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Waxes and Polishes, Part II
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SEE! I told you that you'd get the hang of it! LOL.... Glad that everything worked out okay. As for the shine......... you "ain't seen nuthin" yet! It gets wetter looking! How long will it last? What's that commercial...... it keeps going and going and going............... ;-)
fastdriver
45 minutes to Z2? I must work slow. Can you z6/Z2 your car without washing (given the car is not very dirty)? I tend to do everything at once. When I decide to detail, I go all out. I vinylex all rubber plastic molding (don't do the inside dash or plastic as I like the "matte" look), wash wax, dress the tires (current favorite is Meguiars Endurance), polish the glass, treat the leather portions of the interior, vacuum and scotchgard the carpets. I do this mainly in the fall since I don't get much of a chance to do a complete detail in the winter.
Wish I had a digital camera so you could see how my car looks now.
Bummer about your 300M problems. It's a fine car. I had a similar problem with a BMW 3 series a few years ago. They were smug and condecending. Long story, but they ended up paying me a lot of diagnotic money back when they wouldn't 'fess 'up to their errors. Still left a bad taste with me about BMWs in general.
My feeling is that most cars today are made well regardless of manufacturer. The wild card is dealer service and that varies greatly. American makes don't have a lock on poor dealer service.
Thanks for all of your help.
Black, when clean and shiny, is the greatest looking car color available. The trick, of course, is to keep it that way.
That said, black is probably the hardest color to keep clean and shiny.
1st rule--NO DRIVE THROUGH CAR WASHES. I don't car if they say they use "soft cloth" or not. As sure as your car is beautiful today, these car washes will dull and scratch your finish the first time you use them. The more you use them, the duller your finish will become.
If you've read through the previuos posts, you've already seen my forray into the world of Zaino (www.zainobros.com). Zaino products (I've used the leather conditioner, the Z1 polish lock, Z2 polish, Z6 detailer spray, Zaino Car Wash) are the best I've used for shine. Although I just completed using them for the first time, the shine is the best I've seen from any wax/polish...very deep and "wet" looking finish. Zaino would look awsome on black. Reportedly, it is also long lasting. I'll find out the longevity for myself in the next few months. No wax residue on the plastic/rubber is left either. Bugs just rinse off a Zaino finish. Follow the instructions on the Zaino WEB site for application.
If you're looking for something with a little less work involved or something that you can buy at your nearest "PEP BOYS", try Eagle 1 Wet.
Collonite is another wax that I've used. Carnuba based. It lasts a long, long time although there is quite a debate about the merits (or demerits) of using carnuba waxes compared to synthetic waxes (like Zaino or Eagle 1). Some have said that Carnuba tends to "yellow" over time. I can't comment on the yellowing since it has never happened to me. There is also debate that carnuba waxes "soften" when they get hot. Doesn't shine like Zaino, either.
The key is getting your finish "prepared". I would do the following to prepare your surface for a good coat of wax/polish:
1. Rinse off your car well. That means totally drenching every panel to "float" off the loose dirt. Rinse the whole car, every panel, with your hose at least twice, preferably 3 times, before you wash.
2. Wash with a couple of squirts of "blue" dawn dishwashing detergent in a gallon bukcet filled with clear, clean tap water(do this only once to take the "nasties" and old wax left on your car from the factory/dealership...after that use something that is specifically formulated for washing cars). Use an all cotton "wash mitt" or cotton towel. Again, if you have a Pep Boys near you, Kiwi makes a sponge that is surounded with a 100% cotton cover that I like and use. Make sure to wash only one panel at a time with plenty of "sudsy" water. Rinse each panel well after washing. Rinse your wash mitt vigorously with either a seperate buket of clean water or your hose after each panel has been washed. Any dirt left behind can and probably will scratch your surface.
3. Dry with a chamois, or a synthetic chamois like the "absorber" (my personal favorite), or 100% cotton bath towels, made in the USA. None of these will scratch your surface. If you use cotton bath towels, make sure you get them from a quality source (Penney's, Sears, etc.). Look for brand names like Cannon, Fieldcrest, etc. Don't trust the cotton content of foreign made towels. Why so choosy? Well, you want to keep your Accord as free as possible from scratches. 100% cotton will not scratch your surface. "Non-cotton" towel materials, will. Non-cotton content in towels is usually found in foreign, lower quality towels. Make certain that you dry all the door jambs and seams. I make it a habit to open the hood, trunk and all the doors when drying to get all the water left in the crevices.
4. (OPTIONAL) Since your car is new, you may or may not want to "clay" your surface to safely pull out any contaminents that may have attached to your surface while the vehicle was transported. Most cars are transported by rail. Ever see how dirty frieght trains are? I rest my case. Look for clay from companies like Zaino, Erazer, Mother's, Clay Magic. Don't, I repeat, don't use Meguiars clay. It leaves a lot of clay residue on your surface, it streaks and is hard to work with. Follow the instructions that came with the clay. Usually there is a "lubricant" that came with the clay. After claying, repeat steps 1,2 and 3 above.
5. Now your surface is prepared. By now, you should have a very clean, smooth surface. Time to wax. Since the car is new, there is no need to use any sort of cleaner on your finish. Follow the instructions that came with the wax or polish you choose to use. Don't use all-in-one cleaner/waxes. They contain abrasives (no matter what the label says). Wipe off/buff with only 100% cotton towels per the wax directions. Again, you should visit the Zaino site. Better yet, go to www.ls1.com to see some awsome shines on muscle cars using Zaino.
6. Detail
--tires, to make your tires look new, I use Meguiars Endurance. Zaino also has tire dressing which is supposed to be very good.
--rubber/plastic trim, again Zaino has some good rubber/plastic treatment. I also use Vinelx from Lexol. Don't forget to treat the rubber parts around the door, hood, trunk seals.
--Dash treatment, I don't like dash treatments as I prefer them to be clean only. A cotton towel with a little water dampening should do the trick (unless "big gulps" are flying out of your cup holders regularly).
--CAUTION--Don't use Son of a Gun, AmorAll or any of this ilk of product on rubber/plastic parts as it will suck out all of the emollients. This will cause cracking over time.
--Scotchgard--I buy a couple of cans of scotchgard to use on all the fabrics/carpets in the interior. This keeps accidental spills from staining the carpets/seats and keeps any dirt from soaking into the material.
--If you have leather, I like Zaino leather conditioner and Lexol.
--windows, 3M window cleaner is the best I've found for the windows. It cleans with no streaking. If you meed to get stains off of your windows (damn bug guts must be made of super glue and are tuff to get off of windows), use Zaino window polish.
OK...you're done...stand back and look at your finish. You should be amazed!!!!! Now all you have to do is wash it every week and you should be good to go. Get at least two more coats of wax on before winter weather hits and you should be able to carry on through until next spring.
WOW! You have become an expert! Great directions! Now that all your self-confidence is back, you can help others like ramadon1 above. Black is beautiful when it's clean, but it is hard to keep it that way. If he follows your advice above, he should have the shiniest black Honda in CT. I'll have to keep my eyes open for him! I'll recognize that wet-looking ZAINO shine anywhere!
Keep us posted.
fastdriver
As mentioned in a previous post, there are many pictures of the results of this phenomenal (IMO) car treatment on www.ls1.com in the Showcar and Detailing section, as well as more help in the use of Zaino to achieve the desired results.
I've been using Zaino on my new Acura TL purchased in April and am absolutely thrilled with the results, the exterior paint products and the leather care. I learned of Zaino here and was very skeptical, but decided to give it a try, and it definitely lives up to all the hype given to it here.
Shoman came in here many months ago with a huge chip on his shoulder about Zaino, and I see he is still hanging on to it. As he often does, he's offering to sell something, which is against the User Agreement as I read it.
IGNORE him and don't even respond to his posts and he'll disappear again! It's been so peaceful and friendly on this board for MONTHS! We all know his motive. He's already driven away one great source of info for us, maybe more. Thank God we still have access to Chris Parrish via e-mail, his webpage and his detail discussion board.
Enough said about this. I guess it is a good warning for any newcomers!
fastdriver
Absolutely agree about Chris. He helped me out once via email on an oxidation question I had about a friend's car.
Still, it's hard to ignore stuff that's just plain wrong, but you are right, enough said!
Also, any hints on how to Zaino the top of a van?
Good luck with the van. I'm dying to see this new Inferno Red. Is it like the orangy-red on the big Fords?
The weather will be PERFECT for ZAINOING the van!
scruplek-
Never heard of Katzkin leather, so I can't help you there. The Zaino leather treatments help to keep the leather supple and prevent it from drying out. I never heard of using water on real leather.
As for Z'ing the top of the van, I guess your best bet would be a ladder or a pair of stilts! LOL... Good luck.
fastdriver
Just other ?'s I have is the dealership but on a protective finsh on the car, was this a good thing or bad? Also, since my car is new should I wax right away or wait? Here in CT one never know what the winter is going to bring.
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH
shoman, please don't use this as a forum for your personal sales. There is a difference between recommending a product because you use it and like it, and recommending a product because you sell it.
The fact is that people don't need to call you if
they can't find wurth products locally (which they're not likely to, anyhow). Wurth products has a web page that people can access at www.wurthusa.com.
I should point out that this is not a personal
endorsement of Wurth products, nor is it an
endorsement of Wurth products by Edmunds.com.
Feel free to debate the "wet look" and what does or does not cause it all you want.
Gus
Conference Host
sincerely,
Tomcat1
THANKS!
fastdriver
I would wax the van as soon as possible. Understand that the dealership only wants you to "approve" of how the van looks before you drive it off the lot. Past that, they really don't care. So who knows what they put on the van. If you go through the Dawn wash procedure, you will have very little, if any, wax protection as you will have stripped off the "old" wax. As you said, one doesn't know how CT weather will turn this time of year so do it now.
fastdriver--again, thanks for all of your help. 20+ years ago (showing my age) when I was in college, I used to run a small detailing business off campus. No paint work, just wash, wax and detail work. All the rich kids with their "cool" cars would have me detail their cars at $30 a pop (sometimes, $25 a pop with beer thrown into the deal). I would do 4-5 cars every weekend. "Coolest" car I ever did was a Shelby Mustang. Parents gave it to this guy for high school graduation (where did my parents go wrong????). It kept me in book and spending money. Pretty soon I was doing the detail work for faculty (faculty always got charged $30 and they threw in $5 "tip" money). Then the local Alfa (remember them?) dealer asked me to do the same for their new car deliveries, paid me $20/car (they let me use their heated garage for free for all my detail work). After awhile, I had to work full time after classes just to keep up. By my senior year, I was doing 20-25 cars a week and had a part-time employee. I was grossing over $600-$700/week in 1978 money (all cash business, don't you know). I didn't have any tricks, just good ole hard work washing (used to use kerosene and water as a wash to get all the garbage, tar, oil off the cars), waxing (used 2 coats of Simoniz), q-tips, dove soap (was great for cleaning and softening up leather seats), and shop rags for the interiors. Does that make me an expert? Dunno!
The car care stuff available now is worlds better than the products available then. Just had to apply my "old experiences" with today's products and learn from others on the WEB.
Using all the advice from the sights listed throughout this thread, I've become an amateur detailer again...just with my own cars.
graphicguy,
'Glad to see you are up to par. Up to par? With your experience, I'm sure you could teach us all a few tricks. I too used to use Simonize wax a 'few' (yeah, OK, 20+) years ago. My Zaino seems to really last a long time. I put on my second (actually third) coat of Z2 on July 4th weekend and the shine was still near perfect through Labor Day. I Z'd my car again over Labor Day weekend.
But now I've got a real problem. Someone in the garage where I keep this '98 Accord Coupe in NYC gave me a really good scratch. Its right in the middle of the door and on the dark emerald green finish, it really stands out. I've also gotten a few minor nicks, etc. on the bumpers thanks to these wonderful garage attendants. Those I can handle myself, but the 'big one' will require a pro to fix. I brought the car into Honda for an estimate, and the guys in their shop kept coming over and asking me what brand of wax I was using. They couldn't see the scratch from the Zaino shine. And that's without a washing for a few weeks!
A few minor notes:
Z6: Yep, Z6 is not really anti-static. But I use it to quickly (and easily) remove dust between washings. And it does enhance the shine a bit too. Z6 is also very handy for cleaning windows.
Dry Times:
The first time I used Z1, it took a long time to dry. But that was up in the Berkshires (Western MA) in cold humid conditions. I've read that Zaino has since improved the drying times for Z1. I'll order some of the new Z1 to take advantage of this feature.
