Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

henryn · August 2016

So this is saying you get the Truecar price, AND an additional $1,000 off if you go through Sam's Club? Sounds a little too good to be true.

andres3 · August 2016

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

I think diminished loss is an issue. A friend had an accident in his Mercedes ML SUV.....$13k worth of damage. Sure the car got repaired, but, when he traded it in a year later it is worth $8000 less than book value, because of the accident.
I am not saying it isn't, I am just saying that diminished value isn't realized, and cannot be truly determined until the car is sold down the line. That and that deprecation eats into that diminished value such as if your friend traded it in a year later it would have been closer to book value (how much closer is anyone guess).

This doesn't even take into account further instances that could diminish value.

Now my recent accident, yes I most likely have a diminished value but I usually keep cars until the wheels fall off. So say I keep this car for another 75-100K miles then it would have been completely depreciated and it's value at that time would be unaffected by the accident.

DV is realized immediately and instantaneously once the car is wrecked. It can be determined without selling the car, just EXACTLY the same as a totaled car has a value and it is not what you can sell the totaled car for. Again, this is a VERY weak argument that are making.

The losses are fully realized immediately. The losses are mitigated and partially reduced/recovered if the owner decides to keep the damaged goods for a longer period of time. This isn't like a house that goes up and down. Cars go one direction; downward. Even in the case of a classic car worth more than its original purchase price, diminished value would still exist vs. one that hadn't been wrecked.

DV never goes down to zero no matter how old the car. It might flat line really low, but it is always greater than zero on a car in good condition.

andres3 · August 2016

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

It's called goodwill and smart companies employ it to their loyal customers. They have a right to say no, just like I have a right to ask for a lower price. Ultimately the customer has to say yes for the dealership to be in the business of selling cars rather than storing them.
I am familiar with goodwill and going the extra mile for a loyal customer, but making someone "even-steven" often can go well beyond that. My point is that this should be an arms length transaction where the dealership is not doing anything special because the sale was the result of an accident.
andres3 said:
I like the idea of insurance working to make the damaged victims whole. I like the idea of being made whole by insurance, unfortunately, I think there are too many holes the way insurance laws are written to be made whole in real life.

It doesn't pay for lost time. It doesn't pay for inconvenience. It doesn't pay for inflation. It doesn't pay for an equivalent rental car if you own something real nice (how many rental Audi's have you seen at your local Hertz?). They don't want to pay for diminished value. They don't want to pay legitimate claims if they can get away with it. Lastly, the art of craftsmanship and workmanship is gone from the auto repair/body shop industry. I'd rather a robot repaint my car.
A lot of what you mentioned is either abstract or unrealized losses and therefore very hard to quantify and unrealistic to payout.

How do you quantify inconvenience and pay it out? What is it worth? that would vary from person to person.

Inflation is a non issue.

Define equivalent car rental. Since it is a very short term temporary replacement I would say that if it does the same thing then it is equivalent. There is no place you can drive a Audi that you cant drive a Chevy to.

Diminished value is an unrealized loss that only diminishes (pun intended) over time. You will have to dispose of the car to realize the loss, if you even realize one, and the longer you keep the car the less the diminished value is.

As for the art of craftsmanship and workmanship, you just don't know where to go.
I think diminished loss is an issue. A friend had an accident in his Mercedes ML SUV.....$13k worth of damage. Sure the car got repaired, but, when he traded it in a year later it is worth $8000 less than book value, because of the accident.

I am supposed to get a car of equivalent value as a replacement. The rental company will do everything possible to make sure that won't happen. I am sure the daily rate I see is different than the rate the insurance company gets when they rent these cars. The car rental company gives me whatever they can scrape up....I am the least of their priorities.

Being made whole. It would be nice, I am out all kinds of time, not to mention the toll all this takes on your mind body and spirit. Even makes you lose some enjoyment of driving or traveling. It will change our plans to get to Florida....might have to fly down and back to pick up the car....how am I compensated for that?

In this case, the victim gets victimized several times.

I agree with @Driver100 100% You are indeed victimized first by the at-fault negligent driver, then again by the insurance company, and most likely a 3rd time by the body shop (even if you don't know it or recognized it). Granted with the Chrysler specified panel gap tolerance of plus or minus a yard, workmanship isn't that important.

andres3 · August 2016

driver100 said:
Imid - In the case of friends Mercedes....I believe it would be diminished by that amount, because they would not sell it with a warranty. With that kind of damage the car will be wholesaled off, and not put on their lot..IMHO

GG - Yeh, the dash is right down your alley...hi tech. I am a low tech kind of guy, I like the old fashioned real instruments, but, it is an exciting change. I'll feel like I am playing a video game or on the set of Star Wars. btw, airbags did not deploy, but self restraining seatbelts and forward moving headrests sure helped.

ab, lol, but, I don't think the virtual instruments are going to kill me.

DV has many things that contribute to it, and the fact it can't be sold as a certified used car anymore is a big one. That means you can't trade it in at a dealership without losing out big time. The main reason they won't certify a damaged car is because of safety reasons. The structural integrity of the car is likely compromised, and they don't want wrongful death lawsuits. My S4 was traded in and sold as a pre-owned car by the dealership. No certifications.

Now there might be people out there willing to pay top dollar if they don't care that the car was previously wrecked, and then there are more people like me that won't touch one with a 10' pole. I think you can't ask a person to try and find that needle in a haystack. If Carmax doesn't like accident damaged cars, then it's reasonable to assume no one does; at least when it comes to DV.

Of course, a bent tailgate is not nearly as bad as a bent frame; so severity of the damage and repairs plays a part.

oldfarmer50 · August 2016

henryn said:

So this is saying you get the Truecar price, AND an additional $1,000 off if you go through Sam's Club? Sounds a little too good to be true.

I was ready to complain to the hosts about the size of the ads until I saw your moniker.

Sounds interesting. I guess it all comes down to whether the TrueCar price is good. An extra $1000 off would be the gravy.

EDIT: I went to Sam's and punched in a 2017 Mustang just like mine. TrueCar price was $2 k off sticker which is what I got in July. So that part is good. Another $1000 would be sweet.

However, I got about $2000 more for my trade for a total of $4k off vs $3k for the Sam's offer. Not really a direct comparison as I got my car at the end of the year (July) and the 2017 are just in.

qbrozen · August 2016

henryn said:

driver100 said:

All cars depreciate by that much at least...as soon as you drive them off the lot.

Uhh … no, definitely not true. If you get a good deal when you buy it (end of model year), and pick a model with low depreciation, you can come out smelling like a rose.

I owned a 2011 Silverado, purchased new, kept for 2 years, it only depreciated $3k over the 2 years I owned it.

Another regular here, @qbrozen. He had a Mustang GT, purchased new, kept around 2 years, and it depreciated less than your $7k. Now the car he traded the Mustang in for, the Cadillac, that one depreciated, what, $17k ? over the course of about 2 years.

Lesson here is, if you don’t want massive depreciation, don’t buy a new luxury car.

Depends on how you calculate depreciation. From my purchase price to my trade price, the Mustang lost only about $3k in 18 mos, while the Caddy lost, yes, $17k in about the same amount of time. From MSRP, it looks much worse on both counts. I think something like $10k on the pony and nearly 30 large on the caddy.

js06gv · August 2016

andres3 said:

driver100 said:
Imid - In the case of friends Mercedes....I believe it would be diminished by that amount, because they would not sell it with a warranty. With that kind of damage the car will be wholesaled off, and not put on their lot..IMHO

GG - Yeh, the dash is right down your alley...hi tech. I am a low tech kind of guy, I like the old fashioned real instruments, but, it is an exciting change. I'll feel like I am playing a video game or on the set of Star Wars. btw, airbags did not deploy, but self restraining seatbelts and forward moving headrests sure helped.

ab, lol, but, I don't think the virtual instruments are going to kill me.
DV has many things that contribute to it, and the fact it can't be sold as a certified used car anymore is a big one. That means you can't trade it in at a dealership without losing out big time. The main reason they won't certify a damaged car is because of safety reasons. The structural integrity of the car is likely compromised, and they don't want wrongful death lawsuits. My S4 was traded in and sold as a pre-owned car by the dealership. No certifications.

Now there might be people out there willing to pay top dollar if they don't care that the car was previously wrecked, and then there are more people like me that won't touch one with a 10' pole. I think you can't ask a person to try and find that needle in a haystack. If Carmax doesn't like accident damaged cars, then it's reasonable to assume no one does; at least when it comes to DV.

Of course, a bent tailgate is not nearly as bad as a bent frame; so severity of the damage and repairs plays a part.

The basis for DV is all over the board. There is also no such thing as inherent DV, meaning you can't say that every car involved in an accident or incident has suffered in value once it is repaired. The extent of damage, the quality of repairs, and (unfortunately) the extent that some used car dealers want to take advantage of the situation are all factors in determining DV. There are instances where DV is perfectly legit, and some where it isn't. You used the term "wrecked" a few times. What is wrecked? In my opinion, Driver100's car was wrecked but the example above involving a tailgate dent was not. The repair involved likely was no more than what happens to cars on actual manufacturing lines that get damaged and fixed without anyone being the wiser for it.

