Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stever · December 2016

What's the Outback, too long eh?

Tucson, but I'm a bit reluctant because of some lagging/transmission issues I keep hearing about.

28firefighter · December 2016

stever said:
What's the Outback, too long eh?

Tucson, but I'm a bit reluctant because of some lagging/transmission issues I keep hearing about.

I've read the exact same. Also they don't lease especially well.

corvette · December 2016

Given some of the deals you're posting, I'm starting to think I need to lease next time around.

nyccarguy · December 2016

Get her a power liftgate. That's how I feel driving my Legacy. Screwed together well. Handles nicely. Underpowered.

stickguy · December 2016

don't snooze on the RDX if you really like it (and I can guarantee you won't have any problems with acceleration. Quite the little hot rod, and super smooth doing it). They are pushing some aggressive leases, and I would not doubt you could get a base AWD for the same lease payment as the Sube. But, it won't have nearly as much stuff on it. At least in terms of gadgets.

28firefighter · December 2016

nyccarguy said:

Get her a power liftgate. That's how I feel driving my Legacy. Screwed together well. Handles nicely. Underpowered.

Spoken like someone who has lived through not having the power liftgate.

28firefighter · December 2016

stickguy said:

don't snooze on the RDX if you really like it (and I can guarantee you won't have any problems with acceleration. Quite the little hot rod, and super smooth doing it). They are pushing some aggressive leases, and I would not doubt you could get a base AWD for the same lease payment as the Sube. But, it won't have nearly as much stuff on it. At least in terms of gadgets.

I have seen that. I've suggested a base AWD, but she feels strongly about some of the safety stuff. Can't hurt to look!

28firefighter · December 2016

Potential wrench with a Subaru lease. There are not many XTs floating around, which means we would have to order. Unfortunately unlike the luxury makes, an order does not enable you to lock lease rates so even if they're good now, they may not be when the car arrives.

That is a bit difficult to navigate...

stickguy · December 2016

I agree that the base RDX is feature deficient. Beyond the premium powertrain of course! And really good seats. But need to go up market to get minimum acceptable (these days, to me at least) tech.

my guess is the 2018 will be a new design, based on the just released CRV, so expect lots of good stuff on it. Actually, I really like what I read about the CRV. well equipped too. decently quick it seems with the turbo. Though just out, so not going to lease at all well.

suydam · December 2016

And you're not getting another Escape because . . . ?

tifighter · December 2016

This is from left field, but I've read some good reviews about the new Sportage. Different power train than Hyundai. I bet a loaded turbo is pretty nice.

28firefighter · December 2016

suydam said:

And you're not getting another Escape because . . . ?

The frontal offset crash test rating on it is not good at all. Also, while the powertrain on the Escape has been great, the fit and finish leaves quite a bit to be desired. And, by something to be desired, I mean it rattles and sounds like the center console might fall apart at any second. The dealer says that's normal and they all do it. Therefore I'm out.

28firefighter · December 2016

tifighter said:

This is from left field, but I've read some good reviews about the new Sportage. Different power train than Hyundai. I bet a loaded turbo is pretty nice.

That's a good idea. I'll even be at the Kia dealer tomorrow helping BIL and SIL decide if they want a Soul EV.

corvette · December 2016

I have a power liftgate on the Murano and leave it turned off because it's slower than opening and closing by hand. It will still operate from a button on the dashboard or keyfob, but not when you pull the release above the license plate.

nyccarguy · December 2016

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

Get her a power liftgate. That's how I feel driving my Legacy. Screwed together well. Handles nicely. Underpowered.

Spoken like someone who has lived through not having the power liftgate.

When shopping for our Pilot back in 2011, the only way to get a power liftgate was on a fully loaded TOURING model. I didn't like the wheels on the Pilot Touring, didn't want a DVD Player in the car at all times, & didn't want to pony up the extra $2,500. Of course the Power Liftgate started to be part of the EX-L Pilots. Every time someone we know gets a new car since then, my wife makes sure to ask if it has a power lift gate (while giving me "the look"). A good friend of hers just got a 2017 Highlander. She asked the lift gate question. Her friend replied: "yes! Of course! Don't all SUVs come with power lift gates?"

BTW - anybody looking to go into your own business. Be prepared for situations like today. My Dad is at the dealer getting his truck serviced (oil change, alignment, ABS Light, Stabilitrak Light, Rear Parking Sensors not functioning). A guy texted me at 6:50 this AM telling me he doesn't feel well & isn't coming in today. Another guy calls me at 7:45 am and tells me he's running late (he starts at 8:00 am, lives 2 blocks away, & is late every day) so I guess the phone call means he's going to be later than usual.

tjc78 · December 2016

I have a team of three people. Not a week goes by where one of them is late, has to leave early or out. It is what it is I guess. More or a PITA now that we had to take them hourly with the new FLSA rules (that got repealed at the last minute)

My wife's favorite car "dig" is why her Enclave doesn't have Keyless Start... It only got worse that the Elantra at less than half the price and payment has it.

@28firefighter I thought the RAV leased ok. MSRP almost 31k. $500 down 303/month 12/36. This was a few weeks ago for my mother.

ab348 · December 2016

28firefighter said:

My list is as follows:
(1) 2016.5 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring
(2) 2017 Subaru Forester XT Touring
(3) 2016 BMW X1

I drove 1 and 2 today. Right off the bat, I've knocked #1 off the list.

I saw a thing about the L.A. Auto show on TV this week and they showed the new 2017 CX-5, apparently coming out mid-year. They have sharpened the styling to make it more reminiscent of the Mazda 6, not that it is burning up the sales charts, but the vehicle did look more modern. They were touting the improved interior as well, but the little bit of it I saw didn't knock my socks off. Same gas engines but they are adding a diesel. Mazda seems more focused on squeezing out every last MPG instead of the zoom-zoom these days.

It may be too large, but have you looked at the Nissan Murano? A neighbor's friend came by in a new one a while ago and we got to talking. It was very good looking in pearl white with a straw-colored interior.

stickguy · December 2016

the X1 was really, really nice. definitely quick enough too. But I really can't see it fitting into that budget. Definitely not if you want the nice safety goodies like BLIS.

I have zero interest in a power liftgate. Really don't like the way they work, and just seems like something else to break. I also never wanted power doors on the minivan either though. Maybe I am just too old school for modern day cars?

keyless entry/go, now that is a must. Once you have that, you can't go back.

carnaught · December 2016

firefighter, out of curiousity, did you check out the Buick Envision or GMC Terrain? Looks like the Forrester is in the lead so far.

BTW, recently I checked out the Kia Sportage, and fully equiped, I found them to be surpringly pricey.

stever · December 2016

tjc78 said:
I have a team of three people. Not a week goes by where one of them is late, has to leave early or out. It is what it is I guess. More or a PITA now that we had to take them hourly with the new FLSA rules (that got repealed at the last minute).

I think it's on appeal and hasn't been repealed. Yet - my guess is that the Department of Labor will drop the appeal on Jan. 21st which will essentially repeal it.

I'd like a power liftgate. I initially thought power sliding doors were too slow but that complaint dissipated fast after enjoying the other advantages. Besides the obvious stuff, like opening the door a half block away and dumping your groceries in with no fumbling, they are great out camping where you can open and shut the doors more quietly than you can manually. No slamming needed.

Heck, I'd like automatic front doors!

kyfdx · December 2016

stickguy said:
the X1 was really, really nice. definitely quick enough too. But I really can't see it fitting into that budget. Definitely not if you want the nice safety goodies like BLIS.

I have zero interest in a power liftgate. Really don't like the way they work, and just seems like something else to break. I also never wanted power doors on the minivan either though. Maybe I am just too old school for modern day cars?

keyless entry/go, now that is a must. Once you have that, you can't go back.

My wife's 2011 X3 is a first year model. We bought it used, in 2013. So, get this: It has keyless start, but not keyless entry. :@ You have to pull out the fob, to click the button to get in the vehicle, but once you do that, it will start with just the push button.

Really, I'm not kidding.

qbrozen · December 2016

I definitely miss remote start. No power liftgate on the EX, and that is just fine by me. Way too small and light of a hatch to need it. Wife uses the one on the van constantly (along with the remote start), but it annoys me with its slowness so I usually just do it manually, much to her disbelief.

i agree keyless start should just be a given these days. My biggest surprise in shopping was finding the 2013 GLK did not have it. When the salesman told me to insert the key fob, I said "you are kidding, right?" When my VW Jetta has it, it is just expected elsewhere.

roadburner · December 2016

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
the X1 was really, really nice. definitely quick enough too. But I really can't see it fitting into that budget. Definitely not if you want the nice safety goodies like BLIS.

