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As a thank you to the forum for the great insight it provides, figured I would offer up a post mortem on my Volt lease which completed end of April (MF .0006). I could never quite get all my numbers to match up exactly with GM's calculations during negotiation process but I got close enough and got to a total cost of lease figure that I was comfortable with ($15,882).
Term was 36/10 on a Volt premiere with MSRP $40,525 (residual 50%)
I only got 7% off MSRP in the end but I'm in West Los Angeles where Volts move pretty quickly and don't sit on the lots very long more than a few days.
Also, I got the excess wear and tear which partially explains higher Gross Capitalized Cost.
Hope it helps others with their negotiations
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
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Your sale price of $31K or $30.5K was probably after the $1000 purchase/finance incentive, which goes away when you lease. I've checked with other dealers in the area for the LT with no options in blue and none will go below $32K.
Waiting for the shipment of Volts to come in early next week. With the increase in supply, maybe the dealers will be willing to go below the $32K floor since most dealers will have the same car, and the competitive pricing returns.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
Could I get the MF, residual, and lease cash for both the LT and Premier in central Florida (Orlando)? Thanks!
$4400 lease cash on LT: $4025 on Premier
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
49% for LT 39/10
48% for Premier 39/10
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
When figuring the residual value, should I use MSRP or the negotiated price?
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
The MSRP was $35850, $33701 after discount (their website advertised $32,900 but it seemed like they wouldn't acknowledge that).
Rebate offered was $4900.
$28801 was total cap cost with .00069 MF and 48% residual or $17208.
39 /15k lease
Trying to trade in my 2011 VW CC. They were giving me about $1300 after payoff, but high end of fair trade would've given me up to $2300.
So, long story short, I wanted to get a deal with $0 at signing with payments under $300/month and they just wouldn't get anywhere close. The last offer for $0 down was over $350/month. Scoping out forums, I see lots of people getting sub $300 leases with no cash sign and drive. Now yeah, a number of people are out in California where there are additional state incentives, but those folks are getting low $200s. For example, if the dealer would've come down to $32000 ($900 off their internet price) before the rebate and given me $1800 on my trade after payoff, the Edmunds calculator shows a payment of $291.
Again, any feedback would be appreciated. Was I crazy to expect a sub $300 lease payment here in Florida?
You'd need to knock another $2000 off the cap cost to get the pre-tax payment under $300/mo
How many dealers are you willing to travel to? Get them to compete against each other, you might get a deal that can't be beat.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
That seems very high for an LT lease.
I will say that when I shopped a Volt in SoCal last July the lease prices were very high. By December they had dropped considerably. I was glad I waited.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
This was the second dealer I visited, but the first that I've gotten down to numbers with. The first casually offered $0 cash with my trade in and a payment under $300, but I wouldn't put much stock in that. There are a few more dealers around Orlando I'm going to scope out. If I can't get down around the $300 mark, I'll be driving the VW for a couple more years.
Keep shopping, and expand to Tampa/St. Pete and/or Jacksonville
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Any idea why their info showed 46% vs the 49% Michaell had above? Is it the mileage that was messing with things? This dealership was in Sanford, FL if that helps.
Thanks again to Michaell and everyone on this forum for your help!
36/15 is 48%
39/15 is 46%
Add 2% for 12K
Add 3% for 10K
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
48% is the 39/10 residual for the Premier trim.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
So I'm feeling pretty good about this car and I'm going to attempt to negotiate a lease tomorrow.
Two things that will help me be better prepared:
1. They say there's a $1500 bonus tag incentive if I finance with GM. That means I'd get $1500 on top of the $4400 rebate right? That money is good for leases as well as outright purchases?
2. When I'm presenting blue book values from Edmunds, KBB, and NADA, those fair market/true market values are BEFORE rebate and bonus cash right? I feel like they may try to slip the bonus cash in before the negotiated sale price.
Thanks again!
2. Check the True Market Value carefully, as many times it will reflect the $1000/$1500 PURCHASE bonus. So you need to back that out of the value.
Since the lease is determined by the selling price, just tell the dealer that you just want to talk about that. Forget the bonus tags, trade ins, down payment, monthly payments, etc. Those will all fall into place after the selling price is negotiated.
And, as you discovered, verify all the numbers! It's amazing how many "mistakes" they make....to their benefit.
Good luck!
I checked Edmunds, and while it says incentives are available, when I click the link, nothing shows.
A finance rebate is not going to be applicable to a lease.
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Does anyone know anything about supplier pricing? How do I use it? Up front before negotiating sale price, or after? Or should I just throw this in the trash?
You may be able to beat it with some decent haggling skills.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
Invoice $34,003
KBB Fair Market Range = $31,626-$33,318
Edmunds TMV - $32,953
NADA Guides - $31,542 - $34,503
Only the highest end of NADA gets over invoice. I'm shooting for around $32,500. I assume with these ranges, dealers are making money entirely from holdback and incentives from GM? Is the Volt unusual for regularly selling for significantly less than invoice?
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
1. He said KBB, Edmunds, and NADA guides were just wrong on their pricing or they include manufacturer incentives (4400 rebate + 500CCR). I was under the impression that those incentives are AFTER the negotiated price range per the blue books? Guy kept trying to roll incentives into the price negotiation and I kept saying 'no, we're talking price BEFORE incentives.'
2. He told me a couple of times that 'leases are different' re: price negotiation. I'm sure that's patent B.S. Whether I buy the car or the leasing company buys the car, the dealership makes the sale. Additionally, GM financial probably likes leases because they pocket the $7500 federal rebate minus incentives passed to the customer, and they make money on the MF.
So here's what I was trying for:
$35,455 MSRP
$34,003 Invoice
Bottom end of blue book pricing - $31,542(Edmunds)
I offered $31,554.95 (11% off MSRP) as an opener, and conceded to them that I was hunting for the absolute best pricing. I had hoped for a counter of maybe $33k, followed by another offer from me of $32k, and finally landing somewhere around $32,500 which is over the 'fair market value' of $32,164 per KBB. Dude. Wouldn't. Budge. No counter offer was made at all. He just kept trying to insist that the blue books were wrong and that I needed to be up around invoice pricing.
Any tips, tricks, and general feedback would be appreciated on how to get these dealers to come down into blue book pricing range.
So with your car going for 1K more, you probably are looking at between 32.5 and 33K (depending on where you live).
But if the dealer isn't budging from the invoice price, walk away and find another dealer. Go to the different dealer websites and request a price quote. That way you can get a lot done via phone or email, and maybe play one dealer off of another (assuming it's the same config).
You never know, a dealer could come along and really need another sale to fill the quota, giving you a really sweet deal.
Good luck!
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"1. He said KBB, Edmunds, and NADA guides were just wrong on their pricing or they include manufacturer incentives (4400 rebate + 500CCR). I was under the impression that those incentives are AFTER the negotiated price range per the blue books? Guy kept trying to roll incentives into the price negotiation and I kept saying 'no, we're talking price BEFORE incentives.'
2. He told me a couple of times that 'leases are different' re: price negotiation. I'm sure that's patent B.S. Whether I buy the car or the leasing company buys the car, the dealership makes the sale. Additionally, GM financial probably likes leases because they pocket the $7500 federal rebate minus incentives passed to the customer, and they make money on the MF."
Either the salesperson didn't know what he was talking about or he was just flat out lying (probably the latter). My advice would be to steer clear of that dealership, as he may be an indicator of how that place is run. Try a different dealership. Or better yet, contact all the dealers in your area (or even further if you don't mind traveling a little bit - just have the deal in place first!) that have your car in the configuration you want and see what their best price is. Remember....Selling price! Before rebates! :-)
I suspect that the dealer incentives just aren't very good in my area and that's why no one wants to play ball. Maybe when the 2018s come in the fall, there will be better incentives to move the '17s.
One last big THANK YOU! to you guys for all your help on this forum!
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
Never leased a vehicle before, but I am interested in leasing a 2017 Volt LT, I am in Northern CA, the best deal I can get so far is
$98 month, 36 month 10k/year. $5300 downpay.
was told I will get $1500 rebate from CA state + $500 rebate from PG&E
and actual monthly payment would be around $115
so the total cost for 3 years looks like would be $7440,
Is this a good deal? Dealer refuses to tell me the real "selling price" on the phone, just kept repeating the monthly payment number
PS. I originally wanted a Premier model, but was told the monthly payment would be $280 with similar downpay.
don't know how they came up with that number.
Also how much more for monthly payment if I want to increase it to 15k miles/year? Is there a way to reverse calculating the MF and residual number from the info above?
Residual decreases by 3%, if you go from 10K/yr to 15K/yr. On a $35K MSRP vehicle, that adds about $30/mo. to the lease payment.
If dealers won't answer your questions, find another dealer.
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Do you know the current MF and residual for 12k and 15k annul limit in Northern CA?
Is the MF you give based on a perfect credit score?
The dealer just told me the difference between 10k and 15k in terms of lease payment is $40/month, Shouldn't the lease quote from the dealer show everything like Net Cap Cost, MF, etc?
Yes, the MF we quote is for top tier credit.
If the dealer quote sheets were that transparent, there wouldn't be anyplace for them to hide stuff for extra profit.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere