't want teachers on a jury. Precisely because they don't tend to substitute opinions for facts. Yours sounds like a rather atypical case. I know people who have sat on juries. It can be very difficult hearing conflicting evidence and sorting it all out. A friend of mine agonkzed for years after a trial in which he was certain the accused was guilty, but didn't feel there was enough evidence to convict. Relevant information was excluded in that case, as it often is.

driver100 · March 2016

Maybe the jury should be a computer...take all the emotions out of it.

Sometimes I see a suspects picture in the newspaper and I can tell he's guilty just by looking at him.....

snakeweasel · March 2016

abacomike said:

Michaell said:

Opinions sought; can BMW really refuse to sell a car to the customer at the end of a lease? http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/40045/bmw/x1/recall-preventing-purchase-at-end-of-lease#latest

Michael, I responded to his question. The only way I think this guy can convince BMWFS to sell him the leased vehicle is to offer to sign a "hold harmless" agreement negating a recourse to sue BMWFS or BMW in case the air bag defect causes an injury or an accident. I, personally would never sign a hold harmless agreement in order to buy a car off lease. Besides, BMWFS will probably look negatively at the offer since Takata is the company responsible for the defect in the first place.

They cannot do a hold harmless agreement as it is illegal under Fed law. One thing is BMW has no control over who the buyer sells it to and under what disclosures.

abacomike · March 2016

driver100 said:

Maybe the jury should be a computer...take all the emotions out of it. Sometimes I see a suspects picture in the newspaper and I can tell he's guilty just by looking at him.....

"Looks" are deceiving, which I am sure you are aware. Even more familiar in terms of your comprehension of outward appearances would be the adage, "...you can't tell a book by its cover!" After being in the book business for a long time, you can surely understand where I am coming from.

In the film, "12 Angry Men", many of the jurors found the defendant guilty because he just "looked guilty," which was proved to be wrong after dissecting the evidence carefully and meticulously.

The human personality has evolved to the point that it is almost impossible to "tell or determine", without cross-examination and conflicting evidence, if a person is being truthful.

How you can say you can tell a person's guilt by just looking at a picture is either a highly evolved sense of ESP or just plain "hocum"! I lean toward the latter hypothesis!

isellhondas · March 2016

stickguy said:
no, I don't want a big trial! I have only ever gotten called for petit jury (local county stuff). It is 1 day or 1 trial. if you show up and don't get on a jury, you are done. if you do, you are stuck for the duration, but most don't go all that long.

I got called once while I was still working. I deferred it for six months and then I decided to go. They included a bus pass into downtown Seattle so that part was easy. I sat around for two days before getting interviewed by the defense attorney. They DO NOT like conservatives or people who watch Fox News especially here in ultra liberal Seattle! I was dismissed promptly!

berri · March 2016

Oil will probably end up like soda pop. Pop sales demand reduced, so now they are selling smaller cans or bottles at the same price as the previous larger ones.

berri · March 2016

Isell, I believe you mean the People's Republic of Seattle

oldfarmer50 · March 2016

I pulled up next to a Jaguar XJS V12 convertible this morning on the way to work. Nice car 91-96 model. Looked neat with the large trunk lid.

Looked like this:

I was also behind the woman at work who owns the Hellcat. She was driving within the speed limit, no fishtailing, no heavy acceleration.

When we got into the bus garage I had to tell her she was driving it wrong. She laughed.

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