Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld · December 2016

roadburner said:
We just got a 330i xDrive M Sport wagon; Melbourne Red with saddle interior. It has every option including the Track Handling Package. If it was a 340i(which you can't get) I'd already be signing the papers...

Nice. We saw a gray 328xi wagon with the track handling package on the lot last year. I stalked it online but it sold quickly.

breld · December 2016

Couldn't resist checking - that same dealer has another gray track handling package wagon.

330xi wagon

A little north of $60k! But they are advertising $3k off.

stickguy · December 2016

I have to think the depreciation on that wagon is going to make your eyes bleed. As in, 2 years from now, on the lot at $29,995. or less.

qbrozen · December 2016

Because why WOULDN'T a 4-cyl AWD station wagon have the track handling package? I know that's the type of vehicle I think of when I want to go racing.

ab348 · December 2016

stickguy said:
that seems to be the only thing it is missing, but I can live with that. Agreed about the colors, and that is a serious discount off MSRP for 9K miles in about 9 months, so lots of warranty left.

I like the colors on that too. But it does irritate my pet peeve: you order an Ash Gray interior because you want something brighter, but the backs of the front seats are finished with black covers! Arrrgh! Everyone does this now, not just M-B, and it drives me nuts.

nyccarguy · December 2016

I know it's the new normal, but I still have issues with the concept of a $60K 3 series (especially with a 4cylinder engine).

graphicguy · December 2016

Couple of questions. Was it here someone posted how to get a lease on a Nissan Leaf for nest to nothing with all the incentives? If so, there was an article showing how it's done and would like to re-read it. Maybe it wasn't because I can't find it on a search.

Not that I'm looking, but thought for just a signature, it might be a good airport runner for 3 years.

I'm an Apple guy. Although, I am forced wo use a Windows laptop for work (I have a MAcBook and iPad for personal use). Work gives us a choice for mobile phones....LG (ANDROID) or iPhone. I just turned in my LG to get an iPhone. iPhone is certainly less buggy, and has snappier performance. Kind of a toss up regarding the operating system. If you're used to Android, you tend to stick with that. Same for Apple iOS. If you're used to it, you will resist Android.

I'd go with an iPhone. Yeah....they're everywhere. But, there's good reason for that. They work, are simple to use, and are pretty stable (save for the recent iPhone 6 screen woes).

Just nailed down another iPhone 7+ for personal use. It took a week or so to get used to the size. But I wouldn't want anything else, now.

kyfdx · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
I know it's the new normal, but I still have issues with the concept of a $60K 3 series (especially with a 4cylinder engine).

Yeah.. but 248 HP.

My "high performance" 6-cylinder model from ten years ago only has 235 HP.

To be honest, an AWD 4 cylinder 3-series with a slushbox is hard for me to beat off the line. I'm a little better, once we get north of 130 mph.

fintail · December 2016

It might be a C-class thing. I had an E with that color interior, and it was all light grey, even the headliner. I agree that the black seatbacks are odd.

ab348 said:

stickguy said:
that seems to be the only thing it is missing, but I can live with that. Agreed about the colors, and that is a serious discount off MSRP for 9K miles in about 9 months, so lots of warranty left.
I like the colors on that too. But it does irritate my pet peeve: you order an Ash Gray interior because you want something brighter, but the backs of the front seats are finished with black covers! Arrrgh! Everyone does this now, not just M-B, and it drives me nuts.

stickguy · December 2016

I did not notice the seatbacks. I'll never sit back there anyway, so no biggie to me!

tjc78 · December 2016

graphicguy said:

Just nailed down another iPhone 7+ for personal use. It took a week or so to get used to the size. But I wouldn't want anything else, now.

I could never go back to a smaller phone. With an Otterbox it is a bit big for your pocket, but 90% of the time it is sitting on my desk at work. Wife just got the 7+ from a Samsung Note. She is having a little bit of a hard time adjusting, but overall likes it.

One of the biggest "problems" about Iphone is the need to use Itunes. With Android you plug it into your PC and can drag and drop any files you want as if it was a thumb drive.

OTOH getting a new Iphone all you do is plug it in, Launch Itunes and select "Restore from Backup" and everything comes over. Nice.

On the car front, I'm really liking the Elantra. I couldn't be happier with it for a second car. We have been splitting the usage and while it isn't the luxo barge the Enclave is it performs nicely. We have a year left with the Enclave and are totally in the woods with what will replace it. I still think we need an SUV with two kids in car seats and a double stroller, but time will tell. I have all intentions to ride out the lease until the end as I doubt there will be any equity in it to trade out.

stever · December 2016

tjc78 said:

graphicguy said:

Just nailed down another iPhone 7+ for personal use. It took a week or so to get used to the size. But I wouldn't want anything else, now.
I. We have a year left with the Enclave and are totally in the woods with what will replace it.

Welcome to my world.

I got my wife's iPad3 this week since she upgraded. First thing I did was take the cover off. I drop stuff as much as anyone but I figure I'm paying for the sleekness and I want to enjoy the skinniness. It does dig into my palms playing pinball though.

tjc78 · December 2016

I didn't have a good case on my first Iphone 6S+.... that ended up with $100 deductible insurance claim. Now I have an Otterbox and so does the wife (well an Ebay knock off that you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, don't tell her)

nyccarguy · December 2016

kyfdx said:

nyccarguy said:
I know it's the new normal, but I still have issues with the concept of a $60K 3 series (especially with a 4cylinder engine).
Yeah.. but 248 HP.

My "high performance" 6-cylinder model from ten years ago only has 235 HP.

To be honest, an AWD 4 cylinder 3-series with a slushbox is hard for me to beat off the line. I'm a little better, once we get north of 130 mph.

Yeah, I know. I understand. I even like the current crop of ubiquitous 2.0L 4cyl Turbo w/ 8 Speed automatics that are all the rage with every manufacturer nowadays. But for $60K I want more than 4 cylinders. I'll make an exception for a 718 Cayman with PDK.

tjc78 · December 2016

I'm wondering really what are my replacement SUV options for similar size?

The Enclave is probably the biggest thing out there other than an Expedition or Tahoe right?

I'm not a Highlander fan and the Explorer/Pilot are a little smaller. I guess we will have to try them out. It will also come down to how things lease out. I know that I'm not going up in payment and wouldn't mind a few bucks less.

qbrozen · December 2016

The Flex is bigger inside than the Explorer, I believe.

stickguy · December 2016

If an explorer or pilot isn't big enough, you need to start dragging around less crap.

Or get what you really need. A minivan. Most wonderful invention for when you have 2 younger kids!

28firefighter · December 2016

qbrozen said:
The Flex is bigger inside than the Explorer, I believe.

The Flex leases horribly, at least last time I checked.

graphicguy · December 2016

tjc78 said:
I didn't have a good case on my first Iphone 6S+.... that ended up with $100 deductible insurance claim. Now I have an Otterbox and so does the wife (well an Ebay knock off that you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, don't tell her)

The great thing about Apple products is their support. Case in point, when I had my iPhone 6, about 16 months after I bought it, along with the Apple case, I had dropped it. Not a big drop...maybe 6 inches. The bottom corner of the scrren cracked. Figuring I was going to have a repair bill, I took it to the local Apple store to get it fixed.

Told the nice sales person what happened. He said since it happened while using the Apple case (not even the nice leather one), they'd replace the phone....NO CHARGE. Gotta love that.

Try that at Best Buy on an Android phone.

Now, all I use is an Apple case. Got one on my 7+ right now. Not nearly as big as the Otter Box, but it does the job.

tjc78 · December 2016

stickguy said:
If an explorer or pilot isn't big enough, you need to start dragging around less crap.

Or get what you really need. A minivan. Most wonderful invention for when you have 2 younger kids!

That's the thing, we really don't carry much around and the back (and third row) are 90% of the time empty. My point is if I'm having to drive an SUV I want one with the capability we need when we need it. I haven't really compared the Pilot/Explorer so will do when it is time.