Cars get into accidents every day and they also get fixed every day. Some may suffer from diminished value for one reason or another, and others may not.

qbrozen · August 2016

I have stated this before rather recently I think. In my opinion, any car with a bad history is worth less than an otherwise indenticle car with a clean history. Unless you are talking about a sub $5k car where it just doesn't matter much anymore. Or something so rare you have no clean example to compare to.

andres3 · August 2016

qbrozen said:
I have stated this before rather recently I think. In my opinion, any car with a bad history is worth less than an otherwise indenticle car with a clean history. Unless you are talking about a sub $5k car where it just doesn't matter much anymore. Or something so rare you have no clean example to compare to.

And that right there is why inherent diminished value is real and always exists. On a $1,000 dollar in damage accident it might be minuscule, but it is there. On a 50% car value accident claim, rest assured most buyers would need about 10-20% to overcome the bad history. Then there are buyers that won't buy it at any price; no matter how much you discount it (cough cough).

If a typical average everyday used car manager can spot that the car has been wrecked and at least two panels have been replaced and/or repainted, that's enough to consider it a DV vehicle. Some might argue there has to be "structural" damage. Then you get into an argument over what constitutes structural.

Interestingly, I was unable to find any published data from Audi that describes what makes a car certifiable or not. What the threshold is. Car Max manager said bolts spun on 2 panels equaled automatic disqualification.

andres3 · August 2016

Funny enough way back in 2002 my '03 Honda came with a flyer from Honda that said make sure your insurer only uses GENUINE Honda OEM parts for replacement during an accident claim. They said you could and should insist only OEM parts are used to keep your warranty valid and your car running right.

At first I thought they might just be trying to make money selling OEM replacement parts, but I actually think the flyer was issued for the mutual best interests of everyone.

A lifetime body shop warranty is worthless; can you imagine the nightmare of finger pointing every time something broke down? Who do you go to first to check it out?

Remember I had a low beam headlight bulb replaced on the S4? It was on the right and had been replaced due to the accident. I thought about going to the body shop for repair, but instead I went to Audi since I was still under warranty. Thank goodness too because Audi's customer service is great and the body shop's was lousy.

driver100 · August 2016

fintail said:
I see that in both the US and Canada, the large gauge screen is part of the highest premium package. In the US, that package makes the car really loaded - and would be a must-have for me. It also includes HUD, which is something that becomes useful. I like to know what the engine is doing - in my diesel, the thing is just above idle at some speeds and gears, it's fascinating. If I didn't care, I would get a hybrid

White with what color interior? White on beige/sand works well, kind of a FL color too.

driver100 said:

The package I got includes the virtual guages. I just read a review where the reviewer says he likes the Progressive layout because it has the most information on the screen, and Mercedes drivers don't need a tach.
We have had about 6 white cars in a row, so I really wanted to go with the new red......but, I like the contrast of the white with the black roof.....white is better in Florida, and I know I won't get tired of it.

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

driver100 · August 2016

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

driver100 said:

All cars depreciate by that much at least...as soon as you drive them off the lot.

Uhh … no, definitely not true. If you get a good deal when you buy it (end of model year), and pick a model with low depreciation, you can come out smelling like a rose.

I owned a 2011 Silverado, purchased new, kept for 2 years, it only depreciated $3k over the 2 years I owned it.

Another regular here, @qbrozen. He had a Mustang GT, purchased new, kept around 2 years, and it depreciated less than your $7k. Now the car he traded the Mustang in for, the Cadillac, that one depreciated, what, $17k ? over the course of about 2 years.

Lesson here is, if you don’t want massive depreciation, don’t buy a new luxury car.
Depends on how you calculate depreciation. From my purchase price to my trade price, the Mustang lost only about $3k in 18 mos, while the Caddy lost, yes, $17k in about the same amount of time. From MSRP, it looks much worse on both counts. I think something like $10k on the pony and nearly 30 large on the caddy.

Depreciation is approximately 15% in year one, and 10% every year after....just a rule of thumb. Usually, I find it is more, but certain cars are in demand and could lose less....especially a truck which is in demand.

There was a time I would have bought a car with depreciation in mind, these days I just want to buy the car I want. I try not to get anything too odd as they could be hard to get rid of when the time comes.

ab348 · August 2016

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I just built a 2017 E on M-B Canada's site and I don't recall seeing a grey or porcelain leather choice offered. Of course right now I can only build an E300 there. Nice cars, though a bit out of my league.

fintail · August 2016

Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

fordfool · August 2016

andres3 said:
Someone here said buy the safest car you can afford; that should go for rentals too; you never know when you'll need those safety systems.

I wonder what the accident rate of rental cars is, what with drivers inexperienced with the car frequently driving on unfamiliar roads.

stever · August 2016

Excellent question.

driver100 · August 2016

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I just built a 2017 E on M-B Canada's site and I don't recall seeing a grey or porcelain leather choice offered. Of course right now I can only build an E300 there. Nice cars, though a bit out of my league.

I didn't explain that well ab, my just destroyed E400 had the Light gray seats, the one I ordered is beige. The gray is no longer offered.

It's out of my league too.....but, I am trying to use up what I have so I don't have to leave it as an inheritance. :@

driver100 · August 2016

fintail said:
Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

snakeweasel · August 2016

driver100 said:
But, you shouldn't have to keep the car for a longer period of time to recoup the value...you are the victim.

In my friends case, he shouldn't have to keep his MB SUV for 10 years to be made whole....they should fix the car ($13k damage) plus, whatever he has lost when he trades it in ($8k). He should not be out anything - it isn't right!

I am not saying that you should keep the car for a longer period of time to recoup the diminished value, I was just using that as an example that diminished value is hard to determine and can change depending on the circumstances.

Now suppose that your friend got the $8K for diminished value but did keep the car for another year and traded it in with a $6K loss over book. Would your friend give back the extra $1K?

Or supposed that that dealer was just using the accident to lowball the trade in and another dealer gave more for the trade in?

There are so many variables that it is difficult to accurately determine the diminished value.

jmonroe · August 2016

fordfool said:

andres3 said:
Someone here said buy the safest car you can afford; that should go for rentals too; you never know when you'll need those safety systems.
I wonder what the accident rate of rental cars is, what with drivers inexperienced with the car frequently driving on unfamiliar roads.

I don't have the statistics on that but it has to be higher than normal.

However, this is a close kin to when I was teaching Son #1 how to drive back in the mid '80's. One of the first things I warned him about was when he saw an out of state license plate he should be on guard for just about anything especially quick lane changes. After seeing his first out of state license plate he knew exactly what to do and he responded correctly by giving lots of room for the out of stater do his quick lane changes. While this was the first time he actually had to do the proper thing when being behind the wheel he knew what to look for before he even got his permit. This was because for about a year before he got his permit I had him sit in the passenger seat whenever we went anywhere even with Mrs. j in the car (she sat in the back seat). I did this because I wanted him to see what was going on before he got his permit. I wanted him to point out everything he saw, like cars driving erratically, speeders, chronic lane changers, etc. I wanted him to tell me what he would do if he was driving AND why.

It paid off because he turned out to be a pretty good driver even though he often pushes the speed limit. Of course I also get the blame from Mrs. j for his faster driving because one time while driving on his permit he stayed on the accelerator for more than just a few seconds when passing a few cars on the interstate and he had to be going at least 20 MPH over the speed limit. From the back seat his mother is gasping and when she finally caught her breath she wanted to know why he was going so fast. That's when he threw me under the bus and said, "Dad told me not to linger when passing a string of cars. He told me to accelerate long enough to get away from the pack before getting back in the right hand lane." You just gotta love a kid like that, huh?

jmonroe

snakeweasel · August 2016

jmonroe said:

The Cub's are a lock to win their division. I can't say that about the disappointing performance the Pirates are displaying this year.

Yep the Cubs will take their division and I am really glad about that, if it was close I would have to have been rooting to the Mets and I really couldn't do that. Now just be glad you're not a Giants fan (you're not a Giants fan are you?).

jmonroe said:
To keep your hair blower from going back to the shop, don't make anymore left turns at multi point stop sign intersections.

jmonroe

Hair? What's that?

Mr_Shiftright · August 2016

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:
I've been reading a lot of good things about the upcoming Genesis G80 and G90. I will probably give them a try when they are available. Biggest downside according to reviewers is not having any "brand cache and heritage" which doesn't bother me a bit if I like the cars.
It might bother you if you are forced to resell early and take the massive depreciation hit (sometimes forced by others negligent driving). Other then that, it would be nice if more makers made world-class cars.

"They" said the same thing about the Lexus LS400 when it first came out. The trick is, you have to produce a luxury car that offers the same level of luxury as the brands with "cache", but at a better price. That's what Lexus did and it worked.

jmonroe · August 2016

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe said:

The Cub's are a lock to win their division. I can't say that about the disappointing performance the Pirates are displaying this year.
Yep the Cubs will take their division and I am really glad about that, if it was close I would have to have been rooting to the Mets and I really couldn't do that. Now just be glad you're not a Giants fan (you're not a Giants fan are you?).
jmonroe said:
To keep your hair blower from going back to the shop, don't make anymore left turns at multi point stop sign intersections.

jmonroe
Hair? What's that?

