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I also use the Mobil One ATF in the 6 speed transmission.( ATF is specified) Again I noticed that the transmision runs smoother. The gears and the gear shifting feels less notchier (yes I know this is not very precise) I also noticed that I get app 1 mpg better.
4apexs I would get analysis on the first round at or near 7.5K miles, and if all results were very strong for predictable satisfactory continuance, I'd go on out to 10K. I would then change oil and filter. Let me confess that I went out to 10K one time on synthetic. I never did it again, because I was willing to pay for the reassurance that changing my synthetic between 6K and 8K gave me.
ruking1 Hey, if your Toyota dealer was here, I'd be shopping there for my next car! I do not have a good feeling about my local Toyota outfit, and I do not know anyone here that does.
This makes all the sense in the world. Imagine trying to keep the 3000 mile interval schedule with commercial trucks!! If an oil change costs say 30 bucks and now you have your crew taking one hr each to get the deed done, How much more now is a 3000 mile interval oil change? I would say this is a good use of Mobil One and the ability to let you do a 15k oil change interval. Basically you save 5x the product and 5 manhours per 15k interval. Do the math and see if it is worth it or not.
Instead consider the Delvac 1 5W-40 or the Rotella T 5W-40 syn.
This V6 is in the Sienna, Camry, Avalon, Lexus RX300 & ES300, etc. It really is Toyota's workhorse power plant. Earliest examples came from the Sienna where the engine runs hotter because of poor airflow characteristics.
Some of the more expert posters believe the sludge forms in the top of this engine because of the shearing effect of some internal gears at high RPM causing the oil to breakdown at relatively low mileages. Add in the 5k-7.5k recommended change interval in the Toyota's owner manuals plus a lot of buyers that might skip a change...or two...and you have the end result of sludge or "gel" as Toyota terms it.
Toyota extended their liability to fix these puppies to 8 yrs upon proof from the owner that they changed their oil/filter at least ONCE PER YEAR.
This new extended coverage shows what the power of bad publicity and wide-latitude, over-eager manual recommendations on a high-performance V-6(to help sales) can do... By the way, Toyota's only modification to date on their V-6 is to slightly increase the oil tube passage diameters in the head.
I really have nothing to prove! I ran a Toyota 1987 TLC to app 250k miles with 15k oil change intervals. It ran just fine with NO sludge! If anything Mobil One proved to me that it does work!? To boot I ran mostly FRAM oil filters!
The Sienna is built on the Camry chassis so the two are similiar although the engine in my 2001 XLE is borrowed from Lexus while the 1998 engine is the same as Camry.
Right now only the 2001 has M1 ATF - runs great but I plan on going to it for the 1998 shortly.
I've verified with my dealer M1 ATF is fine for both the 1998 and 2001 Siennas - I'm sure it will work for Camry.
BTW - how long have you been running Militec? - I'd always filled it under snake oil but I'm still curious.
In spite of Toyota's declaration I believe that if you had a sludge problem they would certainly question your intervals.
Thanks
He now recommends Sypersyn again.
I have app 1k miles on the new Mobil One Supersyn. In terms of seat of the pants difference, I can honestly not discern,
(other than the car runs better after a wash and gets 50 more horsepower when you change the oil!)
In this case I will have to rely on the R&D that has gone into this new product. I did cut open the oem oil filter after 14500 miles and did take an extended look at the Mobil One trisynthetic. Besides the oily mess, there were hardly any particles and NO sludge!
Note two things on these samples. The silicon level which has dropped to normal ranges after about 20,-000 miles on the engine from a high of 173 to 18 ppm. Copper which is still too high for me but reduced considerably from 423 to 194 ppm. Note that on a per 1000 miles basis this went from 97 ppm/1000 miles to 15ppm/1000 miles., quite a decrease. Either the copper components in question are wearing very quickly and the engine will blow soon or the abnormal manufacturing of components has worn down to acceptable levels in the future. May never know. Does show the value of trend analysis and using the same oil over time to evaluate engine wear. .
Oil used in the last two samples was Amsoil 10W30 full synthetic, not the XL series. However, based upon the TBN of just under 5, I would say I could probably go 15,000 on this oil but very doubtful it would make 25,000. I am going to stick with the 12,000 mile change on this engine, which is about 60% interstate use.
Miles 4365 12190 12947
iron 29 21 18
chromium 4 4 5
nickel <1 <1 1
aluminum 8 7 6
lead 14 13 16
copper 423 306 194
tin <1 <1 2
silver <1 <1 <1
titanium <1 <1 <1
silicon 173 47 18
boron 61 9 3
sodium 11 7 7
potasium 15 <10 <10
moly <5 <5 <5
phosphorus 1067 1283 1215
zinc 1023 1502 1655
calcium 233 2575 3373
barium <10 <10 <10
magnesium 977 457 355
antimonty <30 <30 <30
vanadium <1 <1 <1
fuel % vol ? ? 1.0
total solids .3 .3 .3
water <10 <10 <10
visc 100C ? ? 11.5
SAE Grade ? ? 30
TBN ? ? 4.99
The lab is Analysts Inc. out of Hoffman Estates, IL. for all three samples. No oil additives used, gas additives are Amsoil PI, Schaeffer Neutra and Chevron Techron at various intervals.
I would go with a straight synthetic or a straight conventional. You pay way more for a blended that is not worth the extra cash.
Larry
The same Wal-Mart has the SuperSyn (SL-rated) Mobil 1 synthetic for $3.58/qt.
Thank You,
Mark
Yes I do use Mobil One 5w-30.
(and occassionally 0w-30, or 10w-30. hard to pass up the sales)
I would recommend if you have any doubt, to use the oil analysis both to establish a baseline and monitor trend analysis. I do not do the oil analysis for several reasons, 1. I dont have any doubt 2. The DIC in my machine (computer) calculates the circumstances in which I drive 3. The manufacturer (of one of my machines specifies up to 15k and/or per year. Realistically, I change the oil and filter between 13.5k to 15k. I do use oem AC Delco PF-44's and in TLC's OEM Toyota brand, filters. I have full confidence that Mobil One oil filters ARE better than the AC Delco PF-44, but in my mind the bang for the buck doesnt justify its use.
I have use Mobil One with 15k oil changes in TLC's for a lot of miles (app 700k)on several vehicles of course, the longest being app 250k . When I bring it into the dealers for each 60k valve checking, all I get from the dealer is how clean and how little wear the engines show. I fully expect to keep ea of the current vehicles to 200,000 and beyond or until boredom sets in!
If you want to step up the fastidious level it would be with an Amsoil or Redline product with their recommended filters.
Aluminum = 8
Chromium = 3
Iron = 23
Copper = 30
Lead = 9
Tin = 5
Molybdenum = 3
Nickel = 1
Manganese = 4
Silver = 0
Titanium = 0
Potassium = 0
Boron = 42
Silicon = 21
Sodium = 8
Calcium = 879
Magnesium = 1203
Phosphorus = 620
Zinc = 760
Barium = 1
TBN = 8
SUS Visc. @210 F = 62.2 (59-65 is what Mobil1 10w30 is supposed to be)
Blackstone says that this is normal for an engine wearing in. They say that after the wear-in, I should be able to take the oil longer as evidenced by the TBN results. I am rather satisfied with this and expect the metals to come down on the next test.
Like Ruking1, I will buy the Mobil1 that is on sale. I put 5w30 for newer engines in the engine this time. I since found a 5 qt. jug at Wally World for $17.88 of the 10w30 with TriSyn. I expect that it was a closeout price since Mobil1 is repalcing TriSyn with SuperSyn. I couldn't pass up the price.
I'm assuming that one of your vehicles is a BMW. I think you are on the right track keeping the same filter in the whole time. My VW recommends 10K for the oil and filter using synthetic. I am much more confident now that SuperSyn is out. I had a couple of analyises done using TriSyn on my S-10 and I was not pleased at all with the wear metals (ie iron and lead). This was a major weak point for the Trisynth formulation. The new SuperSyn has some moly in it to make up for the lack of zinc. I looked at a couple of analyises on Bob's board and it looks very promising. It is MUCH better than Trisyn, which, in my opinion, was Mobil's worst formulation. More results will come out of the woodwork.....
Yeah, I agree that they have a much better formula in the new SL rated synthetic, Super Syn. I have read the writeups on the new formula and it is better in almost every category! As you have indicated domestic as well as import manufacturers have gone to the longer drain intervals; specifically from every 3k to app 12-15k or a yrs time. BMW, MB, Porsche, Corvette, to name some that I am familar with all have gone to 10-15k intervals.
I can understand and respect this personal preference. However for a few dollars more (200 on up) you can also do a 2 filter with bypass situation and also a preoiler. There are many aftermarket vendors for this very preference. Amsoil makes 2 filter bypass products and I have seen preoilers in the Summit Racing catalog! Again for me what is important are dualfold 1 what is your goal? 2. price/performance
As you probably know a preoiler prelubricates the engine based on the premise that 50% of the engine wear occurs at start up. The 2 filter bypass products are self explanatory in that one filter filters the gross volume of the oil and the other filter takes a much smaller % and fine filters the oil with the dual end goal of oil where and when you need it. cleaner oil and lasting longer for roughly a 30-40% reduction due to particulate wear! Combined with synthetic oil man oh man!!! Shoot now I am on a roll, lets us put in oil coolers which would add more oil and drop operating temps app 20-50 degrees.
Actually not much difference: I buy Mobil One synthetic on sale, change it at 15k or so, buy OEM filters (on sale) and I think we are both thankful that on this thread we have discussed that Champion Labs makes a 98% filter sold by WalMart for 1.97 under the house SUPER TECH brand name! When I run out of the OEM filters, I sure am going to give them a try!
How about just driving up to the dealer and letting them change the oil at the frequency specified in your manual?
Let's see - you can spend money and time researching what the best oil and filter is. Then you can spend time trying to get those items at a sale. Then you try to extend the oil change interval and send oil for analysis. Well, you send it for analysis anyway, just out of curiosity. And then you spend your time reading my post, and everybody else's posts.
Why don't you just let the dealer handle it, and forget about it? Most charge only $20-$30 for an oil change. And the job they do is totally adequate, IMO.
Just out of curiosity - when you take a taxi, or take the bus, or take a flight with an airline, do you worry about the oil in the engine(s)?
Actually being a former bomber,tanker, fighter, etc etc maintenance officer, actually I do!
eric105 - I didn't mean to sound critical, but after rereading my post - yes, maybe I did sound critical - I apologize! It's not that I don't like the discussion - I am just amazed that you guys take this subject so seriously. I think most people don't know a thing about oil, and get along just fine. By the way do you really believe in oil analysis? When was the last time the analysis told you what was wrong with your engine before if blew up? As to extending drain intervals and preserving the environment - that is commendable.
The internet has had some interesting effects. World wide, people can get together and form small sub groups for interests most might find at least slightly eccentric. For example:
http://www.operagloves.com/glovmain.html
If the above site gets 100 dedicated viewers who partake, it lives. But imagine where we now have 100 people getting together world wide out of the billions living here, as well as the millions on the net.
As for our subject matter, you are obviously not an engineer!! :-) Motor heads and such eat this stuff up... we are everywhere, be on your guard sir, be on your guard!! Oil neurotics are everywhere; call an Amesoil rep and get your ear bent. hehehe...