I have zero interest in a power liftgate. Really don't like the way they work, and just seems like something else to break. I also never wanted power doors on the minivan either though. Maybe I am just too old school for modern day cars?

keyless entry/go, now that is a must. Once you have that, you can't go back.
My wife's 2011 X3 is a first year model. We bought it used, in 2013. So, get this: It has keyless start, but not keyless entry. :@ You have to pull out the fob, to click the button to get in the vehicle, but once you do that, it will start with just the push button.

Really, I'm not kidding.

I always thought that was crazy- BMW should make Comfort Access standard across the board.

28firefighter · December 2016

I'm running out but regarding the X1 - it would require some fancy footwork to get it in our budget for sure. Example:

We qualify for fleet pricing and rates and would also need to do multiple security deposits. If we did it would look something like this for a loaded up 2016 X1:

MSRP: $46,095
Sale Price: $43,040 (invoice)
Less rebates: $39,040 ($2000 option allowance, $1000 holiday cash, $1000 fleet cash)
Adjusted Cap Cost: $39,965 (including acquisition fee of $925)
Money Factor: .00065 (fleet base MF of .00114 less MSDs)
Residual: 63% (36mo/10k)

Monthly: $348/month plus tax brings us to $383/month

Due at signing: $3500 (covers 2800 in MSDs, first month, tags and doc fee)

I don't think it's that big of a deal, but wife thinks it's a lot of work for something towards the upper end of the budget. I want her to drive first.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

28firefighter said:

thebean said:
Buick Enclave?
Also too long unfortunately. We need it to be 185" or shorter in length.

I'm curious as to why the CX-5 wasn't a contender.

kyfdx · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

28firefighter said:

thebean said:
Buick Enclave?
Also too long unfortunately. We need it to be 185" or shorter in length.
I'm curious as to why the CX-5 wasn't a contender.

Too slow?

Michaell · December 2016

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:
the X1 was really, really nice. definitely quick enough too. But I really can't see it fitting into that budget. Definitely not if you want the nice safety goodies like BLIS.

I have zero interest in a power liftgate. Really don't like the way they work, and just seems like something else to break. I also never wanted power doors on the minivan either though. Maybe I am just too old school for modern day cars?

keyless entry/go, now that is a must. Once you have that, you can't go back.
My wife's 2011 X3 is a first year model. We bought it used, in 2013. So, get this: It has keyless start, but not keyless entry. :@ You have to pull out the fob, to click the button to get in the vehicle, but once you do that, it will start with just the push button.

Really, I'm not kidding.

My Jetta works like that. Odd.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

kyfdx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

28firefighter said:

thebean said:
Buick Enclave?
Also too long unfortunately. We need it to be 185" or shorter in length.
I'm curious as to why the CX-5 wasn't a contender.
Too slow?

Not really---should be around 0-60 in 7.5---more than adequate.

andres3 · December 2016

28firefighter said:
I took Thursday and Friday off this week to take care of some baby-prep things around the house and because I was going to lose them at the end of the year if I didn't take them. So, here I am with some free time.

In the spirit of trying to get the Escape-replacement selection process out of the way before the baby comes, I decided to compile a list of potential suitors and then start driving them. My criteria was as follows:
(1) Top Safety Pick or Top Safety Pick+ from IIHS
(2) 27+ cubic feet of cargo space with the second row of seats up
(3) Available options include all the safety nannies - lane departure, active cruise, BLIS, etc.
(4) <$400/month inclusive of tax, zero down (though I would do security deposits) on a lease.
(5) Decent power, similar to the escape.
(6) Higher off the ground

My list is as follows:
(1) 2016.5 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring
(2) 2017 Subaru Forester XT Touring
(3) 2016 BMW X1

I drove 1 and 2 today. Right off the bat, I've knocked #1 off the list.

I excluded the RAV4, CR-V, and Rogue because they're too slow and/or do not lease well. I excluded the RDX because it was too expensive to lease. I excluded the Benz GLA, Infiniti Q30, and Audi Q3 because they're too small in the cargo area. I also excluded the Volvo V60 Cross Country due to cost and the Subaru Outback due to the fact that it won't fit in our garage.

Cars I'm missing?</p>

VW Alltrack; not sure on the cargo space with seats up, but it's ample for its size.

nyccarguy · December 2016

andres3 said:

28firefighter said:
I took Thursday and Friday off this week to take care of some baby-prep things around the house and because I was going to lose them at the end of the year if I didn't take them. So, here I am with some free time.

In the spirit of trying to get the Escape-replacement selection process out of the way before the baby comes, I decided to compile a list of potential suitors and then start driving them. My criteria was as follows:
(1) Top Safety Pick or Top Safety Pick+ from IIHS
(2) 27+ cubic feet of cargo space with the second row of seats up
(3) Available options include all the safety nannies - lane departure, active cruise, BLIS, etc.
(4) <$400/month inclusive of tax, zero down (though I would do security deposits) on a lease.
(5) Decent power, similar to the escape.
(6) Higher off the ground

My list is as follows:
(1) 2016.5 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring
(2) 2017 Subaru Forester XT Touring
(3) 2016 BMW X1

I drove 1 and 2 today. Right off the bat, I've knocked #1 off the list.

I excluded the RAV4, CR-V, and Rogue because they're too slow and/or do not lease well. I excluded the RDX because it was too expensive to lease. I excluded the Benz GLA, Infiniti Q30, and Audi Q3 because they're too small in the cargo area. I also excluded the Volvo V60 Cross Country due to cost and the Subaru Outback due to the fact that it won't fit in our garage.

Cars I'm missing?</p>
VW Alltrack; not sure on the cargo space with seats up, but it's ample for its size.

He's not going for another VW product

stickguy · December 2016

my Jetta is the same way. I figure if I have to have the keys out anyway to open the door, inserting into the key slot is not a big deal, so the push button is not a big deal.

ab348 · December 2016

Mr_Shiftright said:

kyfdx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

28firefighter said:

thebean said:
Buick Enclave?
Also too long unfortunately. We need it to be 185" or shorter in length.
I'm curious as to why the CX-5 wasn't a contender.
Too slow?
Not really---should be around 0-60 in 7.5---more than adequate.

His longer write -up on it indicated otherwise.

Mr_Shiftright · December 2016

There are two engines--I think the 184HP option gives you the mid 7s, which is more than enough for most folks.

stickguy · December 2016

the 2.5l is pretty quick for the class (compact CUV with base engine). Mid-high 7's sounds about right. And seems to be plenty fast enough for most people. The first reviews on the CRV with the 1.5t engine put it probably a smidge quicker than the Mazda.

stever · December 2016

There's an Alltrack review in the WSJ by Dan Neil that's a good read.

28firefighter · December 2016

If the CX-5 did 0-60 in 7.5 it certainly did not feel it. But that's why it made the list in the first place.

I like the Alltrack but you can't get blind spot monitoring on it. Seems silly, honestly.

28firefighter · December 2016

Stopped by a BMW dealer on the east side today since I was here with my BIL. They told me it was a several hour wait for a test drive and recommended I come back another day...never had this happen before.

corvette · December 2016

The economy is booming, despite reports to the contrary.

kyfdx · December 2016

28firefighter said:
Stopped by a BMW dealer on the east side today since I was here with my BIL. They told me it was a several hour wait for a test drive and recommended I come back another day...never had this happen before.

It's a busy week. I would never shop my local BMW dealer on a Saturday. It's too painful.

carnaught · December 2016

Must be nice to have business that's so good that they can afford to blow off a potential customer. Those snowy winter holiday commercials must really be working

.

fintail · December 2016

MB dealer here is always busy too. I stop by every 6 weeks or so, it's unusual to be able to easily find a parking spot and actually be able to chat with a salesperson, especially the one I last dealt with. Economics are very regional, but on the west coast, it's probably an amazing time to be a car dealer.

28firefighter · December 2016

I have no issue at all with the fact that they were busy or the fact that no one was available right away to help me - I know I was a walk-in on the busiest couple of days of the year. My issue was more with the fact that they made no effort to suggest an alternative time, offer me somewhere to wait, etc. I've heard this dealer is not necessarily great, but I wasn't expecting it to be like that...

28firefighter · December 2016

Punch is in for my BIL/SIL. We went today to look at the Ford Focus Electric, Ford C-Max Energi, and the Kia Soul EV+. The Soul won them over without hesitation. In fact, the C-Max wouldn't even run on battery power for us. It kept kicking on the engine.

The negotiations were painful. Right off the bat, the dealer quoted me over email the incorrect money factor - they gave me over email .00006 (so I based all my calculations off that) when in reality the base rate was .00060. Not a huge deal, but we spent 25 minutes while the sales guy tried to get his numbers to line up with mine.

Eventually, my SIL and BIL had to leave and I was fed up with the back and forth, so I left as well. As we are walking out, the manager comes out after me (I hate this) asking if I had 5 minutes to talk with him. I sent my BIL/SIL packing and said I'd call them if we had a deal. After another 5 minutes, we found it and the numbers added up based on the rates and prices they quoted me - suffice to say, the manager was not happy that our sales guy sent out incorrect rates - actually he seemed rather miffed they quoted me rates and prices over email at all...

In any case, I countered their numbers with a price $600 less and we settled in the middle at $300, which is fine since inventory is limited here in the PNW right now. They really made a large, noisy deal about how great a deal I was getting and that we were taking them for a loss. My response, loudly, was that if the deal was that bad, I would be happy to go to one of their competitors and they weren't obligated to do business with me. Several other customers got a good laugh out of that and it quieted down the manager and sales guy.

I broke my cardinal rule of not getting into these situations, though - I was expecting better since, this is supposedly the more respected Kia dealer in the area. Can't imagine what the others like if this is supposedly a good experience.

Final deal was as follows:
2016 Kia Soul EV+
MSRP: $37,460
Sale Price: $33,431
Less Rebates: $18,931 ($14,500 Kia Lease Cash)
Adjusted Cap: $19,526
MF: .00060
Residual: 35% ($13,111)

Monthly (36mo/10k): $198 - No sales tax on leases of EVs here in WA.

Drive Off: $665.50 (Doc Fee, Tags, First Month)

They're picking it up tomorrow. Told my BIL/SIL to be prepared for the hard sell on warranty's, maintenance, spit shine, etc and to pass on all of it.

breld · December 2016

@andres3 - I think you shoukd be the one getting the Alltrack!

I sat in one yesterday when I met up with @Michaell for lunch (he was getting service done in his Jetta). It is a nice overall package, with some attractive interior accents unique to the alltrack. And of course, the DSG is a nice addition if you prefer it, which I know you do.

suydam · December 2016

Nice of you to help them out. A Soul wouldn't work for you? And did you take a look at the Sportage?

28firefighter · December 2016

suydam said:
Nice of you to help them out. A Soul wouldn't work for you? And did you take a look at the Sportage?

I liked the Soul quite a bit actually. The cargo space is very tight for our primary family car. It is more akin to my GTI. I think if we were ever to get rid of the GTI for a more economical city car, the Soul would win hands down and specifically the EV. The Soul EV rides like a much nicer car, has an excellent feature set, and for $198 a month with nothing but drive offs due at signing, it's a lot of car for the money.

I did not take the Sportage for a drive because they couldn't find keys to an SX Turbo for me to test drive. On first glance, I wasn't thrilled with aesthetics but the powertrain and feature set for the money is compelling. Plus given my dealer experience, I'm not overly excited at the idea of going back there for that dog and pony show.

tifighter · December 2016

I'll assume this was the dealer in Kirkland. If yes, I had all kinds of goofiness in trying to get a Soul from them over the summer and ended up elsewhere. There are better options in the area.

fintail · December 2016

Your BIL/SIL owe you a dinner, firefighter.

No sales tax on EV leases, I actually didn't know that. Tasty policy.

28firefighter · December 2016

tifighter said:
I'll assume this was the dealer in Kirkland. If yes, I had all kinds of goofiness in trying to get a Soul from them over the summer and ended up elsewhere. There are better options in the area.

It was. Very frustrating. Started there because they had the most inventory and, from Yelp, seemed to have decent reviews.

Who would you recommend if I wanted to go after the Sportage?

28firefighter · December 2016

fintail said:
Your BIL/SIL owe you a dinner, firefighter.

No sales tax on EV leases, I actually didn't know that. Tasty policy.

Agreed - I probably wouldn't buy an EV outright yet (except maybe a Tesla) until I saw how the longevity proved out, anyway, so the no sales tax on EV leases is very appealing on top of all the lease money they throw at it.

It only totaled an hour of actual work, but that hour was painful.

Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles