Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

kyfdx · December 2016

There are things I like about the earlier model. #1 is those stock alloys.

stickguy · December 2016

well, the Hyundai dealer I bought the Sonata at was great. one of the best experiences I ever had. nice place, friendly, no games. Treatment worthy of a luxury brand, and frankly, put the Acura dealer I bought the RDX at to shame (I refuse to ever step in that place again).

I also can put up with a lot. I am buying the car, not the dealers sales department. If they want to play games, as long as I end up winning, doesn't matter to me. Plus, generates fun stories for the thread!

suydam · December 2016

Me too. Service dept matters a lot. That said, there are some dealerships that so ruin the buying experience you never quite like the car as much after.

stickguy · December 2016

it is different though with a used car, of different make. If you buy an Infiniti at a Hyundai dealer, once the paperwork is done, you are never going back, so who cares how good the service department is?

suydam · December 2016

Very true. So far I've never done that. All used cars have been same make as the dealership -- and I've had a lot of them.

toomanyfumes · December 2016

We looked at a Santa fe Sport at the local Hyundai dealer, the young salesgirl was annoying, would not give us a firm price, just kept saying they had a sale going on with great prices. They were supposed to appraise our trade during the test drive, then they wanted us to sit down with her and the sales manager while they looked at it. At that point we walked.

corvette · December 2016

Any predictions for the number of punches we will hit in 2017?

nyccarguy · December 2016

What are we at this year? How many did we do last year?

28firefighter · December 2016

I feel like we are at 35 for this year? We hit 33 around November at which point @breld traded in the SQ5 and @qbrozen has his punch pending for the EX.

breld · December 2016

stickguy said:
well, the Hyundai dealer I bought the Sonata at was great. one of the best experiences I ever had. nice place, friendly, no games. Treatment worthy of a luxury brand, and frankly, put the Acura dealer I bought the RDX at to shame (I refuse to ever step in that place again).

I also can put up with a lot. I am buying the car, not the dealers sales department. If they want to play games, as long as I end up winning, doesn't matter to me. Plus, generates fun stories for the thread!

Agree with that. When I bought the Veloster, I'd characterize the Hyundai dealership I shopped at as "old school," with the salesman coming off as a little sleazy. But, for all their claims of being the highest volume dealer and being able to beat all other dealers, blah, blah, blah...they actually followed through with an amazing offer on the car and trade, and did it pretty quickly.

There are times when I actually like these dealers, where they seem a bit desperate in pursuing you - sometimes it's more of an act with no substance behind it, but sometimes they really do come through with deep discounts to get your business.

On the flip side, there are some really nice upscale dealerships, where it's a pleasant place to shop, but they almost act like they're doing you a favor by selling you a car.

breld · December 2016

28firefighter said:
I feel like we are at 35 for this year? We hit 33 around November at which point @breld traded in the SQ5 and @qbrozen has his punch pending for the EX.

I'm just gonna put it out there that I may really go crazy and get another punch in this year.

The wife is pretty enamored with the comfort and features of the 4-series that we talked seriously about upgrading her very basic 2012 MINI with a new MINI.

We actually were pretty close on numbers on a new Clubman on Saturday when she pulled back and said she wasn't sure if she was ready to trade out of her current ride. Gotta give her credit for having that restraint, but we'll see if it lasts.

andres3 · December 2016

jpp5862 said:

nyccarguy said:
Interesting point about the 9-Speed Slushbox in the V6 TLX. I love reading the comments on FB whenever a car manufacturer posts something. They range from: "my car spontaneously combusted for the 3rd time this week and the neither the dealer nor ___NA is doing anything about it. Stay away from this death trap." to "I'm on my 5th ____ and love it so much. I'll never drive another brand again." Obviously these need to be taken with a grain of salt. I read one about the 2017 Acura MDX that stood out. I leased a 2014 MDX Tech & Loved it for 3 years. I've had a 2017 for 3 months and wish I could have the 2014 back. The 2014 MDX was introduced as the current body style with the tried & true 6-Speed Automatic as opposed to the 9-Speed unit that has been causing some controversy.
My friend with the TLX V6 w/ Advanced Package just traded it in on a new Tacoma. They never could sort out the transmission and the last time I drove it a couple of months ago the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts were harsher than ever.

