The manufactures are not going to spend more to produce a car than they have to. So why would many companies now install syn oil instead of dino? They would have to see or know of some bennefit from syn to warrent the extra cost. They are not going to spend extra money just for a feel good. Does using syn mean the engine will be invincible, absolutly not. According to a GM spokesman, if you are a travelling saleman or a long commuter, you could use normal maintenance intervals and dino would work fine for you for years. But, anybody else, would be severe and the said syn would be a better choice.
I agree that the manufactures don't want to spend the cost to add syn. In addition though, I feel they see the benefit of using syn, but the benefit is nor for them. They are comfortable making an engine which will last through the warranty and somewhat beyond. You can bet your bottom dollar they do not want engines lasting too long. This could cut into the new car market and undermine some dealer service profits.
Sorry, but like armtdm I don't feel the manufacture's have my best interests at heart.
Yes, it is funny how things change when the shoe is on the other foot.
MB E320, JAG XJ6, to name a few (there are many more) have oil change intervals of 15,000 miles. In the MB E320's case, the gig provides for oil changes included as part of the warranty. When the new vehicle was brought in for oil and filter service,
(you know the 1-5k engine break in routine)
they EMPHATICALLY recommended oil change at 15k !!!!
Of course they would do the oil change at 1-5k if the "CUSTOMER" wanted to foot the bill. (as if they are not already due to the higher vehicle cost)
MB drain interval is NOT 15k miles. It is base on when the computer tells you to bring it in. Normally between 10k to 12k. Of course plus or minus depending on how you drive. That is why the computer is called FSS <-- Flexible Schedule Service.
Also a Benz engine is built a lot better than some 20 year old sedan. Just because a new car uses extended oil changes that doesn't mean you should necessarily on your older car. Hell, I'd BURN more oil than I could change, in 15K miles.
Thanks for the replies. No, changed oil & filter every 3k, just every 3rd change, used the $10 fram with ptfe resins. Its supposed to also be a better filter, but I guess that all Fram filters suck from what everyone is saying. My question still remains, is there an issue with mixing the synth with these Teflon filters? I checked and I still have one of these Fram filters left. I hate throwing away the $10 filter, so I will probably use it, especially if I still will be changing every 4 or 5 thousand at first...
For your info Teflon is a suspended solid. Your filter is designed to remove suspended solids from you engine. There hasnt been any scientific studies to prove that Teflon works to protect any better than dino. Here is a paragraph form an interesting website that I found.
Though they have gained rather wide acceptance among the motoring public, oil additives containing PTFE have also garnered their share of critics among experts in the field of lubrication. By far the most damning testimonial against these products originally came from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the patents and trademarks for Teflon. In a statement issued about ten years ago, DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said, "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines."
All you are doing with teflon is clogging your filter. Full synthetic (MOBIL) will offer surpassing protection for your engine than teflon. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info. I guess Fram was just trying to sell more. The additive comes in the filter. Maybe I'll just try and return it to the parts store for some Mobil One filters.
Perhaps this can not be said enough but both the conventional and synthetic oils have excellent technologic support. The result is that both are EXCELLENT oils.
I would stay away from PTFE resins in the oil (aka teflon)
This has always been a moot point with me because it has never been in stock till now, but is wal-mart full synthetic oil any good. It does have all the right seals, and the way I figure it can't be any worse than Castrol.
Does anybody have any opinion of, experience with, or data concerning this oil.
The price is right at $3 per qt. Unfortunately only available in 10-30 - I usually use 5-30.
it's technically inferiou ro syn and hence "dinasaur" or "dino" for short. Probably others use it because it was formed during the age of dinasaurs. Now, dinasaurs only lasted a couple of million years, so this crude formed well before and after dinasaurs. Now, knowing you Mr. Shiftright, I know you have some type of motive in mind for asking this question?? (which I'm sure you knew the answer for already).
oh, gee, I'm sorry I brought up the subject if it's going to make you guys start throwing insults at each other. You KNOW that Town Hall expects gentlemanly conduct of each and every one of you, so I'll just delete the (hopefully) hasty comments and we'll forget it.
Yes, I was hinting at the idea that adc brought up, that in fact petroleum was not made at all from dinosaurs, but from plant matter......I wasn't sure if you were referring to some Sinclair product when you used the term "dino" oil. Not nearly enough dinosaurs to do the job.
There you go...mostly simple little organisms......I suppose an occasional dinosaur could be trapped in there somewhere, but I think on the label for the oil can "dinosaur" would be way way down there on the list of ingredients.
