Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

fintail said:

1/3 of deaths are due to drunk drivers? Sounds fishy to me. Sounds like the prelude for some draconian infringements on our rights in the name of "safety".

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/crime-law/fatality-reported-in-crash-on-i-70-e-huber-heights/nsLTt/

You can add speeding to the causes of deaths. Here's most recent one in our area. Two guys racing on I70. one street racer stopped by second OSP at about location where car video starts in pursuit apparently and second thought he'd escape from the Ohio State Patrol in pursuit. I couldn't be sure the car of the runner was a Malibu but the article says it is was.

Video now has ODOT videos of criminal driving at beginning before the trooper cam. Luckily no one else was hurt by one of the criminals as he went across a 6-lane highway in Huber Heights.

The ODOT emergency response truck was just putting out a hot pink caution sign saying emergency scene ahead as I passed the last escape ramp. I almost backed up to that ramp but the truck was on the berm lane, knowing how often accidents block the interstate in that stretch. Took 20 minutes to get to next exit. I'd like to have stop strips to put out for the people who go around the backed up traffic waiting using the berm to get ahead of everyone to the next exit.

So I got caught in traffic backup going to tire store south of the crash and fire. I discovered all the traffic lights around the major exit were out because the perp hit a pole and knocked out about 7 traffic lights at exit. Wires hung low over interstate so traffic was stopped because wires were too low overhead. 6 hours of backup.

So many trucks having to get off at the last two exits mixed with late afternoon traffic. Gridlock.

Just because of a need for speed so two guys could expend a little testosterone in competition.

sda

I have to believe a significant factor in the rise in deaths is because of distracted driving. It amazes and disturbs me how many drivers I see using their smart phone while driving. It only takes a split second for something to happen, the distracted driver is not aware and can't respond and crash.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

CBS News....Traffic deaths increasing - up 18% over the last 2 years:

The report states that traffic death have increased 18 percent over the last two years. More than 19,000 people were estimated killed in the first half of 2016 alone.

“Our complacency when it comes to highway fatalities is killing us,” said Deborah Hersman, the National Safety Council’s CEO.

Hersman, who is also the former chair of the NTSB, said that there are three major causes of traffic fatalities.

“One third of all our deaths on our roads are due to alcohol impaired drivers,” she said. “We’ve seen speed limits going up across the nation -- we know that’s adding to the death toll. And then finally distraction. All you have to do is walk out near a roadway, you can see distracted pedestrians, distracted drivers.”

The surge in traffic deaths comes as more Americans are driving due to lower gas prices and an improving economy.

Federal regulators are still trying to understand what’s behind the sudden change in fatalities. A U.S. Department of Transportation report found a 13 percent increase in deaths among cyclists and a 10 percent increase for both pedestrians and young drivers in 2015.

“We are absolutely going in the wrong direction when it comes to highway fatalities. We’ve got to figure out what’s going on and put a stop to it,” Hersman said.

1/3 of deaths are due to drunk drivers? Sounds fishy to me. Sounds like the prelude for some draconian infringements on our rights in the name of "safety".

1/3 give or take sounds about right especially if you take into account all impaired drivers.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

You can always find one that well kept as you can always find a domestic car that well kept. However the vast majority are not that well kept.

imidazol97

I just saw another exemplar of that model with some patina but what I'd call perfect at a shopping center cruise in this week. Perfect color. Note the color-matched background on the dashboard...

First time I've used photobucket. It's a mess now with ads. Even got one of those jiggling popup danger alerts telling me to download the video upgrade because my computer couldn't properly display things. Probably installs a rootkit when they pretend to upgrade flash or something. LOL.

qbrozen

houdini1 said:

All cars depreciate by that much at least...as soon as you drive them off the lot.

Uhh … no, definitely not true. If you get a good deal when you buy it (end of model year), and pick a model with low depreciation, you can come out smelling like a rose. I owned a 2011 Silverado, purchased new, kept for 2 years, it only depreciated $3k over the 2 years I owned it. Another regular here, @qbrozen. He had a Mustang GT, purchased new, kept around 2 years, and it depreciated less than your $7k. Now the car he traded the Mustang in for, the Cadillac, that one depreciated, what, $17k ? over the course of about 2 years. Lesson here is, if you don’t want massive depreciation, don’t buy a new luxury car.

Depends on how you calculate depreciation. From my purchase price to my trade price, the Mustang lost only about $3k in 18 mos, while the Caddy lost, yes, $17k in about the same amount of time. From MSRP, it looks much worse on both counts. I think something like $10k on the pony and nearly 30 large on the caddy.

You would always calculate depreciation on the cost, at least in financial reports and taxes.