He took a bath on the trade, I think they ended up giving him $27k for it and it had just over 14k miles on it. He loved the car when he got it but now was glad to be rid of it. The TLX is a great car in a lot of ways and a good value for the money but that transmission is just pathetic in any car, much less a semi-lux brand with a solid reputation.

Did he say if he noticed anything wrong during a test drive? I would think you'd notice something like a bad transmission in a test drive. Of course, I hear some people don't bother to do one.

breld · December 2016

I'd agree with you for the most part, but I could see some transmission behaviors not exhibiting themselves during a test drive, depending on the route. Some of that sometimes comes through during more experience with the car on varying routes.

Really is a shame for what is overall a nice package from Acura. I did take a good test drive of the 4 cylinder model and didn't notice anything peculiar about that transmission.

nyccarguy · December 2016

@breld

A few years ago, a guy was sitting behind me at a Yankees game who was the finance manager at a high volume Toyota dealer in Massachusetts. He said that if you do your homework and are willing to weed through all the high pressure stuff that comes with shopping at a high volume dealership which typically deals with people that have lower than average credit scores, that you can do very well there. I guess it all depends. If you get a dynamite price on the car you want and an equally excellent deal on your trade, then shopping at a less than upscale dealer might be worth it.

The thing I can't stand in recent years is the pickup process. My Subaru was pretty good. We were in and out of there rather quickly. When I leased my 3 series, we were at the dealership for HOURS waiting for F&I.

graphicguy · December 2016

Q...way to go. I've always liked the EX3x Infinitis. Hope things work out smoothly.

I hate the games, too. But, sounds like you handled it well.

Personally, that's why I make the offers with everything included....taxes, tags, everything. That way, there's no room for "fudging" the number on their end with the claim..."oh, that didn't include doc fees, or this fee, or that fee". Doesn't matter. My offer is "all in".

suydam · December 2016

Little more complicated when it's a lease. This game is new to me.

stickguy · December 2016

Bradd, one of the experts here said (and I paraphrase, if not make this up entirely, but I think it was Mike) that different dealers were better for specific buyer types. If you need credit or finance go to a ritzy dealer. Flat out cheapest price, a lower income area dealer. Seemed counterintuitive at first but did make sense.

breld · December 2016

I've only leased twice, but as long as you can get to the target pricing and other related factors (like from the forums here) and come up with the appropriate monthly payment, I kinda think it makes it easier where your offer is simply a monthly payment (and preferable no money down).

stickguy · December 2016

graphicguy said:
Q...way to go. I've always liked the EX3x Infinitis. Hope things work out smoothly.

I hate the games, too. But, sounds like you handled it well.

Personally, that's why I make the offers with everything included....taxes, tags, everything. That way, there's no room for "fudging" the number on their end with the claim..."oh, that didn't include doc fees, or this fee, or that fee". Doesn't matter. My offer is "all in".

Well, the key is remembering you have feet. And be willing to use them right up until the end.

It also made me enjoy leasing. So easy to shop around. Only 2 numbers in play. I would write a check for $1,000. Then owe 35 payments of X. Just one variable, and I did not care how they got there. Terms always the same of course (36/36000).

28firefighter · December 2016

Quick update on the GTI:
I have not had any issues with the car in the last week or so. I started to notice some patterns and consistency associated with my performance issues related to the priming of the fuel pump that takes place when I open my car door, but before I start the car.

What I have found is that if I allow the priming process to run until it completes (about 3 seconds after opening the door), the car performs normally. If I immediately start the car and interrupt the process, my fuel economy tanks and it feels like the car is bogged down. I find this confusing, because if the fuel pressure wasn't high enough the car would not start OR it would be throwing codes to accompany the poor performance. Instead, it appears to be in this weird limbo.

Interestingly, I do not have KESSY - so I control when I start the car. My friend with a 2015 GTI with KESSY said that he experiences a slight delay (1-2 seconds) after pushing the Start-Stop button before the car kicks over and he has none of these issues.

So the question is...normal behavior that I just work around or is this a problem?

andres3 · December 2016

stever said:
The Encore has better mpg than the Soul but no ventilated seats. My wife likes Buicks, I like the Soul because it's a bit boxier. We both like the huge sunroof in the Soul better than the "ordinary" sized moonroof in the Encore. The Soul finally gets blind spot monitoring. The Encore has a better ride.

And that, in a nutshell, is why we're getting the Civic Hatch.

Actually, if the Soul wasn't in the running, I'd likely push for the Tucson harder. It's pretty slick and the local Hyundai dealer is better than either the Kia or the Buick dealer. Well, the Kia dealer just changed hands so time will tell on that one.

I think we'd be pretty happy with any of these, or a Prius or a VW wagon or an Elantra GT. Pretty hard to go wrong too badly any more. Can't go Lexus/Audi/MINI etc. because we don't want to have to drive an hour for warranty service.

Well, with Lexus and Audi you virtually never need warranty service, but you will need to drive a long way to get that free first oil change! You can handle any recalls at the oil change; those do happen, even to the mighty.

andres3 · December 2016

stickguy said:

graphicguy said:
Q...way to go. I've always liked the EX3x Infinitis. Hope things work out smoothly.

I hate the games, too. But, sounds like you handled it well.

Personally, that's why I make the offers with everything included....taxes, tags, everything. That way, there's no room for "fudging" the number on their end with the claim..."oh, that didn't include doc fees, or this fee, or that fee". Doesn't matter. My offer is "all in".
Well, the key is remembering you have feet. And be willing to use them right up until the end.

It also made me enjoy leasing. So easy to shop around. Only 2 numbers in play. I would write a check for $1,000. Then owe 35 payments of X. Just one variable, and I did not care how they got there. Terms always the same of course (36/36000).

If you buy cars in cash then there's only one number in play to negotiate and shop around. Leases also have other fees in play, the over-mileage fee, the "I'm not leasing again from you" fee, and of course the "I don't know how strict you'll be on scratches and dents" return fee.

stever · December 2016

andres3 said:

stever said:
The Encore has better mpg than the Soul but no ventilated seats. My wife likes Buicks, I like the Soul because it's a bit boxier. We both like the huge sunroof in the Soul better than the "ordinary" sized moonroof in the Encore. The Soul finally gets blind spot monitoring. The Encore has a better ride.

And that, in a nutshell, is why we're getting the Civic Hatch.

Actually, if the Soul wasn't in the running, I'd likely push for the Tucson harder. It's pretty slick and the local Hyundai dealer is better than either the Kia or the Buick dealer. Well, the Kia dealer just changed hands so time will tell on that one.

I think we'd be pretty happy with any of these, or a Prius or a VW wagon or an Elantra GT. Pretty hard to go wrong too badly any more. Can't go Lexus/Audi/MINI etc. because we don't want to have to drive an hour for warranty service.
Well, with Lexus and Audi you virtually never need warranty service, but you will need to drive a long way to get that free first oil change! You can handle any recalls at the oil change; those do happen, even to the mighty.

In the UP, getting to the shop was easy and I let them do the oil and I'd walk or bike home or over to the thrift shop or cafe. Here, it's a 15 minute drive down the hill anywhere and I went back to changing my own oil. I really don't like taking an hour out of my day hanging out for an oil change if I can avoid it.

andres3 · December 2016

stickguy said:
man, with the retail value on that, hard to imagine that the repair + $900 rental car isn't above totaling value. But, never know with an insurance company.

Even with a total, I know I was given no resistance for about a week or two long rental while you find a suitable replacement. I wonder if you'd start getting static if you took a month, or more? A month would probably be a reasonable time frame to replace a car; although some luxury models really have to be ordered to spec in order to be equipped and priced correctly (3-month wait).

