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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • df2000df2000 Member Posts: 60
    I would recommend you GC "German Castrol",it exceptinal oil sold in AUTOZONE only, in one grade 0W-30 only, bottle have to say "made in GERMANY" on the back. Analysis show this oil on thick side of 30, almost 40. And as you already know 0W oil can be market as 5W or 10W as well.Just look for Castrol Syntec 0W-30 made in Germany,any other grades are just the regular Castrol stuff. Another choice mix Mobil 1 5W-30/10W-30 with 1-2q of Mobil 1 15W-50 what give grade you want.
  • sgrd0qsgrd0q Member Posts: 398
    I posted in another forum, but I'll post here too, as this applies to motor oil.

    I am driving to a mountain in Canada where the temperatures are forecast to be record low. The forecast is for -25F.

    Is there going to be a problem starting the car at -25F as far as the oil is concerned?

    I currently have Mobil 5W-30 in my car - 2001 Maxima.

    Thanks!
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    a synthetic oil like your mobil 1 5w30 is really what you need at that ambient temp. in my opinion. I'd also try to warm up the car awhile for probably like several minutes before shifting to drive. I hear shifting too quickly during startup when temps are freezing as heck can actually cause tremendous wear on the tranny, may even crack it?.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Synthetic ATF fluids are available as well. For example, Pep Boys carries Mobil 1 ATF.

    Flushing transmission fluid with synthetics cost more than $200: about $100 for labor and other $100 for the synthetics. Mobil 1 ATF costs about $7 per quart at Pep Boys. It depends on model, but for my cars 16 quarts of ATF is required for flushing. Dropping a pan costs even more.

    It hardly makes sense flushing transmission for a single trip. If it is about time for transmission service any case, though, I would spend the extra $100 on synthetic ATF. Not so much for cold weather, as for sake of hot one, and for sake of the superior quality of the fluids.
  • sgrd0qsgrd0q Member Posts: 398
    Thanks all for replying. Car struggled for five seconds but started at -19 F! All worked well during the trip.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    "The Mobil 1 Extended Performance line is probably the best protection money can buy right now, at the risk of being "out of compliance" with some 2006 owner's manuals which require SM and Starburst compliance (so the government will "honor" their fuel economy studies)."

    Mobil 1 EP recently changed to SM.
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    So does that mean, they took out some of the additives and still cost a whole bunch??
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Yeah, I'd like to know what's going on, too, with the SM additive packs - supposedly they give up engine protection in favor of catalytic converter longevity and friction modifiers to improve mileage. Hs this changed? Even the High Mileage motor oil formulations from various manufacturers seem to have gone SM/GF-4. Although the virgin oil analysis still indicates they are at the top end of the permissible 30 weight viscoscity, meaning they are still thicker than normal 5-30's.

    So, what's the difference then between regular 5-30 Mobil 1 and the EP package?
  • fear_hopefear_hope Member Posts: 90
    Just purchased a 2006 Pontiac Vibe. The oil change interval is 5000k. I don't want to use dino oil beyond 3000k, but it seems a waste to use synthetic with a 5000k oil change ($ and oil). Can someone with professional experience advise me? I thought to use semi-synthetic or mix 2 qts Mobil 1 with 3 qts Mobil dino...
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    None of us have professional experience; I guess big rig drivers and truck companies do, since they are always doing oil tests, and rebuilding engines and actually seeing what goes on. A few posters brag of 150,000+ miles on their cars/trucks with nothing but a brand name, conventional motor oil and reasonably regular oil changes.

    The general feeling on cars with OLM (oil life monitors) (doesn't the Vibe, from GM, have one?) is to trust the oil life monitor; and if you are the nervous type, either replace the oil early (at 50% or 75% remaining life) or use full synthetic.

    If the Vibe, a Matrix twin, doesn't come with an OLM, then you have to tell us what the owner's manual recommends - even owner's manuals from different manufacturers seem to disagree -

    1. Ford recommends maximum 5,000 mile oil change intervals, with 3,000 miles for severe service. Severe service is a lot of short (less than 5 miles) trips between oil changes. Keep in mind Ford's house brand oil, Motorcraft, is now semi-synthetic for both 5-20 and 5-30, reportedly 50% Group III (darn good stuff) and 50% Group II (hydrocracked, not solvent refined) so all in all they are taking a shorter interval/higher oil quality approach.

    2. Daimler Chrysler was one of the last 7,500 mile/3,750 oil change interval hold-outs, but is now at 6,000/3,000 BUT with an important piece of fine print: if you read their description of "severe" service, almost everyone in America (except a long daily freeway commmuter in a non-dusty area with mild winters and summers) falls into the severe service category. Their oil requirement is SM/GF-4; most oil blenders are forced to use hydrocracked, and not solvent refined oil, as the base oil to meet this spec. Hydrocracked, de-waxed conventional oil is pretty good stuff, not as good as the Motorcraft/Conoco synthetic blends.

    3. Honda recommends 10,000 mile oil change intervals, 5,000 for severe (but most of their dealers recommend 3,000 mile changes). Their oil requirement is 5-20, a highly engineered (better base stock quality and additives) oil with essentially semi-synthetic characteristics.

    I have come to believe that a 3,000 or 5,000 mile interval is reasonable, but a 5,000 mile interval is best if you are doing a freeway commute to work, with light to moderate traffic (not heavy stop and go). Otherwise 3,000 mile intervals are safer.

    There are a lot of good oils out there, now that the API (American Petroleum Institute) has upgraded its requirements. If your car uses 5-20, almost any major brand makes a good quality 5-20. Personally I lean towards one of the Conoco-Phillips brands, which are all semi-synthetic at generally bargain prices (less than their competitors "conventional" oils, which are probably Group II or Group II+). These brands are TropArctic, Motorcraft, Union 76, Kendall (easy to find at Firestone Mastercare shops). Or you can find a ton of cheap Group IV full synthetic from Mobil at Walmart.

    You can either trust what's coming out of your dealer's bulk oil barrels, or carry in your own (dealer's don't resent walk-in oil). Some of the flakier oil change chains were exposed as using subpar oil in bulk barrels while claiming it was brandname multigrade; no dealer has been accused of this, to my knowledge, but many people have complained about getting 10-30 or 10-40 when their owner's manual calls for 5-20 or 5-30 (mainly so the dealer can keep owners of older trucks and suv's happy, they like those older style multigrade oils); for some reason 10-30 and 10-40 are often little cheaper, too.

    Welcome to the world of oils, the more you know, the less you understand. My personal recommendation would be to buy Mobil 1 5-30 or 5-20, whatever your car calls for, and take it in for 5,000 mile oil changes at the dealer. That way you keep up your warranty (which a lot of other options WON'T do) without living at the dealership; the Mobil 1 costs a little more, the extended oil change interval partly makes up for that.

    I am not a fan of three things: do it yourself oil blending, that's why Mobil etc. engineers get the big bucks; additives like Lube Control and Lucas, etc.; and oil changes beyond 5,000 miles without an OLM, it's just too much of a crap shoot as to whether your additive package will go the distance based on YOUR actual driving conditions and driving style - with most oils, regular or synthetic, it isn't the actual oil that gives out first, its the additive package. Although premium oils supposedly have better additive packages, there's only so much room in what goes to make up a quart of oil, for additives instead of oil.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I think it also needs to be said that the OCI is also determined by the sump size. So for example on my 2004 Honda Civic with a sump of 3.4 quarts oil and oil filter change and 3.2 qts oil change only, the 10,000 mile OCI is factored with those figures in mind. So if the sump was 1 quart larger or 4.4 or 4.2 quarts respectively; you can go app 29 to 31 % longer or 2,900 to 3,100 miles or 12,900 to 13,100 miles vs 10,000 miles.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    That's one of the issues I use when I argue on behalf of BMWs ~15,000 mile oil change schedule. For their I6 engines, they use a 7 quart capacity and spec only very high quality Synthetic oil.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Since we are on a roll, another is the TBN. Again using the 2004 Honda Civic, just a switch from conventional (7 TBN) to synthetic say Mobil One 0w20 (12 TBN) (just so happens I have this in the crankcase ) :), one can easily do the math a number of ways: i.e. here is one way 12 TBN-7 TBN = 5 TBN/7 = 71% x 10,000= 17.100 miles. vs 10,000 miles.

    To keep on the synthetic being specified, for say a 15,000 mile OCI, the Z06 Corvette which I am familar, uses Mobil One 5w30 has a 6.5 qt crankcase and the OLM goes up to 15,000 miles.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I saw oil change pictures from a Civic owner who went 10,000 on the factory oil (first oil change). It wasn't a pretty sight - no sludge, but very, very black and thick looking (not a scientific test), and the filter looked a mess.

    No thanks, I'd rather use the great oils you talk about and still change at 5,000 miles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well for sure the 3000,5,000 mile OCI habit is VERY hard to break! :(:) I think that is a MAJOR reason why UOA's has been very slow to hit the market in terms of widespread frequency and/or use. The other reason is to do a UOA costs between 15-35 dollars. OLM's for that matter are simply not trusted.

    Actually the color is really a non scientific indication the oil is in fact doing its job. :)
  • jlilleyjlilley Member Posts: 1
    I work for a quick lube service center and will tell you that they (quick lubes) and alot of dealers are going to tell you every 3,000 miles because that puts more money in their pocket over the year. Your 2000 Odyssey should have a maintenance light for your oil changes. Those are fairly accurate from what I have read and studied on. I go by the one on my 2000 Chevy Z71. They measure engine temp, rpms, avg rpms, engine running time, and atmosphere temps. I have noticed that mine does vary a little depending on my trips between oil changes. I do run Mobil 1 and would only recommend Redline or Royal Purple over it.
    I am totally against Penzoil due to the oder that I have come to notice and can pick out when I drop a drain plug. No other oil smells worse in my opinion. I also notice that all of our customers that use Penzoil always come in a quart or more low. Even on new vehicles. I finally got one to switch to Valvoline, (lube center brand). It took about 2 oil changes after but he was never low again (unless he went way over on mileage) and the horrible odor was gone.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, it sounds like that old Pennsylvania Grade Crude smell is still alive and well. I used to overhaul lots of engines back in the 1970s and could always tell when an engine had been run on any of the Pennsylvania grade oils. How? The smell (and the sludge inside). Oils like Quaker State, Pennzoil and Wolf's Head were (are still?) all paraffin based oils and according to what my Gearhead mentors told me at the time, it was the paraffin that was causing the smell (and the sludging).

    jlilley have you had the occasion to change the oil from any Quaker State lubricated cars? If so, does it smell the same as the Pennzoil?

    True story, I was hired to overhaul the engine in an old Dodge Dart with the venerable 225 Slant-Six engine (an engine that even with bad maintenance was usually good for 200K miles). Said engine had about 100K on the clock and had a couple of rods a-knocking. The owner complained that recently the engine had simply been blowing all of its oil out through the breather cap (the oil filler cap on those engines was a slide on affair with a wire mesh inside the cap and a breather tube leading to the air cleaner housing). After a couple of air filters had been destroyed in short order, this guy simply disconnected the hose to the filter housing and let the oil vent all over the engine. What a mess.

    When I pulled the engine apart (actually all I needed to do was to pull the valve cover) I found a smelly (so bad I wanted to retch) and gooey paraffin mess that was so thick that the rocker arm oil couldn't find its way back down to the pan (in spite of the absolutely cavernous return galleries going down the lower side of the engine). I called up the owner and said, "Let me guess, you used Quaker State oil."

    "Nope," he replied, "Wolf's Head, my dad swears by that stuff and this was his car before he passed it on to me."

    Long story short, he insisted that I refill the newly rebuilt engine with Wolf's Head oil in spite of my protests otherwise. :confuse: :cry:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fear_hopefear_hope Member Posts: 90
    Thanks for all of the info and advise. My manual says every 4000K, and so that is what I will do. It also has a requirement for a specific code of oil (and of course it mentions Mr. Goodwrench as meeting those specs). I looked in the store and Mobile 7500 meets those specs, so I will probably go with that at 4000K until the warranty is up. Then perhaps full synthetic at 5000K. (By the way my auto does not have one of those oil change indicators).
  • esperoespero Member Posts: 7
    just use the cars spec for oils ect forget the babble that oil makers give as long as the SAE/API (SI, SJ, ect). ratings are correct for your car forget the rest.
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    I use Mobil one, I notice my last oil change the quick lube center used 10-w30 my vehicle owners manual call's for 5w-30. The quick lube place told me they had no 5-w30 in synthetic.

    I don’t think Ill return to that place again.
  • clambakeclambake Member Posts: 2
    What would you say are the weaknesses of oils such as Mobil 1, Castrol Edge or Shell Helix? Obviously they only tell you the benefits on the bottle. :surprise:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The only "weaknesses" that I'm aware of are as follows:

    1) If your engine burns/leaks a lot of oil, then using synthetic can get expensive.

    2) Synthetic oil cannot hold TEL (lead from leaded gasoline) in suspension. If you are operating a car in an area that still uses TEL, DO NOT use synthetic oil, you will destroy your engine in as little as 200 hours of operation, even with frequent oil changes.

    3) The following three characteristics, which are normally considered benefits of synthetic oil combine to make it less than desirable for use in cars that are only driven on an occasional (i.e. once a month or so) basis. The net result of using a synthetic oil in an occasionally used engine is that it will quite literally rust from the inside out.
    3a) Synthetic oil has far greater stability under the normally high internal engine temperatures (meaning that it doesn't vaporize and coat the inside of the engine with a layer of varnish).
    3b) Synthetic oil has a far greater capacity to be manufactured with many more additives in its witches brew, detergents being one of those additives. What that means is that the internals of your engine will end up far cleaner and varnish free compared to the same engine being run under the same circumstances on conventional oil (i.e. residual -as in from previously used conventional oil- varnish coating on the internal surfaces will be washed away).
    3c) The superior cold temperature flow properties of the synthetics mean that post engine shutdown, if left long enough (as in weeks) all of the oil that isn't pooled somewhere will eventually find its way back to the oil pan.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I'd like to hear your rebuttle to the statement quoted in post #6190 that Mobil 1's EP is the best protection out there. That doesn't jive with what you explained to me.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    See my message over in the Slippery Subject discussion, I cannot take wading through the bilge water from that stupid &%#@~*^$\== spammer. :mad:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    first spammer attack on edmunds that I witnessed.
    Some work for hosts to remove postings.

    Krzys
  • phalanxphalanx Member Posts: 5
    just drive the vehicle normal, use 1 oil type (Quaker) and change it every 3-5k miles and don't race it. There all is well! Just remember what you sell to someone is what you expect to get from someone else. :shades:
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    .... with 390,305 miles on the original engine. The guy bought with 287,000 miles from another fellow who had used it as a daily commuter. The body was decent, the interior a bit ratty, but the engine sang smoooth and smokeless.

    Synthetic oil and OEM filter every 5k per the owner.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    I've seen a Toyota pickup and a Corolla both with slightly over 375K, and several Hondas with 300K+ all running strong on dino. I had a '66 Bel-Air that went 310K on dino as well, but I don't think I've personally seen anything with 390K. Impressive!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I've never *verified* a piston engine with over 300K on it that hadn't had some "work"--like a head gasket, valve job, etc.---in other words "opened up". I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never seen a good documented case of it. Anecdotal evidence might be true (or not) but it isn't scientifically tested, so we don't know from anecdotes.

    My impression is that "bottom ends" in modern engines are capable of 300K but that usually top ends like cylinder heads, or vital accessories like the oil pump, fail and keep the bottom end from reading the elusive 300K.

    In truth, the mileage potential doesn't much matter to owners, since most cars are junked or wrecked or sold prior to the 300K mark anyway.

    If you go to a modern wrecking yard, you don't see odometers with 300K on them. Sometimes you see them in advertisements, but who knows what's what with that.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would change the filter ONLY when you change the oil(and filter), i.e., in your case; each 15,000 miles.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    Hi all, I'm using Mobile 1 extended-life full synthetic in my 91 Geo with 120K miles. Since this oil is guarranteed by Mobile 1 for 15K miles, I intend to change it every 15K miles or twice a year. My question is can I leave the filter on the entire time, or do I need to change it every 5K miles or something. I use Fram Tough Guard filter. Their top-line ExtraTough Guard filter is good for 7K miles according to the package. So I figured the cheaper ToughGuard will be good for 5K miles? Thanks.
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    That's the answer I was hoping to hear ;)

    I know that's less than ideal. But it's an old car, as long as it's not too harmful it's worth the convenience to me.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am not sure what you mean!? To me it IS ideal.

    I have been running 15,000 mile OCIs with Mobil One 5w30 for over 700,000 miles. I run one 25,000 miles (5w40 Mobil One Truck and SUV). It is a turbo diesel!!!

    I understand most folks are of the 3k OCI bent. Another way to say it would be: why change oil 47 times when 234 times will do just fine!! :)

    As an aside, I think most manufacturer's are going to the longer OCI's. Honda recommends (for my 2004 Civic) 10,000 mile OCI's with CONVENTIONAL oil !!! The (oil) filter recommendation is every OTHER oil change, i.e., each 20,000 miles!!!

    All the best !!
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    I meant changing the filter somewhere during those 15K miles is probably better than leaving the same one on. But from your post there doesn't seem to be a need to worry :)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well actually if you DO change the filter and top up as per your example; that is actually another reason to take the OCI still LONGER. I do only 15,000 mile OCI's because I am "conservative" :)
  • tamu2002tamu2002 Member Posts: 758
    My engine leaks oil, so I AM topping it off constantly...
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    I use Mobil 1 full synthetic 5w-20 in a 2000 G/M would their be any problems in switching to a synthetic blend?

    Thanks in advance
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    All the newer SL rated oils are pretty good IMO, all flavours including blends and regulars too.
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    I know Conoco phillips oil company makes motorcraft oil. I dont know about honda's oil.

    http://p66conoco76.conocophillips.com/index.htm
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    So with the Castrol oil thing how can you tell the oil you are purchasing is a true synthetic?

    Thanks
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Seems to be ExxonMobil; to of course Honda/Ford etc specifications. :) ExxonMobil also markets their own brand is the red container, ExxonMobil Superflo 5w20. If I had decided to stay with convention oil this particular one would be my choice. They have coupons so under 1 per quart aint bad for an oil that can go 10,000 mile OCI's. :)

    This is also similar to the Mobil "Drive Clean series."
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    Interesting

    Ford Motor Company told me Conoco Phillips.

    Maybe they dont even know!

    lol
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    the only full synthetic ie group 4 oil, is the 0w-30 grade with the statement "Made in Germany" at the back, and sporadically available at AutoZone only. All other grades including 0w-30 oils made by Castrol in the US are group 3 hydrocracked oils.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Castro won in arbitration, the right to muddle the definition of "synthetic".

    So to cut to the quick the old defintion USED to be PAO IV vs III's. There of course are some very highly technical definitions and if you want some good insomnia materials, you might want to do a search on www.chevron.com
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    Received this directly from Conoco Phillips.

    Yes, we manufacture Motorcraft lubricants for Ford Motor Company to their published specifications.


    Brad Armstrong
    Product Specialist
    ConocoPhillips Commercial Lubricants
    1000 S. Pine
    RW 6614
    Ponca City, OK 74602
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    A comment from the peanut gallery: A very fine oil by the way!!!
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    Any of you have experience with Vavoline full synthetic. Good oil bad or stay with mobil1?

    Thanks in advance
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    What weight of oil are we talking about here? I'd rather stick to mobil 1 then valvoline full syn, just my honest own self-opinion.
  • fscaranofscarano Member Posts: 44
    5w-20
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Given your issues with leakage, it might make economic sense to switch to a 5w20 CONVENTIONAL oil, i.e. buy on price.

    If I didn't have leakage issues, I would stay with Mobil One with factory recommended OCI's if one wants to follow that OEM (3/5/7.5k) regime. But I would do the 10,000-15,000 mile OCI with Mobil One 5w20 if it were mine. The conventional 5w20 is a very very robust oil ( and full synthetic also) in spite of doubts and in some cases vilification.
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