I agree 100%, however the people who predict depreciation do not have the actual cost to work with, so they use the only figure they have, which is MSRP. Hyundai, for instance, has always discounted their cars heavily from MSRP, thus their depreciation seems much more than cars sold at or close to MSRP.

Yes, that was why I was specifying. I agree how it SHOULD be done, but not everyone sees it that way. Especially those on message boards who want to complain how much their car has depreciated and they don't want to consider they bought it at a deep discount.

snakeweasel

sda said:

I have to believe a significant factor in the rise in deaths is because of distracted driving. It amazes and disturbs me how many drivers I see using their smart phone while driving. It only takes a split second for something to happen, the distracted driver is not aware and can't respond and crash.

I am on the fence about this one. While distracted drivers are more likely to be in an accident I do see plenty of people on their phone apparently being very aware of whats going on around them (yes that is very possible). Now here is the thing, if it was as dangerous as some people claim we should have seen a major uptick in accidents and deaths a long time ago.

Not to mention there are other things that can distract a driver. Such as talking to a passenger, kids misbehaving in the back seat, radios, other accidents on the side of the road and these huge and ofttimes confusing infotainment systems cars have these days.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

CBS News....Traffic deaths increasing - up 18% over the last 2 years:

The report states that traffic death have increased 18 percent over the last two years. More than 19,000 people were estimated killed in the first half of 2016 alone.

“Our complacency when it comes to highway fatalities is killing us,” said Deborah Hersman, the National Safety Council’s CEO.

Hersman, who is also the former chair of the NTSB, said that there are three major causes of traffic fatalities.

“One third of all our deaths on our roads are due to alcohol impaired drivers,” she said. “We’ve seen speed limits going up across the nation -- we know that’s adding to the death toll. And then finally distraction. All you have to do is walk out near a roadway, you can see distracted pedestrians, distracted drivers.”

The surge in traffic deaths comes as more Americans are driving due to lower gas prices and an improving economy.

Federal regulators are still trying to understand what’s behind the sudden change in fatalities. A U.S. Department of Transportation report found a 13 percent increase in deaths among cyclists and a 10 percent increase for both pedestrians and young drivers in 2015.

“We are absolutely going in the wrong direction when it comes to highway fatalities. We’ve got to figure out what’s going on and put a stop to it,” Hersman said.

1/3 of deaths are due to drunk drivers? Sounds fishy to me. Sounds like the prelude for some draconian infringements on our rights in the name of "safety".

I am surprised drunk drivers aren't higher than 1/3. Another headline I saw was accidents way up where there is legal marijuana being sold!

That stuck out with me as well. There are lots of chemicals that impair besides alcohol but that report ignores them. More fish.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

I just saw another exemplar of that model with some patina but what I'd call perfect at a shopping center cruise in this week. Perfect color. Note the color-matched background on the dashboard...

First time I've used photobucket. It's a mess now with ads. Even got one of those jiggling popup danger alerts telling me to download the video upgrade because my computer couldn't properly display things. Probably installs a rootkit when they pretend to upgrade flash or something. LOL.












Wow, that is gorgeous. All it needs is a pretty young lady begind the wheel with a wide-brimmed hat, sunglasses and a scarf.

I love those cars and that color combo is, as you said, perfect. The prices those bring these days reflects the view of most people in the hobby that they are highly desirable.

You're right about Photobucket. I have used it for years and the last few times it has been a mess of ads. Unfortunate.

ab348

I just had a meeting with the fellow who was so hot and bothered about buying my Cutlass. In the end, he couldn't spend what was needed to pry it out of my hands so I am keeping it. I feel good about that. He offered a good price, probably slightly above what I would expect in this market, but I'm not done with it yet. Fortunately I don't need the cash.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

fintail said:

1/3 of deaths are due to drunk drivers? Sounds fishy to me. Sounds like the prelude for some draconian infringements on our rights in the name of "safety".

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/crime-law/fatality-reported-in-crash-on-i-70-e-huber-heights/nsLTt/

You can add speeding to the causes of deaths. Here's most recent one in our area. Two guys racing on I70. one street racer stopped by second OSP at about location where car video starts in pursuit apparently and second thought he'd escape from the Ohio State Patrol in pursuit. I couldn't be sure the car of the runner was a Malibu but the article says it is was.

Video now has ODOT videos of criminal driving at beginning before the trooper cam. Luckily no one else was hurt by one of the criminals as he went across a 6-lane highway in Huber Heights.

The ODOT emergency response truck was just putting out a hot pink caution sign saying emergency scene ahead as I passed the last escape ramp. I almost backed up to that ramp but the truck was on the berm lane, knowing how often accidents block the interstate in that stretch. Took 20 minutes to get to next exit. I'd like to have stop strips to put out for the people who go around the backed up traffic waiting using the berm to get ahead of everyone to the next exit.

So I got caught in traffic backup going to tire store south of the crash and fire. I discovered all the traffic lights around the major exit were out because the perp hit a pole and knocked out about 7 traffic lights at exit. Wires hung low over interstate so traffic was stopped because wires were too low overhead. 6 hours of backup.

So many trucks having to get off at the last two exits mixed with late afternoon traffic. Gridlock.

Just because of a need for speed so two guys could expend a little testosterone in competition.

I'm just as guilty of dancing the macho mambo as the next guy but not in traffic. If you have to behave immaturely do it by yourself on a deserted road.

I too hate those entitled people who try to go around traffic on the shoulder or grass. I once was stuck in accident gridlock on I-90 and idiots were running down the narrow shoulder to get to the exit about a mile away. One almost took my mirror off.

I got a good laugh to see later that a trooper was sitting at the exit ramp pulling over every single one of them while his buddy handled the accident.

snakeweasel

qbrozen said:

houdini1 said:

snakeweasel said:

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

driver100 said:

All cars depreciate by that much at least...as soon as you drive them off the lot.

Uhh … no, definitely not true. If you get a good deal when you buy it (end of model year), and pick a model with low depreciation, you can come out smelling like a rose.

I owned a 2011 Silverado, purchased new, kept for 2 years, it only depreciated $3k over the 2 years I owned it.

Another regular here, @qbrozen. He had a Mustang GT, purchased new, kept around 2 years, and it depreciated less than your $7k. Now the car he traded the Mustang in for, the Cadillac, that one depreciated, what, $17k ? over the course of about 2 years.

Lesson here is, if you don’t want massive depreciation, don’t buy a new luxury car.

Depends on how you calculate depreciation. From my purchase price to my trade price, the Mustang lost only about $3k in 18 mos, while the Caddy lost, yes, $17k in about the same amount of time. From MSRP, it looks much worse on both counts. I think something like $10k on the pony and nearly 30 large on the caddy.

You would always calculate depreciation on the cost, at least in financial reports and taxes.

I agree 100%, however the people who predict depreciation do not have the actual cost to work with, so they use the only figure they have, which is MSRP. Hyundai, for instance, has always discounted their cars heavily from MSRP, thus their depreciation seems much more than cars sold at or close to MSRP.

Yes, that was why I was specifying. I agree how it SHOULD be done, but not everyone sees it that way. Especially those on message boards who want to complain how much their car has depreciated and they don't want to consider they bought it at a deep discount.

It was on the old "stories from the sales front lines" board that I had this discussion with someone. They were telling me I should have gotten something like a Honda over my Hyundai since the Hyundai had a much lower resale value. I kept telling him that yes it did have a lower resale value but the original sales price was much lower to begin with.

Somehow the only thing that mattered was resale value.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

Wow....that's beautiful.

I actually toyed with an E Class (previous gen) when the Caddy was giving me fits. I was looking at the C Class, but one of the salespeople asked if I had ever driven an E. He let me test an E350....stickered somewhere in the low $60s IIRC.

I can see the appeal. Not fast, but fast enough. Not overtly sporty, but sporty enough. Solid at a tank. Impressive!

There are some leftover '16s at the dealers around me. All their ads claim they're "priced to clear out". Not in the market, but if I were, and able to score one of those at close to $50K, I would be a player.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

CBS News....Traffic deaths increasing - up 18% over the last 2 years:

The report states that traffic death have increased 18 percent over the last two years. More than 19,000 people were estimated killed in the first half of 2016 alone.

“Our complacency when it comes to highway fatalities is killing us,” said Deborah Hersman, the National Safety Council’s CEO.

Hersman, who is also the former chair of the NTSB, said that there are three major causes of traffic fatalities.

“One third of all our deaths on our roads are due to alcohol impaired drivers,” she said. “We’ve seen speed limits going up across the nation -- we know that’s adding to the death toll. And then finally distraction. All you have to do is walk out near a roadway, you can see distracted pedestrians, distracted drivers.”

The surge in traffic deaths comes as more Americans are driving due to lower gas prices and an improving economy.

Federal regulators are still trying to understand what’s behind the sudden change in fatalities. A U.S. Department of Transportation report found a 13 percent increase in deaths among cyclists and a 10 percent increase for both pedestrians and young drivers in 2015.

“We are absolutely going in the wrong direction when it comes to highway fatalities. We’ve got to figure out what’s going on and put a stop to it,” Hersman said.

Yes, the Safety [non-permissible content removed] always have to justify their existence. A few comments;
Fatality numbers are meaningless unless they are adjusted for the miles traveled.
"Speeding related" deaths don't distinguish between accidents where a vehicle is traveling in excess of the speed limit and deaths where the vehicle was traveling at or below the speed limit but was traveling too fast for the road conditions. It recalls how some DUI stats will label an accident as "alcohol related" because a passenger was intoxicated.

Yeah...I find those fatality causes dubious, at best. The MADD lobby is huge and has lots of funds at stake. They have to find ways to keep that money machine printing Benjamins. MADD is well past an advocacy group. MADD is big business now.

Not endorsing impaired driving,but if that 18% rise is indeed true, texting would have to be at the top of that list of causes. Plus, as you point out RB, there is a pretty big increase in miles traveled.

I see they don't reference that at all. I want to know what the fatality rate is per miles traveled.

Traffic fatalities have been dropping at a pretty healthy rate over the past couple of decades. And, all of a sudden they go up? There has to be some change in the way they measure alcohol related driving fatalities.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

I'm just as guilty of dancing the macho mambo as the next guy but not in traffic. If you have to behave immaturely do it by yourself on a deserted road.

I-180 in Northern IL. It's a 13 mile spur that currently has no real purpose and is likely the least used interstate highway. I travel it multiple times a year (usually on weekends) and about half the time I see no one else on the road, in either direction. It does get tempting to open it up.

I too hate those entitled people who try to go around traffic on the shoulder or grass. I once was stuck in accident gridlock on I-90 and idiots were running down the narrow shoulder to get to the exit about a mile away. One almost took my mirror off.


A few years ago there was some construction on one of my routes to work where the right lane was blocked and you ended up with a long line of cars in the left lane and the right lane being open. Well I decided waiting in that left lane was not for me so when I went that route I would get in the right lane pass the traffic and make a right turn down a side street right before the right lane ended and follow a alternate route.

Well there were plenty of times some #@&^ would see me coming down the right lane and move over in an attempt to block me. :@

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

So this is saying you get the Truecar price, AND an additional $1,000 off if you go through Sam's Club? Sounds a little too good to be true.

I was ready to complain to the hosts about the size of the ads until I saw your moniker.

Sounds interesting. I guess it all comes down to whether the TrueCar price is good. An extra $1000 off would be the gravy.

EDIT: I went to Sam's and punched in a 2017 Mustang just like mine. TrueCar price was $2 k off sticker which is what I got in July. So that part is good. Another $1000 would be sweet.

However, I got about $2000 more for my trade for a total of $4k off vs $3k for the Sam's offer. Not really a direct comparison as I got my car at the end of the year (July) and the 2017 are just in.

My understanding is that Truecar prices are good but there are a a certain number of people that do get lower prices on the car so it's not the lowest price paid but close.

Funny, I used TrueCar and Edmunds figures when calculating my offer on the last car. The dealer initially rejected it but later came around. I wonder if I had gotten an acceptance right off the bat because I had a coupon if I would have felt less satisfied. Maybe you need to work for the deal to feel like you "won". Wouldn't suprise me if salespeople plan it that way.

The last time I was working a TrueCar price was on the Pacifica, a few months back. I had the page printed off in my hand, and a second page showing which incentives I had checked off to arrive at that price. After arguing for a while, they agreed to the TrueCar price, but when they showed me their OTD, it was about $1,100 higher than my calculations. Doc fees and some kind of BS dealer addons. I walked, they did not get a sale.

When figuring the OTD for a new car here in Houston, I add 6.25% for sales tax and $300 for title, license plates, and doc fees. I have bought several new vehicles where the dealer came in under the $300 amount, and several where they came in over. Doesn't matter, I have my numbers, printed out, everything neatly arranged in a folder. They do the deal, or they don't.

dino001

Truecar no longer "guarantees" lowest price with their dealers, just "fair". Dealers were quickly falling off when they did lowest price thing, for obvious reasons. It's now basically a reasearch tool like five others.

henryn

And a further thought about TrueCar pricing. I have been following the prices paid sub-forum for Honda CR-Vs for several years now. People regularly beat the TrueCar price by $1,000 or more. It depends a great deal on the part of the country that you’re in, some areas the prices are much higher than others.

Back in 2011, I was within an inch of buying a new Accord. I was following the prices paid Accord forum here on Edmunds, and no dealer in Houston would get within shouting range of the prices I was seeing there. Someone in that forum posted about buying a new Accord at a dealer in San Antonio for a very attractive price. I obtained from the buyer the name of the dealership and the name of the salesman, and reached out. Yes, they would do exactly the same deal for me. And they had the car in different colors, which color did I prefer? And yes, they would pick me up at the airport, just tell them the flight number and time.

Life intervened, circumstances changed, I did not buy a new car right then. But I still would like to know why a dealer in San Antonio was happy to sell me a new Accord for more than a thousand dollars cheaper than any dealer in Houston.

henryn

snakeweasel said:

A few years ago there was some construction on one of my routes to work where the right lane was blocked and you ended up with a long line of cars in the left lane and the right lane being open. Well I decided waiting in that left lane was not for me so when I went that route I would get in the right lane pass the traffic and make a right turn down a side street right before the right lane ended and follow a alternate route.

Well there were plenty of times some #@&^ would see me coming down the right lane and move over in an attempt to block me. :@

I do that on a regular basis. Well, almost that. On the Freeway, headed home, when traffic slows down to stop and go, I watch the rear view mirror. I am in the right most continuing lane, there is an "entrance lane" to my right, for people coming up an on ramp to give them time to merge. When I see in my rear view mirror some {expletive deleted} jump out of my lane into the merge lane to run ahead a hundred yards or so, and then force his way back into line, I block him. Pure and simple.

I see a lot of other people do the same thing, so perhaps that is the mind set they are showing when they try to block you. I would not do that when there is an exit ahead that they could get to.

When I get to my exit, there is a long run with an extra lane to the right for the exit only. I get into that lane as soon as it appears. Inevitably, when I get close to the actual exist, there is a long line of {expletive deleted} trying to force their way back into traffic, blocking me from taking my exit.

I know there has been a lot written about the phenomenon of how people behave so differently when behind the wheel of a car versus real life. It is interesting, and it is disturbing.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

Well it looks like the windows are up so it's not so much a "hair blower" as it is a fish tank.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

And a further thought about TrueCar pricing. I have been following the prices paid sub-forum for Honda CR-Vs for several years now. People regularly beat the TrueCar price by $1,000 or more. It depends a great deal on the part of the country that you’re in, some areas the prices are much higher than others.

Back in 2011, I was within an inch of buying a new Accord. I was following the prices paid Accord forum here on Edmunds, and no dealer in Houston would get within shouting range of the prices I was seeing there. Someone in that forum posted about buying a new Accord at a dealer in San Antonio for a very attractive price. I obtained from the buyer the name of the dealership and the name of the salesman, and reached out. Yes, they would do exactly the same deal for me. And they had the car in different colors, which color did I prefer? And yes, they would pick me up at the airport, just tell them the flight number and time.

Life intervened, circumstances changed, I did not buy a new car right then. But I still would like to know why a dealer in San Antonio was happy to sell me a new Accord for more than a thousand dollars cheaper than any dealer in Houston.

I don't understand that either. If you look at the different cost of doing business between NY and Texas I could see a $1000 difference but not between two cities.

Maybe you hit at just the right time and the second dealer had just taken a big shipment. I'd love to know a dealer that would give you a free ride from the airport. Some dealers won't give you the time of day.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

Why, do you wear a toupee? I never realized there was an upside to bring bald.

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

And a further thought about TrueCar pricing. I have been following the prices paid sub-forum for Honda CR-Vs for several years now. People regularly beat the TrueCar price by $1,000 or more. It depends a great deal on the part of the country that you’re in, some areas the prices are much higher than others.

Back in 2011, I was within an inch of buying a new Accord. I was following the prices paid Accord forum here on Edmunds, and no dealer in Houston would get within shouting range of the prices I was seeing there. Someone in that forum posted about buying a new Accord at a dealer in San Antonio for a very attractive price. I obtained from the buyer the name of the dealership and the name of the salesman, and reached out. Yes, they would do exactly the same deal for me. And they had the car in different colors, which color did I prefer? And yes, they would pick me up at the airport, just tell them the flight number and time.

Life intervened, circumstances changed, I did not buy a new car right then. But I still would like to know why a dealer in San Antonio was happy to sell me a new Accord for more than a thousand dollars cheaper than any dealer in Houston.

I don't understand that either. If you look at the different cost of doing business between NY and Texas I could see a $1000 difference but not between two cities.

Maybe you hit at just the right time and the second dealer had just taken a big shipment. I'd love to know a dealer that would give you a free ride from the airport. Some dealers won't give you the time of day.

When I bought this Passat TDI, the dealer delivered it for me. That was about 30 miles, 40 minutes drive time, and he drove it to my house and I gave him a ride back to his place of business. Small dealer, friendly, showed me the invoice where he bought the car at auction. The other Passat TDI that I almost bought (and now wish I had bought as well), that was another small, friendly used car lot. Why are the small businesses easier to do business with than the big guys?

stickguy

when I got my sonata, I checked true car, and price was good, but I ended up beating it (by quite a bit by using the Edmunds Price Promise (through the Edmunds app on my phone). That was really low! And one thing I liked better is, you picked an actual until in stock to get pricing on. No putting in a general description, and having to see what they had later. I selected my car, and got numbers on that exact one.

fintail

That's racing, not speeding, IMO. Speeding is cruising along at 10-15 over a usually arbitrarily set and enforced limit that was established to ensure some cash comes into the hands of the revenue enforcement set. Completely different problem.

