Synthetic motor oil

malachy72 · July 2002

that a poster here, who has been a Mobil One fanatic, has recently switched brands. To Shaeffer's maybe?

malachy72 · July 2002

but activity is kind of slow there as well. Some of the info can make your head spin. Nobody's biting on your Fram Oil filter thread there, eh? As I've said before that "Pay me now, or pay me later" was one of the greatest, longest lasting, most effective campaigns ever used. People are still loyal to the brand because of it.

ruking1 · July 2002

#4204

And the marketing efforts aren't hurt by that LOUD orange filter color either eh?

csandste · July 2002

there is a thread on Bobistheoilguy titled "is Bottgers here?" and I didn't start it...

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000146

kirbstoy · July 2002

Some on this board have questioned the value/cost of synthetic oil and as such, I wanted to share with you yesterday's experience. First, I have a 2001 Ford Focus (16K miles) with the z-tec engine, with factory A/C. I run Mobil-1 (5W-30)and several years ago began to augment the Mobil-1 with a metal conditioner called Militec.
Yesterday it was 104 in Sacramento and during the highest temperature of the day, I sat in my car for approximately 30 minutes for my evening meal and to read the paper. The car was idling with the A/C (and cooling fans)on for the entire period. When I was finished, I glanced at the Temp. gauge. The gauge had actually moved one or two "clicks" to the left (cooler). That, in a nutshell is the most convincing reason for me to use synthetic oil. To me, oil performance during northern California's hot summers is the most critical benchmark. Mobil-1 has never, ever failed to protect the engine during the summer months. Just my opinion.

armtdm · July 2002

I have a Ford, well, Mercury Mystique with the 4 cyl Zetec, (same engine, not sure) Now this car has always run warm, all owners say the same thing about the Contour/Mystique. I have tried RedLine Water Wetter (no effect) and I have used synthetic since purchasing the car 4 years ago with 30,000 miles on it. Currently has 70,000. I posted these analysis reports on Bob's board as well. Now go once a year changes (7000-10,000 miles) filter at 6 months, a Pure One or K&N. All samples shown are Amsoil 10w30 but the last one is Amsoil 0W30. After the one year of 0W I again put in 0W30 so it is still in engine. Note that there is basically no diff in results or in the additive package which sort of surprised me. My lab did not provide nitration, oxydation or TBN.

So, car runs warm and in VA it gets hot. This has not had a bad effect on engine. Can anything be attributed to synthetic oil. I don't know. Above poster uses Militic. Does it work. Don't know unless more people try it. It seems though that most people posting here and on Bob's are basically happy with whatever oil they are using. Maybe that is why the # of posts have decreased, people realize it just does not seem to matter much.

Also posting my Toyota results if anyone cares. All reports on Toyota are Amsoil 10W30 with Amsoil filters.

http://home.earthlink.net/~armtdm/merc.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~armtdm/toyota.htm

armtdm · July 2002

Zetec analysis link

http://home.earthlink.net/~armtdm/merc.htm

bigorange30 · July 2002

Did it run hot in the summer with the 10W30? It could be that the 0W30 is just too thick and not flowing enough. I would recommend 5W30 or 10W30 over 0W30.

csandste · July 2002

Been upper 90's with killer humidity in St. Louis and I've left my car with Wal-Mart dino idling for about the same length of time that you have. Needle on my Elantra stayed right where it is when running 70 mph. I don't think most modern cars with computerization and a functioning cooling fan would have any trouble idling in high temps with any oil.

Now even though I don't use synthetic, I would think that the syn. would provide some extra protection were the cooling fan to fail, but with a functioning cooling fan and adequate coolant idling all day shouldn't be a problem.

Actually the extended idling question was posed to Click and Clack a couple of weeks ago. Their answer was that idling was no harder than driving slow, and driving slow was no harder on an engine than driving at normal speeds.

bigorange30 · July 2002

at AutoZone in a buy 5 ($4.99 each) get the 6th one free deal in Lancaster, SC.

What is up with this new "Higher Mileage Formula" and "New Car Formula". I used 10W30 last time and this time I can only find the 10W30 in the higher mileage formula. The new car formula is the 5W30 version. I have a 2002 QX4. Can I not use 10W30 Mobil1 full synthetic in a new car? This seems strange.

csandste · July 2002

Sounds like marketing hype to me.

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

Havoline in SL grade, specifically from Chevron-Texaco should give you equal results.
Excuse me while I run for cover... >:oÞ

thewolverine · July 2002

Funny you should mention AutoZone. Went to the one in Southington CT yesterday - yes Mobil 1 for $4.99 each BUT WITHOUT THE SIXTH FREE. Instead it was $29.74 for 6 - a whopping savings of $.20. Yippee!

FYI the Mobil 1 ATF I wanted was the exact same price. Now AutoZone used to price these around $26 a 6 pack - so it's not just Mobil's synth Oil going up - ATF too.

Now I just paid 21.99 a case (i.e. $3.66 a bottle) at Costco - think I'll truck down and get some more if it's still there.

BTW the VAN drives great so far with the new SL product - just did a 800 mile roundtrip to Syracuse in 90+ heat with 25 mpg while running the A/C. Heat gauge didn't budge. Does seem a tad slower to accelerate though.

Lastly, as for board traffic - it always goes down in the summer - I see this with all the boards I scan (Bob's, Edmunds, Autotopia) as well as EBAY. After all, driving's fun but I'd rather be driving a Titleist!

jeffmust2 · July 2002

This might be of interest on one of the Mustang forums - pictures are rather impressive!
One 4.6L V-8 at 30k miles using Mobile One 100% of the time vs. another 4.6L V-8 that used Castroil dino for 30k miles and then Castroil Syn for its last 10k miles after it changed hands.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181031

ruking1 · July 2002

We can talk about it all we want, but a picture is worth more than a thousand words!! Thanks for posting!!

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

Looks like the Mobil product might have higher detergency than the claimed Castrol. Then, again, there may be several other variables that are not accounted for by the pictures.
Conclusion(?): The newer Mustang has one cleaner rocker cover than the older Mustang.

ruking1 · July 2002

#4218

Unless you are the one that gets stuck scrapping the crap out!!? I take it you have never done that!!!

Another good reason not to use Castrol eh?

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

Actually, I have rebuilt quite a few automotive and motorcycle engines over many years of experience. How about you?
Oh, I agree that cleaning the rocker covers is less than fun. I would also consider that the stained cover probably came from an engine that did not get frequent enough of oil changes, while the cleaner one did. What do you suppose?

ruking1 · July 2002

#4220

Add to that high performance jet engines (F-4E, B-52's, KC-135's etc).

In that sense, I am the wrong one to ask for I had a vehicle with 250k miles using 15k synthetic oil change intervals that looked like the clean one that was posted. So if it is a question of conventional oil change intervals, I would guess than you have to change the conventional oil NTE 3000 miles. But i might add that most conventional oil manufacturers DO NOT expect folks to look at their engine innards like this mustang guy has posted.

The other thing as you well know, is that the engine will run quite nicely with 3-5 more pounds of sludge in it. So in that sense it really doesnt matter. From that perspective, I totally understand why folks that use conventional oil do not see fit to use or want to switch to synthetic oil. Me? I just really like a spanking clean engine whether or not I look at it or not. For example I will not tear down my Corvette Z06 engine just to look at spanking clean engine innards if I dont have to.

thewolverine · July 2002

Thanks - nice to see results rather than hear conjecture.

tkenny53 · July 2002

There is talk and a lot of it,that synthetic oil by chevron and others that the law has allowed them to change to a part hydrocarbon mix and still call it synthetic oil, castro has always been a mix, Amsoil has been a 100% synthetic oil, BUT is concidering to go to the "mix" to lower pricing and get competive! I use Amsoil and by deal is getting the information, he is a long time user and hates to see a great product get worse for the sake of a few$$.

malachy72 · July 2002

today on TNN. They put a car (Firebird or Camaro I believe) on a dyno and measured the horsepower at 302. Then they changed the fluids from standard ATF, and motor oil to royal purple, plus added a RP oil cooler. Measured HP on dyno again and it increased to 310. I thought of one flaw in the test in that they did not specify how long the previous fluids were in the car.

Any thoughts?

tkenny, apparently Amsoil has changed formula on their 'low end' oil, it's not a full synthetic but remains at full synthetic price.

bottgers · July 2002

... to stop buying syns, and switch to dinos. It won't be long before all the companies stop making the real syns, and start producing this faux stuff. Do you think we'll see any of the savings passed down to us? You know we won't, it'll all go in their pockets! The SL dinos are just as good as these fake syns, maybe even better.

armtdm · July 2002

The only non synthetic Amsoil makes is the XL 7500 series which is desgined for the quick lube market. IMHO though they blew it when they only reduced the price by .20 cents. You can get the full synthetic for almost the same price so why bother with the XL series.

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

You don't suppose there's some profiteering going on, do you?

killakella123 · July 2002

Not quite related to synthetic oil, BUT, has anyone seen the commercial for the TORNADO? It is a thing you stick into your air intake line that is supposed to create a tornado like air swirl as the air enters the engine which supposedly causes the fuel to mix better. They had a Chevy Impala on a dyno and they ran it before and after installing the tornado. It gained about 10 hp. Has anyone used this or heard whether or not it works?

adc100 · July 2002

But first I'd likke to sell you some beach front property in arizona.

bottgers · July 2002

..called the Vortex. Sounds like more snake oil to me.

malachy72 · July 2002

person who would try to swindle anyone! I was reading a post on Bob's board where you're offering to send some SUPER TECH filters across the border to Pat in Canada. You are just too nice!
I have to tell you I bought 18 qts of Mobil 1 at Costco on Friday. Not to worry though, I haven't gone over to the dark side, just making a purchase for a few friends.

Fleetwood, my new brand of choice,Chevron Supreme, has been completely sold out at Wallyworld. Please stop telling people about it!

softtower · July 2002

I've been trying to locate some info about Royal Purple oil for quite some time. Didn't find any. Does anybody use it? From what I heard this one has less friction coefficient, you can even tell your engine is running quieter. People even report hp gains (!)

I'm a Mobil-1 10w30 user now, and have always been. On my high-revving Honda engine I'd really like to see less drama when you go past 5000rpm... And seems like if those claims about Royal Purple are true...

So... did anyone try it?

armtdm · July 2002

Try this site

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000010

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

You might want to pick up some Havoline (specifically from Chevron-Texaco, not the previous distributor). Chevron is the company that has developed hydrocracking (splitting long chain molecules to shorter ones, using hydrogen atoms as splitting wedges, you might say). Surely they use their own resulting products in the formulation of the oils they sell to the public, such as Havoline SL. They sell those base stocks to other oil companies as well, so we might eventually find Chevron base stocks in several brands of SL oil.

adc100 · July 2002

Web site has little technical information. They give this chart that gives film strength. No units no nothing. Very shallow. I have heard that their oils are not fully synthetic. Sorry but there are better more reliable oils on the market, IMHO.

bluedevils · July 2002

On a recent vacation to southern California, I saw Chevron Supreme at a Target store for 97 cents a quart. This is even cheaper than the $1.08 at the Wal-Mart stores in my area (SE Michigan).

gm02 · July 2002

Can anyone provide some insight into what the GM 4178 standard is? I have 2 GM vehicles and have recently switched to M1 with Pure One filters on both.
Thanks for the help.

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

Can you get Havoline in your area? I consider it to be a premium petro oil. See #4234 >;^]

bottgers · July 2002

Did we decide yet whether or not the Havoline SL is as premium as the Chevron SL?

ruking1 · July 2002

#4239

Texaco makes Havoline. Chevron makes Chevron. The company is on the NYSE as ChevronTexaco.

bluedevils · July 2002

Yes, Havoline is available in my area (SE Mich). I've heard good things about Havoline's petrol-based oil, even before the hydrocracked/SL/group 2 & 3 stuff hit the scene. So are the Chevron Supreme and the Citgo Supergard. All 3 are just over a buck a quart.

malachy72 · July 2002

Here in NY there is still a lot of Texaco Havoline SL being sold for as little as 66 cents a quart which was distributed by Equilon and not Chevron-Texaco. It does not have the "ISOSYN" formulation that Chevron Supreme has as well as the Havoline distributed by Chevron-Texaco.

yooper53 · July 2002

Haven't seen an ad for that in a long time. What I found humorous about it was their trying to convince us that its similar in principle to a turbine engine and that therefore its got to work. I vaguely recall seeing posts about a couple independent tests done on it. Their conclusion is that its bogus.

malachy72 · July 2002

and test of the "Tornado" and found it did nothing. On a board related topic, will all you former synthetic oil users please resume synthetic oil use as it is getting very frustrating to see the shelves sold out of Chevron Supreme SL while there is loads and loads of synthetic oils remaining there waiting for their former friends to pick them up!

aorta · July 2002

5 qt jugs Mobil 1 10/30 at WalMart here in TX : $17.95 + .0825 tax ( $ 3.89/qt )

mrdetailer · July 2002

Will let you know how the analysis of the Valvoline Syn Blend 5W-30 works out as soon as I receive it. I want to see how an SL oil comes out in the analysis.

bottgers · July 2002

You need not worry, the Havoline SL is the same thing as Chevron's. Between the two, you should be able to find what you need!

malachy72 · July 2002

that's not chevron, and I'm serious about this chevron shortage, I'm seeing the information on this oil creeping into other forums. It's not a little secret any longer. Just my 2 cents.

n8wvi · July 2002

Thought I'd post the results of my oil analysis.
Car: 1997 Subaru 2.2L driven almost exclusively to and from work which is an 80 mile round drip, 70 of which is on the freeway.
Oil: Amsoil 5w-30 ( the '25,000 mile' flavor, not the '7,500 mile' kind ). The oil had about 5,200 miles on it. Filter was a purolator pure one. Analysis also done by Amsoil.
Glycol: neg
% water: < 0.05
% fuel: < 1.0
viscosity @ 100 C: 11.0
% solids: tr
soot: na
% oxd: 10.0
% nox: 24.3
tbn: 7.0
Fe: 8
Cr: 0
Pb: 2
Cu: 4
Sn: 1
Al: 8
Ni: 0
Ag: 0 (who makes engine parts out of silver anyway?)
Mn: 1
Si: 10
B: 35
Na: 3
Mg: 396
Ca: 3162
Ba: 0
P: 1226
Zn: 1529
Mo, Ti, V, and Cd all zero.
I'm encouraged by the iron and lead numbers. The ones I'm not sure of are aluminum and silicon, and I'm ASSUMING the mg, ca, p, and zn are coming from the oil, not my engine.
My next drain I think I'll go 7,000 miles and try this again.
Any thoughts? Comments?

Dave

n8wvi · July 2002

I forgot to ask about the %oxd and %nox. What do they mean?

adc100 · July 2002

I have come to see that Amsoil puts up better #'s than Mobil 1. It remains to be seen what the latest generation (SuperSyn does). I will be running an analysis on it in a couple of months and compare it to the TriSyn. Its unfortunate you drained it. You obviously could have gone further. The aluminum could have come from your heads or possibly you have aluminum bearings. However I wouldn't worry about that level of aluminum. The last two analysis I got back on Mobil 1 at 5K and 6K interestingly both had Aluminum at 8. And the one vehicle is an (b)all aluminum engine(/b). (Nissan 2L) I say interesting because I believe Analysts Inc does the analysis for Amsoil??? Makes you wonder.

The %oxd is the percentage of oil oxidation. The %nox is the percentage nitration which is a measure of the acidic buildip in the oil (I believe)

I would recommend that you check out this site:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

You will get your questions answered there This board has become somewhat stagnent, as you can see.

armtdm · July 2002

Yes, the bottom half of the elements are additvies. Amsoil is heavy on the zinc and phosphorus as wear additives. (main reason they are not API certified, too heavy on these additives) Anything under 30 ppm for silicon is okay. Silicon is an absolute. Iron for example is one that at 8 ppm at 5000 miles is good and 16 ppm at 10,000 would also be good (indicates gradual wear) . Silicon though once it reaches say 33 ppm will be flagged by the lab as excessive regardless of mileage.

The TBN (ability of oil to neutralize acid) at 7 is okay but to me indicates that there is no way this oil could go 25,000 miles. The rule of thumb is that when TBN gets to be 50% of original value or 2 the oil needs to be changed. This oil started out around 11 or 12 and at 5000 miles is down to 7. If the same degradation continued it would need to be changed well before 25,000 miles. Of course that is one year or 25,000 for Amsoil with a filter mandatory at 6 months. Aluminum is fine.

Remember, this is trend analysis one sample does not tell you much. Oxidation and nitration are okay, don't remember if the concern begins over 50% on these or not. Lab obviously said oil good fgor continued use. The most I can go on Amsoil is 12,000 miles before my silicon goes through the roof. True on all of my cars.

I think your analysis looks good.

Analysts Inc used to do the analysis for Amsoil until about 3-5 years ago when Amsoil started its own lab. I use Analysts Inc and have since early 90s but they are no longer affiliated with Amsoil in any way.

Synthetic motor oil

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