I'm not talking about people that buy their own "rental" insurance where you have stated amounts. I'm talking about people like me that assume that the need for a rental car will be 100% someone else's fault and therefore will be covered by their insurance.

andres3 · December 2016

stevedebi said:

nyccarguy said:
Hey @stevedebi! Congrats on the punch & welcome to the Subaru owner's club here on CCBA (me, @Michaell, & @tyguy). If you have any questions about the car, ask away. I've got 2 + years & over 41K miles under my Legacy belt. What model did you get? What motor?
Outback Premium, with the EyeSight package. Great deal and 1.9 APR. We got the 2.5L engine. The dealer didn't even have the larger engine - but it is going to be driven a lot and we would have opted for the 2.5 anyway. We got cloth seats rather than leather.

I had not driven a Subaru since around 2003, and was pleased at how much they have refined the engine. It is much smoother.

I did hesitate because of service, but there is a closer dealer here in town. The folks I bought from are my favorite dealer (Galpin), and we drove 15 miles to see their larger selection.

We went to the LA Auto show and drove a number of cars. It came down to the Honda HRV (no lumbar support), the Subaru, and a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid (had a bad experience with Toyota and won't give them our business - but she considered it for a while).

Got into a Twitter argument and rant with someone from Michigan that called me a treasonous financial and economic traitor to my country for making the Germans and Koreans rich with my last two automobile acquisitions.

According to him (acknowledging that CR is legit which I'll give him credit for), things have changed for the better, so there is no reason to buy foreign anymore as his Edge has twin turbos and is fun and fast. He also said selective experience (anecdotal) should count (vs CR's large sample sizes). Therefore he mentioned all of the Ford's he's bought since 2000 have needed nothing but oil changes.

I countered that my Cousin was left holding the bag on a Ford with a bum engine that hadn't yet reached 40,000 miles. He countered that there is a thing called warranty, so I had to admit it was a long time ago when the power-train warranty was only 36K miles, but a true story nonetheless that has soured my perception on Ford.

I guess my personal experience with Chrysler being from the previous Century doesn't count, or I should change my ways since things have changed at the Big 3.

As you know, I'm not convinced all that much has changed, although I do admit things have improved at the Big 3. But in the end, it all comes down to me vs. the Country for him. I should put Country before my selfish personal interests. Unfortunately for the Big 3, I put my self-interest above propping up what I perceive will end up costing me more money in the long run.

My favorite argument is that I've already contributed enough to the tow-truck, auto repair shop/mechanic, and Mopar economy for one lifetime. I really feel I've already paid my fair share to those industries with replacement parts, service visits, and hook up trips for one lifetime with just one model. In essence, I've already done my duty and served my time.

qbrozen · December 2016

You mean the Germans who employ thousands of US citizens to build and sell their vehicles vs the 'Merican companies who build their vehicles in Mexico and Canada? Yeah, I don't understand those arguments these days.

suydam · December 2016

Actually pretty good arguments to be made that most Toyotas and Hondas are built here while a lot of GM and Ford are in large part foreign made and assembled. So the old foreign vs. domestic is so last century too. Buy what you like.

andres3 · December 2016

qbrozen said:
You mean the Germans who employ thousands of US citizens to build and sell their vehicles vs the 'Merican companies who build their vehicles in Mexico and Canada? Yeah, I don't understand those arguments these days.

That's how the whole thing started; other than some argument over the pros and cons of the auto bailouts.. I mentioned my Kia was built in the US, along with many other foreign brands and models currently available, and Mr. Pro-Bailouts replied "Do you realize buying foreign brands de-optimizes US economic value?" Then proceeded on his rant described above.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

You cannot "buy American" in a new car these days. It's just not that simple anymore. Brave New World.

For what it is worth, the plural of anecdote is "anecdotes". The plural is not "evidence".

roadburner · December 2016

I buy what I want and to H*ll with what anyone else thinks. I used to refuse to consider a UAW assembled car, but I've backed off that position.I think it's hysterical that I'd be lauded as a patriot for buying a Focus RS(built in Germany) yet get criticized for owning an X3 built in SC...

nyccarguy · December 2016

I own 3 "Japanese" cars. My Prelude was assembled in Japan. My Pilot & my Legacy were built right here in the good ol US of A.

Michaell · December 2016

nyccarguy said:
I own 3 "Japanese" cars. My Prelude was assembled in Japan. My Pilot & my Legacy were built right here in the good ol US of A.

One of my three produced in the good 'ol US of A

MINI was screwed together in England
Jetta in Mexico
Outback in Indiana

suydam · December 2016

And my "American" Buick Encore was made in South Korea. While my previous Honda was built in Ohio. These arguments are so dumb.

qbrozen · December 2016

She is home for real now. I can't say they PURPOSELY tried to play games in the end, but I did have to get the contract redone twice. In the end, I actually walked away with $150 more in my pocket because the finance person was of the opinion that the DMV fees are part of the doc fee. Who am I to argue and explain that can't be possible when the doc fee is preprinted on the contract and DMV fees would vary for new vs used vs tag transfer?

So I guess my official punch is today, 12/5. #42 in my history.

rayainsw · December 2016

Congrats - and ENJOY !

fintail · December 2016

There's your first mistake - Twitter is for twits. A certain someone who can't keep away from it at night is a perfect example. It brings out the worst in people.

I've bought solely German cars since I was 18, and all new cars have been from the same place (same factory even). No feelings of treachery. In fact, the costs paid to service and maintain German cars probably puts more into the local economy than many other activities

andres3 said:

Got into a Twitter argument and rant with someone from Michigan that called me a treasonous financial and economic traitor to my country for making the Germans and Koreans rich with my last two automobile acquisitions.

kyfdx · December 2016

Wait..where was that assembled?

stickguy · December 2016

Nice looking. Enjoy it. One thing for sure. Fuel costs going way up!

graphicguy · December 2016

qbrozen said:

She is home for real now. I can't say they PURPOSELY tried to play games in the end, but I did have to get the contract redone twice. In the end, I actually walked away with $150 more in my pocket because the finance person was of the opinion that the DMV fees are part of the doc fee. Who am I to argue and explain that can't be possible when the doc fee is preprinted on the contract and DMV fees would vary for new vs used vs tag transfer?

So I guess my official punch is today, 12/5. #42 in my history.

Q....Great...way to go! I like it. Congrats!

qbrozen · December 2016

stickguy said:
Nice looking. Enjoy it. One thing for sure. Fuel costs going way up!

Not compared to my Caddy. :b

stickguy · December 2016

Also need to move the ladder. Has big dent written all over it!

qbrozen · December 2016

nah. Been there for 14 mos with no problem. The garage definitely needs a cleaning, though!

henryn · December 2016

Congrats on the punch, and many happy miles of motoring!

nyccarguy · December 2016

Congrats @qbrozen!

roadburner · December 2016

Yes, Congrats!

roadburner · December 2016

Only two of my BMWs were built in the same plant; the 2er and i3 both came from Leipzig. The ti was built in Munich, the X3 hails from the Magna Steyr plant in Graz, Austria, and the 328i is a native of Rosslyn, South Africa.

Michaell · December 2016

Congrats on the new EX, @qbrozen ! Enjoy - I know you're quite anxious to get the Jetta sold back to VW.

andres3 · December 2016

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
I own 3 "Japanese" cars. My Prelude was assembled in Japan. My Pilot & my Legacy were built right here in the good ol US of A.
One of my three produced in the good 'ol US of A

MINI was screwed together in England
Jetta in Mexico
Outback in Indiana

That Outback is made in the Carrier plant?

Not getting political, just wondering if they are in proximity.

Michaell · December 2016

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:
I own 3 "Japanese" cars. My Prelude was assembled in Japan. My Pilot & my Legacy were built right here in the good ol US of A.
One of my three produced in the good 'ol US of A

MINI was screwed together in England
Jetta in Mexico
Outback in Indiana
That Outback is made in the Carrier plant? Not getting political, just wondering if they are in proximity.

No idea how close the plants are to one another. Subaru plant is in Lafayette.

cdnpinhead · December 2016

Indiana used to make lots and lots of car stuff. I've stayed in Anderson for several days at a time on dozens of occasions, and the locals have pointed out various empty fields around town and told me which GM or other prime that used to have a plant there. I'm guessing the same is true all over the state.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles