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Synthetic motor oil

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  • roper2roper2 Member Posts: 61
    I would think it is somewhere near the oil filter ,just a guess.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    Too bad about the coolant leak. I would've been curious to find out their OCI recommendation without the leak. At any rate, it appears the 0-40 is dam good stuff. I'm assuming it'll hold up well in my Corolla (with no coolant leak that I know of) for 12K OCI's. Thanks.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,268
    GM (AC Delco) sells coolant sealant pellets--IIRC, some of the early Northstar engines require the use of them. I don't know if they are compatible with Chrysler coolant, or if there's any hope of them helping, but you might give that a shot.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, I know for a fact that the GM coolant (Dexicool) isn't compatible with MOPAR coolant. As such, I'd be very reluctant to use their stop leak pellets.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • 37453745 Member Posts: 152
    I've read that Barrs Leak Golden Seal Tabs are the same as GM's. Barrs makes GM's tabs. One could assume therefore that they would be compatible with all coolants. I've never tried the stuff though so can't day if it works or not.
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ....the folks in the bobistheoilguy.com forum about M1 0W-40 and extended drain intervals and such. A lot of them aren't nearly as impressed with this oil as many in this forum are. In fact, a lot of them are saying there are much better oils available. They haven't said what they are yet though. One person said the M1 is a good oil, but he wouldn't recommend using it for the extended intervals I'm looking for (12K miles).

    The other thing they're asking is why would I be considering using a 0W-40 in my engine (which calls for 5W-30) when there are superior 5W-30's available. They also haven't said what these are (though one person stated that German Castrol is superior to the M1).

    What's got my attention is how there can be such radically different opinions about M1 0W-40. Somebody is wrong. Either this oil is among the very best you can buy, or it's just another oil. Which is it? And if there are superior oils available in the weight recommended for my engine, why would I want to use an out-of-spec weight?

    I've gone from being content using Havoline dino with 6K OCI's, to wanting to go to M1 0W-40 with 12K OCI's, to now not having a clue what to do. I just want an oil I can slap into my engine that's good for 12K intervals and forget about it. Why does this have to be such a complicated decision? Surely in this day and age of technology there's got to be some kind of oil that will without a doubt be good for 12K.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I've been following your discussions over there as well as a few others, and I have to tell you, I'm very much less than impressed regarding the levels of objectivity of many of the posts. Case in point, you were told via several opinions that you should only be using [something]W-30 per the specs of your engine. Funny, if I had adhered to the same rule on the engine I just had UOAed (which requires 5W-30), I wouldn't have gotten the following comments from Blackstone:

    "No problems showed up in this sample of virgin Mobil 1 - 0W/40 engine oil. The viscosity was strong, reading in the mid-SAE 40W range. This will drop when you start using the oil in your engine (all oils tend to drop a little). The TBN read 12.2, which is a strong reading - 1.0 is too low. The oil additives would be suitable for gasoline engine use. Calcium is a detergent/dispersant additive, while phosphorus and zinc are from a compound called zinc-dithiophosphate and is an anti-wear additive. This oil should do well for your engine."

    I think that your logic regarding an oil that "shears down a little" is just fine, especially considering the above Blackstone "This will drop when you start using the oil in your engine (all oils tend to drop a little)" comment. Said another way, try your oil of choice, have it UOAed at say 7,500 miles and see how it looks. In my case, even though my engine is older (in both miles and technology) AND has a coolant leak, my TBN was still 4.4 after that same distance. That seems to be a pretty robust oil in my book. I'm thinking that your new truck will be far kinder to the oil than my old van.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ...is a '99 Corolla. Some in the Bob site are recommending German Castrol and some are recommending M1 EP, but all seem to be recommending using the 5W-30 that's recommended for my engine. Even with what they said, I still believe the 0W-40 is a dam good oil, but I guess I'm really looking for something I don't have to experiment with. I want something I can just pour and go and know it'll be good for 12K.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Oops! Sorry about that, I had you confused with somebody else. My bad. :blush:

    Given that the age of your Corolla (and probably miles too) is similar to our DGC, I'd say that the Mobil 1 0W-40 is "Probably" good enough for 12,000 miles. That having been said, I would also be highly inclined to have at least one UOA performed to confirm that supposition.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    From what I understand, M1 0W-40 does shear back a bit but then appears to thicken up a little bit later in your OCI. That's why most of the Bitogers are not really impressed with this oil. But both UOA's and VOA's show that this is a very 'competitive' oil. TBN is extremely strong and robust though. GC 0W-30 as it is called is the one oil i would consider buying over any other type of synthetics. An issue that came about recently is about timing chains.... it seems like if you have one, which i do, then shorter oci is the way to go.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The BMW/Castrol oil that came from the factory in both of my BMWs is essentially the same oil as the GC 0W-30. I'm not impressed. The engines of both cars had built up a noticeable amber(ish) colored sludgy film of varnish on the internal engine components by only 7,500 miles. On the 328i I adhered to the BMW 15,000 mile OCI and used the BMW/Castrol oil exclusively. By 45,000 miles (when I turned it in at lease end) that engine was well on its way to being seriously sludged.

    In contrast, I changed the BMW/Castrol oil out of my 530i replacing it with Mobil 1 0W-40 at 7,500 miles, and by 15,000 (when my dealership put the BMW/Castrol back in), the engine was clean again. The same cycle occurred at 22,500 miles (beginnings of the sludge), and again at 30,000 (clean as a whistle from the Mobil 1. Then there's the smell. GC 0W-30 smells to my nose just like the old high paraffin Quaker State oil from the 1970s. Ewwww!

    So, needless to say, if I had to choose between the two oils, I'd go Mobil 1 all of the way.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I picked up about 1.2 mpg for a mostly freeway commute Cobalt stick shift, when I changed from 5-40 to 5-30 (which is the recommended weight).

    Previously Shell has indicated on its Rotella website that you can expect about a 3% change when switching grades (20-30-40-50), so my mileage improvement seems about right.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    Luckily, my service advisor is a true enthusiast-he has an E36 M3, a Z4 3.0si, and a Triumph bike. I provide the Mobil 1 0W-40 and he makes sure that it gets poured in instead of the BMW stuff. The added cost is a small price to pay for peace of mind...
  • bottgersbottgers Member Posts: 2,030
    ....M1 5W-30 EP. I've heard lots of good stuff about this oil, and I want to stick with the weight that's recommended for my engine. It's also guaranteed for 15K miles, so I feel comfortable going 12K with it in my engine.
  • dshahsdshahs Member Posts: 35
    No, you are good to go. Its probably the perfect time to change to synthetic, get rid of the factory oil with all the metal shavings and crud from a new engine and your seals should have been seated properly.
  • dshahsdshahs Member Posts: 35
    A well respected friend and mechanic told me that I should use Mobil 1 rather than Mobil 1 Extended protection, his reasoning being that since the EP version has more additives, which means there is less stock base and decreasing the base oil means you decreases lubricity, thus increasing chances of greater friction due to less base oil. Anyone have any opinions on this? I follow the www.bobistheoilguy.com website and the Mobil 1 UOA's have been pretty crappy with increased iron, lead and copper numbers and Terry from Dyson Analysis hinted that regular Mobil 1 is not all its cracked up to be.
  • dshahsdshahs Member Posts: 35
    M1 5w30EP is what i am using in my lexus and it seems to love this oil. Since you are Bitog'er as I am so you must be aware of the bad UOA's that regular M1 has been associated with recently and i partly blame that on the stricter GF-4 and SM rating that M1 had to meet and thus decreasing their Zn and Phos. thus increasing wear numbers of iron, lead, aluminum and copper(sometimes). i am dissapointed with M1 just as Terry is at bitog. If you use the EP and a mobil 1 filter or even a Purolator Pure 1 then 12,000miles should be a breeze. I am going to run mine for 12,000miles too and get a UOA done but that wont be until next April as i dont drive that much(~8000/yr)
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    I don't follow the forums on bobistheoilguy.com so just out of curiosity... any UOA's on Amsoil or any talk about it on there?
  • dshahsdshahs Member Posts: 35
    Yes, tons of UOA's on Amsoil on Bitog. Most are very good UOA's with some even going up to 15,000 miles on OCI's. The wear numbers are below average and the only oil I have seen that consistently does better is Redline. Both are great oils!!! If you go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and click on the Used Oil Analysis link and do a search for Amsoil, you should get a lot of hits, get a big glass of your favorite beverage, sit back and read away! :surprise:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Given that many supporting members of BITOG are Amsoil dealers, you can bet that there are plenty of discussions about it. That having been said, I've compared any number of UOAs (from any number of sources) and I've yet to see any compelling evidence to suggest that Amsoil is demonstrably better than any of the other premium Synthetic oils (i.e. Mobil 1, German Castrol, Red Line, Royal Purple).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I've got a '06 Civic with 1k miles on it & I plan to do the 1st oil change at about 4k miles...the oil life reads 90% right now. Besides longer periods between oil & filter changes, what are the major benefits over 4k changes of oil & filter with dino oil? Does the increased $ really have any noticable difference?

    The Sandman :confuse:
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,268
    Something you should be aware of on the newer Hondas, is that if you reset the service counter when doing an early oil change, your other services (air filter, transmission fluid change, etc.) will come earlier as well.

    If you want to do additional oil changes, you might consider doing an extra change at the 50% mark, without resetting the light.

    Using a synthetic oil would probably offer no appreciable difference for someone who lives in a warm climate (thus, no really cold, winter start-ups) and plans to change their oil every 4,000 miles.
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    My 06 Titan is somewhat a good candidate of how well mobil1 5w-30 SM is... well for this type of truck anyway... i think it has to the with the condition of the vehicle you're driving. Iron IS the most popular element with a higher number for mobil 1. In fact, most regular dino oils show better if not better numbers that some synthetics that are on the shelves. With that being said, i think UOA's are somewhat helpful (providing only a glimpse of a vehicle's overall condition). The most helpful with UOA's in my opinion is determining whether you have coolant/antifreeze leak or if you're using the oil longer than you should be using.
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    I haven't heard that BMW/Castrol is the same as the so-called GC? Is it essentially the same basestock, chemical make-up, etc?

    Sorry to hear about the residue buildup...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As far as I know, they are the same, of course what I 'know' is all heresay at this point. Maybe I should look around for some VOAs on the two oils and see what they look like from that perspective.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    I had planned to change the oil when it showed between 20% and 30%. Is this the proper thing to do with the break in oil? I guess I should reread that part of the owners manual...it just slips my mind right now.
    Any advice would be appreciated.

    The Sandman :):)
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    Shipo, from what i understand, they may have similar numbers, but they're two completely different blends. The GC has PAO and complex esters. GC is composed of grp IV and V while BMW/castrol is grp III. Both have the BMW LL-01 spec.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "GC is composed of grp IV and V while BMW/castrol is grp III. Both have the BMW LL-01 spec."

    Hmmm, interesting. I'm almost certain I ran across a statement somewhere that indicated that unless an oil was a Group IV, there was no way it would meet the BMW LL-01 spec.

    I think I may look into this a little. I will of course report back if I find anything. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    Any new modern vehicle will be mostly broken in by the time you drive home (usually the first 20 minutes or so) from what i've read and understand. There's a huge debate of what you should do, drive it hard or take it easy to properly seat the rings. I'd use that first 20 minutes to warm up the engine and then rev it up a little and decel. You're oil will contain alot alot of metal shavings during the first 1000 miles. So it would be wise, IMO, to dump that oil and switch to whatever oil (synthetic or regular dino) by that time. I dont have a oil life monitor, so i usually go by miles. Maybe someone else may chime in here.
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    Shipo, I've got my statement from several members at Bitog. Is the full name of the oil you're referring to called BMW/Castrol 0w-30? Please shed some light on this as I would also like to know more and to clarify my understandings :) .

    Highroller
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    You're oil will contain alot alot of metal shavings during the first 1000 miles.

    If there are any metal shavings, wouldn't they either be collected by the filter or settle to the bottom of the oil pan?
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    From what i understand, some will be collected but not all of the huge amount of particles circulating through your engine. Almost all the used oil anaylsis i've seen with a new engine shows a vast amount of copper, iron, silicon, sodium, etc...
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    Shipo, i did some research and with some help from some people from other boards, i believe the oil you had was called BMW High Performance 5w-30 synthetic aka dealer oil, which is most likely also called TXT Softec LL01 or TXT Softec if i'm not mistaken (please verify)? If so, then it's probably a group 3 oil.
    A member found that, "in some countries both are gr.III oils, but in other countries Softec LL01 is gr.IV, or at least mainly gr.IV, and Softec is gr.III. Think the closest equivalent of GC (Formula SLX or SLX Longtec) 0W-30 should be BMW 0W-30 LL01".

    Here's a link to a topic discussion i started at Bitog:
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=001085

    From the link above, there's some UOA's of GC and BMW syn and also a product data sheet on the TXT Softec oil.

    It seems that the dealer oil that was filled during your oil change at the dealership was a grp 3 oil. Adherring to the BMW's 15k OCI, that probably resulted in your varnish/sludge buildup.

    Regards,
    Highroller
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    Your best bet to get rid of all those metal shavings/particles is to dump out the oil and refill with a fresh new batch as quickly as possible. If you've looked into some UOA's of new vehicles, you'd know that it'd take at least several oil changes to get rid of most of those particles floating around in your engine.
  • roper2roper2 Member Posts: 61
    Does anyone have a opinion about how good this oil is? It costs around 1.48 . I,ve been running it and so far the engine is very smooth. thanks
  • highrollerhighroller Member Posts: 351
    I hear it's relatively pretty good...
  • prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    New '06 Honda Pilot 1st Oil Change...Synthetic?Just purchased an '06 Pilot and will do first oil change at 5k as recommended. I am considering synthetic oil when doing first oil change and want to know what the benefits are and any possible negatives. I am planning on driving this Pilot a long, long time. Help! Thanks.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Was given the 5k, 10k & 15k service from the dealer. I do 99% city driving with a 9 mile commute, 18 to and from, up 1 road with multiple stop lights. Would it be a good idea for me to start with synthetic oil at the 20k mark? If I did, could I go up to 7.5k miles between changes?
    My mechanic said I should just stick with the dino oil with my current 4k to 5k change interval. Am a bit confused, as I've heard synthetic is a much better blend for my car? Any help would be appreciated.

    The Sandman :confuse:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    For starters, some of the absolute worst advice I've ever heard regarding the care and feeding of an internal combustion engine has come from "mechanics" (and some of the best as well but I wouldn't bank on that).

    Regarding your oil change interval there is the SWAG method which you are currently using, and then there is the scientific method. Regardless of which oil you ultimately decide to use, were I in your shoes I'd spend the $40 and have your oil analyzed. That having been said, my guess (via the SWAG method) would be that you would have no problem with a 7,500 mile OCI with a full synthetic oil.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • traumertraumer Member Posts: 19
    Benefits are: a little better mileage (1 or 2 mpg), less oil change intervals(7500 to 15,000 miles), engine wont develop sludge, most advanced engine protection you can get, engine runs smoother with it.

    Negatives: price is higher than dino oil.
  • traumertraumer Member Posts: 19
    Thats just his personal opinion and what he prefers because he doesn't want to spend the higher price for synthetic oil. Dino oil and oil change intervals of 4k to 5k are fine ( most people use outdated 3k OCI), but for some people they want something better and are willing to pay for it. Synthetic oil is the best engine protection you can do and the OCI are extended because of that protection you get with synthetic oil. The engine just plain performs better with it.
  • sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    Here's an intersting question about which oil to use. After running synthetic for 15k or so, can one change back to dino...are there any reasons to switch or not to switch? I seem to run around 9k per year on my personal car...give or take.
    Just looking for the best advice I can get for my new '06 Civic, which hopefully I will keep until after I retire, in between 4 and 8 years.
    As usual...thanks all!

    The Sandman :):)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    There is no reason why you cannot change back to conventional oil after using synthetic oil for any period of time.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    Shipo:

    If you owned my Pilot would you go to synthetic on the first oil change.....and who would you have change the oil. Will my dealer do this for me? Thanks for your advice!!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Would I switch a Pilot to synthetic at the first oil change? Yup, and an Accord, and a TL and MiniVan of any make and probably even a Trabant if I was unfortunate enough to own one. :P I suppose for someone like me the better question to ask is, "Is there any car currently sold in the American market that I wouldn't convert to Synthetic oil at the first oil change (assuming that it didn't come that way from the factory like my last two cars did)? Hmmmm, ummmmm, nope, can't think of even a single car that I wouldn't put Synthetic in. :blush:

    Regarding who I would have do the oil changes for me, well, I'm sort of a "do it yourself" kind of guy, so I'm rather inclined to, errr, well, do it myself. Failing that I'd probably buy oil myself and have the dealership do the oil change, while I watched, for at least the duration of the warranty. Beyond that, well, how well do you trust the folks at Sloppy Lube, ummm, I mean Jiffy Boob, errr, oh yeah, Jiffy Lube? Yeah, me too. ;-)

    Over the years there have been two or three times when I wasn't able to do my own and as I use Mobil 1 exclusively, I hunted around until I found a Mobil Service Station that had an old grey bearded mechanic who was the owner and had him do it for me.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • traumertraumer Member Posts: 19
    I purchase my Mobil 1 oil at Wal-Mart and I have the Honda dealer change my oil in my Honda. The dealers price for Mobil 1 is much higher than Wal-Mart's price.
  • prosource1prosource1 Member Posts: 234
    I use a mobil one station in the next town over....i trust them. my 04 pilot never saw a honda dealership or any other garage other than the guy who did my brakes. no need to do anything to a pilot before 110,000 miles
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    "Is there any car currently sold in the American market that I wouldn't convert to Synthetic oil at the first oil change (assuming that it didn't come that way from the factory like my last two cars did)? Hmmmm, ummmmm, nope, can't think of even a single car that I wouldn't put Synthetic in.

    What about the RX8? I understand synthetic is a problem for the rotary engine.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Oops! My bad, you got me on that one. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • done37done37 Member Posts: 64
    Would I switch a Pilot to synthetic at the first oil change? Yup, and an Accord, and a TL and MiniVan of any make and probably even a Trabant if I was unfortunate enough to own one.

    Actually I think a Trabant is a two-stroke engine. Might They make a synthetic two-stroke oil?
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