Minivan and Flex would never work for the wife. I tell her the Enclave is basically a minivan but she isn't buying it.

@graphicguy , wow that is great customer service.

suydam · December 2016

stickguy said:
If an explorer or pilot isn't big enough, you need to start dragging around less crap.

Or get what you really need. A minivan. Most wonderful invention for when you have 2 younger kids!

I'd second that. The new Chrysler Pacifica hybrid is supposed to be really nice. It isn't just the room for your own kids -- it's their friends and their stuff too.
We did the minivan years happily when our kids were young. Now with the empty nest we are returning to small cars again with even more happiness. Even midsize cars are too big for us!

stickguy · December 2016

I found the explorer to be a barge. Though I also found the Enclave series to be a barge!

and IIRC, the new Enclave downsized this year, so probably no bigger, or smaller than, the Explorer.

You can also look at the new Pathfinder. Those are quite large inside I think.

breld · December 2016

stickguy said:
I have to think the depreciation on that wagon is going to make your eyes bleed. As in, 2 years from now, on the lot at $29,995. or less.

Well yeah - I wouldn't buy one new. My new 4-series is a great example of not buying one of these new.

And something like the track handling package won't carry its value into the used market. Without the stick option any longer, I'm not sure there's the same following for such a wagon anymore. When we were selling the wife's 2010 328xi m-sport wagon with the stick, we had calls from all over the country and ended up selling to an individual in Boston.

tjc78 · December 2016

stickguy said:
I found the explorer to be a barge. Though I also found the Enclave series to be a barge!

and IIRC, the new Enclave downsized this year, so probably no bigger, or smaller than, the Explorer.

You can also look at the new Pathfinder. Those are quite large inside I think.

Pathfinder and Infiniti clone are pretty big too forgot about those.

Enclave stayed the same, the Acadia did get a little smaller. Not sure what the 2018 will be, Buick already has a smaller SUV with the Envision. At least I have a year to decide. Wife said as long as it isn't a Minivan she is pretty much fine (and it can't be white, lol)

Michaell · December 2016

Over on the E-series lease board, I had a question posed about a $70K E300.

I seriously cannot wrap my head around that.

I remember when C&D was complaining about the turbo 4's found in Saab for $35K as not being fit for a luxury brand.

28firefighter · December 2016

I still believe, in some ways, that Saab was way ahead of its time with the investment and commitment it made to 4-cylinder Turbo engines. Probably 15 years too soon, though.

nyccarguy · December 2016

My 2000 Saab 9-3 was a lot of fun to drive. 2.0L Turbo 4cyl. 185 hp/185 ft-lb of torque. Deceptively fast.

xwesx · December 2016

kyfdx said:
Yeah.. but 248 HP.

My "high performance" 6-cylinder model from ten years ago only has 235 HP.

To be honest, an AWD 4 cylinder 3-series with a slushbox is hard for me to beat off the line. I'm a little better, once we get north of 130 mph.

While on the topic of "yeah buts," you have to remember that, because this scenario happens several times every day, it is an *extremely* important consideration when purchasing a vehicle!

xwesx · December 2016

28firefighter said:

qbrozen said:
The Flex is bigger inside than the Explorer, I believe.
The Flex leases horribly, at least last time I checked.

The last model year was 2015 for Flex, so I think one would be hard-pressed to find a new one still available for lease!

I'm still considering one for my next ride, but this whole diesel thing has me making other considerations as well.

qbrozen · December 2016

Was wondering if they still made the Flex when I posted it.

28firefighter · December 2016

qbrozen said:
Was wondering if they still made the Flex when I posted it.

My BIL and SIL leased one last year - not a good lease deal at all because of low residuals, but they did it because it was 0% interest AND they got $8000 in lease cash. Total Cost to Own if they leased-to-buy was about $6000 cheaper than purchasing it new outright.

henryn · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
My 2000 Saab 9-3 was a lot of fun to drive. 2.0L Turbo 4cyl. 185 hp/185 ft-lb of torque. Deceptively fast.

My ex-wife had a 1985 Dodge, with the 2.2L turbo. For the life of me, I can't remember the model name, but it was the 4 door sedan. That thing was a real rocket ship. We had a lot of problems with it, and we were glad to see it gone after 3 years, but it was seriously fast.

stever · December 2016

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:
Yeah.. but 248 HP.

My "high performance" 6-cylinder model from ten years ago only has 235 HP.

To be honest, an AWD 4 cylinder 3-series with a slushbox is hard for me to beat off the line. I'm a little better, once we get north of 130 mph.
While on the topic of "yeah buts," you have to remember that, because this scenario happens several times every day, it is an *extremely* important consideration when purchasing a vehicle!

Nah, hp and torque are barely on my radar.

sda · December 2016

henryn said:

nyccarguy said:
My 2000 Saab 9-3 was a lot of fun to drive. 2.0L Turbo 4cyl. 185 hp/185 ft-lb of torque. Deceptively fast.
My ex-wife had a 1985 Dodge, with the 2.2L turbo. For the life of me, I can't remember the model name, but it was the 4 door sedan. That thing was a real rocket ship. We had a lot of problems with it, and we were glad to see it gone after 3 years, but it was seriously fast.

Was it the Lancer, a 5 door hatchback? There was also the ES sedans. A good friend had the Lancer in garnet red. He really liked it. It wasn't a Turbo however, I think it was the 2.5.

qbrozen · December 2016

28firefighter said:

qbrozen said:
Was wondering if they still made the Flex when I posted it.
My BIL and SIL leased one last year - not a good lease deal at all because of low residuals, but they did it because it was 0% interest AND they got $8000 in lease cash. Total Cost to Own if they leased-to-buy was about $6000 cheaper than purchasing it new outright.

Not too common to have low MF and big lease cash, so they probably made the right choice.

Back when we got the T&C, they had big lease cash, but you had to go through a 3rd-party bank and the MF was so crazy high that it ate up the lease cash and then some. So I went in thinking I would lease it and wound up financing. Gave up some up front cash on the lease but made up for it with the much lower finance rate.

sda · December 2016

The Pilot is really quite roomy and the current version is even roomier. It can seat 3 (in a squeeze) in the third row, for a total of 8 using all seating positions. With the third seat up, which is a 60/40 configuration, there is still decent room left in the cargo area. Still not as roomy as your Enclave.

stickguy · December 2016

This seems like a pretty good deal, for a budget family car, or a very useful 2nd car. Wonder if my wife would let me trade her RDX for a fancy MB sedan, then buy one like this for 2nd car? Of course, would have to let her drive the fun car, or would be hearing from a divorce attorney.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2008-toyota-sienna-5dr_7~passenger_van_xle_fwd-used-15732265.html

Or spend less, and get a spare car with some flash!

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2010-cadillac-cts_sedan-4dr_sedan_3_0l_luxury_rwd-used-15451374.html

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

Michaell said:
Over on the E-series lease board, I had a question posed about a $70K E300.

I seriously cannot wrap my head around that.

I remember when C&D was complaining about the turbo 4's found in Saab for $35K as not being fit for a luxury brand.

There's a $100K Volvo out there now, too.

Michaell · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

Michaell said:
Over on the E-series lease board, I had a question posed about a $70K E300.

I seriously cannot wrap my head around that.

I remember when C&D was complaining about the turbo 4's found in Saab for $35K as not being fit for a luxury brand.
There's a $100K Volvo out there now, too.

I think of that as a competitor for the Tesla Model X.

henryn · December 2016

sda said:

henryn said:

nyccarguy said:
My 2000 Saab 9-3 was a lot of fun to drive. 2.0L Turbo 4cyl. 185 hp/185 ft-lb of torque. Deceptively fast.
My ex-wife had a 1985 Dodge, with the 2.2L turbo. For the life of me, I can't remember the model name, but it was the 4 door sedan. That thing was a real rocket ship. We had a lot of problems with it, and we were glad to see it gone after 3 years, but it was seriously fast.
Was it the Lancer, a 5 door hatchback? There was also the ES sedans. A good friend had the Lancer in garnet red. He really liked it. It wasn't a Turbo however, I think it was the 2.5.

Lancer sounds right. It was definitely a sedan, and fairly roomy inside. Had the turbo, and a stickshift. It was a lot of fun to drive, when it wasn't in the shop.

jeffb0101 · December 2016

Ford still makes the Flex. When I looked at their site a minute ago, the first picture was the 2017 Flex.

stickguy · December 2016

so they do. Local dealers even have a few in stock. they must not sell. I hardly ever see one of them on the road.

stickguy · December 2016

Q, just curious. I know you been there, done that, but for the miles and $$ (both on the low side), would one of these work? At least you know they got great seats. And this is the newer 6 cyl model FWIW.

actually, this would be on my list too!

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2009-volvo-xc90-awd_4dr_i6_w_slash_sunroof_slash_3rd_row-used-15768830.html

stickguy · December 2016

I think now I have a new plan A going. After poking around finding these options, the best idea might be to get something in the $12K +/- range. Can still get new and nice enough to be enjoyable and reliable, but cheap enough to have either no or just a short finance commitment.

plus, can flip out of it after a reasonable time when we feel like something fancier.

makes a lot of sense, especially if I am still putting on barely any miles.

as always, all plans subject to change at a moments notice. I think we are up to about plan R at this point.

tjc78 · December 2016

What's the residual on the Sonata?

nyccarguy · December 2016

http://www.arnoldchevroletbuick.com/VehicleDetails/used-2012-Buick-Regal-GS-West_Babylon-NY/2873516273

2012 Regal GS
FWD
Black/Black
10K miles
6-Speed Stick
$19,995

stickguy · December 2016

tjc78 said:
What's the residual on the Sonata?

no clue actually. But more than I would pay for it. Not necessarily because it would be a bad deal (only because of the low miles) but by then, if I have to buy something anyway, why would I want to buy something I just had for 3 years?

My wife likes it though, and wouldn't mind. But she will live with something new.

my guess is the residual is around $18-19,000 at least, but would have to dig out the paperwork to know for sure.

stickguy · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
http://www.arnoldchevroletbuick.com/VehicleDetails/used-2012-Buick-Regal-GS-West_Babylon-NY/2873516273

2012 Regal GS
FWD
Black/Black
10K miles
6-Speed Stick
$19,995

interesting. miles and trans are good. Though it is FWD. and colors are bad. Plus not paying that much for a 2012 Buick.

a neighbor of mine actually has one of these with the stick. Not sure how it is holding up though. sounds kind of rattly when he starts off in 1st gear.

xwesx · December 2016

jeffb0101 said:
Ford still makes the Flex. When I looked at their site a minute ago, the first picture was the 2017 Flex.

Interesting! Two years ago, I read an announcement that they discontinued it, and last spring when I was looking at the 2015 model, they didn't have a 16 listed on their site. I wonder when they decided to reverse that decision? Perhaps they decided to float it a while longer since they had so much invested in the tooling. Their sales numbers pretty much flatlined at about 20,000 units a year, which is *nothing* for a Ford vehicle.

Ford's Lowest production vehicle

I'm thrilled to know that, actually. No need to rush to buy one at this point. I can still get an off-lease two-year-old unit years from now!

corvette · December 2016

stickguy said:
This seems like a pretty good deal, for a budget family car, or a very useful 2nd car. Wonder if my wife would let me trade her RDX for a fancy MB sedan, then buy one like this for 2nd car? Of course, would have to let her drive the fun car, or would be hearing from a divorce attorney.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2008-toyota-sienna-5dr_7~passenger_van_xle_fwd-used-15732265.html

It's pushing 10 years old.

XC90, white over beige is a good color combo (ask how I know!), but I really liked the spunkiness of the older 2.5T over the 2.9 I6 (I've never actually drive the 2.9 in the XC90, but my parents' S80 has it and it feels a little sluggish).

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