Towels:
Yes, my wife also complained about the fuss I made over 100% cotton towels. But that only lasted for a day. It does pay to invest a few bucks in FieldCrest as some of the other cheaper brands have nylon in the border stiches. You'll have to wash them separately from other garments. Don't use bleach in the wash, and don't use anti-static sprays or 'Bounce' when drying them.
Shoman,
Don't worry about him. He means well but just cannot help himself. And we all need a critics. They keep us honest.
Your experiment is very interesting. My TL has plastic bumpers. After I wash and dry the car, I can feel the static on them, makes the hairs on my arm stand up, you know what I mean? Then when I Z6 'em, that is gone, no more static feeling.
I've never tried anything like you did - my car is sort a gray-green, it's light colored (laguna green in Acura speak), and I never really notice dust on it. I wash and Z6 it weekly.
Call or e-mail Sal Zaino with your results. He is unbelievably interested in his products performing totally as promoted, and it is clear that customer satisfaction is his top priority. He definitely will want to hear what has happened for you and may even know what you can do to keep this from happening again. If Z6 does not do for you what he promises and what you need it to do, he will take care of it, one way or another.
LOL..... WE'RE giving YOU advice??? Pblevine is right- you could teach US a few tricks! I used to "detail" all the cars for my family- aunts, uncles etc. That kept me busy enough. I've used Simonize too, but I also used to use the Blue Coral(dark blue bottles), 2-step program that they had WAY back then. First, there was the liquid Blue Coral. Once that was done and wiped off, you had to use the paste stuff that was real PAIN to put on AND get off. I think I used to use cheesecloth to wipe it off! WHAT A SHINE! Definitely NOT as easy as ZAINO!
fastdriver
I have to say that the cars of yesteryear had a lot more paint applied to them than the cars now. Of course, they had to...cars rusted pretty easily once the metal was exposed on the old ones. Now most body panels are galvanized so it's not neccessary for such thick coats to protect from rust. No matter how hard you tried, washed, waxed, buffed, the old finishes you still couldn't get a shine like you can today with clearcoat and a product like Zaino.
I actually remember a guy who used to rub honeycombs on his '62 Olds 98. Not sure how long the bees wax lasted and did nothing for the shine.
I don't know where these spots come from. But ever since I applied Turle Wax to my car, I noticed this problem. I actually don't car where these spots come from. I am only concerned with getting rid of them!!!
Please help.
Try using clay to physically remove the spots. You can use either detailing spray or soapy water as your lubricant.
Good luck.
jonyen98: As recommended by drscopem, you should try 'claying' your car. But first, wash the car with "Dawn" liquid dish cleaner. 'Same as for kitchen usage. And only use the Dawn once. It will remove the old wax which may be the source of your brown spots. Then 'clay' the car. There are several brands of clay on the market. I heard of very good results from Eraser and Clay Magic. By rubbing this compound across your finish, the clay will pick up all sorts of 'bad stuff' such as brake dust and metalic particals. It may be that small iron particals embedded in your finish rusted out and the process of waxing just moved the rust around a bit. After you get rid of all of those spots, you should protect your finish with a coat of good wax or a polymer such as Zaino.
I did some more reading on what exactly these spots are. They are not metallic (like the product's website suggest) but more like a stubborn [pindrop sized] film of some sorts. There are a ton of them (I can't even remove the ones on the glass with glass cleaner). And they are evenly spaced it seems, about 1/2 to an inch apart. When I run my fingers over them, they feel gritty and sandy.
Anyways, like I said, I'll give it a try and let you know if it works.
My objection is that a true "show car/wet look" finish comes from paint that starts out perfectly smooth, without blemishes. Ask any painter, you can't get it with orange peel, no matter how good the wax.
About what happened with Chris, A couple of you, just like last time, seem to be intent on causing trouble. anyone wanting to read the extensive history can research what happened. I didn't drive Chris off the list, he was mad because a majority of the people here stood up to the very hateful rhetoric (not coming from Chris for most of that "discussion", BTW)that was aimed not at me, but at anyone that didn't unconditionally promote and love the Z product. The list administrator also asked those people to tone it down. It was shown quite clearly that this irrational hate was not appreciated on this list, and I am sure people don't appreciate it now.
Chris left of his own accord, along with a couple of others. I never said anything against the "Z", but apparently it's not possible in some peoples mind to like anything else.
I will remind those starting up this hate line again, that this is a public topic and not about one and only one line of products. Several commercial companies representatives post regularly here with their names and numbers, where is your outrage when that happens? I submit that I do NOT push my business here, although when I can solve a problem, like many others, I try to post a solution, in the least commercial way possible.
you took offense at something that no reasonable person should have.
I hope you continue to participate in a positive way, but if you take your attitude and your "chip" and go somewhere else, then don't blame anyone but yourself.
Don M.
You may be thrilled with the "deep shine" of your Zainoed cars (and well you should be for the price) but don't even begin to confuse that with the level of shine and color depth that is on those Pierce-Arrows and Hispana-Suzas at Pebble Beach. That is what shoman was reffering to and quite clearly, I might add.
As for jumping on shoman for selling products, isn't everyone? Everytime you guys put out a link to Zaino Bros, EraserClay, or Meguiars, you are doing the same thing, I don't think the fact that shoman is directly selling product makes any difference. Sal Zaino relies almost completely on word-of-mouth through the web for advertising, so you guys are no better. Besides shoman gave a different place to get the Wurths, with his addy as a last resort (again, quite clearly).
Try not to take it all so seriously. It is possible to be confident in your car and it's finish without being shortsighted and hostile.
Waxes and Polishes are like football teams, each has its pros and cons and everyone has a favorite, keep it in perspective.
--Dave
I just think that people were overeacting when shoman said "if you have trouble finding it, give me a call..." , this is hardly a big commercial statement.
It is SO ridiculous that people jumped all over him for suggesting(correctly IMO) that the difference between a regular car that is Zainoed or waxed and a Pebble Beach car is night and day. His post about paint quality was 100% correct and I don't see how anyone can consider this a Zaino slam.
I am just trying to interject my own points, and not singling out anyone in particular so there is no reason to be so defensive. You are right, let's just move on.
--Dave
I take shoman's point on a perfect finish being essential. However, I stand by mine that Zaino products give an outstanding wet look without the extensive and abrasive surface prep that he says is required. This is just MO - maybe shoman and I should just agree to disagree. I am happy with the products I've chosen, and I do not think they are "expensive" for their return.
I raised the issue of his using posts to offer to sell things (and therefore make a profit, unlike other posters who are just sharing product info they have found useful) because he has also done this in many of his previous posts. I agree that this one was rather mild, but other posts have been more blatant. I have read every message in this topic and its three predecessors. Anyone can check it out who would like to do so. Also please read the Participant Agreement to understand my objection.
Sorry that my comments created this, I would just rather hear from people who are relating personal experiences without a financial stake in promoting their opinions.
You didn't start anything and you don't have to explain anything! This is what happened before. He definitely rubs people the wrong way. I guess I spoke too soon when I said it's been peaceful here.
You know what your car looks like and I know what mine looks like. Some people have blinders on and some people need them when they look at my wet-looking ZAINO shine. ;-)) I know that you, me and hundreds of others all know what ZAINO has done for us and our cars. I don't think ANY of us are preparing our cars for Pebble Beach or any other car show with $10,000 paint jobs!
Save your typing fingers for more important stuff. Happy Z'ing!
fastdriver
I have found that if I dampen the cloth before using the ZAINO Z-12 window cleaner, it is easier to apply. I use a small towel for this. I let it dry thoroughly, then I wipe it off with another towel and apply Z-6 to the windows.
I hate cleaning the windows to begin with because in my 300M, you have to be a contortionist to clean the front and rear windows because of their deep slope. You can't get the leverage that you really need. I go for weeks without cleaning the inside windows- the front and the rear.
I have read that people use window cleaners that DON'T contain ammonia and use black and white newspaper instead of a towel to wipe the stuff off. By the time you're through, the windows may be clean, but you're all black from the newsprint! ;-))
fastdriver
As far as newspaper on windows, the ink in newsprint contains a fine pumice. The news "paper" itself is corse and acts as a polishing cloth. The only issue I have with newspaper is the difficulty in getting your windows completely dry with such a "non-absorbing" material as paper. Plus, the newsprint does "run" onto your hands.
I have heard of a "bon-ami" type fine cleanser that some car manufacturers recommend, but can't seem to find it (except for the stuff that is meant for sinks...this, in my opinion, would be too corse for your windows).
codak: Zaino's Z12 Glass Polisher contains abrasives (mild) and is really designed to eliminate the tough film build up due to aging of interior plastic parts. And it does a very good job in that application. For daily window wash / cleaning, I use good olde Z6. Inside and out. I've never used newspaper on a window, but I'll give it a try. Enough people have mentioned it in these topics to peek my interest. Now let's see, should I use a tabloid or full size format?
Try the National Enquirer!! LOL.... Then again, maybe not. Your windows might steam up! LOL....
fastdriver
I've wanted to try and use Vinylex by Lexol but can't find it up here in Canada. I've emailed the company twice with no response (why bother having an address at all?). Are there any Canadians out there who know of a source?
Thanks.
Andrew.
- windows
I use kitchen towels with Eagle One 20/20 for most cleaning needs. If there is crud on the outside, I use Bon Ami Powder in the RECTANGULAR can. It is also available as a cleaning cake. It contains feldspar and soap and was used to clean the windows of Skylab. It will not scratch. You have to go to the hardware store to get it as grocery stores only have the cleanser.
DO NOT USE the Bon Ami CLEANSER in the ROUND can which contains feldspar and calcite. It will scratch. For oily film that doesn't respond to the above try The Wax Shop's Oily Film Remover and Window Cleaner.
An old pro tip for angulated glass - wrap the towel around a hard plastic ruler then wipe. You can reach about anywhere with it.
-washing
For suggestions about car shampoo try post #36 in this topic. Another poster just told me he thinks the Sonax smells and shines like Mother's. Since I haven't tried Mother's in years I'll have to check it out and repost. I did send email inquiries to both Mother's and Sonax to see if they were the same but no replies yet.
Good luck.
I've ordered the Zaino products for my new car's first wax. Hopefully, I will quickly master the technique of applying per the posts here and elsewhere. I will practice on my old cars first.
I was going to start using RainX on my windows. Anyone know if Zaino's car wash will strip it each time I wash? Will any car wash strip it requiring reapplying each time I wash? How well does Z6 clean the windows - is it suppose to be used on the windows? Does it work as well as RainX? Just curious.
put my little ashtray right in front of the TV. As I flick my ashes into the ashtray, they IMMEDIATELY get sucked OUT of the ashtray and onto the TV screen and the front of the black control panel because of the static.
Even though it was early, a light bulb went off in my head! Why not try some Z-6 on the TV and the screen! I jumped up, ran for the Z-6 and tried it! VOILA!!!!! The ashes STAY in the ashtray where they belong! I have NO CLUE why I never thought of this before!
What was that about Z-6 NOT being anti-static? I have some computer screens that collect an inordinate amount of dust that I'll have to experiment with next.
fastdriver
Thanks FD. Am off to try that now.
Z-1, and Z-2(one coat) in one day( evenif you are really slow!). Try it guys. It works.
I agree with you. I think we "old time" ZAINO users have gone overboard telling people not to use too much ZAINO. It's just that when you are used to using paste wax, you might tend to go overboard with ZAINO because you need so little to get those dazzling results!
Folks, tp4unc is right. It really is NOT as involved or as complicated as it may seem. With the Fall weather coming here in the Northeast, it's a PERFECT time to Z the car! I have NEVER had to let ZAINO dry for hours or overnight as some here have done. Sal Zaino says that if the Z rubs off when you use the finger test and doesn't smear, it's ready to be wiped off.
Last week I timed myself. It took me 45 minutes to apply Z-2 and wipe it off on my 99 Chrysler 300M. Is that an inordinate amount of time to spend keeping a car clean? If it is, then maybe you should just go to the car wash and let them scrub the dirt off and apply liquid wax.
When I first read about ZAINO last year, I was VERY skeptical. It sounded like an infomercial to me! Then I thought- could ALL these people who are praising ZAINO be lying? If they were, WHY? Were they Sal's relatives? I decided to try it for myself! The rest is history!
My car is almost 16 months old and looks better now then the day I picked it up except for the stone chips on its low-sloping hood. Look for yourself.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Flats/7501/
fastdriver
Thanks Ron