Nope, I'm not a Giants fan. I live too far east for that to happen.

About the hair thing, I have lots of it even now. Like I've said before, not all of it is the original color but there is plenty of it and I'm bragging not complaining.

jmonroe

snakeweasel · August 2016

andres3 said:

You always seem to manage to sound like an insurance industry advocate? Just how much of your 401K is backing insurance companies?

No I am sounding like an accountant, and guess what? That's what I am.

Now if I were an insurance industry advocate I would be saying something like look at your policy and see what it states, it likely states that the insurer will pay for any repairs and says nothing about reimbursing for diminished value. If you want that then get a policy that covers that and when you find it be prepared to pay more for it because it increases risk and insurance companies are not charities.

andres3 said:
Instead of calling it something special for the result of an accident call it something special for someone buying more cars more frequently due to an accident. Not everyone is a chronic car buyer. "Bulk" discount if you will.

A distinction without a difference.

andres3 said:
For me equivalent car rental is one that has substantially the same specifications at the one you have.

Lets see, if you can drive it wherever you can drive your main car and it carries the same number of people and/or cargo then wouldn't they have the same specifications?

Now if you die in a Chevy Spark due to an accident there is no way you can say with any certainty that you would have survived in your old S4.

andres3 said:
Your defense of diminished value is easily solved.

The only way you can solve that issue is that the insurance company to take the car and give you the pre-accident value of your car, but that would be prohibitive.

Now your 10 day time frame is a bit subjective, I could just as easily state that if it sold in less than 10 days then it was priced to low.

Again the diminished value is unrealized until the car is disposed of and there are a multitude of variables that determine the amount when it was disposed of. It is impossible to determine how much would the amount of diminished value be.

andres3 said:
As to finding the one in a million body shop with good workmanship, that could be expensive and time-consuming.

There are plenty of them out there and there are not hard to find.

fintail · August 2016

The original LS was also sold as a loss-leader, right? No way in heck they were making a profit on those at 35-40K. Today, the LS is expensive, and doesn't sell in numbers remotely close to the competition. They indeed sold an equal or better product at a better price, but maybe via artificial means.

Mr_Shiftright said:

"They" said the same thing about the Lexus LS400 when it first came out. The trick is, you have to produce a luxury car that offers the same level of luxury as the brands with "cache", but at a better price. That's what Lexus did and it worked.

stickguy · August 2016

I always heard that they were selling them at a discount to build the brand.

fintail · August 2016

I kind of like the striped material, I would want it in brown rather than black. I don't know if I would want that light colored steering wheel though, it might not look pretty in a few years. I assume that pic is some kind of Designo package maybe not widely available, if at all.

I think wood will always be available, as it is tradition, and the brand isn't abandoning traditionalists. But it will have more modern or sporty options for new or younger customers. I think I have seen the piano black stuff in CLA, not sure if it is even wood. Europe had had aluminum trim available (maybe even standard) on E for some years, and I think has been available in NA too, but special order - you'll never see one on the lot.

driver100 said:

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

oldfarmer50 · August 2016

fordfool said:

andres3 said:
Someone here said buy the safest car you can afford; that should go for rentals too; you never know when you'll need those safety systems.
I wonder what the accident rate of rental cars is, what with drivers inexperienced with the car frequently driving on unfamiliar roads.

I wonder if that information is even available? When a rental gets wrecked does Hertz or Avis report that to CarFax or just repair it in house and keep quiet? I supose police reports might catch it though.

Anybody know how that works?

driver100 · August 2016

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:
But, you shouldn't have to keep the car for a longer period of time to recoup the value...you are the victim.

In my friends case, he shouldn't have to keep his MB SUV for 10 years to be made whole....they should fix the car ($13k damage) plus, whatever he has lost when he trades it in ($8k). He should not be out anything - it isn't right!
.

Now suppose that your friend got the $8K for diminished value but did keep the car for another year and traded it in with a $6K loss over book. Would your friend give back the extra $1K?

Or supposed that that dealer was just using the accident to lowball the trade in and another dealer gave more for the trade in?

There are so many variables that it is difficult to accurately determine the diminished value.

I don't think insurance companies should avoid paying diminished value (DM) because it isn't easy to calculate. I do know it isn't right that the victim in an accident should be out of pocket.

Maybe the DM should be calculated at the time of the accident, in my friends case $8000, and then a sliding scale such as 25% less for each year you keep the car...to be paid when traded in.

My point being....the innocent victim of an accident is rarely compensated fairly, and this is just a loop hole for the insurance company.

driver100 · August 2016

fintail Posts: 37,536
August 25
I kind of like the striped material, I would want it in brown rather than black. I don't know if I would want that light colored steering wheel though, it might not look pretty in a few years. I assume that pic is some kind of Designo package maybe not widely available, if at all.

I think wood will always be available, as it is tradition, and the brand isn't abandoning traditionalists. But it will have more modern or sporty options for new or younger customers. I think I have seen the piano black stuff in CLA, not sure if it is even wood. Europe had had aluminum trim available (maybe even standard) on E for some years, and I think has been available in NA too, but special order - you'll never see one on the lot.

Fintail....over 37000 post...how long have yoou been here!

The stripes were available here in black or brown. I don't think I will get a light color steering wheel but I would prefer it if they had it.....the brighter the better for me.

I believe there were two aluminum trims available with different patterns. I like the aluminum look, but a lot of people see the wood and they love the wood look. I think I like the wood because it reminds me of the tradition of fine cars......they had those nice wood instrument panels.

Do you still have that beautiful fintail MB that I assume gave you your name? I don't know if you have been to the Mercedes factory and museum in Stuttgart, but the tour was one of the best trips we have ever done....very worthwhile.

graphicguy · August 2016

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

Ooooooo.....I like that!

ab348 · August 2016

I really like the open-pore wood trim on current Benzes. The stripes are unique but I imagine not many people order them. My absolute favorite of all the choices they have is only available on the S-class to my knowledge, the silvered wood trim, which looks stunning on a car with a light gray or oyster interior.

houdini1 · August 2016

jmonroe said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe said:

The Cub's are a lock to win their division. I can't say that about the disappointing performance the Pirates are displaying this year.
Yep the Cubs will take their division and I am really glad about that, if it was close I would have to have been rooting to the Mets and I really couldn't do that. Now just be glad you're not a Giants fan (you're not a Giants fan are you?).
jmonroe said:
To keep your hair blower from going back to the shop, don't make anymore left turns at multi point stop sign intersections.

jmonroe
Hair? What's that?
Nope, I'm not a Giants fan. I live too far east for that to happen.

About the hair thing, I have lots of it even now. Like I've said before, not all of it is the original color but there is plenty of it and I'm bragging not complaining.

jmonroe

I wish my hair had turned grey, but instead it just turned loose.

houdini1 · August 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:
I've been reading a lot of good things about the upcoming Genesis G80 and G90. I will probably give them a try when they are available. Biggest downside according to reviewers is not having any "brand cache and heritage" which doesn't bother me a bit if I like the cars.
It might bother you if you are forced to resell early and take the massive depreciation hit (sometimes forced by others negligent driving). Other then that, it would be nice if more makers made world-class cars.
"They" said the same thing about the Lexus LS400 when it first came out. The trick is, you have to produce a luxury car that offers the same level of luxury as the brands with "cache", but at a better price. That's what Lexus did and it worked.

According to Hyundai (Genesis?) the new G90's body is 80% more rigid than the Equus it replaces, and the Equus wasn't a slouch. Supposedly, it is also more rigid that the Merc S 550. If true, that is a very good sign of a well built car. Got my attention anyway.

driver100 · August 2016

andres3 said:
For me equivalent car rental is one that has substantially the same specifications at the one you have.

Lets see, if you can drive it wherever you can drive your main car and it carries the same number of people and/or cargo then wouldn't they have the same specifications?

Now if you die in a Chevy Spark due to an accident there is no way you can say with any certainty that you would have survived in your old S4.

I am not so sure. I am paying a premium amount to pay for insurance on a premium car, I think I should have something similar as a rental. I should not have to do without....the insurance company should provide me with a car of equal enjoyment and safety.

Basically, I am using the rental car to get to tennis and pickleball, on a longer trip we have to use my wife's GLK for comfort and safety.

The Fusion will do, and it gets me from A to B reasonably well, but, why should I be out anything? I am entitled to a premium car, but, I don't have the time to fight for it...and I am sure insurance companies are the lowest priority for the car rental company.

houdini1 · August 2016

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

Ooooooo.....I like that!

For me, the quilted two tone seats and pinstripes are a little over the top.

nelsonf · August 2016

Fintail, just needs a bit of wax:

http://bringatrailer.com/2016/08/25/100-fintail-1966-mercedes-benz-230s/

jpp75 · August 2016

driver100 said:
andres3 said:
For me equivalent car rental is one that has substantially the same specifications at the one you have.

Lets see, if you can drive it wherever you can drive your main car and it carries the same number of people and/or cargo then wouldn't they have the same specifications?

Now if you die in a Chevy Spark due to an accident there is no way you can say with any certainty that you would have survived in your old S4.

I am not so sure. I am paying a premium amount to pay for insurance on a premium car, I think I should have something similar as a rental. I should not have to do without....the insurance company should provide me with a car of equal enjoyment and safety.

Basically, I am using the rental car to get to tennis and pickleball, on a longer trip we have to use my wife's GLK for comfort and safety.

The Fusion will do, and it gets me from A to B reasonably well, but, why should I be out anything? I am entitled to a premium car, but, I don't have the time to fight for it...and I am sure insurance companies are the lowest priority for the car rental company.

I agree but do rental companies in CA stock cars equivalent to your MB? Some of the larger rental agencies here might have something comparable in a large market but most rental fleets are relatively mundane. A Chrysler 300 or maybe a Lincoln MKS would be your best bet at the average rental company here.

My aunt had a new Lexus LS that was totaled in the mid-90's and she got a Cutlass Supreme as her rental while they settled the claim, I remember it being such a huge step down from what she had been driving.

fintail · August 2016

Worthy parts car for scrap value. the radiator shell and steering wheel are likely worth the asking prices. Probably best for trim pieces and glass - fintails can really rust, and that one looks beyond the point of no return.

nelsonf said:
Fintail, just needs a bit of wax:

http://bringatrailer.com/2016/08/25/100-fintail-1966-mercedes-benz-230s/

fintail · August 2016

Since 2003 it looks like. Edmunds has had times in the past where it was extremely busy - it's a bit more subdued today.

The white wheel looks cool, but I'd end up wearing clean gloves while driving, unless it is made of a material you can clean and not harm. I am sure it isn't hard plastic like in an old car.

Here's a shot of the wood in my car, it works well with the interior color, and is unusual - one of the factors that made up my mind. I like this more than shiny wood, the finish is closer to what one finds on a vintage car, or on old furniture:

Yep, the fintail is still alive and well. A quirk here and there, but pretty strong for an unrestored car of its age. I've actually been to the MB Museum in Stuttgart three times, and toured the factory at Sindelfingen twice. It really is a cool experience.

Here's the fintail posing with the new car:

driver100 said:

Fintail....over 37000 post...how long have yoou been here!

The stripes were available here in black or brown. I don't think I will get a light color steering wheel but I would prefer it if they had it.....the brighter the better for me.

I believe there were two aluminum trims available with different patterns. I like the aluminum look, but a lot of people see the wood and they love the wood look. I think I like the wood because it reminds me of the tradition of fine cars......they had those nice wood instrument panels.

Do you still have that beautiful fintail MB that I assume gave you your name? I don't know if you have been to the Mercedes factory and museum in Stuttgart, but the tour was one of the best trips we have ever done....very worthwhile.

graphicguy · August 2016

houdini1 said:

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

Ooooooo.....I like that!
For me, the quilted two tone seats and pinstripes are a little over the top.

I'm Italian. I like that sort of look. I know I'm probably in the minority, though.

houdini1 · August 2016

fintail said:
Since 2003 it looks like. Edmunds has had times in the past where it was extremely busy - it's a bit more subdued today.

The white wheel looks cool, but I'd end up wearing clean gloves while driving, unless it is made of a material you can clean and not harm. I am sure it isn't hard plastic like in an old car.

Here's a shot of the wood in my car, it works well with the interior color, and is unusual - one of the factors that made up my mind. I like this more than shiny wood, the finish is closer to what one finds on a vintage car, or on old furniture:

Yep, the fintail is still alive and well. A quirk here and there, but pretty strong for an unrestored car of its age. I've actually been to the MB Museum in Stuttgart three times, and toured the factory at Sindelfingen twice. It really is a cool experience.

Here's the fintail posing with the new car:

driver100 said:

Fintail....over 37000 post...how long have yoou been here!

The stripes were available here in black or brown. I don't think I will get a light color steering wheel but I would prefer it if they had it.....the brighter the better for me.

I believe there were two aluminum trims available with different patterns. I like the aluminum look, but a lot of people see the wood and they love the wood look. I think I like the wood because it reminds me of the tradition of fine cars......they had those nice wood instrument panels.

Do you still have that beautiful fintail MB that I assume gave you your name? I don't know if you have been to the Mercedes factory and museum in Stuttgart, but the tour was one of the best trips we have ever done....very worthwhile.

I really like that interior.

thebean · August 2016

@fintail, I love that old Benz. What a beauty!

houdini1 · August 2016

driver100 said:

fintail said:
I see that in both the US and Canada, the large gauge screen is part of the highest premium package. In the US, that package makes the car really loaded - and would be a must-have for me. It also includes HUD, which is something that becomes useful. I like to know what the engine is doing - in my diesel, the thing is just above idle at some speeds and gears, it's fascinating. If I didn't care, I would get a hybrid

White with what color interior? White on beige/sand works well, kind of a FL color too.

driver100 said:

The package I got includes the virtual guages. I just read a review where the reviewer says he likes the Progressive layout because it has the most information on the screen, and Mercedes drivers don't need a tach.
We have had about 6 white cars in a row, so I really wanted to go with the new red......but, I like the contrast of the white with the black roof.....white is better in Florida, and I know I won't get tired of it.

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

Beautiful interior driver.

jmonroe · August 2016

houdini1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:
I've been reading a lot of good things about the upcoming Genesis G80 and G90. I will probably give them a try when they are available. Biggest downside according to reviewers is not having any "brand cache and heritage" which doesn't bother me a bit if I like the cars.
It might bother you if you are forced to resell early and take the massive depreciation hit (sometimes forced by others negligent driving). Other then that, it would be nice if more makers made world-class cars.
"They" said the same thing about the Lexus LS400 when it first came out. The trick is, you have to produce a luxury car that offers the same level of luxury as the brands with "cache", but at a better price. That's what Lexus did and it worked.
According to Hyundai (Genesis?) the new G90's body is 80% more rigid than the Equus it replaces, and the Equus wasn't a slouch. Supposedly, it is also more rigid that the Merc S 550. If true, that is a very good sign of a well built car. Got my attention anyway.

Dammit, you are getting serious about this aren't you !! :@

jmonroe

jmonroe · August 2016

houdini1 said:

graphicguy said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:
Nice, I approve of that. As an E400, I assume leather is standard. What color wood?

My prior E had the same light grey interior, but tex. The current one has the relatively rare brown leather with brown open pore wood, it is quite pretty.

driver100 said:

I went with light beige...the lighter the better for me. The last one was very light gray.

I got brown open pore wood as well. They have about 5 or 6 choices now, including some very shiny materials with pinstripes and some brushed aluminum looks to make a Mercedes seem more with it for younger people. I wonder how much longer MB will use wood, and what percentage use shiny metal look compared to wood?

Pinstripe Look:

Ooooooo.....I like that!
For me, the quilted two tone seats and pinstripes are a little over the top.

That makes two of us and you can add the light colored steering wheel to my list.

I guess I just can't appreciate a real luxo machine.

jmonroe

jmonroe · August 2016

nelsonf said:
Fintail, just needs a bit of wax:

http://bringatrailer.com/2016/08/25/100-fintail-1966-mercedes-benz-230s/

Ah c'mon now...that'll buff right out.

jmonroe

houdini1 · August 2016

jmonroe said:

houdini1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

andres3 said:

houdini1 said:
I've been reading a lot of good things about the upcoming Genesis G80 and G90. I will probably give them a try when they are available. Biggest downside according to reviewers is not having any "brand cache and heritage" which doesn't bother me a bit if I like the cars.
It might bother you if you are forced to resell early and take the massive depreciation hit (sometimes forced by others negligent driving). Other then that, it would be nice if more makers made world-class cars.
"They" said the same thing about the Lexus LS400 when it first came out. The trick is, you have to produce a luxury car that offers the same level of luxury as the brands with "cache", but at a better price. That's what Lexus did and it worked.
According to Hyundai (Genesis?) the new G90's body is 80% more rigid than the Equus it replaces, and the Equus wasn't a slouch. Supposedly, it is also more rigid that the Merc S 550. If true, that is a very good sign of a well built car. Got my attention anyway.
Dammit, you are getting serious about this aren't you !! :@

jmonroe

Well, you seem to like yours. It is your second one, even after that fubar with your wife's car. Maybe it is the perfect car for grouchy old men like us who are hard to please.

jmonroe · August 2016

fintail said:

Here's a shot of the wood in my car, it works well with the interior color, and is unusual - one of the factors that made up my mind. I like this more than shiny wood, the finish is closer to what one finds on a vintage car, or on old furniture:

.

That's almost as nice as the wood trim on my '15 Genny but not quite there yet.

If I had to guess, I'd say MB will get it right on the next model redo or the one after that.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright · August 2016

stickguy said:
I always heard that they were selling them at a discount to build the brand.

Well they achieved their goal in the long term, so discounting heavily to build the brand seems like a good investment.

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