imidazol97 said:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/crime-law/fatality-reported-in-crash-on-i-70-e-huber-heights/nsLTt/

You can add speeding to the causes of deaths. Here's most recent one in our area. Two guys racing on I70. one street racer stopped by second OSP at about location where car video starts in pursuit apparently and second thought he'd escape from the Ohio State Patrol in pursuit.

fintail

I bet today even a rookie negotiator could get a 60K MSRP W212 E-class for 50K. There might not be a ton of stock left, but it is nearly September, and dealers will want to get rid of a now-old model. I bet 20% off is easily possible.

graphicguy said:

Wow....that's beautiful.

I actually toyed with an E Class (previous gen) when the Caddy was giving me fits. I was looking at the C Class, but one of the salespeople asked if I had ever driven an E. He let me test an E350....stickered somewhere in the low $60s IIRC.

I can see the appeal. Not fast, but fast enough. Not overtly sporty, but sporty enough. Solid at a tank. Impressive!

There are some leftover '16s at the dealers around me. All their ads claim they're "priced to clear out". Not in the market, but if I were, and able to score one of those at close to $50K, I would be a player.

fintail

A mere 15 years ago, a pristine 280SL could be found all day for 30K. Now they are 75K+ and more. 190SLs have gone even more insane, where 30K cars have become 100K+ cars. The market realized it had ignored some cars. Now for the market to do the same for fintails

ab348 said:

Wow, that is gorgeous. All it needs is a pretty young lady begind the wheel with a wide-brimmed hat, sunglasses and a scarf.

I love those cars and that color combo is, as you said, perfect. The prices those bring these days reflects the view of most people in the hobby that they are highly desirable.

You're right about Photobucket. I have used it for years and the last few times it has been a mess of ads. Unfortunate.

fintail

I believe distracted drivers more than drunk drivers. I see nothing out there to suggest people are drinking and driving more, but the experience of everyone here shows that people are playing on their phones more while "driving". Those laws need teeth.

sda said:

I have to believe a significant factor in the rise in deaths is because of distracted driving. It amazes and disturbs me how many drivers I see using their smart phone while driving. It only takes a split second for something to happen, the distracted driver is not aware and can't respond and crash.

fintail

Wow, perfect color combo, what a lovely car. Those cars (W113) had a body color dash, yes, if you see one mismatched, it is a repaint. Note that car also has a dealer-installed under dash AC unit.

Photobucket is a weird mess now.

imidazol97 said:

I just saw another exemplar of that model with some patina but what I'd call perfect at a shopping center cruise in this week. Perfect color. Note the color-matched background on the dashboard...

First time I've used photobucket. It's a mess now with ads. Even got one of those jiggling popup danger alerts telling me to download the video upgrade because my computer couldn't properly display things. Probably installs a rootkit when they pretend to upgrade flash or something. LOL.

fintail

Of course. Most old cars look dated and tired if not maintained. Even MBs or even Rolls Royce often fall into neglect. But if maintained, an old MB has more presence and class than most old cars, and most new cars.

snakeweasel said:

You can always find one that well kept as you can always find a domestic car that well kept. However the vast majority are not that well kept.

cdnpinhead

sda said:

I have to believe a significant factor in the rise in deaths is because of distracted driving. It amazes and disturbs me how many drivers I see using their smart phone while driving. It only takes a split second for something to happen, the distracted driver is not aware and can't respond and crash.

I absolutely agree. I was going to write the same post after I got caught up, but you saved me the effort.

stickguy

just noticed that the price delta for hybrids is still rather large. Got attracted to the Accord Hybrid thanks to the MPG (and of course, shiny new thing syndrome). So, priced one out, and they are premium priced.

IIRC, for an EX-L, so comparably equipped (though no XM on the hybrid for some reason), the 4 cyl is $29.6k, 6 cyl is $31.7K, and the hybrid is $33.7K. so about 4 grand upcharge from the plain old 4. Assuming the hybrid is about the same in performance (acceleration), it is going to take a long time to make back the extra money just on MPG, especially if you primarily do highway driving, where the base car already shines.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

Why, do you wear a toupee? I never realized there was an upside to bring bald.

There is one good upside to being bald; saves time and money otherwise spent on haircuts.

bwia

I was watching a Genesis G90 video review by Moto-Man (I believe). He spoke positively about the car and concluded by asking, "what is a luxury car anyway?" Is it the brand name, pedigree, price, leather with different color thread piping, or fit and finish?

He said the G90 has all those intangible attributes of quality yet some people are not ready to accept it as a genuine luxury car. Your thoughts?

jmonroe

henryn said:

And a further thought about TrueCar pricing. I have been following the prices paid sub-forum for Honda CR-Vs for several years now. People regularly beat the TrueCar price by $1,000 or more. It depends a great deal on the part of the country that you’re in, some areas the prices are much higher than others.

And I can attest to that.

The last 3 new cars I have purchased have been from out of the Burgh area. Two of them in Ohio ('09 Genny and '12 Legacy) and my '15 Genny in VA.

I never thought I'd be one to do this and almost laughed at Son #1 when he bought his '02 Altima (not black) in '04 in VA. When I was considering the '09 Genny he went out on the web and found the one I bought in the Akron Ohio area. He likes doing this kind of stuff and all I have to do is show some mild interest in getting a new car and he jumps at the opportunity to go searching for a car for me.

When I got the '15 Genny his mother accused me of putting him up to it. All I said was something like, "I wonder what kind of a deal I can get for the exact car I want because the 3 dealers I went to around here don't have it or anything close to what I'd consider". That did it, he was off and running. He did searches and if nothing hit he kept expanding his radius. He called and wanted to know my limit because he found one in Charlotte NC. I told him that was waaay outside of my limit. His response was, "OK, I thought so, no problem. I'm just sitting here clicking on the keyboard. There has to be one out there closer and I'll find it". And he found it about 15 minutes later in VA just outside of DC, about a 4 hour drive.

I've come to the conclusion that South Western PA is not a good car buyers market area based on my last 3 new car purchases. It's not a bad place to live but it's a bad place to buy cars.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

bwia said:

I was watching a Genesis G90 video review by Moto-Man (I believe). He spoke positively about the car and concluded by asking, "what is a luxury car anyway?" Is it the brand name, pedigree, price, leather with different color thread piping, or fit and finish?

He said the G90 has all those intangible attributes of quality yet some people are not ready to accept it as a genuine luxury car. Your thoughts?

Get what you like and forget what others may think.

Now when the Equus first came out I had the opportunity to be in it and also a comparably sized MB within an hour of each other. Truth be told the MB didn't have much, if anything, over the Equus.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

Why, do you wear a toupee? I never realized there was an upside to bring bald.

No, it's all real. And you're wrong about there being an "upside to being bald". On more that one occasion the young girl giving me my perm has said, "do you know how lucky you are to have all this hair"? When I say no tell me. They proceed with how the bald guys are always whining that they have to pay full price for a hair cut and they are only getting a quick trim around the sides. So don't try to give me that s*** because I know the real story.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

I don't think insurance companies should avoid paying diminished value (DM) because it isn't easy to calculate. I do know it isn't right that the victim in an accident should be out of pocket.

OK now I will sound like an insurance industry spokesman. Insurance companies avoid paying diminished value because you don't insure against it. Your policy basically states that they will give you the value of the car if totaled or fix it if not totaled.

Now if you want to be insured for diminished value then you would pay more in insurance premiums.

You can't sue your own insurance company for diminished value, but if someone hits your 2017 Mercedes that has 150 miles on it, and causes $20,000 damage, you can certainly make a DV claim against his/her insurance company, with whom you have no contract.

Also, it has been my experience that whenever the CARFAX report shows that yellow triangle and the word ACCIDENT! on it, no matter how old your car is, it's going to sell for less than an exact comparable with no accident record.

The idea is that you should be "made whole". Your brand new Benz is now a welded up, painted over car.

Mr_Shiftright

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

You can always find one that well kept as you can always find a domestic car that well kept. However the vast majority are not that well kept.

Nice little cars with outstanding build quality but not all that pleasant on a modern freeway. You can definitely feel the 70s technology.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

just noticed that the price delta for hybrids is still rather large. Got attracted to the Accord Hybrid thanks to the MPG (and of course, shiny new thing syndrome). So, priced one out, and they are premium priced.

IIRC, for an EX-L, so comparably equipped (though no XM on the hybrid for some reason), the 4 cyl is $29.6k, 6 cyl is $31.7K, and the hybrid is $33.7K. so about 4 grand upcharge from the plain old 4. Assuming the hybrid is about the same in performance (acceleration), it is going to take a long time to make back the extra money just on MPG, especially if you primarily do highway driving, where the base car already shines.

Most buyers seem to be agreeing with you. Hybrid sales are waning.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

fintail said:

Thanks. Yeah, MBs tend to age gracefully. Even modern ones hold up really well, if they are maintained. An 80s S-class has more class than most new lux cars, and a 90s model says "get out of my way" more than most anything.

I find the ride to be in common with older cars. It is firm but plush, and the cars always feel heavy. That puts some people off, but for open road cruising, it works.

Not to sure about that, nearly every MB I see that predates this century seems dated and tired.

looks better than almost every new car you could buy today:

I don't buy 'hair blowers' for obvious reasons.

jmonroe

Why, do you wear a toupee? I never realized there was an upside to bring bald.

There is one good upside to being bald; saves time and money otherwise spent on haircuts.

And shampoo!

Mr_Shiftright

I had my hair removed and some fat added. I was just sick and tired of being hit on all the time.

driver100

If I am reading this correctly, my insurance coverage should pay the full amount for a brand new car:

Keep your car brand new.
Following a collision, the cost to repair your car can
come as a real surprise. And if it’s a serious collision
and your car is a total loss, or a “write off”, your wallet
can take an even heavier hit by having to replace it
- especially when you learn how much your car has
depreciated.
Now with XXXXXX New Car Guarantee1
, if your car is
a total loss, you’re guaranteed a brand new version of
the exact model of your car, even if that new model
is more expensive than your previous one - and you’re
guaranteed for up to five years after you purchased
your new car.
Here’s how it works:
Say you buy a brand new car. Four years later, you’re
in a collision and your car is a total loss. Aviva will
write you a cheque for the current price of your car’s
newest model, even if it’s more than the original price.
Some details may vary by province so be sure to talk to
your independent broker for details.

driver100

A very successful retired insurance agent gave me this information.....which confirms the way everyone here felt about my accident situation:

First off you have no liability & looking at your vehicle the truck driver should have been charged.The police officer was way off base interrogating you instead of the responsible party. In Ontario we have no fault insurance with a set of rules to avoid dispute & clearly there will be none in your case.
You can purchase a copy of the police report but I would ask XXXX (insurance company) for a copy
I would need to see a copy of your replacement cost endorsement re the replacement coverage as insurers are free to offer their own versions. I could then advise you should XXXXXX give you a hard time

Every bit of information helps!

stickguy

now just need to find out what they think the new model costs. MSRP? TMV? something they make up?

explorerx4

@driver100,
I'm guessing there is some kind of mileage/wear and tear clause, but your car was pretty close to new.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

just noticed that the price delta for hybrids is still rather large. Got attracted to the Accord Hybrid thanks to the MPG (and of course, shiny new thing syndrome). So, priced one out, and they are premium priced.

IIRC, for an EX-L, so comparably equipped (though no XM on the hybrid for some reason), the 4 cyl is $29.6k, 6 cyl is $31.7K, and the hybrid is $33.7K. so about 4 grand upcharge from the plain old 4. Assuming the hybrid is about the same in performance (acceleration), it is going to take a long time to make back the extra money just on MPG, especially if you primarily do highway driving, where the base car already shines.

After postulating that with gas so low it would be a great time to get a killer deal on a Prius I looked at the Toyota incentives. To my dismay they are only offering $500 customer cash. Pretty lame considering they must be stacking up on the dealer's lots.

Maybe there's some extraordinary trunk money available. Or maybe the cache' of it being a Toyota is all they need. I still can't imagine they are flying off the lots.

Has anyone here actually tried to buy one? I'd be interested in hearing what kind of deals are out there.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe said:

henryn said:

And a further thought about TrueCar pricing. I have been following the prices paid sub-forum for Honda CR-Vs for several years now. People regularly beat the TrueCar price by $1,000 or more. It depends a great deal on the part of the country that you’re in, some areas the prices are much higher than others.

And I can attest to that.

The last 3 new cars I have purchased have been from out of the Burgh area. Two of them in Ohio ('09 Genny and '12 Legacy) and my '15 Genny in VA.

I never thought I'd be one to do this and almost laughed at Son #1 when he bought his '02 Altima (not black) in '04 in VA. When I was considering the '09 Genny he went out on the web and found the one I bought in the Akron Ohio area. He likes doing this kind of stuff and all I have to do is show some mild interest in getting a new car and he jumps at the opportunity to go searching for a car for me.

When I got the '15 Genny his mother accused me of putting him up to it. All I said was something like, "I wonder what kind of a deal I can get for the exact car I want because the 3 dealers I went to around here don't have it or anything close to what I'd consider". That did it, he was off and running. He did searches and if nothing hit he kept expanding his radius. He called and wanted to know my limit because he found one in Charlotte NC. I told him that was waaay outside of my limit. His response was, "OK, I thought so, no problem. I'm just sitting here clicking on the keyboard. There has to be one out there closer and I'll find it". And he found it about 15 minutes later in VA just outside of DC, about a 4 hour drive.

I've come to the conclusion that South Western PA is not a good car buyers market area based on my last 3 new car purchases. It's not a bad place to live but it's a bad place to buy cars.

jmonroe

That sounds like a great kid...can I adopt him?

stickguy

my guess, in 6 months, when Honda dealers have the same bunch of hybrids gathering dust (snow?) on the back lot, they will be seriously discounting.