After all french frys aren't french. French dressing isn't french, English muffins aren't english, swiss cheese isn't swiss, hamburgers don't contain ham....
But, ok.. Dinoless oil it is, from now on..
Hey how about nonsynthetic oil? That's accurate and discriptive.
It appears that a new car (mine) has successfully been broken in on syn oil (Mobil 1 5W-30). After 2200 miles the engine oil is so clear it's difficult to read the level (yes there is oil there). Oil consumption zero. Another myth shattered.
Comments, Nay-sayers??
BTW, it's not a Corvette, Viper, Porshe, AMG. These high performance cars have been broken in for years on syn. Al
I have been doing that on several cars, different product. even at 7,500 miles my oil is celar enough when cold to see through and when hot, looks like new oil.
Which oil product is best for my new Jetta GLS 2.0L Auto? I want to start on the right path to maintaining this car right. My last car, a Camry, started smoking and burning oil at 46K miles. So, this time I want no problems. The manual states an oil change at 5k - then 10k and then 20k. Can this be right? 10k between oil changes? I am confused. Help please.
a Camry smoking and burning oil at 46,000 would be suffering from owner neglect. You would be the better judge of that than me. I can tell you of a case where an idividual starts up his car revs it up to 3 or 4 thousand rpm's a couple times and is down the road at full tilt. His car smoked after a couple years. Any car would. Assuming you are not an abuser; if you use syn oil (Mobil 1/Amsoil IMHO) and follow the recommended oil schedule the car may last longer than you want it too. The 10,000 mile interval doesn't sound right. There are always two schedules one for "severe" or whatever conditions and the other for easy conditions. Anyway with syn oil you can go the maximum with a healthy reserve.
flaca, it definitely sounds like the oil was not changed frequently enough in your Camry. No one here on this forum can be certain of that but blowing smoke is a classic sign of infrequent oil change neglect.
If you want your new Jetta to last longer than that, use either Mobil 1 Synthetic or Valvoline Synpower synthetic and change the oil & filter (use VW brand filters) once every 5-6,000 miles. If you'd rather stick to conventional oil, don't go over 4,000 miles between oil & filter changes.
adc100, you seem to have gotten away with using synthetic oil right off the bat. Still, any adverse effects probably wouldn't show up for another couple dozen thousand miles. What kind of car is it and are you going to report back to us in another year or two with a progress report on your oil consumption?
For the record, I didn't say it was MANDATORY that you have to wait 5-10,000 miles before using synthetic in a brand new car, just good to do to be on the safe side.
I just bought some Redline 10W30 oil and they say right on the label not to use their oil for the first 3,000 miles. I have to think there's a good reason when they tell you NOT to use their product under certain circumstances. >;^}
I'll definitely keep you posted. It's a Nissan Sentra with a 2.0 L (145 HP) Engine. I was very careful during the break in period. Kept the RPMs low, changed speeds a lot. Not that I've seen everything, but from my experience, vehicles that initially use no oil are good to go for the duration. I have never had a vehicle increase oil consumption as it older. Wait a minute there was one- a Pinto (spelled loser). I usully keep them for 100,000 mi. Interesting- I had a 1980 Nissan 210. That engine was the best I ever had. I'm thinking I'm batting 2 for 2 on Nissans.
I've seen numerous references to valve guide seals going on Camrys. This oil burning may be unrelated to lack of maintenance. I don't think 5k oil changes, with conventional oil are a good thing.
After 500 miles on my 2001 4.7 V8 Dakota . . . I put in mobile 1 syn. My gosh the engine is so quite and the accel. is even better. I also find no reason to wait until the 3000 mark to put syn. in . . . sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.
I couldn't see waiting for 50 miles. I changed at 32 miles. I probablyt pushed the envelope, but there are no official recommendations against it. Not even by legal conscious Mobil. Be prepared for others to tell you it's in your head. I believe the quietness part of it. But the increased power is probably wishful thinking.
The following is information which Mobil puts out in their propaganda package for Mobil 1 oil:
"You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time. In fact Mobil 1 is the factory fill for the Corvette LT-1 and LT-5 engines. One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As the decision by the engineers who design the Corvette engine indicates, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the show room floor."
RedLine bottle: Allow 3 thousand miles for break in purposes before using.
The Royal Purple site:
"Can I put Royal Purple into my brand new car?
We recommend switching to Royal Purple after the manufacturer’s first scheduled oil change. This allows the engine time to break-in (seat the piston ring to the cylinder wall). The exception to this is the diesel pickup (Ford, Dodge, Chevy, GMC). These use a very hard piston ring under high compression and it takes longer for the rings to seat. In these applications we recommend switching to Royal Purple after 5000 – 10000 miles (depending upon engine loading)."
If you are using Royal Purple (can't imagine why) or Redling (good stuff) You should go by their recommendations. I'd be willing to bet that Mobil knows what they are doing with their product. They can't afford Law suits. Good info though.
adc100, I can't see how it will ever come to lawsuits if you have a car that is using just a little more oil than it should ... say using half a quart between oil changes instead of none at all.
Like I said before, it may not be considered mandatory, but I still think it's a good idea to stay dino for the first couple of oil changes to be sure the rings seat perfectly. And I'll repeat that we don't know if any of the manufactuers add something else to the crankcases of the cars that come from the factory with Mobil 1.
Hey, did you ever call their 800 number to find out the difference between "Mobil 1 5W30" and "Mobil 1 5W30 GM" that is listed in the MSDS sheet section of their website?
Adc100, I WAS going to answer you in the 'Sludge" thread but since armtdm complained, I moved it here.
MOST synthetics don't have to use any of the gooey, sludgey, VI improver in their oils where the spread between the winter and summer numbers is not so great. 10W30 is a great example. spreads like 0W30, 10W40, 5W50 tend to have viscosity improvers, regardless of the brand/type. 5W30 is a tricky one, some have VI improver, some don't. You can tell on Valvoline's site: www.ashland.com (the MSDS sheets) which of their's does and doesn't.
Yeah, I used Valvoline Synpower and Mobil 1 back-to-back in my car and I can't tell the difference between the two. Valvoline is 100% PAO. Mobil 1 USED TO BE 100% PAO but they have added some synthetic esthers and 1 other synthetic compound. So, I think these two are pretty close.
Redline, being polyolester-based is altogether different ... and supposedly better. I can't wait to try it but I bought it way ahead of time.
is that the Esters are used to because they are soluble with the PAO and the Additive Package. Its been that way since at least 1991 as far as I know. I read the info on the Redline site. I didn't have a lot of time to pick it apart. It was pretty impressive though. I had to travel to N.C. today and that's where I am now. There is a place in Winston-Salem that distributes the stuff. I'm going to call tomorrow. Did youget the 10W30 or 40? How much was it?
Called Mobil1 yesterday about the GM after the Mobil 1. The guy said there is no difference between the two. Gotta go.
I think Walmart's is Quaker State , Advance Auto - Valvolene, Pep Boy's - Valvolene. All these seem to be available for around $ .00/qt for 10w30 so far I haven't seen any of these store brand full synthetic oils in 5w20 or 5w30 etc. I guess the mfg's want to keep them for their own brands . As I wonder about whether the quality of private label store brand is = to name brand (ie is private label "b"sgrade vs "a" grade for name brand ?) , I probably spend a few more $ for Mobil 1 if I can find any specific quality info on a store brand. BTW what is the lowest price seen for Mobil 1 ( & where)- Thanks
Price for Mobil 1 that I have seen. I paid, $4.17 last time. Usually once a month theysell it for $3.87 I think. I would rather pay the extra buck to know what I am getting.
Comments
According to a GM spokesman, if you are a travelling saleman or a long commuter, you could use normal maintenance intervals and dino would work fine for you for years. But, anybody else, would be severe and the said syn would be a better choice.
Sorry, but like armtdm I don't feel the manufacture's have my best interests at heart.
Al
Yes, it is funny how things change when the shoe is on the other foot.
MB E320, JAG XJ6, to name a few (there are many more) have oil change intervals of 15,000 miles. In the MB E320's case, the gig provides for oil changes included as part of the warranty. When the new vehicle was brought in for oil and filter service,
(you know the 1-5k engine break in routine)
they EMPHATICALLY recommended oil change at 15k !!!!
Of course they would do the oil change at 1-5k if the "CUSTOMER" wanted to foot the bill. (as if they are not already due to the higher vehicle cost)
Like I said I KNOW that but FLEXIBLE he wasn't as stated in the post
Though they have gained rather wide acceptance among the motoring public, oil additives containing PTFE have also garnered their share of critics among experts in the field of lubrication. By far the most damning testimonial against these products originally came from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the patents and trademarks for Teflon.
In a statement issued about ten years ago, DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said, "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines."
All you are doing with teflon is clogging your filter. Full synthetic (MOBIL) will offer surpassing protection for your engine than teflon. Hope this helps.
I would stay away from PTFE resins in the oil (aka teflon)
Does anybody have any opinion of, experience with, or data concerning this oil.
The price is right at $3 per qt. Unfortunately only available in 10-30 - I usually use 5-30.
Now, knowing you Mr. Shiftright, I know you have some type of motive in mind for asking this question?? (which I'm sure you knew the answer for already).
TB
Yes, I was hinting at the idea that adc brought up, that in fact petroleum was not made at all from dinosaurs, but from plant matter......I wasn't sure if you were referring to some Sinclair product when you used the term "dino" oil. Not nearly enough dinosaurs to do the job.
Mr. Shiftright
Host
TB
--- Bror Jace
>:^)
One-celled marine organisms-oil?
After all french frys aren't french. French dressing isn't french, English muffins aren't english, swiss cheese isn't swiss, hamburgers don't contain ham....
But, ok.. Dinoless oil it is, from now on..
Hey how about nonsynthetic oil? That's accurate and discriptive.
Am I being helpful here?
>;^)
How about:
"Goo From The Ground"
"Subterranean Sludge"
?
Comments, Nay-sayers??
BTW, it's not a Corvette, Viper, Porshe, AMG. These high performance cars have been broken in for years on syn.
Al
If you want your new Jetta to last longer than that, use either Mobil 1 Synthetic or Valvoline Synpower synthetic and change the oil & filter (use VW brand filters) once every 5-6,000 miles. If you'd rather stick to conventional oil, don't go over 4,000 miles between oil & filter changes.
adc100, you seem to have gotten away with using synthetic oil right off the bat. Still, any adverse effects probably wouldn't show up for another couple dozen thousand miles. What kind of car is it and are you going to report back to us in another year or two with a progress report on your oil consumption?
For the record, I didn't say it was MANDATORY that you have to wait 5-10,000 miles before using synthetic in a brand new car, just good to do to be on the safe side.
I just bought some Redline 10W30 oil and they say right on the label not to use their oil for the first 3,000 miles. I have to think there's a good reason when they tell you NOT to use their product under certain circumstances. >;^}
--- Bror Jace
Interesting- I had a 1980 Nissan 210. That engine was the best I ever had. I'm thinking I'm batting 2 for 2 on Nissans.
Al
Withg synthetic easily go 5,000, even the Camry
Haven't used them myself, but a friend who has a couple of OTR trucks thinks they are good.
"You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time. In fact Mobil 1 is the factory fill for the Corvette LT-1 and LT-5 engines. One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As the decision by the engineers who design the Corvette engine indicates, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the show room floor."
Comments???
Allow 3 thousand miles for break in purposes before using.
The Royal Purple site:
"Can I put Royal Purple into my brand new car?
We recommend switching to Royal Purple after the manufacturer’s first
scheduled oil change. This allows the engine time to break-in (seat the
piston ring to the cylinder wall). The exception to this is the diesel pickup
(Ford, Dodge, Chevy, GMC). These use a very hard piston ring under high
compression and it takes longer for the rings to seat. In these applications
we recommend switching to Royal Purple after 5000 – 10000 miles
(depending upon engine loading)."
Like I said before, it may not be considered mandatory, but I still think it's a good idea to stay dino for the first couple of oil changes to be sure the rings seat perfectly. And I'll repeat that we don't know if any of the manufactuers add something else to the crankcases of the cars that come from the factory with Mobil 1.
Hey, did you ever call their 800 number to find out the difference between "Mobil 1 5W30" and "Mobil 1 5W30 GM" that is listed in the MSDS sheet section of their website?
--- Bror Jace
MOST synthetics don't have to use any of the gooey, sludgey, VI improver in their oils where the spread between the winter and summer numbers is not so great. 10W30 is a great example. spreads like 0W30, 10W40, 5W50 tend to have viscosity improvers, regardless of the brand/type. 5W30 is a tricky one, some have VI improver, some don't. You can tell on Valvoline's site: www.ashland.com (the MSDS sheets) which of their's does and doesn't.
Yeah, I used Valvoline Synpower and Mobil 1 back-to-back in my car and I can't tell the difference between the two. Valvoline is 100% PAO. Mobil 1 USED TO BE 100% PAO but they have added some synthetic esthers and 1 other synthetic compound. So, I think these two are pretty close.
Redline, being polyolester-based is altogether different ... and supposedly better. I can't wait to try it but I bought it way ahead of time.
--- Bror Jace
Called Mobil1 yesterday about the GM after the Mobil 1. The guy said there is no difference between the two. Gotta go.
See you
Al